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Drones, Targeted Killings and the Fifth Amendment

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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 01:38 PM
Original message
Drones, Targeted Killings and the Fifth Amendment
When an American citizen leaves the U.S., they don't give up their constitutional rights. Which is why it's so downright scary that at a hearing yesterday, Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair admitted that the Obama administration reserves the right to order the assassination of Americans abroad who are suspected of involvement in terrorism.

This kind of death-before-due-process is called an "extrajudicial killing." It's also a violation of Americans' Fifth Amendment rights (you know, the "No person shall…be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law" part).

More: http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/drones-targeted-killings-and-fifth-amendment

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

As Noam Chomsky points out in his foreword to Howard Zinn's autobiography ("Howard Zinn," D.D. Joyce), we're being viewed around the world as "the single greatest external threat" to other societies, the "prime rogue state," and a "rogue superpower." The issue of extrajudicial killing of anyone, and more specifically of American citizens, demonstrates that we are not only a threat to other societies, we threaten our own society's freedoms and democracy. No less so, and maybe more so, than when Chomsky wrote these words during the first term of George W. Bush's presidency. The U.S. Constitution has become little more than an instruction manual discarded by the few with the power to tinker with the lives of the many.

I know it seems like the odds are insurmountable. There's a constant internal struggle between what Antonio Gramsci called the pessimism of the intellect and the optimism of the will. Why act, if others submit? Why care, if others are apathetic? Why speak while others stand mute? Because humans are social animals, and the majority wait to be lead. Those of us who act inspire others to do the same. Sacrifice in one leads to sacrifice by the many.

The opposition to the Vietnam War took years to develop, but by the time of the 1968 Tet Offensive it had grown to the point that the Joint Chief's of Staff of the Armed Forces recommended against sending more soldiers to Vietnam because of their concern that it might leave inadequate military resources to deal with growing civil unrest at home. This proved Jefferson's assertion that liberty requires that a government fear its people, while tyranny results when people fear their government. Where are we in this relationship in 2010? Is our democracy flourishing, or eroding?

We all need to oppose illegal, immoral and unethical actions by our government. We can only do that by making the government once again answerable to the people; by reclaiming the sovereignty that is supposed to reside in us; by taking action--what Howard Zinn called "the countless small actions of unknown people."

Again, in Chomsky's words: "What matters is to take part, as best we can, in the small actions of unknown people that can stave off disaster and bring about a better world..."
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, give me a break! It's just a fucking piece of paper! Sheez.
:sarcasm:
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ShockediSay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. withdrawn/covered below re Confederates
Edited on Fri Feb-05-10 06:41 PM by ShockediSay
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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bush and his murdering friends should be on trial. nt
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yes, they should. But...
The extrajudicial killings continue under President Obama.
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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Can't be. Bush and his friends should be on trial. nt
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Glen Greenwald did a piece about this for Salon today/yesterday- here's a LINK to...
...the thread I made about it.

On the assassination of American citizens by our government, by Greenwald of Salon

I linked to yours as well from mine: This is a big issue when a republican is president, even bigger (IMO) when a Democrat is at the helm.

PB
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. The characterization of the Blair's testimony was dishonest to say the least
He didn't claim the right to "assassinate" Americans who are "suspected" of "involvement in terrorism"

Rather he said:

Director of National Intelligence Dennis C. Blair acknowledged Wednesday that government agencies may kill U.S. citizens abroad who are involved in terrorist activities if they are "taking action that threatens Americans."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/03/AR2010020303968.html?hpid=topnews

This was discussed when talking about Americans who join Al-Qaeda.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thanks. I had read the WP article
The issue, for me, is the substitution of policy for due process; the substitution of the opinion of what constitutes a threat to American citizens for a decision regarding guilt or innocence by a judge and a jury of peers.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Did the Confederate soldiers have due process before getting shot?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Were Confederate soldiers "suspected" of being Confederate soldiers?
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I don't think another example of denying due process is an
argument for denying due process, and I don't accept that killing Confederate soldiers is equivalent to killing civilians suspected of being aligned with criminals. (I believe terrorism is a crime). Either we follow our Constitution or we don't.

As the other post points out, we didn't kill Southerners for being suspected of being Confederates.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. Of course the killers claim to be "protecting" the constitution.
And, if our ever trustworthy intelligence agencies identify a citizen as threat it's enough evidence to kill him/her/and anyone else unlucky enough to be in "collateral damage" range.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. K & R nt
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. Important stuff! K&R! If we don't deal with this now the next time a Repug is in the White...
...House it's going to be a repeat of Bush all over again!

PB
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