So I'm seriously entertaining the idea of buying a hybrid, can DUers enlighten me?

[Initech]

The time is coming to sell my current vehicle, so now I am thinking that I want to trade it in for something more... efficient. I'm thinking of going with either a Toyota Prius or a Civic Hybrid. They may be a little more expensive than my current top choice (the 2008 Dodge Avenger) but I figure that buying a Hybrid will save money in the long run.

So what are the pros and cons of owning a Prius or Civic Hybrid? I hear they get great gas mileage (and I drive a lot, so that helps), but I'm getting conflicting reports on things like battery life, warranties, long-term maintenance, that kind of thing. And I know that CA has stopped giving out HOV lane stickers (which kinda sucks), but eh, that doesn't really bother me too much.

[flyingfysh]

1. You can't go wrong with either

but I love my Prius. Look in Consumer Reports for reliability reports. The Prius is just about the best.

[karlrschneider]

2. My DU friend Demotex just got one, he loves it.

you can look for his post or DUmail him...he won't steer you wrong.

[Gold Metal Flake]

3. There are at least five Prius owners at my work.

No complaints have filtered my way. One engineer has a first gen Prius. Another engineer has the first gen Honda hybrid, the one with the rear fender skirts.

I understand that the Prius may soon be equipped with a charger allowing it to be plugged in. I would certainly iunvestigate that. If the battery is fully charged, you will be able to travel farther on electric alone.

[Initech]

5. I'm not planning on buying for at least a year...

So that feature may be ready by the time I'm ready to make a purchase.

[bullwinkle428]

15. I think you're referring to the Honda Insight (rear fender skirts) -

the Insight actually beats the Prius and Civic Hybrids in mpg due to its extremely small size and low weight, but's it's only got two seats, and it's no longer on the market.

Toyota is apparently working on a plug-in Hybrid, I've heard.

[Strelnikov_]

4. Prius, hands down, assuming the current model is as amenable to PHEV conversion

as past model years.

Truly an admirable piece of engineering.

Otherwise, probably a push. IMHO the new Civic is a better looking car. Actually, in this case I would go Honda to punish Toyota for torpedoing their PHEV upgrade capability.

Since you are about to be assaulted with the carping about how a hybrid is not 'cost-effective', I would like to ask you a question.

That question is, are you feeling lucky?

Do you think go-juice is going to increase in price at a modest 10% per annum?

Do you think you could live with the distance the Avenger at 26 mpg will travel on a monthly gas ration of 20 gallons? The Prius at 50 mpg?

Which car do you think will be worth more in four years with $8/gal go-juice? The ICE or the HEV powered that could possibly be updated to a PHEV?

IMHO, purchasing a new car with fuel consumption much less than 40 mpg is a mistake at this juncture. The extra paid for the hybrid is insurance. You will have a vehicle that is better equipped to venture forward in an uncertain energy future.

Me? I drive a VW TDI purchased two years ago. At the time I was 50/50 between the Prius and TDI. The limited availability in Spring 05 of Prius's made the decision for me, as I saw the first wave of the energy storm coming that summer. Today, if I had to do it again, the PHEV possibility would tilt me to the Prius.

I do like having the option to safely stockpile 100 gal. of diesel in my garage, though. Or homebrew my own fuel if things get really tight.

[Initech]

6. Yeah, I'm going to test-drive a Prius tonight.

As I continue to do my research into getting a new car, having something more fuel-efficient makes a lot of sense with the way I drive, which averages somewhere between 150 - 300 miles a week. My gas bills are outrageous, even with my car payed off. I want to cut that number drastically.

The thing is I would like to get something that uses no gas like the Civic NGV or the Volkswagen TDI but there aren't any gas stations around where I live that would meet that criteria.

Is there any truth to the rumor that there is a 90MPG Prius in the works?

[Strelnikov_]

11. Forget NG. The coming NG crash is going to make mitigating oil depletion

look like childs play.

Regarding the TDI's, VW only warrants up to B 5 (5% biodiesel). Once the warranty is up, I will not hesitant to run up to B50 (50%) of quality (ASTM) biodiesel.

Regarding home brew biodiesel/grease/etc. with modern, high-performance diesels like the TDI, caution is advised. Older TDI's (pre PD~2003) and of course the older Mercedes diesels are much more forgiving of these fuels based on my reading of the issue. With a 10 gal/month diesel ration, one could become a little less cautious regarding fuel source.

Regarding the 90 mpg Prius, all I have seen is a few blurbs on minor car/environmental blogs.

Thing is, if this years model is still amenable to PHEV conversion, you can drive the potential off the lot today.

Take This Car And PLUG IT
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jul05/1572

Researchers have shown that battery packs offering an effective electric range of 32 km (20 mi) will yield up to a 50 Percent reduction in petroleum consumption.

A car driven 12,000 mi/yr, 80% daily utilization, is approx. 40 mi./dy., as the article notes. Considering that the Prius gets 50 mpg in HEV mode (urban), assuming a 20 mi. EV range a PHEV Prius average fuel consumption of 100 mpg seems reasonable.

EV range per day could be stretched even further by supplemental charging during the day. For example, recharging at your workplace after a 20 mi. commute would yield a 40 mi. EV range, or a 40 mi. daily commute without liquid fuels.

[bullwinkle428]

16. Consider the Touring Edition Prius - for the extra $800 or so, you get

more sure-footed handling as the result of bigger wheels, wider tires, and a stiffened suspension, assuming you like the Prius to begin with.

[krkaufman]

23. "punish Toyota for torpedoing their PHEV upgrade capability"

What're you talking about? Was Toyota pondering a PHEV upgrade capability at some point in the past, and then abandoned it?

[Strelnikov_]

25. ..

Relates to engineering changes made that prevent 3rd-Party upgraders, like Calcars, from modifying the Prius to a PHEV.

Don't know if this has happened, yet.

[salin]

7. I LOVE my Prius - but if you are buying "up" to save money

unless you drive a lot - and the price of gas keeps going up - it could take more than five years to make up the difference - if you were going to buy a less expensive car.

I was going to buy a comparable priced car - so I let myself think about the savings each fill up (between my ten year old Mazda 626 and the Prius). But at about $14 a week savings - it would take a lot of weeks to make up the difference if I had paid many thousands more for the Prius.

On the other hand - it is a pure joy to drive. In the most recent Consumer Reports annual car issue - Prius earned the "car with highest customer satisfaction" for the fourth year in a row (meaning the percent of Prius owners that said they would definitely buy a Prius again) at a 96% level. Just beating the Corvette.

I was going to buy a Miata - but had started driving my Mother around in her first generation Prius - and got hooked. The next generation electronics just add a real kick to the driving experience.

[Initech]

8. Oh, I drive a lot...

The thing is - in California, you cannot get anywhere without a car, and as I have said in previous posts that my drives throughout the week average somewhere between 150 - 300 miles a week. With gas in California as high as it is, I'm having a hard time justifying the purchase of a regular car. The Prius, with all the options I want, is really only about $800 more than my top choice.

[salin]

10. Then *DO* it!

You will make that up in a year or two. Meanwhile you will enjoy those drives more than ever. Seriously.

Btw, if you drive by the ocean - give a wave for me. I lived in the Bay Area for much of the nineties - and I miss being able to take a short drive to the Ocean and then along the coast as a way to wind down.

If you are tempted - and if you can afford it (and given the price difference between your options - guessing the payments are cool), then I would strongly recommend it. My mother has had two Priuses (she was in an accident and had to replace the first one) and I have one. Her first one was a 2002, replaced with a 2003. Niether of us - nor anyone we know who are Prius drivers have had any "expensive maintenance" problems.

[Initech]

22. Payments aren't that much of a difference.

My top option would be around $333 a month (with navigation, leather seats, ets). But the Prius would be about $350 a month, and I could easily afford both. I'd probably make up the difference in gas anyways.

[BlooInBloo]

9. If I recall correctly, they're not yet at the point where you save money in the long run...

... Which is not to dissuade you - there's of course plenty of value in saving the environment.

[salin]

14. Depends on whether the option is "comparable size" or "comparable cost"

The Prius owners I know "sized down" for the Prius - that is the comparable vehicles being considered (and past owned) were comparable in cost, not size. That is - folks looking at high end Camrys, Mazda 626s, and the like. If the oomparable oost is considered (say the price differntial is from 1,000 to lower cost than the other option) than the 'gas savings' kick in pretty quickly.

On the otherhand if the driving factor is size (Prius is more comparable to the inside size of a Corolla than of a Camry) than what you say is true - one has to drive ALOT and for a good number of years before teh cost savings equal the higher cost of the car.

Only pointing that out as a Prius owner whose other choices were price comparable - and thus the whole "you don't save enough in the long run" is silly - as each fill up is a savings to the comparable car I would have been driving. Which is the same for other Prius drivers that I know.

Then again, I spend time in a small city where there are a lot of Prius drivers - and most are 40+ and probably, like me, could afford it and were looking at the price range rather than the size of the car - making the argument per "savings not meeting the higher cost" moot.

In this thread - I pointed the same thing out to the potential buyer. As if that is a factor in buying a car with a several thousand dollar higher price - than the person ought to reconsider. But if that was not the reason - and alternatives to buy were not drastically different in cost (more than a couple thousand) - than if one is tempted... take the plunge!

[frankenforpres]

12. im buying a civic, not hybrid

i dont think it is worth it for the $$$$

[HCE SuiGeneris]

13. Prius is now 3rd or fourth generation

They have the technology refined and the integrity is sound. I would opt for the Prius. Filled one up at $3.18 a gallon for around $20.00

[lithiumbomb]

17. just get a 2 year old civic or a Yaris

The Hybrids are neat, they do save fuel. However if your intention is to save money in your pocket, a used but efficient car is considerably more cost effective. The Toyota Yaris gets 40 mpg and it's about 12-13k new. A Toyota Prius gets 40-60mpg, but will cost you 22-30k. You might also consider the pending 2008 VW Diesels, which should get 50mpg and meet all the latest very strict diesel regulations.

[bullwinkle428]

18. The Yaris is often brought up in the "Should I buy a Prius" discussion,

and it seems like a bit of a red herring. The Yaris is the totally stripped-down model, and doesn't have nearly the level of luxury (even though that sounds like a strange word to use about a small Toyota)...it's really an apples to oranges comparison. If someone is on a tight budget, absolutely go for the Yaris, but understand that you're getting considerably less, even taking the hybrid powerplant out of the equation.

Good comment regarding the new TDIs from VW, though. Here's a nice review from someone that got to test a new '08 prototype just a few days ago...

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?s=dee165fec7f08231f72421f2e450fffa&t=174644&page=2

[frankenforpres]

19. 2 year old civics arent

2 year old civics arent much cheaper than new civics. i think it is weird, but that is what i have found in looking for a car

[candice]

20. Yes, that is intentional...to get you to buy the newest thing...

[lonestarnot]

21. civic hybrid is expensive.

Have to get used to driving them. They are kind of different. License renewal sucks, but then it sucks on any new car. I'm getting close to 40 mpg around town peddal to the metal sometimes so mileage could be better. Recalled once for some switch under the driver's seat. Probably fixed in 07s. Civic has more power than Prius.

[judaspriestess]

24. we bought our 2007 Prius just this past March

and we are super happy with it. I'm averaging 48-49 mpg. Its drives super nice. I drove a 2005 Cadi STS before this car and I like the Prius better. It makes me feel better on a personal level too. We also got the gap insurance for about $3.50 extra a month on our payment, which includes 3 free oil changes at 5000 miles apart. Toyota has excellent warranties on their cars included. So, I say go for it, they are the wave of the future and make sure you get gap insurance and believe me it shouldn't cost more than five extra dollars a month on your payment. We also got a 10% break on our car insurance for the hybrid plus the tax write off.

[goodhue]

26. Also take a look at the Toyota Camry hybrid, if you can afford

I like the Prius design more than the Civic but I don't think you can go wrong with either.

[breakaleg]

27. I've read that a hybrid costs more in maintenance and ends up costing more than a non-hybrid.

[Initech]

30. That's what I have heard as well.

That's my primary concern against buying a hybrid.

[Beaverhausen]

31. Stories brought to you by GM and Ford

Not true.

[Strelnikov_]

33. I've read that the carbon we are pumping into the atmosphere has a cost

A cost we are passing on to future generations.


Buy a Prius, people carp about how it is not cost effective.

Wonder why when someone buys an Audi, Infiniti, Corvette, etc. etc. we hear no carping about cost effectiveness.

People pay extra for these cars for a reason.

Guess a smaller carbon footprint is not considered an adequate reason to pay a little extra FOR A NEW CAR in the modern consumoeconomy.


Also, what gas price do these 'cost-effectiveness' analysis use? Does anyone really think, based on the way the Reich Oligarchs are maneuvering to get their hands on any 'black gold, Texas tea' they can find that we are NOT in the beginning days of the final liquid fuels smash.


I view the premium paid for a 40mpg+ NEW car as insurance against obsolescence.

[goodhue]

35. simply not true

[Rosemary2205]

28. Corolla

My cousin's gets 38 city and 47 highway. Her average overall is over 40. Not a hybird, more room for humans and stuff than Prius. She bought it when the prius shortage was on and can't be happier.

You'd have to check out what the ratings are though. She is an extremely conservative driver and always gets on the very high end of the actual ratings.

[Drifter]

29. I have a Honda Civic Hybrid ...

I have had it for 3 years. It is the best decision I have ever made.
I can not figure out why anyone would ever consider buying an all gas vehicle again.

Cheers
Drifter

[LynneSin]

32. I think hybrids are great but here's a food pointers to help you decide

Does your daily drive require plenty of start/stop lights or you living somewhere with wide-open driving routinely everyday.

I live in Wilmington, DE - the city that can't fricking time their lights so they all go green at once. Since hybrids recharge while you idle (IE stopped at a light or sign) this type of driving will increase your savings.

But if you live out in the boondocks where you have to drive 20 miles to get to the local store and there's hardly a stoplight/sign around then you're not really going to save any money. Perhaps a car with higher gas mileage would be the better choice.

[kestrel91316]

34. I know LOTS of Prius owners and they all LOVE them!!

No complaints from anybody yet.

Reminds me of the Honda Accord back right before I got mine. GREAT cars.