Thank you Morgan Freeman. In this interview, you've stood up more for our race than anything else...

[newtothegame]

I've ever read.

Mike Wallace: Black history month you find ridiculous. Why?
Morgan Freeman: You’re going to relegate my history to a month?
Mike Wallace: Oh, c’mon.
Morgan Freeman: What do you do with yours? Which month is white history month? Well, c’mon, tell me.
Mike Wallace: I’m Jewish.
Morgan Freeman: OK, which month is Jewish history month?
Mike Wallace: There isn’t one.
Morgan Freeman: Oh, oh. Why not? Do you want one?
Mike Wallace:No.
Morgan Freeman: No, I don’t either. I don’t want a black history month. Black history is American history.
Mike Wallace: How we gonna get rid of racism until…
Morgan Freeman: Stop talking about it. I’m going to stop calling you a white man. And I’m going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace. You know me as Morgan Freeman.

I for one think the whole idea of this "month" is denigrating to me and my entire race. As Mr. Freeman put it above, "You're going to relegate my history to a month?"

Why haven't we relegated Asian History or Native American History to a month? Or Gay History? Asians, Native Americans and Gays have TERRIBLY oppressed histories, yet we haven't stuck their histories in a single month like they're poor babies incapable of celebrating their own heritage. Until you stop coddling my race like everything we do needs a huge celebration or momento (First to do this, first to do that), we will NEVER be a post-race society. Why is only our race treated so demeaningly?

ed for sp

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. Morg is the semblance of cool.

:thumbsup:

[newtothegame]

3. Yeah he is, I Love the guy. n/t

[Kahuna]

60. And sexy....

:smoke:

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

94. tell it to his grand-daughter

Your hero is a scumbag. So many people here are willing to worship personalities....we need less hero-worship in this culture.

[liberation]

102. Zing....

although to be perfectly honest, Mr. Freeman's extremely poor choices regarding his personal life should not affect the validity of his opinion in this matter.

However, if I were black in the USA, I'd also be leery of them WASPs and their penchant for their self hate/projection driven rewriting of history.

[Kahuna]

127. Get over yourself. nt

[liberation]

142. In all fairness...

... not everyone considers a guy that has an affair on his wife of 20+ years with his step grand daughter to be even remotely "sexy." But as usual, for tastes there are colors...

[Kahuna]

146. In all fairness my eye. Why are you stalking me??? There are actual

comments of adoration and hero worship on this thread but you pick mine alone for harrassment??? You lose all credibility when you do that.

[liberation]

165. This is a public forum, and comments are easitly read and available

unless you have an issue with me being able to read, and this being a public forum... I can't for the life of me figure out how can it be remotely be construed as "harassment" my being able to read your post (2 slots above mine) and address it. Good grief.

Although, now it is somewhat clear that your whole post admonishing others to "get over themselves" was an exercise in pure projection.



Cheers. I'll place you in the ignore list so you can be ensured I don't "harass" you.

[Kahuna]

167. Correction! I only admonished YOU to get over yourself because..

your outrage was directed at only one person. Me! WTF is up with that?? And, as you choose me as the object of your poutrage, I will call you out on it, and tell you to not only get over yourself, but you can go cheney yourself too.

[liberation]

172. I don;t think the term "outrage" means what you think it does....

... I can't for the life of me figure out how or why you insist in twisting my post into an expression of "outrage" (never mind "harassment").

All I have said is that at a personal level, some of us do not find a person who is maintaining an affair with their step-grand daughter to have a personality which can be considered even remotely appealing, never mind sexy. If you do, good for you.

Now, I assume you have to have the last word so go for it.


As I said, cheers and have a good day.

[defendandprotect]

194. Wow . . . Really -- !!!! ???? What's that all about?

[wryter2000]

104. I adore that man

I'd buy a ticket to see him read the phone book.

Actually, I remember him from when he was on the soap opera, Another World. He was super cool way back then.

[thereismore]

2. Amazing exchange. nt

[Posteritatis]

4. It hasn't escaped me that they chose the shortest, dullest month of the year too. (nt)

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. Oh, come on.

What's dull about Groundhog Day?

[Posteritatis]

31. It gets old after the first few dozen loops.. (nt)

[Dr. Strange]

65. They?

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmintro1.html

[Caliman73]

154. Hey, I was born in February!

:hi:

I agree with Freeman in regards to the fact that there is no White history month because every month is White history month and when you discuss American History it is typically done from a White Protestant Male perspective. Native Americans do have a month to celebrate all of the diverse cultures which were present on the continent before the Europeans came. It is in November. Asian Pacific Heritage month is in May. Hispanic Heritage month is from September 15 to October 15 (how fucked up is that?).

I do not, and this is just my opinion, think that Ethnic minority groups want special recognition for their contributions to American society. We just want equal recognition. We want acceptance of the fact that the diversity our ancestors brought to this country whether they were here when the White Europeans came, or whether they came later on, are integral parts of the society and help make the country what it is today.

The White people who are afraid of "losing their culture" aren't really afraid of that. You can celebrate your culture without having it be the dominant culture. Just look at how most ethnic minorities do it. Many minority groups live in and celebrate their cultures and also exist in the society as a whole without problems. No, what those White people who claim that American culture and history are threatened are afraid of losing is the special privilege that their status as White males has provided throughout American history. They are afraid of acknowledging the necessary contributions of ethnic minorities because then they have to share the credit for America's success and thus share resources and esteem equally.

[NOLALady]

161. +1000

One of the best posts in this thread.

Happy Birthday.

[emilyg]

160. Happy Valentine's Day to you, too.

[Tansy_Gold]

5. Yeah, like we have Women's History Month

:grr: :grr: :grr:


The problem is, unfortunately, that if we DIDN'T have "special" history months for the unacknowledged non-white, non-male participants, they/we probably wouldn't get any history at all. And in order to get any recognition, we've allowed ourselves to be satisfied with "Women's History Month" or "Black History Month."

Okay, fine. Now we've got that, and it's not enough. It never was "enough," but it was a step in the right direction. Now it's (long past) time to lobby for full integration.

Oh, yeah, and while we're at it, let's start lobbying the school book publishers to STOP USING TEXAS STANDARDS for what they put in their books. Publish HISTORY and let the rightwing nutcases who make up the Texas Bored of Education go fly a kite.



Tansy Gold, person of some historical importance

[Hannah Bell]

6. good for him. "black history is american history," exactly right. from the first landing.

"minority" history is treated in little special sections, & it's most of it a record of shit that was done to minorities, not what they did - like build most of the wealth of the nation.

"i know you as mike wallace" not a representative "white man". yes.

[newtothegame]

14. Amen. n/t

[CTyankee]

7. march is women's history month. I don't really mind. But I get your point and it is well taken.

I too hope there will come a day where everybody's history is part of history all the time...

[newtothegame]

8. But that's Mr. Freeman's point.

That day can be today. We can be the one's who say, "We're no longer going to point out race. In ANY circumstance." An athlete doesn't have to be "the first African-American to...," he can just be "So and so wins..."

Why have we let ourselves get caught up in this obsession with recognizing every accomplishment by race, as if it's SO AMAZING that a black person accomplished something?

[CTyankee]

16. Making up for past willful ignorance of what really happened to prevent black people

and women from entrance into schools, professions, clubs etc is not BAD per se. But I get the point that we are way past the amazement factor. I see nothing wrong with programs in those months that explore the past, the re-writing of history, and the injustice heaped on certain groups a good thing for kids to learn about. Growing up white in the South I was ignorant or at best misinformed about a LOT of history, because it was all written by white males. So there are two sides to this...

[defendandprotect]

193. Agree with our points re "propaganda of white male history" . . .

and we should have a Howard Zinn year where we all get to hear some truth!

I did notice a program with Dr. MLK, Jr. on one of the PBS stations the other night,

but it looked like something I'd seen a good bit of before so I didn't stop to watch.

I doubt they're playing his anti-war speeches!!

[ieoeja]

42. Not pointing out race at all would seem kind of silly.

What's wrong with me pointing out that the author of The Count of Monte Cristo, The Three Musketeers and the rest of the Musketeer cycle was a black French male? It is part of the description.

But I agree it would be better to stop segregating history.

[dana_b]

56. do we say that other French authors are "white, French males"?

why not? it fits the description!

[ieoeja]

100. If I don't include that in the description, would you assume it?

Yes. So that is why we don't usually say it. Now, do we make that assumption because:

a) the vast majority of Frenchmen are white, or
b) we're a bunch of fucking bigots?

The blatantly obvious answer here is (a).

[Moonwalk]

126. Well, to be fair, it is amazing if other races (likely white males) did everything in their power--

--to stand in the way of that person achieving that accomplishment. When Pierre and Madame Curie won the Nobel Prize with her husband, she was forced to sit in the audience while he accepted it. The man was expected to accept for the two of them as if he'd done it all; so even though she'd done the work, the Nobel Prize committee tried to pretend she hadn't.

All I'm saying is that I don't think the amazement factor can always be categorized as: "gosh, he was black and he did it!" like a black person couldn't do it. It's often a matter of: "gosh, those in power tried to keep him from doing it and he did it!"

That said, I agree that if black and women's history is now American history than the "months" have done their job and it's long past time to put them to bed. If they haven't done their job--meaning the history books are still making it seem like the only people who ever did or achieved anything were white men, then we've got a bigger problem than can be solved with "months." This or that history month is an outdated way of solving this problem as it does condescend and patronize. Like patting blacks or women on the head for achievements then "There, we acknowledge your achievements, now go away while we get back to studying the real heroes of history..." Both women and blacks have power enough now to demand that history books and schools stop marginalizing them either in the books or in when the schools teach such history.

[Lasher]

9. Well OK that makes sense to me.

But where do we go from here? I gurantee you, if I were to oppose recognition of Black History Month there would be plenty of folks wondering where I keep my Klan robes.

[newtothegame]

12. See post 8.

I don't think we need to "oppose" Black History Month, we just need to stand up and say hey, enough is enough, we CAN be post-racial if we stop OBSESSING about it so much. We can be the ones to say we won't point out race, in ANY circumstance.

[Lasher]

43. I have felt that way for decades.

And I read post 8 before I hit the trigger. I'm just saying, every African/American would not react positively if I were to share my endorsement of the concept, particularly since I am a caucasian from Appalacia.

[Hannah Bell]

85. I don't think "don't point out race" is exactly it. you can't teach history without

pointing out race.

[janet118]

10. Yeah, March is "women's history month" - insulting n/t

[Moonwalk]

132. I agree. I think April would be a much nicer month for Women's History.

;-)

[FrenchieCat]

11. I think that Black History Month has taught many who wouldn't have learned otherwise,

about history that altough it isn't covered much, happened, and should be taught.

There is a reason why so many of the young ones had no problem supporting and voting for
Barack Obama.

So, although I like Mr. Freeman enough, I find him misinformed on the contributions that
Black History Month has made in schools all over American for the last 20 years or so
that it has been celebrated.

[newtothegame]

13. But Frenchie, read the last paragraph of the OP.

Why haven't we relegated Asian History or Native American History to a month? Or Gay History? Asians, Native Americans and Gays have TERRIBLY oppressed histories, yet we haven't stuck their histories in a single month like they're poor babies incapable of celebrating their own heritage. Until you stop coddling my race like everything we do needs a huge celebration or momento (First to do this, first to do that), we will NEVER be a post-race society. Why is only our race treated so demeaningly?

[bonnieS]

203. we have

there are many posts here that point out all the designated months. Highlighting the achievements of all the groups and the their part in American culture is a good thing. Most groups have faced some struggle, and it is good for children to know about it. They would not get this glimpse into other strands of American culture besides their own at home. Black children as well as white and Asian and Hispanic etc. and boys as well as girls are hopefully learning more about others when they observe Asian, Native American, Hispanic, Jewish Heritage and Women's months, and June is LGBLT month so yes, that is there, too. If we have any leftover months we should designate them also. If would be better to have more, not less.

[1awake]

20. I agree with you FrenchCat,

But I think the goal is to get where Freeman says it should be. While it has served so many people (including myself) to inform and celebrate, eventually it will need to pass as well.

[Hannah Bell]

83. it wasn't the designation of a special month, it was the fact that history related to

slavery, segregation, etc. began to be taught in a different way.

[Ozymanithrax]

15. Before they created "History" months, no one was aware of Black History or..

woman's history. They were not taught. Creating a "Black History Month" helped bring those portions of our history into broader public awareness.

The question as I see it should be, "Have we progressed as a nation to the point where we don't need to put a cultural light on those facets of our history?"

Many text books still do not address history outside of the comfortable white model that has been popular for most of our history.

[CTyankee]

18. Yes, and we do our children a disservice if we don't insist on the truth.

If we can do this without a "history month" then, fine, I'm all for it...

[Ozymanithrax]

29. Electing a Black President did not end racism...

Many text book makers whitewash history, literally. What they don't whitewash they just hide.

Morgan Freeman is famous enough to have a bullypulpit, and the youth of today are far more accepting than those I grew up with. Unless someone is willing to hold textbook makers to a very high standards, the history taught in many sections of the country will be White history.

We don't have a White History Month because it is White History 24/7/365.

[Boojatta]

133. "it is White History 24/7/365"

Well, at least that leaves February 29th for non-white history ;)

[newtothegame]

22. But Native Americans are just as oppressed.

And in fact, their history has been oppressed even LONGER. Actually gay history has been oppressed even longer than THAT. And certainly women's history. Is there some sort of "white guilt" playing here that makes certain topics more worthy of a "month?"

[ecstatic]

54. And it's extensively covered in text books... the wars, massacres, diseases, etc. nt

[fishwax]

62. there's more to Native American history than wars, massacres, and diseases

but not much else that's covered in text books ...

[EFerrari]

33. This is one of the earliest books that addressed black history in the mass media

and here's a trailer of the video.

It rocked our tidy America world a little bit. The only reason I even know about it is that my mom went back to school and it was one of her texts -- assigned by a brilliant young teacher who was also the only black faculty member at De Anza College at the time. (She was lucky.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFH8rtVkiCU



http://www.amazon.com/BLACK-HISTORY-Lost-Stolen-Strayed/dp/6990335351/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265316877&sr=1-2

[Hannah Bell]

84. That's the point: it's not the month, it's the teaching of the history & the way it's taught.

[Fire1]

118. Thank you! Couldn't have said it better myself, Ozyman. n/t

[EFerrari]

17. May is Asian Pacific American Heritage Month.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/asianhistory1.html

November is Native American Heritage Month.
http://nativeamericanheritagemonth.gov/index.html

October is GLBT History Month
http://www.glbthistorymonth.com/glbthistorymonth/2009/?CFID=26710184&CFTOKEN=86154951

And no, we will never be a post-racial society. It's a good thing. :)

[newtothegame]

23. Do schoolchildren even know those months exist though?

We certainly make no effort to make sure they do the way we do with Black History Month.

ed for sp

[EFerrari]

28. I haven't had small children in the house for about 15 years

so I have no idea.

But, I will share this with you. I'm writing a book about growing up in the sixties and realized I couldn't write it without understanding so many things that went right over the head of a seven year old, a ten year old, a thirteen year old in the Civil Rights movement. And at that point, I was very grateful for all of Skip Gates' work to bring black history into the light for popular consumption. I knew little or nothing about the stories he put out there for people even though I lived right through some of them. I'm only 54 but I grew up in a segregated town in the heart of Silicon Valley and didn't even realize it until I was 20.

Freeman is right when he says black history is American history. But, imho, we can't have enough opportunities to shine light on stories that people wouldn't know otherwise. It's like your birthday. For that day, you get a little more attention. I honestly don't think the down side of potentially being relegated to one month outweighs the benefit of having people attend to the topic for one month. But, that's just me.

[joeybee12]

19. I see his point, however, it really should be a month of AWARENESS of

Black History...nothing wrong with highlighting achievements so people can learn a thing or two.

[GoCubsGo]

21. Actually, all of those HAVE been relagated to a month

http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/heritage_month/

Women's History Month is in March.
Asian-Pacific Heritage Month is in May.
Hispanic Heritage Month is in September-October.
Native American Heritage Month is in November.


LGBT Pride month is in June: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Presidential-Proclamation-LGBT-Pride-Month/


That being said, Morgan Freeman IS correct. The history of all these groups is American History.

[newtothegame]

25. See post #23. Do schoolchildren even know those months exist?

We certainly don't make even a fraction of the effort to promote those months.

[GoCubsGo]

34. They do in my school district.

Except for the LGBT month. This is the Buy-bull Belt, after all. And, around here, the ones who complain the loudest about them are the racist white people. But, as I said in my previous post, I agree with what Morgan Freeman said.

[Blue_Tires]

169. some schools do it differently

I used to sub at an elementary school, and while they had Feb. as Black History Month, the other months of the school year celebrated Latino, Irish-, Jewish-, German- Polish- Italian- Americans, and i think one more group (Scots? Greeks??)...Of course this is Virginia, so no GLBT or Arab recognition; but at least they spread it around a bit.

[Chulanowa]

47. Hell, I didn't know we got a month

But I see it's the month where schoolkids are fed that "first Thanksgiving" pap.

Somehow that feels rather like how blacks must feel at getting the shortest month. "Yeah, we'll give you a month, but fuck you too"

[Moonwalk]

136. I want your month. September-October is such a lovely time in the Fall....

:evilgrin:

[CTyankee]

24. Should we get rid of Columbus Day, too? And MLK Day?

Those are national holidays. Maybe we should just have days like St. Patrick's Day (only without getting sh*tfaced in the process).

I seem to recall the storm of controversy several years back when Hispanic people got very upset with Columbus Day because Columbus represented white Europeans' enslavement of native peoples in places like Texas and California. The Italian American associations got really mad...

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. We need to PRESERVE Columbus Day

as a national day of mourning.

A day when we should all sit and consider the sins of empire and racism.

[CTyankee]

30. But here's the point: can you celebrate really positive things about Italians

and Italian culture (and of course, the reasons that Italians came in droves to our country in the 19th and early 20th centuries) without the fact that it was Columbus that kind of got the ball rolling?

The fact is, of course, that Columbus didn't work for Italy. Italy was not a colonizing country because it wasn't a country until the mid 19th century (some people would argue that they're not a real "country" now, but that's another discussion!) and Columbus had to look for work in Spain, which was a colonizer, as was Portugal and other European countries.

[Hannah Bell]

88. and maybe he wasn't even italian. "italy" as such didn't even exist,

but genoa, venice, & other of the city states of the italian peninsula were colonizing ventures (esp. financial colonization).

[CTyankee]

92. Yes, they did, quite true. And the money that was made thru banking in Florence was

instrumental in creating the Italian Renaissance. It was a pinnacle of human invention, both in art and science. One goes along with the other...

[Moonwalk]

139. Can you celebrate really positive things about Italians? Hard, when most Americans--

Think of the Mafia when they think of Italians in American history. I actually think Columbus has been outdone there.

[Caliman73]

159. Wow did you forget the sarcasm thing?

I hope you did otherwise that is a completely bigoted thing to say. Italian Americans have played an integral role in the development of the United States. To relegate the experience of America with people of Italian ancestry to Columbus and the Mafia is just wrong.

[Moonwalk]

163. Too late to edit the original, but here you go--

:sarcasm:

Now if you can edit your previous post, I'd appreciate it. I meant no such thing.

[Caliman73]

199. Too late to edit, but I apologize and retract my previous comment.

Nuance is hard to relay on a message board.

:toast:

[Rebubula]

35. This again...?

Seriously....

[EFerrari]

38. Oh, you bet.

:)

[Chulanowa]

51. Absolutely

Columbus Day is, in my eyes, sort of like having a Hitler Day. Can you just imagine German-Americans telling offended Jews, "Sure he did some nasty things, but he was still a German who accomplished impressive things! Hush up!"

I certainly can't!

Christopher Columbus was monstrous. He managed to win censure from the Catholic Church... And considering what the Church was up to in this period of history, them telling this guy "You go too far!" is saying a hell of a lot!

[dana_b]

58. thank you n/t

[CTyankee]

72. Columbus sailed under the flag of Spain. Spain and Portugal were your real enemies

in the late 15th and early 16th centuries. Look at their colonial empires! Also, look at the northern countries, Belgium, France, the Netherlands.

Italy had no colonies because there was no Italy until the mid 19th century: it was an amalgam of warring city states, republics like Florence, Venice and Genoa, Papal States around Rome, and the kingdom of Naples, which included southern Italy and Sicily.

Remember Columbus sailed under the Spanish flag, though sail he did...I don't excuse him but in the scheme of things, compared to Spain and Portugal, do you think HE was that bad?

[liberation]

103. Let me guess... you are of Italian descent.

Yeah, Spain and Portugal were the "real enemies" lol. talk about wanting to have it both ways.

[CTyankee]

158. I wish I were. But I do confess that I love Italy and go there as often as possible.

I have a deep appreciation for Italian culture.

When it comes to colonial powers I don't think any country can beat Spain and Portugal. They enslaved the whole South American continent. Portugal also managed to colonialize in China, India and Africa and looted them for their "own" art (which they didn't really produce themselves). While Italy didn't just stand by and watch -- they made some money off of the profit taking on their investments there -- they were too busy fighting amongst their own republics, a marquisate, the Papal States and the Naples kingdom to be off enslaving whole land masses. And they created some of the world's greatest art and contributed to the scientific knowledge that led to the Enlightenment.

Any country that can produce a ceiling like the one done by Anibale Carracci's ceiling in the Farnese Palace in Rome, can't be all bad...

[liberation]

171. Huh? For real?

... I guess neither Spain nor Portugal have ever produced anything remotely remarkable in the realm of the art and sciences. Thank goodness the Italians have a couple of colorful ceilings, else they would have to have to answer for the fact that some of the worst native extermination campaigns in South America were carried right after Chile and Argentina had kicked the Spanish crown out and large Italian and German migratory waves had just moved in (of course, it was pure coincidence, see Italians paint wonderful ceilings no?), or that whole colonial adventure they had in Africa, and that Mussolini fellow and that whole axis thingie during WWII...

Oh, I almost forgot. There is that slight issue of the Spanish and Portuguese colonial efforts being driven, and directed in a very (if not the most) significant part, by pressure from the Vatican to expand the holy Roman Catholic Church all over the world. Last I checked the Vatican is located in the very center of Italy and a boatload of popes have been Italians, no? However, I am sure that since they do have what I would consider to be the best looking ceiling in the world, the Sistine Chapel, then they could not possibly have done anything bad. Right? Of course, some people rewriting history would like to pretend the Italian and Northern European (esp. the Dutch) renaissances were fueled by altruistic visions of humankind and paid for with pixie dust... and in no way shape or form they were profiteering handsomely from their financing of the Spanish and Portuguese empires, while the Spaniards and Portuguese ended up living in abject poverty from these colonial excursions. Those horrible Spaniards killing anything that moved, that is why to this day... if you walk through the streets of Quito, Mexico DF, Tegucigalpa, or heck even Lima, it is a very rare occurrence to see anyone with a brown skin walking down the street. While I can't tell you how rare it is to see a pale face among the sea of Indians one is likely to encounter walking down the streets of DC, or NYC even.


Everybody has done some bad crap at some point in their history. However, I have the suspicion that a big chunk of the whole "new age" narrative of the Colonial saga by White Americans seem to be fueled less by an attempt to genuinely amend what it was done in their name, than it seems to be yet another attempt at deflect their responsibility. Since, I must have completely missed the hordes of "native loving" whitey kids going to the reservations in this country and giving their lands(including their house keys) back to the first indian they meet, or at least even pretend to help native Americans who to this days suffer from some of the highest rates of alcoholism, poverty, abuse, and infant mortality (some reservations in the US have infant mortality rates which at points have rivaled certain African countries) in the industrialized world. But putting up is hard, so let's just simply make a couple of movies doing the whole "mea culpa" and voila... instant high moral ground, right there. Now lest chastise those pesky Spaniards and Portuguese, who apparently are the "real" enemy of the Indians... and black people too, even though they managed to abolish slavery way before we even considered doing so. But don't matter, since they don't have nice colorful ceilings they could not possibly be up to any good. So there...

For any American of European descent (esp. WASPs) to chastise Spain or Portugal for their colonial pasts is the epitome of the entitlement to have everything both ways in the USA: continue living in stolen land, while accusing others of having done the same (albeit in a less efficient fashion).

[CTyankee]

174. I am a WASP and I agree with everything you said.

I am sorry you cannot separate great art and other achievements from your historical perspective on European colonialization. I didn't say Spain did nothave great art. One of the most amazing experiences I have ever had was a trip to Northern Spain, esp. Bilbao, a city transformed just about 10 years ago by art (the Guggenheim, a treasure), as well as the Prado and the Reina Sophia Museums in Madrid, and the Picasso Museum in Barcelona. Portugal, I regret to tell you, has practically no really fine art, altho some of their tiles are pretty. But museum after museum in Lisbon and Porto contains stuff they looted from African Ivory carvers and Chinese porcelain makers. I was making a judgment about art.

We have looted stuff right here in liberal New Haven, where I live. Don't even get me started on Yale's keeping of artifacts from Macchu Picchu in response to the government of Peru's demand to have them returned. A Yalie named Hiram Bingham managed a heist of said artifacts back around 1920. They are in Yale's Peabody Museum as we speak. It is a crime against the native people of Peru and makes me purple with anger. It is the same anger I feel at the U.K. keeping the Elgin Marbles that rightly belong to Greece. Yale and the U.K.'s excuse is the same: they and they alone can keep the artifacts safe from destruction which, presumably Peru and Greece cannot. I have to laugh. Caravaggio's "St. Matthew and the Angel" was blown to smithereens when Allied bombers decimated Berlin and the 12th century artwork of Hildegard von Bingen went up in flames when we firebombed Dresden. Hitler had every bridge in Florence, except the Ponte Vecchio, but including the Santa Trinita designed by Michaelangelo, blown up when the German army retreated against the Allied invasion. Some "protection"!

You are right about the Vatican. Its exploitation and cause of destruction and enslavement of native people of color all over the world is massively and rightfully shamed and shameful. Rome and the papacy was in high gear when Carracci and Caravaggio worked there. The Vatican was a major employer of artists of that era, just as in quattrocento Florence the guilds, the Signoria, and the Medici, spent extraordinary sums on the creation of the Duomo's baptistery doors and Brunelleschi's dome and cupola.

I won't get started on the Germans and music, but I think you can see where I am coming from. I am not disagreeing with you on history. A good perspective on this can be found in Simon Schama's "The Power of Art." It's a large book or you can watch the TV series on youtube.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[anonymous171]

67. Wut? Columbus has nothing to do with the American empire. nt

[CTyankee]

71. Well, he DID sail to America under the flag of Spain.

My earlier post pointed out that while Columbus sailed to the West, his Italy had nothing to do with it because there was no Italy. He sailed under the Spanish flag, but the fact is he wanted to and he made sure he did.

Nor did the Italians colonize the Americas because there was NO Italy until the mid 1860s. Columbus sailed from Genoa which was a republic all its own. There were republics, a papal state and a kingdom in what we call Italy now, but there was no country called Italy.

You are absolutely right. Spain and Portugal are the colonizers of South America.

[defendandprotect]

195. Well. . . the murdering, enslaving, stealing -- genocide part . . . yeah!!!

[Moonwalk]

138. In Berkley, CA they don't call it Columbus Day. They call it" Indigenous People's day"--

Seriously.

[druidity33]

44. my 8 year old goes to a progressive school

and they celebrated "Gandhi day" on Columbus Day this past year. Every year the kids vote on nominated individuals to see who they will honor on Columbus Day. They even had a little part in the Parade last year carrying a Gandhi banner. People were like, "WTF?"...

:)

[Bluenorthwest]

32. That last paragraph does not sound like Morgan Freeman

There are months dedicated to various group's histories in America, and I am sure Freeman knows this. I also doubt that he would imply that 'gay history' is taught as part of the inclusive and ongoing course work when it is not spoken of at all. I never heard of even one gay American in school, not one. And yet, we do have June.

[newtothegame]

36. The last paragraph is mine.

And that's my point. Why haven't Asian, Native American or Gay histories been given their own month?

[EFerrari]

39. You have been shown that they have. n/t

[newtothegame]

40. Ok. The month exists. Why the lack of posters. calendar markers, signs, etc..

that we see for Black History Month? Why no special activities for our schoolchildren? These groups have been just as oppressed. But we don't denigrate them with a "special" month.

[EFerrari]

41. Because their "months" haven't been around long enough to get the same

kind of attention.

I do understand what you're saying, I think. But you have to remember, the Civil Rights movement was the older brother to many other smaller efforts. So women, Latinos, Asians, GLBT folk tried to learn from that struggle that came before theirs. The recognition of all those groups came AFTER black people and their allies put their bodies on the line for justice.

What may look to you like black people being singled out and disrespected by being assigned only one month of attention is actually a big success for the Civil Rights movement -- a success that other groups hope to achieve as they get their "days" and "weeks" and "months" where a few people think a little bit about them in particular, feel like they have a better handle on the issue and so enfold them into their idea of what America is.

/oops

[Moonwalk]

164. Maybe because the months are confusing? I mean--

Is Native American month September-October or is it November?
Is Gay month October or June?
And apparently Asian History month is May but then so is Jewish History month! Is this because Jews like Chinese food? (that's a joke there)

Any wonder these months don't get any attention? The only ones everyone seems to know for certain are Black History and (maybe) Women's History (Feb/March)

[EFerrari]

170. Isn't Black History Month the groundbreaker, the oldest among these?

And I don't know about in other places, but in CA, women's history, Latino history and Asian history do get a lot of attention. Hopefully soon to add, Gay history.

I know I've posted to this thread too much but this whole BHM bashing thing cracks me up. As if you can demean a subject by focusing on it for a minute. And, as if you can expect a Hollywood actor to go all Black Power on Mike Wallace.

:)

[Moonwalk]

182. As a Californian, I have to say that I could think of nothing more bitterly hypocritical of my state

--then to actively celebrate gay history month after the fiasco of Prop. 8. It's not that I'm against educating the public on gay history (to the contrary! Nothing would make me happier!), but given that Prop. 8 got passed, in part, by scaring people into thinking that their kids would be taught gay fairytales if gays continued to get married, it'd beyond disingenuous of California to say, "And now we want to study up on all gays have done in history!"

Let California bring back gay marriage. Then it can rightfully celebrate gay history without coming across as trite and insulting, and rather like it's offering a bandaid to someone whose heart you'd just ripped out.

[EFerrari]

184. Well, I think I understand how you feel.

I sat here for two days trying to track down the numbers after that election and I'm only an honorary gay. When I first came to DU, I only wanted to understand our elections and that night and the following night after the Prop H8 vote, I used everything I'd learned to try to figure this out.

First: LA County's elections are filthy and that's where H8 was lost. Election reform activists tried to do a recount and to bring attention to it. It was dirty. We didn't lose in LA county but when we tried to tell the story, whooooooooooosh.

Second: The archbishop in San Francisco outsourced the H8 to the Mormans by enlisting them. He used to be stationed in Utah so he is connected. And then, he tried to outsource the blame to black baptists. And it worked. Political sleight of hand at its dirtiest. In reality, most of the pro votes came from senior dominated precincts, not black precincts. It had nothing to do with black voters at all.

You know who the only mainstream politician was that had the guts to show up and speak at the Great March? Jesse Jackson.

H8 isn't about California voters. It's about our thoroughly corrupted voting systems.

[Moonwalk]

141. Yes, gays do have June. Which would be a lovely month for gay history if it wasn't--

--so friggin' ironic because that's the month most commonly associated with weddings! Just sayin' I mean, talk about condescending and patronizing. "We'll make up for not letting you marry in June by making that your history month...not, you understand, that we'll teach kids anything about gay history during that month, but there ya go!"

I think that sums up America's treatment of gays quite succinctly.

And it does point out the problem with such months. They're tokenism. Token gestures in place of the real thing.

[Echo In Light]

37. K&R

[FLDCVADem]

45. I agree

My son's school doesn't recognize any of the "special" months.

[Chulanowa]

46. Speaking as a Native American...

We don't get a month because most people think we're like unicorns, or perhaps the dodo. Mythical or extinct relics of a bygone age. We don't get a month. We don't even get a day. Our history is regarded as non-existence. Open a high school history book, and it's almost like Genesis 1:1-2, "At first there was nothing, and then there was Columbus!"

Not that I would want a month, either. Black History month always struck me as "Okay, we'll have one month, just one, where we're going to talk about blacks in history. it's going to be the shortest month of the year, and most of it will revolve around blacks' interaction with whites"

[Pacifist Patriot]

48. Actually....

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/presidential-proclamation-national-native-american-heritage-month

You might be pleased to learn that every single American history text I have had access to for my three school children begins the story of American history around 25,000 years ago. There is a great deal about Native Americans in both South and North America as well as how they were grossly mistreated (bit of an understatement there) by Europeans and the United States published in school texts these days.

[Chulanowa]

50. Yeah, I noted the month upthread

And that's interesting. What state are you in? I haven't seen a school history book in years :D

I do remember mention of "there were people here before Europeans" but it was always sort of a thoraway, "Oh yeah, and THET were there, too, but back to the pilgrims..." And the Native societies of Central and South America aren't mentioned until world history - nor are the North American societies such as the Pueblo or Cahokian cultures.

Nice to hear if things have changed. Still, i'm sure there's more garbage than I would like. I'm all... particular and stuff.

[Pacifist Patriot]

52. I'm in Florida

We home educate so I have the ability to be selective with my curricula. However, my nephew attends public school and I've seen his history texts. It's all in there. (Actually, he once came home crying when they were covering Andrew Jackson because of Jackson's Indian policies)

[Ishoutandscream2]

124. In second grade, my son "drew" what president to represent

on president's day, and he drew Jackson. To this day, he still says Jackson is the worst president we have ever had. A hateful, murderous, bigoted man.

[treestar]

121. Not surprised, because of the RW rants about PC

And how it "victimizes" them and forces them to consider the history of other than Euro-Americans!

They had to be complaining about something.

[madmax]

74. Thanks for making your point.

:cry: :hug:

[Pacifist Patriot]

49. I agree with Mr. Freeman but it should be noted...

NATIVE AMERICAN
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/presidential-proclamation-national-native-american-heritage-month

JEWISH AMERICAN
http://www.jewishheritagemonth.gov/

WOMEN
http://www.nwhp.org/

GLBT
http://www.glbthistorymonth.com/glbthistorymonth/2009/?CFID=26713423&CFTOKEN=85056010

ASIAN-PACIFIC
http://asianpacificheritage.gov/

Like I said, I agree with Freeman.

[ecstatic]

53. He makes an interesting point, but the solution isn't ending BHM--at least not yet

Because that's the only time some students will ever be exposed to black history. Until the school books and history lessons are changed to include everyone and not just Christopher Columbus & Co, BHM should continue.

[Ardent15]

55. K and R. We will never overcome racism...

...unless we do away with race as a negative social construct.

[Matariki]

57. "Black history is American history"

hear hear. More than many people understand. Which is part of the problem.

[OhioChick]

59. ..........

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2707483

[fishwax]

61. Yes, Black History is American History, but that doesn't mean that African American History Month is

pointless or bad. It's been around for about 80 years now, though it's certainly grown in popularity in the last few decades, and over that time I think a lot of Americans have learned a lot of history that they wouldn't have learned otherwise. It wasn't that Black History was put in a corner with BHM--rather, before BHM there was basically no "mainstream" attention to African American History at all.

You mention Native American history, gay history, etc., and while these groups actually do have their own history months, those months aren't as widely celebrated as Black History Month is--and I think that's reflected in the fact that, for many, many people, there just isn't much that they know about those histories. It's not as though gay history is taught in schools. Outside of being driven nearly to extinction during the 19th century, I don't think most people know much about Native American history--how many people know about Charles Eastman, the Native physician and activist who helped to found the Boy Scouts; or D'Arcy McNickle and John Joseph Mathews, two outstanding writers, historians, and anthropologists of the 1930s, or Ella Deloria, an important anthropologist who studied with Franz Boaz alongside Margaret Mead. Outside of states like Texas and California (where Latino history is, like Black history, often an important part of the curriculum), how many high school students really know who Cesar Chavez is?

I think it's important that we guard against the tendency to *isolate* African American history to February--that would be a tragedy. But even so, I think the fact that there is a month in which educators are encouraged to emphasize it is not a bad thing and has had a very positive effect overall.

[fujiyama]

63. Black history month relegates the black experience in the US as the other

and while I realize the history of African Americans is unique with ghosts of slavery and Jim Crow still haunting the nation today, it is part of the history as any other group. It should not be viewed as "other". It is integral in every way - just as the history of Native Americans, Irish, Italians, Hispanics, Asians, and other immigrant groups.

It's time to refocus our school curriculum to reflect a changing America - which has allowed a black man to become president. We should celebrate the accomplishment of men, not races. And it's time to incorporate black history with the rest of history. It's part of the time line of this nation like anything else. Giving a month to celebrate the accomplishments of people of one particular race is insulting and in a country with changing demographics, makes little sense actually.

[newtothegame]

68. Wish I could recc this. n/t

[EFerrari]

155. Human relationships are built on both the distinction of self from other

and on identification of self with other. There really is no getting around that. And it isn't a problem until the other is demonized in some way, usually via projection, lol. That's not what BHM does.

[anonymous171]

66. I read that in his voice. nt

[newtothegame]

96. :) Andy Dufrain. n/t

[malaise]

69. He's right

Rec

[Number23]

70. I don't understand anything about this exchange.

This makes no sense at all to me. How is acknowledging black history "coddling?" What is Morgan Freeman talking about??

Truth is, we should be including each and every one of the histories that he mentioned into American history. But that is not done. Morgan sounds like he needs to go rest or something.

Edit: I now understand that it was the OP and not Morgan Freeman that mentioned women's history, Asian history etc.

[EFerrari]

73. It's also not an either or proposition. Just because you have a birthday

doesn't mean I ignore you the rest of the year.

lol

:)

[Number23]

75. Exactly. I think that this is one of the weirdest and worst threads I've seen in a while.

[EFerrari]

76. Well, maybe this is how we get to Carniegie Hall.

When I first came to DU, threads about race seemed to be very rare and very uptight. DU has gown leaps and bound in this direction, imho.

[Number23]

175. E, judging by the number of recs and "right on, Morgan!" posts in this thread

I'm not sure that DU has grown all that much. Or at least grown in the right direction.

[EFerrari]

179. LOL

Well, don't take this part for the whole.

:yoiks:

[Fire1]

120. Amen to that! n/t

[Orsino]

111. He finds it condescending.

I can't tell him how to feel, but I can't see that his attitude is catching on sufficiently to be helpful. Make Black History Month vanish, and less black history will be taught.

[EFerrari]

115. The whole exchange is embarrassing. Neither he nor Wallace

seem to know that other cultures are similarly honored. And Freeman's solution to race in America is not to talk about it. Holy cow.

[Fire1]

125. I expected more from him. n/t

[EFerrari]

129. I don't know anything about him except that he's a great actor. n/t

[Fire1]

134. I mean, as a seemingly intelligent black man of his age,

I expected more. Because of his age, I know he has lived through Jim Crow and even in Hollywood has experienced racism. So, to make a statement like that is really surprising and disappointing.

[EFerrari]

137. His response may have been calibrated to the situation.

There's that. Hollywood was and is still incredibly bigoted. Maybe better now than it used to be but still lags behind most of our ms culture. There's no way he would want to come off as a "black militant" in that interview -- it could cost him work. Maybe that's it.

[Fire1]

140. That makes sense. Hollywood is known for "black balling"

people in the industry. You're probably right.

[EFerrari]

147. People get silently banned from entertainment venues for being "difficult"

You can beat your partner, eat your children and shoot up day and night, but you better not get known as "difficult". :)

[MindandSoul]

77. Morgan Freeman makes a very good point!

Sometime, even an well intentionned idea is stupid and counter productive. I guess Black History Month is one of those!

[EFerrari]

78. How is BHM stupid and counter productive?

[MindandSoul]

112. I never thought of it that way before, but Morgan Freeman's is making a good point

In my opinion at least.

Now, I do believe that BHM has had a positive effect for many years, it has helped and the intention was good.
But now, it may be too little. . .so little in fact that it only emphasize how undervalue Black History has been (and continued to be).

I'd like to hear more opinions from Black Americans. . . But I do understand the point Fremman makes!

[EFerrari]

117. What good point is he making? He's claiming BHM marginalizes

black history by somehow confining it to one month. That's not true. BHM doesn't come with the proviso that you ignore black history the rest of the year!

He's claiming that no one else has a "month". That's not true.

And his solution is to -- ignore race! That won't work.

[defendandprotect]

79. While I completely agree with Morgan Freeman -- especially about us ALL dropping

references to "black" and "white" ---

after all, if you're white really look at your skin next to a white sheet of paper!!


We need to hear more history of the world, however, without the spin -- Howard Zinn history!!

[proteus_lives]

90. "We need to hear more history of the world, however, without the spin -- Howard Zinn history!!"

:rofl:

Without spin? Really?

Zinn had an agenda and spin just like every other author.

[defendandprotect]

177. Actually the Native Americans STOLE this continent from us . . . !! Right?

Let's all pretend we've never heard of the propaganda of white male history!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[proteus_lives]

189. They didn't steal it from the European settlers.

They lost it to them.

Hey, if you're a true believer and can't admit that Zinn is as biased as any other political-historian....shrug.

[defendandprotect]

192. Native Americans weren't attacked ... they could only count up to $24 and LOST the continent---!!

Those poor Native Americans just couldn't keep track of their possessions--!!

:evilgrin:

And I do agree . . . any right winger would see Zinn as "biased" -- !!

Why don't you offer up one of his "biases" here . . . ??

Could be interesting?

Maybe Papal Bulls for enslaving/killing Native Americans or Africans enslaved here?

Segregation, probably didn't ever exist?

Patriarchy obviously only had the female's interest in mind --

And Haiti just fell into our hands --

Also rough that most of OUR oil ended up under Iraq's sand -- !!

Don't forget -- Columbus discovered America and he was a swell guy!


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[proteus_lives]

196. Funny.

It's fun to watch someone rev-up the outrage whenever St. Zinn is questioned.

Take comfort in your orthodoxy.

But here's a hint anyway. It's a good habit to read multiple books on history, then come to your own opinion.

[defendandprotect]

200. "St. Zinn" . .. ?? You could hardly be making yourself clearer . . .

I think you've given us quite a big HINT --

And, of course, most of us -- unlike you -- have barely read anything at all of history!!

:eyes:

and because I know these are your favorites . . .

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :eyes:

[phasma ex machina]

80. Who's history?

In a cosmic ironic coincidence this post interrupts my minutes old decision to relocate Santayana's aphorism to the "comic books" shelf of my library.

The notion of capturing events shaping millions of lives over a period of decades in a few pithy paragraphs, pages, or volumes finally became a parody of itself.

[jobwithout]

81. I don't need a special month.

As a proud black man, I teach my children and grand- children that no matter how much we try to minimize them, there will always be inequities for our race. That may include how people see us and how how they see and value our contribution to the history of our country. However, I also tell them that none of this matters, period!

I was raised by my grandmother in a small town in Alabama and I can assure you that I know the face of active racism and racism by omission but I persevered. I finished high school went to college, grad school and on to my Phd and I did this in part because of the freedoms provided by my country and in part, despite the inequities provided by my country. So I agree with Mr. Freeman, to relegate my heritage to just one month is an insult. We should no more celebrate black history month than we should celebrate "Racist old white person history month." Because both my heritage "Black" and their heritage "Racist old white person" are present every day of the year to both celebrate and mourn, as the case may be.

And pardon me for saying, if you aren't black then you probably don't have enough insight into the issue to formulate an informed opinion.

[EFerrari]

87. You may not have noticed this but there are several minority groups

in this country whose history has been left in obscurity, untaught and uncelebrated. No, you don't have to be black in order to have enough insight to formulate an informed opinion. Just as you don't have to "relegate" black history in order to honor it especially one month a year. By the same logic, we shouldn't celebrate any national holiday because we're a nation the other 364 days, too.

[jobwithout]

91. I respectfully disagree.

Tell me how you know how it feels to be black?

[EFerrari]

109. LOL. For some reason, I had a feeling you'd do that.

I don't know about you, but I did spend six years in grad school and I know better than to mistake an informed opinion for subjective experience. :hi:

[farmout rightarm]

122. A most incisive post. I'm not black but I am gay (and old enough to be a grandfather) so I can

at least appreciate qualitatively if not precisely being on the receiving end of discrimination. Since you
didn't use the term "african american" I wonder if you think it has pejorative overtones as I do. I have no
idea who coined the phrase, I just know that I have absolutely no desire to be labeled "european american"...
I'm just a regular american. It's hard to ask this without appearing to some people as being racist but it's not meant that way at all, it's just a question. :D

[jobwithout]

201. I don't have a problem with African American

I just choose to refer to my self as black. I am not ashamed of it..it does not harm me or make me less of a person. Even though my forefathers were from the African continent, I am not african. I am a black american. For those who prefer to be called african american, I do not mean to offend you nor belittle you in any way. I just choose a different terminology.

[jaysunb]

82. It was a good idea back in the day

but the shelf life is past it's expiration date.

I'm w/ Morgan.I'm just Jason, an American who happens to be Black. If you're giving any consideration to my color, I'm worried about you.

Thanks for posting this. :thumbsup:

[Behind the Aegis]

86. Really?

Gay History -- October
Hispanic History -- April
Native American -- November
Women's History -- March

[voc]

89. Freeman misses the point...

while he may want to be in a post-racial America, it hasn't happened and won't.
The reason? Lack of easy assimilation. Every other group named has assimilated into
the white culture that is the hallmark of America. Until Blacks can(they can't, btw)
Black History Month is necessary or we will revert back to Jim Crow. Can anyone say,
"Negro" on the current Census.lol.

[newtothegame]

95. "Negro" on the current Census...

at the request of African-Americans. Until a whole section of us (and yes, I'm black) chooses to stop being outsiders, and using words like "nigga" and "negro," you're right, we won't be assimilated. It's up to us to make those words disappear, not the handful or racists out there that use them.

[NOLALady]

156. Assimilation

has nothing to do with how an individual chooses to self-identify.

[EFerrari]

168. This thread is interesting. It looks like a lot of people agree with Freeman

that the best way to handle race in America is not to talk about it. Which is a strange way of empowering a historically oppressed segment of the American people.

[Number23]

178. E, you're not surprised by this, are you??

Knowing you, I know you're not. Like me, you're probably just surprised to see so many people openly saying what they're saying. :)

[EFerrari]

180. Not surprised. Americans seem to think that not talking about race

is good manners. That's what Freeman is saying and he said it in a media appearance which may not reflect his actual views.

lol

[fishwax]

190. indeed

"Which is a strange way of empowering a historically oppressed segment of the American people."

Indeed.

[phasma ex machina]

202. I pray to G-d that I never get assimilated into America, the Daughter of Babylon.

[EFerrari]

114. Wait -- what do you mean, every other group named has been assimilated?

Reservations still seem to exist and didn't someone just suggest separate barracks for gay military folk?

[bdamomma]

93. ..................

:thumbsup: for what Morgan Freeman said I totally agree with his sentiments.

[cmf]

97. I agree to a point

I think that relegating it to one month ghettotizes it, and allows people to ignore it the rest of the time. I would like Black history (and Native American history, and Japanese American history, on and on) to be integrated into the story of this country all year long. But not talking about it won't work. Pretending we are "post racial" doesn't make it so.

[BeliQueen]

98. I agree and I disagree

I agree that black history is American history, but I disagree that it shouldn't have a specific place for a focus.

The idea is to institute an awareness of the accomplishments of black Americans in our history and have that awareness integrated into a larger collective mindset.

There's a Latin American History month, and I would love to see each month of the year focused on the historic contributions of an oppressed minority. That would be awesome. I would learn so much.

[serbbral]

99. About Jewish Heritage Month........

I did not want to dispute Mr. Wallace's claim, but I actually heard that there WAS/IS a Jewish Heritage Month, so I googled it and it states that "May" is Jewish Heritage Month. There's a whole website about it and everything.

[newtothegame]

105. True...unfortunately Black History Month is the only one our schools care about though.

Not unfortunate that it's recognized, but unfortunate that the other one's AREN'T.

[EFerrari]

110. So are you a teacher or in one of those schools?

Teachers on this thread have told you that that isn't true at their schools.

[Soylent Brice]

101. K&R

[Vidar]

106. K&R.

[Brewman_Jax]

107. Post racial?

stats and surveys in the 21st century show that we're VERY far from being post racial. :eyes:

[lumberjack_jeff]

108. What should I think about this?

a) Morgan is right, ____ history month creates and maintains artificial distinctions between various groups of americans.
b) Morgan is wrong, ____ history month is vitally important because _____ americans need "coddling" to recognize their underappreciated contribution.

Lose-lose. As a white guy, arguably the only time I should have an opinion on the matter is if we inert "white" or "male" in the blanks above... and we know how that'll turn out.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

113. It was a fine idea at first.

There was a time when black history was not discussed for even a month out of the year. But now that we have Black History Month, it makes much more sense to say, "Why not the whole year?" Why do we need blinders to the most important parts of our history, the history of the oppressed? That's why Zinn's book A People's History of the United States is so important. It needs to be read all year round.

[LynneSin]

116. What's worse - relegated to the shortest month of the year

I agree with Morgan!

[ctaylors6]

123. was originally a week, not month, chosen week of Douglass & Lincoln bdays

http://www.asalh.org/woodsonbiosketch.html
"In 1926, Dr. Woodson initiated the celebration of Negro History Week, which corresponded with the birthdays of Frederick Douglass and Abraham Lincoln. In 1976, this celebration was expanded to include the entire month of
February ..."

[sui generis]

119. it was a necessary cultural step to give focus

where none had been given before. But it is time to move on. We all have rich cultural heritages that should extend far beyond the negative things that define our cultural history. Anyway, in this day and age it's pretty difficult to ascertain "purity" of any kind in a phenotype, making using terms like "black" or "white" (looked at a job app lately?) pretty much voluntary and self-descriptive. 1000 years ago, the French, Spanish, Portugese, German, Swedish, Italian and Russians were thought of in terms of tribe of origin. Add "moors" and "nubians" and "copts" (all African, in archaic terms) to the mix and it all just gets silly.

Race to me means the human race. Everything else is a phenotype. And Freeman is absolutely dead on with suggesting we stop identifying each other by phenotype.

It's as ridiculous as referring to me as a green-eyed man or a blonde man in order to ascertain my cultural proclivities.

[EFerrari]

135. Freeman confuses phenotype with the celebration of a culture.

I'll go with W.E.B. DuBois, who said there would "be no America without the Negro" and who spent many years trying to get the Encyclopedia African funded and published. These are not mutually exclusive ideas.

[Romulox]

128. I don't necessarily agree with Mr. Freeman.

He is "Morgan Freeman", wealthy actor. The other guy is "Mike Wallace", TV personality (I hesitate to say "journalist", as his show spawned the entire tabloid TV genre to my mind.)

But in real life, they don't even take the time to learn your name. They look at you, and they make judgments. And even if they did, "I'm just Steve" doesn't have the same power as "I'm just Morgan Freeman". I'm not sure he gets that...

[Moonwalk]

130. Of course, if we did have a gay, Native American, Asian and Latin American History --

--Months along with black and women--oh, and Jews! and Islamics--that would be eight months out of the year studying diverse American history. Which would be almost the whole school year! :evilgrin: Hmm. I dunno. This idea might have merit. And don't fret, non-oppressed caucasians will still be ever present in the background of all those histories (slave owners, the railways that oppressed Asians, quotas on immigrants, etc.).

Sounds like American history to me! :patriot:

[EFerrari]

131. This has been posted to this thread about six times. We do have those months.

LOL

[Moonwalk]

148. I know we have those months--I should have been more specific--having those months and actually--

--having people come on the television and say, "It's Asian History month and here's a fact about Asian history for you..." while all the schools spend that month studying nothing but Asian history. Make the months work that way, not just as a tip of the hat, and soon the white guys will be clamoring for their own month! B-)

[EFerrari]

149. I think Rush already does that.

lol

:hi:

[BennyD]

143. I quit defining people by groups years ago. I wish our government would do the same!

Morgan Freeman: Stop talking about it. I’m going to stop calling you a white man. And I’m going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace. You know me as Morgan Freeman.


I refuse to give my race on any application for govt. form. I simply don't do it. I'm an AMERICAN nothing else. I'm not a Mexican-American, Caucasian-American, African-American, Native-American, Chinese-American or any other hyphenated American. I'm simply an AMERICAN!

[omega minimo]

144. Why do you refer to African Americans as a different race?

There is one race, the human race. Why don't you know that?

"Until you stop coddling my race like everything we do needs a huge celebration or momento (First to do this, first to do that), we will NEVER be a post-race society. Why is only our race treated so demeaningly? "

[SteveM]

145. Hell, the few times anyone asks about my ethnicity, I just say "Cracker"...

Sure, I've got German, Irish, English and a dab of some Native American in me, but down the line, we are Crackers who cleared out of the Carolinas just before the Civil War (wonder why that was?) and headed for Florida where few knew where you were, and fewer cared who you were.

Man, can you imagine a "Cracker History Month?"

[yurbud]

150. I hate all the ''nice'' names for white and prefer most of the insults

except maybe cracker and honky though the latter makes the person who said it look like JJ Walker from GOOD TIMES, so they hurt themselves more than me.

[SteveM]

153. When my Mom went to D.C. during the War, she was asked about her origins:

"I'm just a Florida Cracker" was her reply. She never considered it an insult, and neither do I. Folks were curious as to why she didn't have a tan, a la tourism stereotypes. Her response: "I wear a hat when I'm out in the sun." Eminently reasonable for a farmer's daughter.

[yurbud]

186. ha!

[yurbud]

187. that explains Cracker Barrel

[EFerrari]

157. I think January was National Pie Month.

:)

[Lyric]

151. Here's an idea--how about "Honoring Our History" Month?

A month dedicated to teaching the parts of history that are often conveniently "left out" of textbooks. Minority race history, GLBT history, Women's history, Labor history, Poverty's history--mistakes we've made, things we've learned, and how our diverse history has made us who we are. It would call attention to revisionism, give teachers a defendable reason to TEACH the unvarnished truth, and allow our young people to learn about, ponder, and then learn FROM the past as it really was--not as the textbooks pretend it was.

And it wouldn't marginalize, patronize, or objectify anyone.

[Christa]

152. K & Highly rec'd nt

[Eric Condon]

162. I think this article says it all

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27933

[brindis_desala]

166. You only feel demeaned because the whole of your history

lies in opposition to the accepted narrative.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

173. Ok then, cancel it. Assuming of course everyone agrees.

[kwassa]

176. You don't understand the difference between "relegate" and "emphasize"

Black history isn't relegated to February, but it is emphasized in February. This is the essential mistake in your OP.

It IS taught all year long, it didn't used to be taught at all.

There is nothing denigrating about this. During this month in my school there are posters throughout the school of famous African-Americans and their achievements. I thought I knew a lot about black history, but there are many posters that are educational to me. This is a good thing.

The history of African-Americans is unique in this country, and that history has been denied for centuries. Perhaps only the Native Americans have suffered as much.

I think you need to re-think the reality of the American consciousness of black history. You may, but most white Americans don't.

[Number23]

181. "The history of African-Americans is unique in this country"

I don't know why this simple truth always seems to be so controversial around here. It absolutely BOGGLES my mind. :rofl:

Black history isn't relegated to February, but it is emphasized in February.

Absolutely. And the OP says he's black, btw.

[kwassa]

197. I know, I know.

and clueless people can come in all the colors of the rainbow.

[EFerrari]

185. I can't believe 90 other people don't get this either.

GREETINGS TO THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES!

IF YOU ARE ASKED TO ATTEND TO BLACK HISTORY FOR ONE MONTH, YOU ARE STILL FREE TO ATTEND TO IT THE REST OF THE YEAR.

DITTO FOR INDEPENDENCE DAY, CHRISTMAS AND VALENTINES DAY. PRESIDENTS DAY, VETERANS DAY AND MEMORIAL DAY.

[kwassa]

198. This thread should get a DUzy

If there is a DUzy category for thread-length cluelessness.

[Jennicut]

183. It should just be more a part of history classes.

My 5 year old daughter loved learning about MLK jr in school (because they had the day off for his birthday). She talking to me a lot about what it means to be respectful of others and it led to a big discussion on slavery and the history of the United States.

[EFerrari]

188. No way. Just like women's history is buried in our schools.

Making this history part of that just means it gets less attention and then your daughter has less access to stories that will shore her up later when she needs them.

[Jennicut]

191. Well, I don't want them to be buried.

I understand your point. My point is that it really should be a huge part of our history and history classes in general, not just one month. But women and minorities and their contributions to our history have been shoved under the rug and given minimal time in history classes.
My daughter is white as are me and my husband. But she already sees she has a black man for a President, someone in MLK jr. whom she admires. Racism is taught early and can twist young minds. My daughter has only one girl in her class who is African-American. She told me the other day that not everyone is nice to that girl because she looks different but my daughter wanted to be her friend. It really is clear that it starts young.