So Tim Tebow's mom was in a country where abortions are illegal....

[LynneSin]

So what doctor in the Phillipines would have suggested she have an abortion?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/29/tim-tebow-super-bowl-ad-m_n_442808.html

Tim Tebow Super Bowl Ad May Be Based On Falsehood

A commercial featuring Tim Tebow and his mother Pam that is likely to air during Super Bowl XLIV may be rife with inaccuracies, according to power lawyer Gloria Allred.

The ad, which is expected to promote an anti-choice message, will be based on the theme "Celebrate Family, Celebrate Life." The Christian conservative group Focus on the Family has paid for the spot. James Dobson, the group's founder, has a history of inflammatory statements and once said that gay marriage will "destroy the earth."

Despite resistance from women's groups, the ad is expected to air during the Super Bowl. It is believed that the commercial will focus on Pam Tebow's 1987 pregnancy, during which time she fell ill in the Philippines. According to reports, doctors recommended that she abort the pregnancy, but she chose to go through with the birth of her son Tim.

<<<snip>>>

Because abortion under any circumstance has been illegal in the Philippines since 1930 and is punishable by a six-year prison term, Allred says she finds it hard to believe that doctors would have recommended the procedure.

____________________________________________

So who recommended an abortion to a woman in a country where abortions are illegal. I would suspect it wasn't any doctor certfied to practice medicine in the Philipines? Just so you know, Tim Tebow and mom - Lying is considered a SIN in the bible. Not only did it make the top 10 by being included in the Ten Commandments, but even JESUS solidified the importants of the 10 Commandments (oddly enough Jesus never talked about any of those other bizarre laws that were in Leviticus - I defy ANYONE to find Jesus himself condemn homosexuality).

[Jim__]

1. I wonder if they would run a superbowl ad of a mom and her child ...

... where the mom previously had an "partial-birth abortion" that saved her reproductive organs so that she could later go on and have children.

If the Tebow's current ad is a lie, it's not really that surprising.

[slackmaster]

2. Has anyone actually seen the ad yet?

The fuss over it seems quite silly to me.

The ad, which is expected to promote an anti-choice message, will be based on the theme "Celebrate Family, Celebrate Life."

I've always been solidly pro-choice, but I don't see how that theme automatically translates to an anti-choice message.

Why are so many people threatened by an ad that nobody has seen yet?

[LynneSin]

7. Because it's being funded by a hate group

Focus on Family has actively campaigned against GLBT rights, not just same-sex marriage but any form of equality whatsoever for the GLBT community. James Dobson, the leader of Focus on Family, is one of those people who thinks you can "Pray away the Gay"

[slackmaster]

10. So the ad is expected to contain an anti-LGBT message?

I hadn't heard about that.

[LynneSin]

13. So it's ok if the KKK wants to run an ad about the importantace of using seatbelts?

That's the way I see it.

And if I'm correct, Adolph Hilter was a vegetarian so I guess that makes him an ok guy?

[slackmaster]

18. KKK is a bona fide, universally recognized hate group that has been successfully prosecuted and sued

For committing violent crimes and otherwise violating peoples' civil rights.

FOTF is a conservative religious organization as far as I can tell. You and I may disagree with them on many issues, but that doesn't put them in the same league as the KKK.

http://www.splcenter.org/

[LynneSin]

24. Sorry, a group that wants to actively take away the rights of a group of citizens

and treat them like 3rd class citizens in this country is a hate group to me. But I guess you're ok with giving airtime to an organization that would like to shove homosexuality back into the closet or even worse, make it a crime.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/James_Dobson#Homosexuality

You're ok with him putting ads and thus promoting HIS organization. How many millions of people will watch the Super Bowl and perhaps visit his website after seeing the ad because "Oh it's just Tim Tebow being all warm and fuzzy with his Mom" mentality. What's wrong with that? Because he's trying to gain support to help his crusade against homosexuality.

There is ALOT wrong with that and honestly, I could care less about the abortion issue other than the fact these seems to be some creative storytelling going on with it.

CBS is allowing a hate group to run an ad during the superbowl.

[Toasterlad]

50. Don't Bother. For Some People, Hate Is A-OK, As Long As It's Not Focused On THEM.

Who cares how many gay people are denied the right to the pursuit of happiness, as long as the jeebuz crowd doesn't have their right to endanger women threatened?

[beam me up scottie]

60. Apparently it's only alarming if it's YOUR rights that are decided by majority rule.

This seemingly harmless ad will set a dangerous precedent, after the SB everyone will say "See? That wasn't so bad, was it?".

Then next year they'll air an add praising "traditional" families.

We're supposed to be content with our lot and wait for liberals to tell us what we should and should not protest, remember? :spank:

[beam me up scottie]

16. No, they're saving that one for next year. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. No, it's an anti-woman message.

[slackmaster]

41. It hasn't been shown yet

How do you know what the message is?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. You think it'll be cartoon bears selling toilet paper?

No, it's an anti-choice commercial.

[slackmaster]

47. I'm willing to bet money that the message will not suggest that abortion should be illegal

Or that women shouldn't have a choice.

[Toasterlad]

51. What We Know For Sure Without Having Seen It Is That It Will Show

a woman who was advised by doctors* to get an abortion for medical reasons who chose not to get one and who beat the odds and lived.

That is not a positive message to send to women whose lives may be threatened by their pregnancies.

*or so they claim.

[slackmaster]

52. It sounds to me like the doctor's advice in her case was wrong

I don't know the details, and like most of us even if I did I'm not qualified to judge the quality of the doctor's diagnosis or the wisdom of her decision.

However, I can understand how Tim Tebow's origin would influence his own personal views, which I have been led to believe are the topic of the spot.

[Toasterlad]

54. The Topic Of the Spot Is FOCUS ON THE FAMILY'S Views, As They Are Paying For the Ad

Given their anti-gay, anti-woman agenda, it is completely fair to reject it out of hand. Anti-choice and anti-gay is literally ALL THEY STAND FOR.

[T Wolf]

12. Because Corporate Bull Shit is allowing this advocacy ad but has always refused ads

with a liberal perspective.

The reich-wing can prattle on about their little issues, but the hypocrisy and double-standards have to be confronted, and eliminated.

By any means necessary.

[slackmaster]

15. Did CBS reject any liberal advocacy ads that were submitted for this Superbowl?

I thought they had historically rejected ALL advocacy ads.

[joeybee12]

17. That's right they did, then all of a sudden they accepted this one

and said their policy had changed...very convenient.

[slackmaster]

20. Maybe they're hurting for money

I'd like to see liberal advocacy ads during the SB.

[beam me up scottie]

21. Right, I'm sure they'll be happy to air the advert for mancrunch.com as well.

I wouldn't hold my breath...

[slackmaster]

25. As I understand it, mancrunch.com is a business selling dating services

Not a political advocacy group.

[beam me up scottie]

26. How about the PETA ad?

Don't tell me, it was too controversial for fans, right?

[slackmaster]

29. What PETA ad are you referring to?

I don't watch a lot of TV or pay much attention to it.

[beam me up scottie]

30. I don't watch much tv either, lived w/o one for years.

http://www.superbowlads.us/2009/01/petaorgs-banned-2009-superbowl-ad.html#comments

Different network, same double standard - and one more reason to kill your tv.

[slackmaster]

33. I can see a network refusing to run that one during prime time because of its erotic content

It's really an apples-to-oranges comparison.

[slackmaster]

34. Asked and answered

I can't imagine that anyone refused to run that for anything other than its partial nudity and eroticism. The message itself is pretty non-controversial.

It's also lame IMO - Saying things like "studies have shown" without backing up the claim is not an effective form of argument.

[joeybee12]

22. Well, then, come up with 2.3 Million and you can...n/t

[fishwax]

39. it's an ad for Focus on the Family, so obviously it's an anti-choice ad, even if the ad itself

never suggests that abortion should be outlawed--just as the Budweiser commercials are all about selling beer even if all they show is dalmatians and Clydesdales.

[slackmaster]

43. If the ad never suggests that abortion should be outlawed...

...then it's not actually a political message, and please explain why the blue fuck would any pro-choice person have a problem with it?

ETA - I think Anheuser-Busch is an evil corporation and a hate group because they advocate and sell bad "beer" that is made in violation of the German beer purity law, but I support their right to do so in the USA and to advertise it as they please.

That's about all I'm going to say about it until I've seen it.

[fishwax]

45. I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed to do it

As for why people have a problem with it, I think it is mainly because of the apparent bias of CBS's rules, having refused ads with progressive messages before. My point was that the ad is clearly selling an anti-choice product (focus on the family), so I think it's a bit silly to pretend that there's nothing anti-choice about it.

[slackmaster]

48. The examples of "progressive" messages that have been submitted for comparison are not valid

Comparing the Tebow spot to an ad for a commercial dating service for gay men, or the eroto-vegetarian message from PETA, is (pardon the metaphor) comparing apples and oranges.

If they had rejected a safe-sex message from Planned Parenthood because one of the services that Planned Parenthood provides is abortion, that would be justification for the outrage.

If the Tebow ad actually suggests that abortion should be illegal, I'll be outraged about it myself. I think CBS would be incredibly stupid to run something like that.

[fishwax]

56. they've also rejected an ad from the United Church of Christ about welcoming gay parishioners

And they rejected a moveon.org ad a few years back as well. (And while I don't know if they've ever refused a Planned Parenthood ad, they did refuse to air ads for condoms back in 2007.)

Again, I think that's why people are upset--because CBS has a history of refusing to air ads from progressive perspectives. The reason they've given in the past is that they simply don't accept issue ads. Apparently that policy has changed, though there's still some ambiguity in their defense of the ad (they say they've changed the policy to accept issue ads, but then on the other hand have said the reason this one is acceptable is because it isn't about the issue). Anyway, I think it's understandable why people would be put off, though, by the fact that a few years after refusing an ad from a religious organization devoted to tolerance, they are now running an ad from a religious organization committed to opposing the rights of gays and women.

[conscious evolution]

49. Its a branding ad

The purpose is to get the FoF name into peoples minds.By placing it in the SB it gives people the impression that they are a mainstream organization worthy of support.

[emilyg]

77. It doesn't translate into an anti-choice message.

[beam me up scottie]

3. But it's okay to lie for Jeebus if you save babies.

Just like it was okay to murder Dr. Tiller...

[Freddie Stubbs]

4. I suppose there were no illegal abortions here before Roe v. Wade. Right?

:shrug:

[beam me up scottie]

5. Abortion was only illegal if you were poor.

Rich women always had freedom of choice.

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. An American in the Phillipines would have been rich by Phillipino standards

[Obamanaut]

44. I think the legality issue was the same, but the availability was different. nt

[slackmaster]

8. My father and his brother were both doctors - my mom has told me all about it

My father practiced in California in the early '60s. My uncle was a psychiatrist in Kansas for several decades.

There were phone numbers that were quietly passed around among women. The person who answered the phone would instruct the woman to go to a nondescript place like a suite in an industrial park, where a D&C or other procedure would be performed by a medical student, a nurse, a veterinarian, or a doctor who was having financial problems.

After the procedure the woman was instructed never to return to the clandestine clinic, and to go to an ER if she had persistent bleeding or pain.

That's how it was done, at least in Kansas and in California, in the Bad Old Days. People who could afford to travel sometimes went to New York, and a few went to Mexico as described in Richard Brautigan's novel "The Abortion".

[mrbarber]

35. Dobson want's a return to the bad old days.....

You see why people have a problem with this now, since his hatred of GLBT folks and his campaigning to deny them rights (his organizations donated to Prop 8) seems to be fine with you?

[slackmaster]

42. I see it as a freedom of speech issue

If CBS wants to offer the service of broadcasting someone's opinion about abortion or anything else, and charges fair market value for that service, and hasn't rejected solely for their political content any messages containing alternative opinions on the same subject for the same event (i.e. this year's Superbowl) the playing field is level as far as I can tell.

The airwaves are public property, and use of them is licensed and regulated. Unless CBS can be shown to have violated the terms of their broadcast license by airing this Superbowl ad that nobody has seen, and that it refused to air one or more Superbowl ads on the same subject that advocate different positions, this issue is a tempest in a teapot.

It's a shame to see so much outrage being spent on something that hasn't happened yet, and that nobody in the public even knows precisely what will look and sound like.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

14. It isn't PROOF of bad faith, but id does make the story highly suspicious. -nt

[Yupster]

28. Hasn't that always been a major argument

that abortions are going to occur just as frequently whether they're legal or not?

Now all the sudden if it was illegal she could't have gotten one?

[marshall]

6. It would have been called a D&C

If the stated diagnosis is correct, the fetus is usually already dead. They were basically telling her that she'd had an imcomplete miscarriage.

[Missy Vixen]

59. If she'd had an incomplete miscarriage

it wouldn't even be a question as to whether or not she would be treated, IMHO.

Hard to believe a MD on the face of the planet would let such a pregnancy continue.

Then again, I'm sure Mrs. Tebow has an answer for that one, too.

As another poster has already said, liar, liar, fundypants on fire.

:eyes:

[farmout rightarm]

65. Well, "psychic surgery" had its start (and probably its most exclusive arena) there.

I don't know what credentials are required to be a 'doctor' in the Philippines...
\

[NightWatcher]

11. Falsehood, my ass, Religious Fundamendalist Lies in Superbowl Ad

I CANNOT WAIT UNTIL TEBOW FLOPS AFTER BEING DRAFTED IN THE 26TH ROUND OF THE DRAFT....

[marmar]

19. Liar, liar, fundie pants on fire.......

nt

[newtothegame]

23. Actually, it's not that crazy to envision. Didn't Planned Parenthood...

just get in trouble for something big like that, protecting a guy who had fathered with an underager or something like that?

[arcadian]

27. She lies!

[emilyg]

79. I don't think so.

[pampango]

31. I was there in the early 1970's (Peace Corps). There were doctors who performed abortions (always

off the record). I was not sure whether the government just winked at abortions provided to foreigners or if these doctors had to bribe someone somewhere along the way in order to do this and keep their medical license, but corruption in the government there back then was pretty endemic.

Similarly divorce was (and still is) illegal there because of the influence of the Catholic Church, but you can essentially buy a divorce (an annulment in the Church's eyes). You can pass laws against abortion and divorce but that doesn't keep them from happening.

[Obamanaut]

53. This will confuse some folks with facts. In the eyes of many, illegal

means either not available or never happens.

[emilyg]

78. Thank you. This will fall

on deaf ears on DU.

[Blue_Tires]

32. k+r

CBS hypocrisy

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

36. I love news articles that include "may" in the title. It gives off such confidence.

[Courtesy Flush]

37. They added an update...

UPDATE: Reader MS sends a 2005 New York Times article that includes an estimate that 70% of unwanted pregnancies in the Philippines end with an abortion, a point which would considerably undermine Allred's contention.

[Obamanaut]

40. Illegal =/= not available. This earlier DU thread has multiple

posts giving rates of abortions in the PI, among other interesting tidbits.

It talks about even if there were no abortion services available (but there were) Ms Tebow could have quite easily flown somewhere else.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7608225

There are several more on the same topic, also with information supportive to her story - with links.

[Toasterlad]

55. The OP Is Not Questioning the Availability

The OP is saying that abortion was illegal under any circumstances in the Phillipines when Tebow's mother was pregnant with him, so it's extremely unlikely that any doctor would have advised her to get one. As such, she's almost certainly a liar and a fraud.

[Obamanaut]

57. As attested to in this earlier thread, there were in fact abortions

performed in the PI, even though unlawful. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7608225

There are several posts with statistics, percentages, etc.

If they were done despite unlawfulness, it follows that doctors and midwives did in fact make recommendations for them.

"May" be lying does not inspire confidence in the accuracy of the story, especially in the light of the actual facts.

[Toasterlad]

61. Women Have Never Needed a Doctor To Tell Them There Are Ways To Get Rid of Unwanted Babies

Find me the statistics for how many abortions were recommended by doctors because the mother's life is in jeopardy, and you'll have a case for cheering this hate group's ad.

[Obamanaut]

63. No one is cheering anything here. This OP, and others as well,

insist that Ms Tebow lied, and use as their argument that because abortions were/are unlawful in the PI, she must indeed have lied.

The real facts that the Tebow haters ignore are:

Abortions were available. Pregnancies in the PI were aborted. In order for doctors /midwives to perform same, they must have been recommended by them. Even if abortions were not available, one could have well been suggested, and Ms Tebow could well have flown someplace else where they were. She obviously did not, because little TIm is among us, alive and well.

It appears that the Tebow hates want to hang onto this like a bulldog chomping on a shoe, in spite of all the evidence that they really have no case.

Let go the shoe, Francis.

[Toasterlad]

64. That Is Not the Argument. The Argument Is That It's Unlikely a Doctor Would Have Recommended

an illegal procedure. And until the doctor who provided this recommendation is identified, the argument is more than valid. Your belief that no one can get an abortion unless a doctor or nurse recommends an abortionist would be great, if it was even the tiniest bit true. You might want to take a look at the hundreds of years worth of abortions by persons who have not been recommended by doctors before you try to prop up Mrs. Tebow's fanatical religious screed.

Produce the doctor, then we'll believe you.

Your move, Francis.

[Obamanaut]

68. Here

<snip>In countries like the Philippines, where induced abortion is against the law,3* many women nevertheless seek an abortion—despite conditions that may put their health at risk—rather than give birth to children they cannot care for or do not want. A study using an indirect methodology estimated that in 1994, there were 400,000 induced abortions in the country and 80,000 women hospitalized for complications of induced abortion.4 The Department of Health of the Philippines reported that 12% of all maternal deaths in 1994 were the result of illegal abortion.5

Studies from the 1970s onward have shown that despite the law's severity, abortion appears to be widely practiced.6 Evidence from the mid-1990s indicates that Filipino women of all social classes and backgrounds are having induced abortions.7 They do so under varying circumstances, ranging from safe medical procedures performed for better-off women by trained personnel to procedures in extremely unsafe conditions for poor women who cannot afford to pay for a surgical abortion. The evidence of a survey of health professionals in the mid-1990s suggests that about one-third of women seeking an abortion obtain it from a doctor or nurse, but a high proportion of women consult traditional practitioners or attempt to induce the abortion themselves.8

<more at link> http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3114005.html

From the excerpt above"...The evidence of a survey of health professionals in the mid-1990s suggests that about one-third of women seeking an abortion obtain it from a doctor or nurse,..."

Neat, huh?

[Toasterlad]

70. So Where Is The Evidence That Tebow's Doctor Recommended the Abortion?

Bascially, you're saying that abortions happen in the Phillipines, which I am not disputing. I am not even disputing that doctors or nurses perform abortions (but I'd want to know the circumstances before I'll concede this supports your argument. A doctor's willingness to perform an abortion does not translate into his willingness to RECOMMEND one. How many of those doctor-performed abortions were performed because the doctor recommended it as necessary to ensure the health of the mother? And how many did the woman initiate just because she didn't want a baby?)

What I want to know is, did doctors in the Phillipines recommend illegal procedures to their patients, and, what is the name of the doctor who recommended one for Tebow's mother?

Give me the doctor's name, and it will, indeed, be neat.

[Obamanaut]

72. Give it a rest. Regardless of what people may say, raccoon shit

is not blue, the sky did not fall on chicken little, and you can shit in one hand and put your wants in the other and watch to see which is filled first.

Welcome to the ignore list. I suggest you do the same for me. I am the doctor recommending that procedure to you. It is not illegal. People do it all the time.

[Toasterlad]

76. I Don't Do Ignore.

Enjoy believing everything the religious right tells you.

[hack89]

66. Doctor performed abortions were (and are) common in the Philippines

In countries like the Philippines, where induced abortion is against the law,3* many women nevertheless seek an abortion—despite conditions that may put their health at risk—rather than give birth to children they cannot care for or do not want. A study using an indirect methodology estimated that in 1994, there were 400,000 induced abortions in the country and 80,000 women hospitalized for complications of induced abortion.4 The Department of Health of the Philippines reported that 12% of all maternal deaths in 1994 were the result of illegal abortion.5

Studies from the 1970s onward have shown that despite the law's severity, abortion appears to be widely practiced.6 Evidence from the mid-1990s indicates that Filipino women of all social classes and backgrounds are having induced abortions.7 They do so under varying circumstances, ranging from safe medical procedures performed for better-off women by trained personnel to procedures in extremely unsafe conditions for poor women who cannot afford to pay for a surgical abortion. The evidence of a survey of health professionals in the mid-1990s suggests that about one-third of women seeking an abortion obtain it from a doctor or nurse, but a high proportion of women consult traditional practitioners or attempt to induce the abortion themselves.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3114005.html

[Toasterlad]

71. Yes, I've Seen This.

And how are those abortions arranged? Does the doctor say, "Hey, you need an abortion. Let's take care of that right now!" Given that it's illegal, I'd say it's more likely to be considerably more "off the record". In that, I doubt doctors were routinely recommending abortions to their patients. Unless "illegal" means something different in the Phillipines than it does here.

Get me the name of the doctor who recommended Tebow's abortion.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pampango]

74. Actually, "illegal" does mean something different in the Philippines. If you've ever been pulled

over for a traffic violation there, you know that's true. Back in the 1970's, not sure about the 1980's when Tebow's mother was there, foreigners could get away with and had access to things that Filipinos couldn't and didn't.

I have no idea whether his mother is telling the truth or not, but it is not implausible by any means. And I don't thing that outing a doctor that provided (perhaps still does provide) abortions there (where they are still illegal) is exactly the tactic we want to employ.

[Toasterlad]

75. I Didn't Drag the Doctor Into It: Focus On the Family Did.

If they're going to endanger women's lives on an international level, they should at least be able to prove what they're saying.

[tuckessee]

58. Pretty lame attempt. Is that the best they have?

Many doctors in countries where abortion is illegal would recommend an abortion to a foreigner in whose home country abortion is legal if the woman's life was in danger.

Mrs. Tebow was not an immigrant to the Philippines. She could've hopped on the next plane to Honolulu to have the procedure done and certainly the doctor was aware of that.

[Toasterlad]

62. Then Let's Get the Doctor's Name, If It's No Big Deal For Him to Recommend An Illegal Procedure.

I'd very much like to know WHO recommended Tebow get this abortion. I'll bet that information won't be shared on this uplifting ad encouraging women to ignore medical advice and have babies even if it might kill them.

[hack89]

81. Sure - why not fuck up an innocent bystander's life to make a point? nt

[Toasterlad]

82. If He's Breaking the Law, He's Not Innocent

Hang on a second, and I'll go get Elmo again.

[hack89]

83. You really do have the entire world divided into good and evil, don't you?

you are a remarkable combination of certainty, arrogance and mean spiritness.

[Toasterlad]

84. And Yet I Haven't Tried To Pass a Single Law Restricting Anyone's Rights

I guess only gay people can be certain, arrogant, and mean spirited in your privileged world. Everyone else is simply a victim of the gay agenda, like poor Tim Tebow and his mother, who both believe I deserve no rights under the law.

[hack89]

85. Doesn't mean you are a good person

simply means you are powerless - I suspect a world where you could make the rules would be just as unpleasant as anything Mrs Tebow could imagine.

[Toasterlad]

86. Well, Lucky For You Privileged Straight People, I'll Never Get the Chance.

Is it fun to kick people when they're down, or do you just want to stop me from getting too uppity?

[hack89]

87. You always have the chance to be a decent person

This is the internet - I can't do anything to you. Nor would I really care about you one way or the other. Your sexual orientation is irrelevant - it does not give you license to be a jerk. I find your attempt to play the poor victim laughable

[Toasterlad]

88. You're Absolutely Right. What Reason Would a Gay Person Have to Be Angry With Christians?

Did you tell the blacks to settle down in the 50's, too, or was that your dad?

I'm sure you think you're ten times nicer than I could ever be, but I'm also sure that you're as empathetic as fucking rock. But you go right on playing apologist for the religious right. People like you got them where they are today.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Toasterlad]

90. Yes, I'm Just As Bad As the Religious Right

That's why I donated money to stop them from getting married, and wrote my Congressman to tell him to pass laws to discriminate against religion, and signed petitions to remove christian teachers and scout leaders, and spread lies and half-truths in order to prevent christians from becoming accepted by society.

Oh, wait. I haven't done any of those things. But I guess I'm still the same as them, because you don't get my disdain for the Tebows and their religious fanaticism.

Yeah, *I* missed the point.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Toasterlad]

92. Yep. Just Like the Blacks Did With the KKK.

We should definitely embrace the people who hate us. If we don't, we're no better than they are. Who cares if they'll stab us in the back mid-hug?

Funny how you're only holding ME to these standards. I guess Tebow's brand of hate is okay, since he's not gay.

[Toasterlad]

93. BTW, Sorry For Questioning You. I Should Know My Place.

According to you, I have no right to be bitter that christians like Tebow are actively working to keep me a second-class citizen, even if I'm not trying to do the same to them in return. It's not enough that I don't take action against them, I can't criticize them either. Gay people have to be held to a HIGHER standard, because we're not quite real people. I get you now.

[hack89]

67. Abortions were (and are) common in the Philippines

In countries like the Philippines, where induced abortion is against the law,3* many women nevertheless seek an abortion—despite conditions that may put their health at risk—rather than give birth to children they cannot care for or do not want. A study using an indirect methodology estimated that in 1994, there were 400,000 induced abortions in the country and 80,000 women hospitalized for complications of induced abortion.4 The Department of Health of the Philippines reported that 12% of all maternal deaths in 1994 were the result of illegal abortion.5

Studies from the 1970s onward have shown that despite the law's severity, abortion appears to be widely practiced.6 Evidence from the mid-1990s indicates that Filipino women of all social classes and backgrounds are having induced abortions.7 They do so under varying circumstances, ranging from safe medical procedures performed for better-off women by trained personnel to procedures in extremely unsafe conditions for poor women who cannot afford to pay for a surgical abortion. The evidence of a survey of health professionals in the mid-1990s suggests that about one-third of women seeking an abortion obtain it from a doctor or nurse, but a high proportion of women consult traditional practitioners or attempt to induce the abortion themselves.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3114005.html

[EFerrari]

69. Very nice catch!

[JonLP24]

80. Can't find the doctor's name

I wasn't aware of any circumstance but if all this is true it is likely they would recommend if her life was in danger.

Just before her pregnancy, Pam fell into a coma after contracting amoebic dysentery, a bacteria transmitted through contaminated drinking water. During her recovery, she received a series of strong medications. And even though she discontinued the regimen when she discovered the pregnancy, doctors told Pam the fetus had been damaged.

Doctors later told Pam that her placenta had detached from the uterine wall, a condition known as placental abruption, which can deprive the fetus of oxygen and nutrients. Doctors expected a stillbirth, Pam said, and they encouraged her to terminate the pregnancy.

"They thought I should have an abortion to save my life from the beginning all the way through the seventh month," she recalled.
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20071007/NEWS/710060317?p=2&tc=pg