Haitian 'orphans' taken by missionaries reunited with parents

[Bluebear]

Missionaries weeping from jail cell.

Some of the 33 children that a group of American Baptists tried to take out of Haiti without papers were reunited on Tuesday with their parents.

"The parents now are coming to the village to reclaim their children. We already hear that many are saying that we (they) have parents," " said Heather Paul, the chief executive of the US branch of SOS Children's Villages International, an Austrian charity which runs a Port-au-Prince orphanage where the children are staying.

The 10 Americans, most of them members of two Baptist churches in Idaho, were arrested while trying to take the children into the Dominican Republic. They are still being questioned by the Haitian authorities

They face possible charges of criminal conspiracy, kidnapping minors and child trafficking, but may have to be tried in America as the Haitian justice system has been crippled by last month's earthquake.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/haiti/7141791/Haitian-orphans-taken-by-missionaries-reunited-with-parents.html

[rcrush]

1. Go ahead and keep them

No one here is gonna miss the "Missionaries"

[Maru Kitteh]

12. That's not fair!

To the Haitians, that is. Every meal those people are fed in a Haitian jail could be fed to someone of far greater worth and need.

[Soylent Brice]

90. agreed. and that picture is hilarious.

[Cronus Protagonist]

92. +1

:fistbump: :applause:

[Sanity Claws]

2. These kids were stolen from their parents?

OMG. How dare these people claim to be working for God. A lightning bolt should come down and fry them.

[marshall]

4. 21 of the 33 were allegedly relinquished

Which is the norm for adoptions of this type. I don't know about the other twelve--maybe this is their parents stepping up to get them. But perhaps with the publicity (and post earthquake) those who relinquished their children have changed their minds.

[JI7]

5. i don't think it's legal to take kids without any process and paper work even if

the parent said it was ok.

[marshall]

65. Yes, that is definitely a huge violation of the law

These ten folks from Idaho claim they were taking the children to a make-shift orphanage they set up in a hotel across the border in the Dominican Republic. Assuming that is true, they were extremely ill-advised to take the children across an international border. Surely there were hotels available elsewhere in unaffected regions of Haiti. They might have still gotten into trouble for taking children from an official orphanage, but it wouldn't be anywhere near the trouble they are in after trying to take them into another country.

Also these children would not have been allowed to enter the United States without documentation. Even if they were somehow smuggled into the country they would not be able to be legally adopted or get an immigration visa. They would have to go back to Haiti for their paperwork, or if their paperwork can't be found because of the earthquake then Haiti will have to make some provision to provide other documentation.

Of course giving the Idaho clan no benefit of the doubt whatsoever, they could have been planning to forge documentation and pass these children off as citizens of the Dominican Republic. But the adoption laws of that country are much different, and much stricter, than those of Haiti. Adopting parents must reside in country for 90 days. In 2008 only 18 children were adopted from the Dominican Republic, whereas 301 were adopted in the same year from Haiti (by US citizens).

I'm not really sure what these people's plan was, but it doesn't seem to have been very well thought out.

[scarletwoman]

22. This wasn't "adoption", this was KIDNAPPING.

These idiot fuckwads deserve to rot. Real adoptions require paperwork and stringent backround checks. These assholes just wanted to grab up some kids and haul them away.

[malaise]

43. That simple

I'd throw away the keys

[scarletwoman]

76. Indeed. Yes, it's that simple.

However, since I don't particularly want Haiti to have to keep these assholes in room and board, I'm all for putting them all in a row boat with a compass and a map.

Let them row their way back to Idaho.

[malaise]

7. Their god is money

They were renting an entire hotel in DR (the so called orphanage) so I guess they were really planning on selling these kids or their organs for big bucks. I hope they rot in jail.

[JI7]

3. if they wanted to help the kids they would have set up a center

in the country to provide food, shelter etc .

i don't think they had any good intentions in taking the kids.

[Bobbieo]

9. Poor planning and strategy, at best

[Canuckistanian]

6. Thank God. Saved from a life of Hell

Weep on, "missionaries".

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. I love that picture.

[Canuckistanian]

10. As do I

Probably the first time they've had to experience reality.

[inthebrain]

11. The parents willingly gave the missionaries these children

[JI7]

13. so why didn't they follow the proper procedures for adoption ?

[inthebrain]

29. AS UNICEF described it, the proper channels takes three years.

That's AFTER the parents having gone through the legal channels are cleared to adopt. Haiti right now is facing conditions that no human should ever be subjected to. Much less a child.

UNICEF has also stated that they are waiting for the process to be expidited but before they even BEGIN talking about what to do it's going to take six months. These parents who gave up their kids love their kids. They did so hoping those kids would have a better life.

I think the parents deserve credit as do the missionaries for stepping up where government has proven impotent and reluctant to act.

[Pithlet]

34. Who cares if it takes 100 years!

Kidnapping is a no no. And that's what it's called if you take children out of the country without paperwork. Haiti is not open season for anyone to just wander in and take children. I'm sure UNICEF would agree.

[inthebrain]

66. These kids were not kidnapped

Again, you are dead wrong and you can not dance around that fact.

[Pithlet]

70. You cannot dance around the fact that they were up to no good.

No legitimate group worth their salt would attempt such a thing without going through proper channels. None. The fact they didn't have papers means they were up to no good. They got caught. Any legitimate charitable group would never attempt such a thing! It's really that simple!

[Bluebear]

81. :crickets:

[Caretha]

95. You are so wrong

*see above picture*

Those idiots aren't in jail because they were doing things the right way. Oh wait....right way - fuck that you say? Why don't you send them some money for their legal fund if you are so hell bent on verbally defending them.

As the old saying goes - put your money where your mouth is.

[JI7]

45. because that would cause more harm to children who would be kidnapped and sold to slavery,

prostitution or other horrible things.

[spanone]

72. i think you are entirely wrong. by your thinking there is nothing to prevent trafficking

i doubt the government is reluctant, i imagine it's decimated...still no reason to break the law

[Pithlet]

14. No, they didn't.

These people are criminals. They deserve to be behind those bars.

[inthebrain]

19. Yes they did

That was reported on CNN at least 100 times since yesterday.

[Pithlet]

23. It isn't willingly if it's under false pretenses.

These people are crooks.

[rcrush]

30. "crooks" would be a lite term

No paperwork for kids? Could be selling them into sex slavery for all anyone knows.

[ljm2002]

74. Not only that, it's under duress...

...these people are under such hardship and stress, and then for someone to show up and say "Hey, we'll be happy to take your kid there, and give him / her a better (read: more $$) life!". It is not surprising that parents might do that very thing, under such brutal hardship as they are enduring right now, and wanting to do what is best for their child. Which makes it all the more maddening to hear that people would insert themselves into this horrific situation in this way, using it as a convenient time to pick up a new crop of children, how nice.

If they wanted to help the children of Haiti, they could join with one of the many relief agencies in distributing food, water and medical supplies; or they could join in the efforts to clean up; or they could have just stayed home in Idaho and held a bake sale and sent the money to a Haitian orphanage.

Whatever they think they were doing in their minds doesn't matter. Out here in the civilized world, where laws matter, what they did was improper and illegal. They need to see some consequences for their actions. Hopefully the authorities will make a reasonable assessment and then make recommendations. Also, hopefully, the authorities will look into any "orphanage" or "adoption agency" that this group is involved with, if such exist.

[liberalmuse]

41. That doesn't excuse it.

It's not okay to break the law, and child trafficking, no matter how 'good' your intentions, is unconscionable. If their intentions were good, they would have brought food and supplies to help both the children AND their parents. WTF are they doing transporting children with parents to the DR anyway, a known child sex trafficking state? I'm sorry, this stinks bigtime. And CNN isn't exactly a solid news source.

[Blue_Tires]

85. +1

this story about a makeshift orphanage across the border doesn't add up at all...

[truth2power]

87. Whether or not the parents "gave" their children to the missionaries is not the point..

Haiti is currently in a state of crisis, by anyone's determination. Parents cannot be assumed able to give INFORMED CONSENT under these circumstances.

A major life decision, such as whether to give up your child, should be a deliberative process. We don't know whether the parents were cajoled or what they were told about their childrens' future.

This whole thing smacks of being a loosey-goosey operation. Those "missionaries" had no clue what they were doing. And that's putting the best face on it. They could have had more nefarious motives.

They belong in jail.



edit> typo

[Bluebear]

15. The children were screaming that they were not orphans as they were being driven away.

[Bluebear]

20. Also they were told they were just going to a "school" with swimming pools & horses & parks

Like when my Dad told me my dog went to a big farm with lots of children to play with where he could roam around. :mad:

[REP]

17. It's nice to believe that, isn't it? After all, poor people don't love their children

At least, not as much as rich people would. And babies can't complain or remember their real surnames.

[inthebrain]

21. In an interview with their parents

They stated they did so to give their children a better life. This has nothing to do with your assumption of my bigotry (as a matter of fact I did grow up an orphan). It has more to do with what little you know of what happened.

[Pithlet]

24. What part of they had no paperwork is hard to understand?

They were secreting them away to another country without paperwork. It isn't hard to understand what was going on there. If they were on the up and up, they would be doing things legally.

[REP]

26. The assumption was on the part of the kidnappers

The parents thought their children were being taken to a school.

[inthebrain]

32. That common when parents give their children up for adoption

They don't tell them "Sorry kid, I love ya, but I gotta give you away"

I challenge anyone here with kids, if you were in a position where you could no loger care for them, you best option to ensure a better life for them was to give them up, if you would do any different. Not to mention tell your kids they are probably not going to see you again. That kid will fight tooth and nail to stay with you.

[Pithlet]

38. You are unbelievable. n/t

[inthebrain]

47. What is unbelievable

is that judging by what you've written here, you have no interest not to mention ANY inclination to understand what these people are going through. Much less take in interest in what any child hears from their parents who give them up for adoption.

I know many of them. We are all life long friends and keep in contact to this day.

"It's only for a few months"

"We'll see you when the summer is over"

Yeah, like the parents telling their kids that they are going on a retreat is any different. Not to mention that the parents themselves are on the record proclaiming they WILLINGLY gave these kids up for adoption.

[JI7]

49. it doesn't matter, there is a reason why there are laws and people need to follow them

you can easily get people who want to sell the kids to claim they want to give them a better life and end up selling the kids to something like slavery or prostitution.

because of lack of background check, paper work etc nobody will know what happened to the kids.

[inthebrain]

55. These people were not selling these kids into slavery or prostitution.

[JI7]

57. it doesn't matter, there is a process for things like adoption and everyone needs to follow it

if it was a group of black men i doubt people would be defending them.

[Pithlet]

58. You. Don't. Know. That.

You have no idea what their intentions were. Someone walks off with my kids and I don't know them, and I catch them in the act. You think I'm going to take their word for it if they say "Oh! I was just taking them for a walk!" Hell no. I would prosecute. If someone gets caught kidnapping. They have to pay their dues. They got caught kidnapping. They have to pay. There are reports of child trafficking going on in Haiti. Did you know that? Do you think child traffickers look a certain way or something?

[gulfcoastliberal]

86. You do not know that. nt

[Caretha]

96. You don't really know that

You assume a whole hell of a lot friend. Unless you can personally testify to the exact circumstances that every single one of those children would end up in, you don't have any veracity, and your claims are as full of holes as a fishing net.

[Pithlet]

54. You are naive.

Have you ever heard of child trafficking. Slavery. Kids being sold into sexual slavery? Is any of this ringing a bell for you?

[suffragette]

83. They didn't willingly give the children up for adoption

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/world/americas/03orphans.html

And while the Americans said they did not intend to offer the children for adoption, the Web site for their orphanage makes clear that they intended to do so.
~snip~
They also wanted to give opportunities for something better to their children. They said that the missionaries had promised they would be able to visit their children in the Dominican Republic, and that the children would be free to come home for visits.


They were purposefully misled into thinking the children would be provided opportunity and an education in a safe haven nearby where they could visit the children and the children could come home to visit them.

That's very different.

What they did was criminal and they deserve to be jailed and prosecuted.

[rcrush]

27. I dont think they would willingly give their kids to Child Traffickers.

[inthebrain]

33. They are not child traffickers

The media flat out fucked that up.

[Bluebear]

35. How do you what they are? From a CNN interview?

[Pithlet]

36. They didn't have papwerwork. Who knows what they were going to do?

See. That's why following the law is so important. Even if their intentions were good, they're screwed now.

[inthebrain]

44. Yeah, it's better to follow legal channels whereby your kid is more likely

to die of dehydration and disease. The current statutes pretty much asures that.

Damn fucking law breakers!!!! Don't they know the law is holy writ!!

[malaise]

48. No paperwork = traffickers

It's that simple.

[inthebrain]

50. Yeah, die kids die!!!!

You have no paperwork!!!

DIE!!!

[JI7]

59. how were the kids dying ?

[Bluebear]

68. :crickets:

[Maru Kitteh]

71. What a pantload of verbal diarrhea that is.

Talk about your stupid-assed false choice fallacies!

If you don't support war in the Middle East YOU MUST BE A TERRORIST!

If you don't support kidnapping Haitian kids YOU WANT THEM TO DIE!

[DevonRex]

61. Yes, it really is that simple. +1. nt

[Posteritatis]

88. Don't youth adoptions in Haiti right now need the direct permission of one of the cabinet ministers?

I'd heard that because things were so chaotic right now they wanted to run each one past one of the ministers - I forget which one, sorry - to make sure that they weren't, well, things like this.

[Pithlet]

51. Oh, no, because there wasn't this massive reliefe effort going on or anything

And of course, nothing like a good massive disaster to excuse wealthy countries going in and having our pick of the litter for all those empty loving (white, rich) arms (best scenario). Lots of factories need some cheap *cough*free*cough labor, too.

Pick up the clue phone, please! Natural disasters in poor countries doesn't mean open season on the kiddies! People don't get to wonder in and walk off with them with no record. Hello. Child trafficking.

[inthebrain]

53. This massive relief effort where Hatians are drinking their own urine to survive

And the tent camps are not ridden with disease.

When it's your kid subjected to something like that lets just see what you would do.

Much easier to sit in the comfort of your living room and judge.

[Pithlet]

56. So let's just open them up to the rest of the world to have at them?

You're clueless.

[Bluebear]

64. This must be a "they are Christians, so they didn't do anything bad" angle

[Pithlet]

69. I don't know.

That would be one way to explain such an odd POV. I don't get "Oh, they're suffering, so let's just get rid of all that PIA red tape that protects them from silly little things like, oh, traficking." Legitimate groups that know what they're doing know how important that red tape is, and would never dream of overlooking that stuff. It's highly suspicious if a group "overlooks" something like that. No way they're on the up and up. They were doing something, and it wasn't good.

[scarletwoman]

75. I have no words for you that wouldn't get my post deleted.

"Clueless" "Disgusting" "Idiotic" "Colonialist" only barely scratch the surface.

NO ONE has a right to steal Haiti's children. I don't give a fuck WHAT their alleged "intentions" are. These people were operating under false pretenses, PERIOD.

If someone genuinely wants to help Haiti's children, they will do so by helping Haiti. NOT by grabbing up children off the streets to take them away. Stealing a nation's next generation is GENOCIDE.

sw

[Pithlet]

78. Really, that's the most important point to make. It doesn't matter what the intentions were.

It's not okay. It's not okay to take Haiti's children. Even if these people truly thought they were helping, their actions were so heinous that they need to be punished. Haiti's children are not up for grabs. It's an appalling idea. Major disasters do not mean open season on the children, noi matter how poor its citizens.

[scarletwoman]

79. Thank you for understanding.

It's not okay to take Haiti's children.

[Bluerthanblue]

80. this group of people were completely wrong- and I question

their legitimacy along with you Scarlet Woman.

Here is a link to information ANY legitimate group working in Haiti would have already had over a week before the Idaho group even left the US.

http://www.jcics.org/Haiti.htm

[Posteritatis]

89. Yep, abducting foreign children is okay because we're whit^H^H^H^Hbetter than they are! (nt)

[blogslut]

67. Then they are thieves and hucksters

This isn't Oliver Twist or Stella Dallas.. This is the modern world and those missionaries are from an educated first-world nation. They know very well they can't go trading children for promises. I can assure you they planned exploit their as-yet-to-be-built Dominican orphanage for donations, grants and tax-breaks and none of us know how much of that money would go to those children or whether or not those kids would ever be adopted.

I think their goodness of heart was a cover for old-fashioned greed.

[Bluebear]

31. The parents do not matter in the prosecution of these kidnappers.

I saw the interviews (after the fact) too. Who knows what they were paid to say or do? The OBJECTIVE fact in the case is that the children had no paperwork from the government of Haiti to be taken out of the country by strangers.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

84. So why didn't the American group --

offer to organize "adoptions" of whole families so that the parents and theiur children could stay together? Is that not the better option? Is that not the truly christian thing to do?

[Caretha]

97. That is an excellent point!!!!

That is what a real christian from Idaho would do.

Take that, those of you who supported illegally abducting Haiti's poor & their children by those so rightous white Idaho Baptist Christians. Personally, I think anyone who sees this episode as anything but a fraud and a crime need to try screwing their head back on.

[fascisthunter]

100. DING!

[DevonRex]

40. Or even where they were born. That 2 month old would have no hope

of finding its biological parents or relatives if the kidnappers had been successful.

[Canuckistanian]

18. The parents were sold a bill of goods

They probably thought they were giving their kids up to a legitimate aid authority.

[scarletwoman]

28. Link? The missionaries were claiming that these kids were orphans.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

73. This might help

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7621801&mesg_id=7621801

:hi:

[DevonRex]

39. Link? Proof? Paperwork? Anything? nt

[Pithlet]

42. Paperwork, schmaperwork.

Apparently, if you see a kid you think looks needy, just walk off with them. Tell the kid you're taking them to the circus! If anyone asks, just say your intentions were good and you're golden! After all, doing it the proper way takes too much time :crazy:

[DevonRex]

60. And apparently poor parents don't deserve to be told the truth about

where their children are going, either. And of course they don't deserve to have anything done in writing, you know, legally, which would hold the "missionaries" to any sort of standards.

If it takes Haiti a long time before they can actually try these cases, that's fine with me. Those people took advantage of chaos to steal children. And that chaos may well prevent any speedy action. Sounds like justice.

[Pithlet]

63. I agree. I'd prefer they wait there.

I'm afraid if they came to America a jury would buy their tearful act and they'd go free.

[joeybee12]

93. Willingly? Parents who probably just lost everything and were desperate

approached by some nitiwts saying they could provide for them is not willingly...it's called taking advantage of an horrific situation.

[REP]

16. They're crying about all the money they're not going to make selling "orphans"

Sooo sad. Tee hee.

[malaise]

46. +1,000

Ding ding.

[Speck Tater]

25. One problem with religion is that it gives people the idea that anything they do ...

is above the law because it's "righteous" and they answer to a "higher authority." It's that same kind of I-know-better-than-you attitude that gives fanatics the "right" to kill people who don't agree with them.

Any way you look at it, religion is just bad for one's mental health, and bad for the world as a whole.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. You'll notice the photo shows white, Christian, blond, American women.

You wouldn't be seeing many apologists if the demographics were reversed.

[freeplessinseattle]

62. yeah, and Idaho is haven to some white supremecist groups

so may not exactly be the safest of refuges among many other reasons.

[Solly Mack]

52. k/r

[lonestarnot]

77. The audacity of those people is astounding. Subversion of the law is where we're at these days

though so not surprised at their "letting the lord decide." :eyes:

[malaise]

94. It's the O'Keefe defense; it's the Roeder defense

They are never guilty when they break the law because their Jebus motives are always right and pure. Throw away the blasted keys.

[fascisthunter]

101. fanatics can't live in any system

they will always claim god as an excuse.... psychos do the same thing.

[polly7]

82. Sort of reminds me of all the hundreds of thousands of

children 'rescued' from Britain in the early 1900's (many who had parents actively looking for them) and sent to the colonies to be treated like cattle, never knowing their families. Hearing that these Haitian children were yelling 'we're not orphans' as they were being driven away just breaks my heart.

[gulfcoastliberal]

91. The "missionaries" are probably a "finders"-type offshoot.

Info on the finders:
http://www.voxfux.com/features/cia_child_sex.html

If so, expect the missionaries to quietly disappear after their operatives are released.

[fascisthunter]

98. the greatest crime here... religious taking advantage of a bad situation

you don't need a religion to help the poor... no strings attached.

[Caretha]

99. Reacting to the pic & headline

Go ahead & weep. May your God forgive you, because I can't.

[Blue_Tires]

102. UPDATE: Laura Silsby left trail of financial woes in Idaho

http://www.idahostatesman.com/localnews/story/1067267.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7637695


Oh, yeah...This woman with a history of playing fast and loose with the law and finances -- I wouldn't trust her to run a hot dog cart; and like I said, their story NEVER seemed to make sense to begin with...As others have theorized, it looks like she was maybe planning to snatch a handful of kids (after feeding a pie-in-the-sky line to some parents), buy some shack in the D.R. on the cheap and call it an 'orphanage' while soliciting donations through her church networds and/or her websites (and she gives the kids maybe a ONE PERCENT increase in the quality of their lives while pocketing the rest)...

It looks like she was a profiteer, plain and simple; and she wanted to taste some action while the world was still in such a giving mood -- That is the ONLY explanation as to why she was trying to hastily throw this together in such a shady, slipshod, fly-by-night manner...These kids were her meal tickets for propping up her business interests back home...

She should have a nice, long, uncomfortable stay in a Haitian prison...