Apple Co-Founder Steve Wozniak Claims Software to Blame for Toyota Prius Acceleration Problem

[divideandconquer]

Apple Co-Founder Steve Wozniak Claims Software to Blame for Toyota Prius Acceleration Problem


By Caleb Hannan in Technology, Transportation
Tuesday, Feb. 2 2010 @ 7:04AM

woz_and_prius.jpg
The Woz and one of his many Prii.
​Toyota says it's finally figured out why some of its recalled vehicles accelerate uncontrollably. But Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak says they might have even more reason to worry.

Speaking at a conference in San Francisco yesterday, Wozniak hinted that the problem lay not in floor mats and pedals as Toyota alleges, but with software:

"Toyota has this accelerator problem we've all heard about," Wozniak said. "Well, I have many models of Prius that got recalled, but I have a new model that didn't get recalled. This new model has an accelerator that goes wild but only under certain conditions of cruise control. And I can repeat it over and over and over again--safely."
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<http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/02/apple_co-founder_steve_wozniak.php>

[Warpy]

1. When your only tool is a hammer

Every problem looks like a nail.

[Winterblues]

3. When that hammer actually hits nails over and over again with predictability

One gets the impression a hammer is mighty good at hitting nails.

[Fumesucker]

2. Woz is somone who has a clue, more than one in fact..

He can repeat it over and over again safely because he is not a moron unlike a huge percentage of the drivers in America that couldn't put a car in neutral to quite literally save their lives.

From the link:

Wozniak said he brought up the subject because he was "teed off" that he'd spent three months trying to get in touch with Toyota and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration with no luck. A claim which, if true, does not portend good things for the average Toyota owner trying to file a complaint.

[Warpy]

12. I don't think people who have experienced the problem

while running errands in stop and go traffic or in parking lots had the cruise control engaged.

The description given by people who have had the problem seems to be one involving the mechanical system.

[RamboLiberal]

19. At least one of the fatals was on a Freeway

And a number of the reports had the cars accelerating up to 100mph. I would bet in a few instances the cruise control was engaged. I wonder if Toyota may have a sticking accelerator problem but could also have a sofware problem as well. Henry Waxman today is saying that Toyota told them that it was more than a sticking accelarator problem. I just posted the story in LBN.

[CreekDog]

27. for someone who is jumping on Wozniak, you could at least read what he said

he didn't say *all* the models did it on cruise control.

[Dappleganger]

4. Toyota has maintained that is not a software issue but a mechanical design problem. nt

[DJ13]

7. Of course they do

The pedals and mats are outside vendor supplied, thus spreading the liability out to other companies.

The software would be in-house designed, making Toyota solely responsible.

[Dappleganger]

10. Toyota has to claim resonsibility for the mechanical design

as well, even if it is out-sourced.

[ieoeja]

17. But they can then recoup some of their loss from the suppliers.

[NashVegas]

11. And the Mechanical Problem Is Caused By a Computer

This issue is going to come up again and again in the future as we allow computers more and more control to stop us humans from doing "stupid" things, like trying to shift into neutral and shut down the engine while it's running.

[JoeyT]

20. Actually you can shift

into neutral with the gas to the floor. It won't even blow the engine. It just cuts the throttle over and over to prevent the RPMs from exceeding a certain threshold.
I only know because I just tried it with my Toyota. Not that I was going to be stupid enough to blow my own engine, even if it had let it rev beyond that point. (Mine wasn't a recalled model, either.) Of course gas pedals rarely stick on a long straight stretch where you have plenty of time to shift out.

[hlthe2b]

5. Is Steve not connected enough to get a call through to Toyota?

Really?

[divideandconquer]

6. The shim is a sham,if it is software,all Toyotas need to come off the road to protect the public

Here's Toyota's line: its two recalls for floormats and sticking accelerator pedals should cover all potential cases of sudden unintended acceleration in its batch of recalled vehicles. Both recalls are for mechanical issues, and Toyota spokesman John Hanson claims, "After man years of exhaustive testing we have not found any evidence of an electronic problem that would have led to unwanted acceleration."

Enter Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple and a jolly guy who knows a thing or two about software. While speaking at the Discovery Forum 2010, the Woz claimed that his 2010 Prius, which is not a part of either recall, has an accelerator that "goes wild but only under certain conditions of cruise control." He also claimed that it's repeatable. Though Woz said he has tried to contact both Toyota and the National Highway Traffic Safety Institute, neither has reportedly investigated his claim.
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http://www.autoblog.com/

I bet Steve has the arrogant giants attention now.

[Xithras]

16. The Woz hasn't really been "connected" in a long time.

He's a wealthy man thanks to his early Apple days, but he's been out of the major corporate circles since the late 80's. He's still famous, but doesn't have the industry power or pull that Jobs wields nowadays.

[Jakes Progress]

21. It's not his non-connectedness

that keeps him from getting heard. It's that he is brilliant, acknowledged as such by all in the field. They don't want to have heard what he has to say.

Plausible deniability.

[izzybeans]

8. I think this is the tip of the iceberg for any car controlled by on-board computer.

It goes way beyond accelerators, but this is the most dangerous.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

23. So... every OBDII car ever made?

That's like what... every car since 1994?

[izzybeans]

26. Every problem I've ever had with a vehicle, outside of normal maintanance,

had to do with the computer. On a Toyota, a Ford, A chevy, and a Volvo. On the Ford and the Volvo these problems had to do with the brake system. I ditched the ford via trade-in because of it so I can't speak to exactly what it was. But the Volvo was the worst. The price gauging related to the software problems on my computer were unbelievable. On the Malibu, it had to do with a faulty oil pressure sensor (whatever the technical term for it may be) no big deal, just fucking annoying to have the oil light come on for no valid reason. In the Volvo the abs would completely shut down, slow the transmission, and cause the car to stall randomly. There is a cottage industry of mechanics who reverse engineer these things because of all the computer related problems in cars. From what I can tell, this isn't limited to any one manufacturer. Though if you google volvo abs controller you will find numerous people who will rebuild the abs controller for you very cheaply.

I wouldn't doubt if this acceleration problem has to do with the computer, is all I'm saying. When any car has a computer problem, especially what appear to be systemic ones, in the case of the volvo, it's a death trap. This has been my experience. And I wouldn't be surprised if there is knowledge of software problems being suppressed by a variety of manufacturers. Both foreign and domestic. It wouldn't be the first time or the last.

[nebenaube]

9. I said it related to the cruise control yesterday... n/t

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

13. Just get rid of the floormats

and tile the floor with iPads. problem fixed.

(kidding)

One of the local talking heads on the new yesterday claimed that Toyota was swapping accelerator pedals and replacing some engine computer bits.

But none of that might be a cause of Woz' problems with his new Prius.

:hi:

[EnviroBat]

14. I've heard it reported that 4 people were killed in a Lexus

due to a stuck accelerator on the freeway. The front seat passenger had time to call 911 and speak to an operator before the fatal crash occurred. Question is, how the hell would you not put the car in neutral and turn off the ignition in the time it took these people to call 911? Not trying to play "blame the victim" here, but that is pretty fucking dumb. This was the one accident that got the attention of the automaker and opened the floodgates to their current dilemma.

[RamboLiberal]

18. The driver of that Lexus was a CA Highway Patrol Officer

So I expect he would know what to do. I seem to recall that the 911 call was not that long and was from a passenger (his brother-in-law I believe). I just love all the keyboard drivers here who know exactly how to react and wouldn't have gotten into a accident with a Toyota made vehicle.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

24. Knock the sitck into neutral or turn the key off.

The first time I read this story... it took all of 5 seconds to wonder why people didn;t get thier car out of gear or just stop the running engine. Seriously - it's not "keyboard driving"... it's a common sense reaction.

#1) Brake
#2) Ebrake
#3)downshift (in an automatic I guess just pop it into neutral)
#4) shut the key off

[Kalyke]

15. BUY A FORD.

[madokie]

25. The only logical thing that can be taken from this

git yo ass down to the ford dealership


I'd rather have a picture of a ford as the keys to all them there TOYota's :-)

[Jakes Progress]

22. It's cheaper to make shims

or new floor mat grommets than it is to replace several million computers.