What is wrong with the country/world?

[trackfan]

We are told today, in reference to the budget cuts that include funds for a moon mission: "An independent panel found that Constellation was years behind schedule and would require large budget increases to land even a handful of astronauts back on the Moon before 2030."

Without debating the merits of another moon mission - I really don't have a great concern about that one way or the other - I would like to know one thing: WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH THAT? WE WENT TO THE FUCKING MOON WHEN I WAS 9 YEARS OLD AND OUR HOTTEST TECHNOLOGY WAS A TRANSISTOR RADIO!!!!

Don't fucking tell me we can't do something that we did 40 years ago. Bring back the goddamn Soviet Union. At least with them around we had a reason to achieve something - including a fairer society -since we had to at least make perhaps a feint at competing with Marxism.

[scarletwoman]

1. Capitalism "won", dontcha know.

We are now all reaping its benefits.

[Speck Tater]

2. The empire is declining and about to fall.

This is how things look when a civilization is past its prime and on the fast track to utter collapse.

[galileoreloaded]

7. Truer words have not been uttered.....n/t

[Rebubula]

14. No...

...No it is not.

If looking for the falling sky keeps you sane....so be it. I think that many people WANT it to crumble and fall.

[Swamp Rat]

25. How do you know?

ALL empires fall, one way or another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLjLcNZFdcc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire

[begin_within]

3. Selfishness destroyed civilization.

[HeresyLives]

4. China and India are going.

In the end, people do what they choose to do, and they always find the money to do it if they care about it.

[riverdale]

5. No manned spacecraft ever landed on the moon

Would President Nixon lie to you? Yeeesss

[asdjrocky]

6. Please, tell me that's a joke.

Please.

[WVRICK13]

12. Agreed

Isn't it strange that in 1969 we went (LOL) to the moon and now we are 20 years from being able to go again. Logic is logic. The cold war was at a high point, disappear billions of dollars into NASA that funds covert operations and the world is clueless. Seriously, why can't we go tomorrow if we know how and have done it before. Just asking.

[Duppers]

15. uh?!

NASA "funds covert operations"??

What's your source? Because a senior scientist working 33 yrs for NASA would like to know.



Why is it that every time funding is mentioned, some one pops up bashing NASA &/or science funding?
Sounds like some freeperville forum...except they'd like the covert thing.

[WVRICK13]

22. I Didn't State

facts with sources I merely named possible occurrences therefore it is impossible to cite sources. As a NASA scientist maybe you can explain why we can't do the same thing today we did 41 years ago. You have to admit, to a layman that poses some questions. In fact I have never bought into the conspiracy theory but I also never considered that question at hand until this morning. I'm sure there may be logical reasons we can't replicate the event. I have been a supporter of NASA since childhood. As a person with advanced degrees in Applied Research I find research and exploration exciting . As a researcher I ask lots of questions and pose many answers or theories but I will never state something as fact without proof. If you would be willing to discuss the reasons feel free to email me, it doesn't have to be in a public forum. I want a chance to learn and as a NASA scientist you could help educate me.

[Duppers]

23. well...

You stated in your first post: "Isn't it strange that in 1969 we went (LOL) to the moon..."
Yeah, haha! :sarcasm:
With that statement you directly implied that we did not go to the moon! With that statement you implied that the flights were a farce and a possible camouflage for some 'covert' activity and a way to hide the billions for those convert activities. And with that statement alone you've raised my suspicions about that "advanced degrees in Applied Research." Any one who claims such a degree would already know a good deal more about NASA's missions over the last 4 decades, I would think.

Of course, NASA began in the Cold War with an eye on defense; however, to my knowledge, NASA was never involved in hiding funds.

My anger regarding your allegations aside, I think you raise a good point for laymen. Why not now and where has the money gone?

Btw, I am not the NASA physicist w/33 yrs experience; my husband is. I read your posts to him and he exploded with indignation and told me not to waste my time. Being a typical wife, I'm ignoring him. ;)

You can do research w/o any guidance from me in regard to all the projects NASA has been involved in the last 35 yrs. However, I will point out the following:

Nixon canceled that last several space flights and dismantled the moon probe program, including all hardware. That hardware was/is not recoverable. (If you're the least familiar w/how govt. handles ANY thing that is not currently budgeted for, you will know it disappears into some black hole.)

NASA decided (or it was decided for them), in dealing their budgets cuts, to use the remaining funds to concentrate on other important projects, including: unmanned flights, deep space probes to other planets, meteoroids, asteroids, & comets research, new advanced materials research, new propulsion systems, lower earth orbits (SkyLab, the Space Station, the ISS, the Space Shuttle), studies of magnetic fields, solar wind experiments, communication satellites, etc., etc. And not to be over-looked considerable advances in aeronautics! And construction and maintenance of the Hubble Space telescope, the design and implementation of the new Webb Space telescope, and support of countless astronomical observatories around the world. Also, I must include major research initiatives at varies universities throughout the U.S.

(Did you know that the defense dept. has their OWN space program with their own spy satellites with their own launch capabilities?)

A layman might think that all of these projects would factor into manned flights; only to a degree, they do. A moon landing is incredibly complex (and expensive) because it's dealing with human lives. The money does not exist at NASA to support such an initiative. New, better space vehicles with safer advanced materials is expensive to build and takes considerable time, especially when back-up systems must be developed for safety reasons. NASA does not want to lose any more lives. That's a mandate, especially because of the pressure placed on the agency due to the lost of two space shuttles and too many lives over the last 24 yrs. Safety is now the no.1 issue at NASA and safety redundancy is very costly and time consuming. Bush's mandate to build a future moon station in 2004 with the pittance of funding offered was a joke around the agency.

Wiki has a simple history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA#History

Then ck out the current budget:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7626604



One final point, did you know that all the Apollo Launch sites are over gown with weeds and the facilities have decayed? NASA's priorities have been jerked around like an ADD kid playing ball.
So, don't blame them. They're doing GREAT work with what they have. It's funding, funding, funding. The cost to go back to the moon is probably more than our economy or the public can stand at this time.

[northofdenali]

24. I grew up on Merritt Island, during the time KSC was established.

My mom still lives there. You're telling the absolute truth. My daddy was "in the blockhouse" for years.

NASA is the only good government program ever initiated. Medicare doesn't come close. Nor does Social Security.

How does the above idiot explain Hubble? I've seen launches, aborted launches, manned launches, including John Glenn's downrange original launch. Those guys ARE heroes. I met the "First Seven" at a dinner on Cocoa Beach when I was 7 years old. These guys are NOT fake, they did NOT stage moon landings (and it's more than one) for black ops purposes. They were THERE. Google Carpenter, for christ's sake!!

Sorry. Idiots get my mad on. Thank you for your post.

[Duppers]

26. thank you, northofdenali

You've had some exciting times!

My hubby won the Nat'l Space Club's Dryden Fellowship a # of yrs back and at their dinner in DC got to meet some of these heroes too.

Good on you too for speaking up.

:fistbump:

[Duppers]

27. want to hear some funny, I mean ridiculously funny.

One person thought we could fly the Space Shuttle to the moon!!!!

I liked to have died laughing.

[northofdenali]

28. Eek.

I wouldn't fly that bird to the nearest asteroid, and admire those with the guts to go up at all.

We badly need a new, concentrated, all-out Space program, with NASA in charge.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hardrada]

8. Overpopulation Not enough of anything to go around.

[Greyhound]

10. That's what some would like you to believe, but it just isn't so. n/t

[raccoon]

16. You got that right. nt

[Hardrada]

20. And overconsumption by the wealthiest of the countries

which may not be as overpopulated but do more than their share to eat up the world's limited resources.

[ddeclue]

9. NASA's budget is less than 1/3rd of what it was at the peak of Apollo

and very little of that is dedicated to Constellation/Ares program - give me the 1968/1969 budget adjusted for inflation and 300,000 engineers and we'll be able to do anything you like.

[depakid]

11. Easier, cheaper and more effective to go with unmanned exploration

Pretty simple choice, really

[Kitty Herder]

19. I agree. nt

[KharmaTrain]

13. A Luxuary We Can't Afford...

...nor can anyone else, as no other country has attempted a moon landing or appears to be interested.

I grew up watching all the 60s space missions...Mercury, Gemini & Apollo. I was in Israel when Neil Armstrong took those first steps and I never felt prouder of being an American...still, nothing comes close to the great feeling I had that day and the marvel of seeing those first pictures.

That said, the missions in the 60s were a statement...showing our technical and economic might. It was a lot different USA than we have today. We didn't have the defecits we do today...and an industrial/scientific infrastructure that made that feat possible. Look at the economic decline that this country has endured...the space program is both a symptom and a symbol of that decline.

I'm a big proponent of space exploration, but manned missions are a perk...unmanned landers can accomplish most the scientific goals without the costs and risks. It also appears to be a non-starter with the military-industrial complex...there's more profit in wars than there is for space exploration. I was hoping by now we'd have private companies that would take the lead in this area...and if and when a time comes that such a mission is profitable, then we'll be back on the moon.

Right now we have millions out of work...and little hope for immediate relief. We have a crumbled infrastructure where all those great innovations of the 60s are now being outsourced. While I'm dissapointed NASA will again have to take the budget axe, I can see many more uses for that money here on planet Earth.

[dem629]

18. ANSWER: Sushi, reality TV and Dane Cook.

[Uncle Joe]

21. The United States is like it's national symbol in more ways than one.

We do soar high like Bald Eagles, but the stronger chick will kill the weaker one, particularly when shortage occurs or in our case perceived shortage.

Mega-corporations; are consuming the American People and the nation's best interests for the sake of their own narrow profit, we could have easily financed space travel and other critical national needs, had we not bailed out the national casino-banks.

Thanks for the thread, trackfan.