Guns don't kill, people do

[wtmusic]

But guns allow stupid, angry people to screw up innocent people's lives forever - in a moment.

That's why we need gun control.

[MGD]

1. flame bait.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

2. The guy at NASA told his boss he "was tired of being called stupid" -- right before he killed him.

Got a clue?? Bullying, name-calling, job insecurity, ostracism, etc. Where do you think the term "Going Postal" came from? Somebody got fired at the Post Office and decided to plug the boss.

People and their dysfunctional relationships are the problem.

All the high school shooters were bullied by the jocks for being different.

[spoony]

6. We are a competitive and often cruel country, and

I think you've well stated the deeper and, invariably, ignored aspects of these tragedies.

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. Alcohol allows stupid, angry people to screw up innocent people's lives forever...

So do cigarrettes. So does water (witness the woman who died in CA after the radio contest). We HAVE gun control.

I was playing in a Little League game about 35 years ago. A friend of mine tossed a rock no larger than your fingernail across the diamond more as a joke than anything else. It hit another friend of mine (on the other team) right in the eye, and he lost it. Ban rocks? Or baseball? Or competition?

Cars allow stupid, angry people to screw up innocent people's lives forever. Ban driving?

I nearly cut my thumb off as a kid, trying to dissect a golf ball with a single-edge razor. Ban single-edge razors?

How about we just ban stupidity, ignorance, insanity, mental illness, depression, pederasty, and common stupidity instead?


OOOOHHHHH... what a wonderful world it could be....

[smoogatz]

29. Dumbest pro-gun argument ever.

Look, there's no reasonable way to argue that banning the sale, manufacture and import of handguns in this country wouldn't greatly reduce the number of homicides overall, and cut the number of gun homicides by more than half. The ONLY reason that didn't happen thirty years ago is because of the gun manufacturing lobby. Here's an idea for you: how about we stop making it ridiculously easy for crazy people to obtain easily concealable, high capacity, large caliber, semi-automatic handguns that have no legitimate purpose other than killing large numbers of people very quickly? Maybe when we've figured that one out, we can deal with the rock-throwing problem. Sheesh.

[benEzra]

72. Is that why police carry them?

Here's an idea for you: how about we stop making it ridiculously easy for crazy people to obtain easily concealable, high capacity, large caliber, semi-automatic handguns that have no legitimate purpose other than killing large numbers of people very quickly?

Is that why police carry them? To kill large numbers of people very quickly? 70% of guns in police holsters are Glocks (although the trend is away from the 9mm, which many PD's see as underpowered).

My wife owns a 15-round Glock 9mm, for defensive purposes and recreational target shooting. I'd call both of those legitimate purposes, as would the ~40 million other people who own handguns.

Look, there IS common ground to be found on preventing the mentally disturbed from purchasing handguns. But pipe dreams about outlawing handguns or small-caliber rifles are NOT going to come to pass, and attempting to do so would only hand Congress to the repubs and prevent any meaningful reform of our mental health care system (or worse).

Look, there's no reasonable way to argue that banning the sale, manufacture and import of handguns in this country wouldn't greatly reduce the number of homicides overall, and cut the number of gun homicides by more than half.

Just like 80 years of the most draconian heroin ban possible has greatly reduced its potency, purity, and availability to those on the fringes of society. Oh, wait...

If you could wave a magic wand and magically make the guns in criminal hands vanish, yes, you might have some positive effects. But prohibition doesn't have a very good success record in this country, whether the object be alcohol, cannabinoids, or diacetyl morphine; they could just smuggle handguns into the country disguised as routine cocaine shipments, yes?

Your same argument could be applied to alcohol (273 deaths per day, or 100K/yr, per the CDC), but that's been tried, and it didn't work.

[hedgehog]

52. Yes, it's time to get rid of all those single edged razors.

I'm tired of reading about school massacres where the razor man keeps walking up to person after person and slitting their throat.
It's too bad that more people don't carry shivs. They could stop those crazed razor men in a minute!

[Jack Sprat]

4. I know. But guns make it much easier.

It is hard work to beat people to death.

[WillyT]

5. I Don't Mind Guns Being Available...

I just think that bullets should be $1,000 a piece.

:evilgrin:

[MGD]

9. Sounds like a great idea to me. Let's see, I have about ten thousand rounds of ammo in various

calibers. That's $10,000,000.00 worth of ammunition sitting in my basement. Hell yeah.

[SidDithers]

38. Why do you have 10k rounds of ammo in your basement?...nt

Sid

[MGD]

54. Because I haven't been shooting in a while but I haven't stopped reloading.

It starts to accumulate after a while. I'll probably shoot most of it up this summer unless it starts selling for $1,000/rd. In that case, I'll be selling it all on the black market and will be moving to a south pacific island shortly thereafter...or maybe Ammstedam....or both.

[WillyT]

78. Hey Man...Sell It !!! - You'll Make A Killing !!!

:woohoo:

[tblue]

7. If 32 people died from eating tainted apples, how long would it take before apples were removed from

every grocery store?

I didn't come up with this clever analogy. Wish I had tho. Personally, I wouldn't mind if every gun in the world was destroyed and they were universally banned. One can dream.

[Kool Kitty]

10. With this administration in power, not only

would apples not be pulled from the shelves, they would be selling them "buy a bushel, get a bushel free".

[tblue]

11. Well, somebody recalled the bad spinach and lettuce

[Kool Kitty]

21. I was being sarcastic. I am not a gun fan.

[-..__...]

82. Clever?!?

Actually... it's pretty foolish.

It's not even a close analogy unless the final conclusion is that there was a public outcry to ban apples.

[AtomicKitten]

8. Guns don't kill people, bullets do.

Guns just get the bullets going really fast.

[tblue]

12. Heroin doesn't addict people. So we should have the right to bear heroin?

[AtomicKitten]

16. *

perhaps you missed the sarcastic humor in my statement ...

[tblue]

79. Oh no. I got it. And I loved it!

[wtmusic]

23. 2009: Senator AtomicKitten's Slow Bullet legislation becomes law

"It was a tough fight," said Senator Kitten. "Though some are critical of conceding concealed weapons, automatic weapons, and pea shooters to the NRA, the max muzzle velocity of 10 ft/sec for all ammo was a major victory..."

[AtomicKitten]

25. my legislation advocates returning to muskets

wherein the actual loading of the gun gives the intended target
time to hail a cab and get the hell out of Dodge

[wtmusic]

27. ROFL

there you go. The shooter would probably expend any excess anger at the damn musket.

[hedgehog]

53. It could be justified as a strict constructionist interpretation of the

w2ns Amendment, could it not?

[qdemn7]

13. No, what we need....

Is better mental health care in this country. Not just some MD writing a 'scrip for Prozac or Paxil because that's all the HMO will let them. And then they kill themselves because the 'zac or Paxil makes them feel worse. If HMOs can spend $$$$$ for helping a guy get his dick hard they can fund mental health better.

Is National Health Care so people don't think their life is going to come to an end when they get fired and they lose their health insurance.

Is to have quite Congress passing legislation to solve a problem, and then not funding the mandates they pass. (The NCIS mental health provisions reporting of the Brady Law). That might have prevented VT.

Is to have states do their fucking jobs in reporting mentally ill people to the NCIS, instead whining about it like a spoiled brat and then spending money to file lawsuits to keep them from doing their jobs instead of spending the money to do their fucking job.

Is to quit acting in a pre-emptive manner toward people who have done nothing wrong.

[flobee1]

14. Cars allow stupid, angry people to screw up innocent people's lives forever. Ban driving?

Cars are also licenced and insured

When you bought your car, did you skip drivers ed, forget to put tags on your car ect?

If you drive your car in an unsafe manner, do the police not pull you over?

The car is used as transportation, but it is a potential weapon
I would like to see at least the same safegards put in place for guns as there is for cars
backround checks
manditory training
insurance
licensing

And what is so wrong about a week waiting period to check the person out?:shrug:

[qdemn7]

15. If Guns Were Treated Like Cars

If Guns Were Treated Like Cars

1. You could get a simple license from the State for a nominal fee and only have to take a test that any idiot could pass. You'd only have to renew it every 10 years for 40 years and maybe retake the test if you move out of state.

2. You could kill and injure people with your gun while drunk and still have your lawyer get your gun back because you need it for work.

3. You'd have half the tax burden of the county and State dedicated to improving the shooting ranges and facilities. The public agrees this is never good enough to suit them and with all the gunowners from California moving in, the range capacity will never catch up. Lines at the range are always shown on TV with the newsies deploring the crowding.

4. You could carry in any State at any time because carry and possession of your gun is honored nationwide and is considered a basic American civil right.

5. You would see commercials on TV pushing the newest, latest guns which you could lease for just $25 per month subject to the fine print.

6. You could finance a fancier gun than you can really afford by taking a 5 year loan with approved credit.

7. You would have a gun safe built into every house. In the upscale houses you would have 3 gun safes. Inexpensive houses and mobile homes would just have a gunrack by the door.

8. You'd have gun storage lockers at the shopping mall in which to store your rifle while shopping. This in order to free your arms for packages. The convenience of the shopper is paramount.

9. You could buy ammunition at the 7-11.

Full-service station means they'll reload your magazines for you.

10. The news would stop reporting gun accidents unless more than 10 children were killed at one time. Onesy-twosey would only be notable in small towns or if Princess Di's bodyguard shot her while aiming at paparazzi.

11. If the price of ammunition rose 20% the Federal Government would release war reserves of ammo to bring the price back down to the consumer's comfort level.

Ammo would carry a 50% tax to finance public shooting ranges.

Teapot Dome scandal would have been about a lead mine.

12. We'd teach gunsmithing in vocational-education programs.

13. Every 16 year old would be looking forward to the day when he could take the family revolver to school. The rich kids would get a high-capacity semi-auto pistol on their 16th birthday and endanger everyone when they learn to use it in public.

14. High schools would have large gun lockers to store student's arms while they attend classes. Administrators would try to charge for the service to discourage teen-age gun carrying to school.

15. Schools would have shooter's education classes to make sure the kids could pass the test. They would show gory films of gunshot wounds. The squeamish would throw up.

16. Old people who can hardly see would still be permitted to shoot in public because to disarm them would be to damage their self- esteem. Families would wring their hands over holes in the walls and ceiling. Occasionally an oldster would fire into a schoolyard when they mistake the trigger for the safety. Legislators would refrain from criticizing because of the AARP's influence.

17. Congress would be debating alternative weapons systems for people who can't afford their own guns.

18. There would be such a thing as "public weapons" for the masses.

19. Congress would be subsidizing weapons for people too limited in means to afford their own.

20. Congress would be willing to float a loan to Colt's in order to ensure the survival of an American company against unfair foreign competition. (Think "Chrysler")

21. We, except for Ralph Nader, would dismiss 40,000 deaths and 500,000 injuries per year as "the price of freedom."

22. You would have MADS. Mothers Against Drunk Shooters (instead of HCI). MADS would conduct a campaign of public education instead of trying to use the force of government to prohibit irresponsible drinking and shooting.

23. You could rent a gun at any airport if you are over 25 and have a credit card.

24. You would have the fringe-greenies advocating bows and arrows because they think gunsmoke is damaging the environment.

Al Gore would write a book about the damaging effects of gunsmoke.

Al Gore would also claim to have been a handloader before his sister died in a powder fire.

25. You'd have huge outcry in the Press and Congress over our dependence on cheap, imported, foreign ammunition.

26. Ted Kennedy would have shot Mary Jo Kopekne instead. Ted would be a few thousand dollars richer (bullet:$0.25 vs car:$3000) Ted would stop carrying his own gun and instead, hire bodyguards to carry fully-automatic weapons under their coats for him.

27. You'd have businesses like "Jiffy Gun-Clean" to make life convenient. But you'd always worry that they might not have gotten the magazine fully seated afterwards.

28. You'd have "Classic Gun Events" with parades on public roads as everyone with such a classic carries it for all the public to see.

29. You'd have huge eyesores where piles of guns are left to rust in the open at "Gun Junk Yards". They would charge you outrageous prices to go out back and pick off a hammer or sear which is probably also worn out like the one you want to replace.

30. There would be a booming business and debate about substituting non-OEM parts in the gun repair business.

31. You'd have TV news crews going under cover with hidden cameras to ferret out "unscrupulous gun smiths." This story would be "old reliable" and works every year.

32. The Japanese would be trying , and succeeding at taking over the market for efficient, reliable high-quality guns.

The Koreans would be trying to sneak in at the low end of the market.

The Germans would be selling premium brands based on better workmanship, longer life, and brand cachet. But their guns would require you to take it to a gunsmith every 3 months for a complete tear-down and dimensional inspection at outrageous labor rates.

The Italians would paint their guns flaming red and they would have a reputation for being finicky.

The State Department would be applying pressure to get Japan to allow more US-built guns into their country.

The Japanese would resist the US by saying that Japanese shooters have extra-special safety requirements that only Japanese manufacturers can meet.

33. You'd have an entire section of the Saturday Coloradoan devoted to ads for new and used guns.

34. You'd have a pair of fun-loving gunsmiths on Public Radio doing a show on gun problems. They'd be named "Tap & Rack"

35. There would have been a terrible TV show back in the black & white days named "My Mother - The Gun" It starred Jerry Van Dyke and ran just one season.

36. Dean Jones would have made a series of stupid movies starring Herbie the Love-Gun. Herbie was an adorable anthropomorphized cheap German Saturday Night Special. Dean Jones would never show his face in public again after these movies.

37. Competition would be carried on TV all day on Saturdays. The Daytona 500 would be round-count instead of miles. There would be speed contests, endurance contests, and off-range marksmanship events. NASGUN would create big heroes in the South and extravagant marketing opportunities.

38. High-schools would paint up a gun in the colors of the opposition and charge $.25 for you to swing a sledge hammer at that gun during pep rallys.

39. John Elway would own half the gunstores in the Denver Metro area.

40. Wellington Webb's wife would be carrying the finest English Double shotgun money can buy while Wellington has body guards to carry his semi-auto pistols for him.

41. Back in the 1970's during the ammo crisis, Congress would have set a maximum cyclic rate for autos and semi autos in order to conserve ammo.

42. After Iraq was pushed out of Kuwait, the national cyclic rate was raised to something all semi-autos can be comfortable with.

43. The Coloradoan would be publishing the locations of range repair work every week to be sure no one would be inconvenienced.

44. The Beachboys would have released some songs about guns:

"Spring little Cobray gettin' ready to strike..... Spring little Cobray with all your might....."

"She's real fine my Wonder Nine, she's real fine my Won-der Nine."

"Fun, fun, fun 'til Daddy takes her Kel-Tec away......"

45. Letters to editors would be written decrying that all those Soccer Moms are lugging .50 cal machine guns around town, wasting ammo and getting in everybody's way.

46. Letters to editors would be written responding that putting one's beginning driver son or daughter behind a .50 cal would mean that the writer's offspring would survive any conflict with lesser armed individuals.

47. Al Gore would claim he invented the .50cal cartridge and say he was sorry.

48. Cities would be experimenting with electric guns but would be surprised to find that people would step in front of them at the range because they were too quiet so no one knew the electric gun was there.

49. President Clinton would demand that electric gun manufacturers put a cowbell on each one to prevent senseless accidents.

50. The National Rifle Association would be reduced to selling travel insurance for your guns because the rest of society will have seen to it that there would be no chance that firearms would ever be banned.

Copyright 2000 by Ron Miller. All Rights Reserved.

[gatorboy]

17. VRROOOOMM!

Thomas Jefferson had the sweetest ride!

I can't remember what the other Founding Father's cars looked like. Anyone know?

[wtmusic]

18. Nothing wrong with it

and IMO yours is a sensible approach.

I'm not sure the gun/car analogy holds water though. Cars are a necessity for many. To consider guns a necessity nowadays is a stretch.

[smoogatz]

31. Really, really bad analogy.

But you already know that.

[Senator]

19. Wars Don't Kill ... War Criminals Do.

Impeachment Saves Lives.

---

[slackmaster]

20. Other than the gun control we already have, what more do you think we need?

I think the limits we already have in place are appropriate, but there are technical problems that prevent them from being adequately enforced.

[wtmusic]

22. None

What are the technical problems?

[slackmaster]

24. I mean like the one that allowed the VT shooter to pass the background check

Federal law prohibited him from buying a gun. He should have failed it, but passed because of reporting inconsistencies on mental health adjudications and commitments.

I'm having a hard time reconciling your answer "None" with the OP. If you really mean the measures we have in place now are needed in order to prevent stupid, crazy people from buying guns, I agree but would add the caveat that our gun control is not adequately enforced.

[wtmusic]

26. The OP was in response to the tired argument

that addressing mental health should be the main focus of preventing incidents like VT.

Because there will always be stupid angry people, enforcement of the laws we have should be #1 on the list. Though I don't see any technological hurdle, just a commitment one, I think we're on the same page about this.

[slackmaster]

28. No single solution is the answer to this or any other complex problem

Better mental health care is necessary to identify and flag people who are seriously disturbed. Better law enforcement is needed to make sure they don't have easy access to firearms.

[smoogatz]

30. Ban the sale, manufacture and import of handguns.

Cut gun homicides by more than half. Save over 7,000 lives a year, on average.

[slackmaster]

33. Not much logic to support that, smoogatz

Save over 7,000 lives a year, on average.

A subset of those deaths would occur by means other than handguns, as is apparently happening in Australia now that handgun ownership is strictly limited. Handgun deaths are down, but the overall murder and suicide rates are not.

People killed themselves and each other in large numbers before handguns were invented.

[smoogatz]

35. Of course there is.

Look at the homicide rates in countries where handguns are strictly regulated or banned, then look at the US. There's a direct correlation in every case to the ease with which handguns can be obtained in a society and the number of gun homicides, as well as the overall murder rate (more handguns=more gun homicides=higher homicide rate--I challenge you to find a case in which this is not true. And don't even think about trying to bullshit me with Switzerland). And perhaps you'd like to share your pre-1450 (or whenever) homicide figures with the rest of us, so we can compare. I wouldn't know where to look them up.

[slackmaster]

37. Correlation does not prove causation

The murder rate in the UK has always tracked that of the US, and it has always been roughly 1/3 that of the US. Both rise and fall basically in line with global economic conditions. This has been true since before either country had any gun control at all (1920 for the UK, 1934 for the USA).

There's a direct correlation in every case to the ease with which handguns can be obtained in a society and the number of gun homicides, as well as the overall murder rate (more handguns=more gun homicides=higher homicide rate--I challenge you to find a case in which this is not true.

Vermont has one of the lowest murder rates in the USA, and some of the most permissive gun laws. It's one of only two states where an adult with no criminal record can carry a concealed, loaded handgun in public without any kind of permit or training.

The District of Columbia has one of the highest murder rates in the USA, and some of the strictest gun laws.

[smoogatz]

42. And what was the rate of handgun ownership in the UK pre 1920,

compared with the U.S.? That figure might tell us something useful, but your NRA talkig points don't. Nor does your goofball NRA nonsense about Vermont vs DC. If you'd ever been to D.C., or looked at a fucking MAP of the region, even, you'd know that DC is a 61 square-mile isalnd of gun control, floating between Virginia and Maryland. Virginia is one of the easiest states in the country in which to buy a handgun, as evidenced by the recent massacre at VT. Try again.

[slackmaster]

44. You've just proved you are not capable of carrying on a civil conversation

You are only the fourth DUer to qualify for my Ignore list. One of the other three is tombstoned after a long career spewing the same kind of hateful blather as you.

Buh-bye.

[smoogatz]

46. Off you go.

Clutching your pearls.

[DemGa]

32. Guns don't "prime " the human mind for violence

Oh wait, yes they do.

[piedmont]

34. It's the evil mind-control rays they give off.

Guns are actually made of Evilrundium, the 666th element. It gives off radiation in the evil part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

[smoogatz]

36. Never mind the statistical evidence that completely refutes the pro-handgun

manufacutrers' bullshit arguments. The solution to these spree killings is to radically change human nature--not to make it harder for crazy people to buy Glock 9mm semi-automatic weapons with high capacity clips.

[piedmont]

39. Looks like you agree with the NRA

not the sarcasm, but what you were actually saying.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/national/stories/042107dnnatguns.38107a3.html

[smoogatz]

40. Really? The NRA thinks the manufacture, sale and import of handguns

should be outlawed? How refreshing.

[piedmont]

45. They want to make it harder for "crazy people" to buy guns.

which is what you implied you want in the post I replied to.

[smoogatz]

47. I can only think of one reliable way to do that.

Ban them.

[piedmont]

48. Sure, create a bonanza for the black market. Tell me...

Do drug-dealers check i.d. to make sure they don't sell to minors?

[smoogatz]

49. Oh no! A black-market bonanza! What could be worse?

Oh, yeah--13,000 gun homicides a year.

[piedmont]

55. False dichotomy

13,000 wouldn't be saved by banning handguns. They weren't in the U.K.-- the murderers just got guns from the black market or switched to knives.

With an unregulated black market you get unregulated availability of the thing you want to control. Didn't work with alcohol. Didn't work with drugs.

[smoogatz]

56. And the chaos we have now?

How's that working for you?

[piedmont]

57. Again, if the "solution" doesn't solve the problem, it's worse than doing nothing.

Are you willing to surrender liberty for something that won't make you safer?

[smoogatz]

59. What liberty is it that I would be surrendering?

My right to pretend I'm a cowboy?

[jmg257]

61. Naa - the right to self-defense, the right to keep and bear arms.

Its OK that you don't enjoy those liberties; being based on an unalienable right, they are of such a nature that they can not be surrendered or deprived, even if you wanted them to be.

[smoogatz]

64. In what way would banning handguns deprive me of my RTKBA?

I own a 20-gauge shotgun; highly effective for killing clay pigeons and home defense. What the fuck do I--or anyone--need handguns for?

[piedmont]

76. The right to possess a handgun, of course.

[jmg257]

58. Prohibition showed what a disaster it is to ban an object in attempt to control behavior.

It was terribly ineffective, and caused the opposite results of those desired - and at an very expensive cost.

"...
Second, consumption of alcohol actually rose steadily after an initial drop. Annual per capita consumption had been declining since 1910, reached an all-time low during the depression of 1921, and then began to increase in 1922. Consumption would probably have surpassed pre-Prohibition levels even if Prohibition had not been repealed in 1933.<6> Illicit production and distribution continued to expand throughout Prohibition despite ever-increasing resources devoted to enforcement.<7>
...
Third, the resources devoted to enforcement of Prohibition increased along with consumption. Heightened enforcement did not curtail consumption.
...
America had experienced a gradual decline in the rate of serious crimes over much of the 19th and early 20th centuries. That trend was unintentionally reversed by the efforts of the Prohibition movement. The homicide rate in large cities increased from 5.6 per 100,000 population during the first decade of the century to 8.4 during the second decade when the Harrison Narcotics Act, a wave of state alcohol prohibitions, and World War I alcohol restrictions were enacted. The homicide rate increased to 10 per 100,000 population during the 1920s, a 78 percent increase over the pre-Prohibition period.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-157.html
*****************

Sounds awful familiar to the gun status here - ownership is decreasing, crime rates have been declining, (with a recent increase). All the while we KNOW who the majority of violent gun offenders are in this country (60-80% are repeat gun offenders); it makes more sense to deal with them conclusivley, then trying to control their reprehensible behavior via handguns.

[smoogatz]

66. I think it's a question of what a truly civilized society would do.

If we happened to be one, which we do not. Only in America would it ever be illegal to buy a drink but perfectly okay to buy a full auto tommy-gun, as it was during the early years of prohibition. Of course we ban lots of things in "an attempt to control behavior." Most people aren't allowed to own dynamite, for instance--that's the result of a relatively successful attempt on the part of the government to keep people from blowing stuff up with dynamite. Ditto .50-caliber machine guns, plutonium, and nuclear submarines. The problem seems to be attempting to ban something popular, like drugs, alcohol, and probably handguns. I don't think banning the sale/resale, manufacture or import of handguns would solve all of our problems, but I do think the bulk of the evidence suggests it would decrease the homicide rate significantly. Certainly, flooding the country with them hasn't done us a lot of good.

[Cant trust em]

77. Mutually Assured Destruction, but with handguns

The NRA argument seems to be that if everyone is armed then we'll see crime drop across the board since I ,as a criminal, wouldn't want to stick up someone knowing that they would have a gun. I wouldn't rob someone's store/house if I knew that they had a gun. It seems to me that this is a lot like the cold war arms race between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. Didn't we see the futility in this? By now we all know that sooner or later that the tidal wave is going to crash upon us.

[jmg257]

41. They also let bad people victimize the helpless - that is why we need less. , or at least

MAKE SURE the bad guys are under the same control - Good luck wih that!

[mikelewis]

43. Actually, hate kills people... the instrument is irrelevant.

Forbidding people to own a gun is not the answer... teaching them that resorting to violence,in any manner, will go farther to solve any gun control issues America has. That fucking asshole in Virginia killed 30+ people with a gun... that fucking asshole in the White House has killed 650,000 people with a lie... we don't need gun control... we need murder control.

[smoogatz]

51. The instrument is clearly very relevant, indeed.

To the extent that some instruments allow us to kill a lot of people very quickly, at relatively low cost.

[mikelewis]

62. A person could poison food and easily kill as many people...

...maybe more. A driver could ram a bus off the road... a lunatic serial killer could easily kill more than 30 people with his bare hands without getting caught... hell, even in the first murder story in the Bible, Cain killed Able... not with a gun... with a bone. I could fill a room up with guns and walk around completely confident not one of those things intends to kill me.... fill up a room with other humans and I'm not as confident. Yes, the nature of a gun is evil... it's intent is evil... it exists only to take life but so does a stick in the hands of one dead set on murder. I don't like guns but guns aren't the problem... we have a murder problem. If you take away a gun, a person set on murder will find another way... if you take away the option of murder... you take away any power the gun may wield.

[smoogatz]

65. Fine sentiments, indeed.

Unfortunately, completely untrue. Countries with fewer guns have lower homicide rates. There's a direct correlation between the ease with which a firearm can be acquired and the average person's willingness to use it to kill you (that average person is statistically twice as likely to be a family member or acquaintance than a stranger, btw).

[Cant trust em]

70. More creativity is needed

True, a truly crazy person will find another way. But you need to be a lot more creative to poison a massive food supply. A gun makes it nice, quick, easy, impersonal. Stabbing someone with a knife is very personal. You have to get right up in their face and shove that into their heart. A gun can be done from far away and you never really have to get close.

[Fla Dem]

50. Knives don't kill, people do.......

Ya and how many of the 32 people would still be alive today if Cho had a knife instead of a gun. Probably all of them.

[RL3AO]

60. The day the Dems ban all hand guns

is the day the Dems can kiss the next 5 elections goodbye.

[mikelewis]

63. Why?

[benEzra]

80. Because 40 to 80 MILLION pissed off voters would have a few things

to say about it at the polls.

Merely raising prices on handgun magazines in 1994, and requiring some cosmetic changes to new civilian rifles, cost the House AND Senate in '94, as well as the '00 presidency. Care to speculate on how an actual ban would fly?

There are approximately 40 million handgun owners in this country, and 80 million gun owners total. There are approximately 16 million hunters. If you think there would be a backlash against an absolute ban on all hunting, compare those numbers; the backlash against a handgun ban would be about two and a half times worse even if only the handgun owners reacted (which is unlikely, given the solidarity among gun owners).

[Pavulon]

67. The sig 550 proves other wise

that is the fully automatic rifle sitting in the home of most males in Switzerland. Oddly enough they do not seem to have the problem with violence we do here. Even though a true "assault rifle" is generally accessible to citizens.

odd

[Cant trust em]

68. Guns ARE inherently dangerous

There is something about the guns do that create the feeling of power that another weapon does not. A gun is the ultimate expression of taking control. That there are more mass shootings than mass stabbings. There is an aura that guns possess that make them used. That's why they are always featured in Hollywood movies.

[Pavulon]

69. In many states

you can buy commercial explosives and blasting caps with a drivers license. You can make two stops to get what you need to make a anfo bomb.

There is a cultural problem that underlies the use of guns. How many people are blown up every year?

A close look at fbi murder statistics shows patterns that must be addressed. Spree shootings are a tiny bit of the real problem.

[Cant trust em]

71. part of the problem

Shooting sprees are only part of the problem because mental health and total raving lunacy is only part of the problem. Clearly most homicides aren't done by guys like Cho and Dylan Klebold but by gang violence and petty criminals. Most of these guys aren't totally nuts like serial killers or mass murderers are.

[Cant trust em]

83. jfkd

ksks

[tjwash]

73. MUST... AVOID.... CLICKING.... FLAMEBAIT.

Damn. Too late.

[Shakespeare]

74. To quote Eddie Izzard, I think the gun helps....

"And the National Rifle Association says that, 'Guns don't kill people, people do,' but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I think just standing there going, 'Bang! Boom! Rat-a-tat! Boom!' That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that…"

;-)

[Cant trust em]

75. The sad truth is...

...that we can expect to see a mass murder like this again within the next 10 years. Let's get off the idea of gun control for a second and assume the political reality of getting all guns off of the street. It ain't gonna happen. Even with the best checks on mental health ever someone crazy is going to get some guns and kill a bunch of people. It's unfortunate that there is something about our society that is inherently violent and obsessive about celebrity and individualism. When you combine a lot of these factors together I can only see this happening again sometime hopefully not too soon.

[Bassic]

81. I agree but,

there's usually no reasoning with gun nuts.