For orion007 (and anyone else who may have missed it): Egypt tombs suggest free men built pyramids

[Adsos Letter]

Egypt tombs suggest free men built pyramids, not slaves

Source: BBC

Tombs discovered near Egypt's great pyramids reinforce the theory they were built by free workers rather than slaves.

The location of the tombs, where workers who built the pyramids of Khufu (Cheops) and Khafre (Chephren) are buried, suggests they were not slaves.

The tombs, made from bricks of dried mud, date back 4,500 years.

They are the first to be discovered since the first such workers' tombs were found in 1990.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8451538.stm

[aquart]

1. We knew that from the team writing on the pyramids.

Kinda weird the way they are trying to say these are the first by saying they were the first "since."

How about "recent tomb findings reinforce original 1990 conclusions"? Not sexy enough?

[orion007]

2. I'd love to know how Hawass came to all these conclusions?

He's a great character and I thought he was off chasing Cleopatra and Antony, or maybe that's happening this spring?
I hope he gives a more detailed account of his findings, and this one isn't wishful thinking on his part.
The first thing I thought of was that these tombs might have been given to the architects and overseers of the pyramids, and not the common laborer.

Ados Letter, Do you know anything about the March 1989 accidental discovery at the foot of Cheops of the young royal female mummy that was named the "Smiling Mummy?"
The NYT's carried an front page piece on her I think on March 18 or 19 1989.
She was one of the oldest mummies discovered, had been moved there for safe keeping, I looked over the years for more info. on her and couldn't find anything.
Keep these articles coming, thanks so much!

[Adsos Letter]

5. I don't recall it, but 1989 was the middle of an exceptionally busy time for me

and it would have been easy for me to miss it. I'm not an Egyptologist by any stretch of the imagination. :D

I'm glad you enjoy these posts, orion007! Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you view it) I probably won't be making any more for some time. I'm leaving in a few hours to fly to Philadelphia to spend the remainder of January with my eldest daughter, who is about to graduate from Medical School there. I won't be posting anything on DU during that time.

When I get back (I'm a California guy) I will begin the completion of the last phase of my MA in History (I'm 54, but better late than never) which involves some fairly intense reading, as well as TAing a History course at the university. So; I probably won't be posting much then, either.

We'll see. Another DUer suggested I start a journal, and I just may do so.

Best to you! :hi:

[orion007]

7. Godspeed and may your future be adventerous.

Congratulations to your daughter, and if anything earth shattering is discovered you'll hear about it.
Oh, I giggled when I read Philadelphia,you had just posted on the find in Rafah, the Philadelphia Route.
Take care and thanks again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Best to you and your daughter

from having seen brother's training, the fun just begins for her.

And having earned an MA in history... I know what you speak off.

[intheflow]

11. Yeah!! I want an Adsos Journal!!

I'd love to hear the Wonderful Adventures Eastward/Inward/Upward of Adsos Letter! :D

Not that I believe for a second you'll be able to stay completely offline in either Philly or while completing your MA. Face it, Dude: you're addicted!! :rofl:

Have fun in PA, I can't wait to see what you shoot there! :hi:

[Adsos Letter]

14. Hey you! Yeah, your probably right about staying entirely celibate with DU

but that journal thing is sounding better and better the more I ruminate on it. :)

In any case, I have a date in a few hours with Gordon Wood's The Creation of the American Republic, 1776-1787, followed by his Empire of Liberty: A History of the Early Republic, 1789-1815.

Philadelphia will be the PERFECT place to engross myself in these; I recently finished Washington's Crossing by David Hackett Fischer, as well, and I am SO primed for this trip!

Hope yer doing well! :hug:

[intheflow]

16. What, you're still up?!

I thought you had an early morning flight! Well, I guess it's not too late in Cali.

My early American history lust was recently sated by finally reading Sarah Vowell's book The Wordy Shipmates. Though right now I'm on a sci-fi/canine non-fiction reading kick. Aaaaaah! They joys of being out of grad school when one can pick and choose their reading!

Safe travels, Friend! :hug:

[Adsos Letter]

17. I'm heading there now, intheflow. And hey, it's only 10:30, and I don't have to get up til 3:45

:D

Thanks, intheflow. :hug:

[greyl]

3. The evidence keeps stacking up.

From 2002:

Archaeological digs in the neighborhood of the Egyptian pyramids have brought forth evidence that the builders of the pyramids were just ordinary citizen-workers, not slaves, as popularly imagined. The slave-worker myth, first suggested in Exodus, has been perpetuated for centuries in art, literature, and motion pictures, but it was put to challenge in Daniel's Beyond Civilization. For more details: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0805_020805_giza.html

http://www.ishmael.org/Education/Science/

[orion007]

4. Thank you Grey!

I missed this in 2002, and couldn't grasp the latest article from Hawass.
My attention is too focused on Mummies.
Apologies to Hawass..I thought his imagination was running away with him. lol

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Well that is also due to a mistranslation

I believe on purpose, of the word abadim. It does not mean slave, as it is usually translated, but covee labor... which fits this like a glove.

Of course evidence is also stacking that Hebrews were not that damn common in Egypt and that this little story called Exodus perhaps is more myth than reality. And that it has far more to do with seventh century BCE politics than 13th century BCE construction projects.

Of course this goes down like lead among religious jews. Exodus is a matter of faith... and not to be doubted... so is Sinai... it is an article of faith. So I do expect a soon to come conflict between the secular archeologists and the fundies.

(and it has led to some funny exchanges with my increasingly fundie brother too... you should know I will burn in hell for having my secular doubts, never mind classic Judaism does not a hell have)

[Adsos Letter]

9. It's already started. Have you read any of either Israel Finkelstein's or William Dever's works?

compared with J.K. Hoffmeier, or Kenneth Kitchen?

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. I think I am working over Finkelstein

among the thousand other projects. (It is also a fascinating read for the science fiction or fantasy writer)

[Adsos Letter]

15. and I could add to my above brief list any of the post-structuralists

of the "Sheffield School," such as Phillip Davies. Lots of arguing going on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Well I am not shocked or surprised

the Exodus is the singular national event in Judaism. IT IS what makes Jews the chosen people. Oy vey, if that goes away... and add to that some genetic testing making Taliban and Jews probably related... I mean that is the end of the world I tell ya...

:hi:

It is also the pillar of the other two major western religions. So this IS a major thing.

Perhaps, and I know I am dreaming, we may finally evolve... away from fanaticism...

[orion007]

10. Did you ever read the "Book of J" by

Harold Bloom?
In my wild imagination I have Moses with the Ramses the firsts daughter, she's Seti's sister and Ramses the Seconds aunt.
She's the one on Mt.Sinai as the law and Moses is the law-giver.
Lotsa passion between them when those chakras started spinning when they met.
Check out Bloom's book if you haven;t read it,was food for my soul and of all the contemporary writers he's the closest to my truth.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Will have to add it to the to read stack

[Ozymanithrax]

19. We should also remember that Pharaoh was a God, and the builders were doing God's work.

And, yes, there were no Jews in Egypt at the building of the Pyramids. We have known for a long time that the tombs in the Valley of the Kings were built by free men. They even had their own city that goes by the modern name of Deir el-Medina. It is not surprising to find that other ancient structures used free men as labor.

But if we think about it, economically it would have been very difficult to maintain a large population of slaves to do something like build pyramids that returned nothing to the economy; tourism not being a viable industry much before the 18th century. Much easier to make building pyramids part of what each person owed God and Government.