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Another Flght 253 passenger comes forward with info she gave the FBI

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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:36 PM
Original message
Another Flght 253 passenger comes forward with info she gave the FBI
Passenger says someone filmed the whole flight and that the FBI is looking for him.:shrug:


snip

Further suggestions of an accomplice came from another passenger, Patricia Keepman, who says she saw a man calmly filming the whole flight - including the attempted detonation.

Mrs Keepman was travelling back from Ethiopia with her husband, daughter and two newly adopted children, and was sitting around 20 rows back from Abdulmutallab.

The other man 'sat up and videotaped the entire thing, very calmly. We do know that the FBI is looking for him intensely,' she said.




The same article updates what is happening with Haskell's story -

snip

A Dutch military police spokesman said: 'At this moment we have no information on whether there was another guy. We are checking all clues and information we get.'

He said the Dutch counter-terrorism agency was reviewing CCTV recordings to check out the accomplice story.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1238802/The-boy-grew-bomber-Flight-chaos-investigators-check-London-links.html



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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. The whole filming thing is odd
the whole story is so odd. Filming isn't a normal human thing to do in a situation like this is it? I mean if the bomber were to be successful, then any recording device would be destroyed. So what would be the sense? The only options I see for the average person in a situation like this is either kiss your ass good bye or stop the guy from succeeding. But filming it?
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. exactly. The film would be destroyed, unless he was transmitting it via email
simultaneously.
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. or if they believed it to be a dry run or a training op
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. If he was using a video camera with an SD card, the card would survive in the camera
It would certainly survive the blast and shock of hitting the ground.

If there was a fire, it would be destroyed. But a big fire was sort of unlikely, since the plane would be landing with largely empty fuel tanks.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
53. But you can't control who would pick that up.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I honestly don't think they were trying to bring that plane down
or they wouldn't have waited until it was landing.

I think they wanted to cause the maximum amount of pandemonium while testing out a new device.

Unfortunately, the squirrel with the camera got away with a lot of very valuable stuff, at least to men who are trying to perfect mayhem.

The bomber has got to be feeling like a chump about now. I hope he sings.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Good post
Maybe someone knew the explosive wouldn't work
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
39. I think they need to chase down everybody who boarded that plane
in Nigeria, especially.

I also hope they've used kindness on this chump. It'll make him sing a lot louder than slapping his bandages will.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Exactly
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. me either.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. They could have tested it on the ground, no?
Edited on Thu Dec-31-09 03:10 PM by notadmblnd
That's another thing that is odd. It's soooooo amateurish as to be borderline comical. Attempting to set off an explosive with acid when the known explosive requires a blasting cap to set off. Not making sure it would work in advance? No word on the terrorist hollering out the "god is great" phrase that is normally used before these fools attempt martyrdom. I kinda thought it was a requirement of religious zealots of mid eastern decent? These are the same people that conducted 911?

I think a group of middle schoolers could do a better job of it.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Check the PETN MSDS
"Materials to Avoid (Incompatibilities): Corrosives--strong acids and strong bases or alkalis)."

Like I said in my original post on this cluster fuck, if this is the best Al Qaeda's top bombmaker could do we have nothing to fear from Al Qaeda.
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Strikes Me As Another Failure Of The System......
every person on that flight should have been detained, isolated, fingerprinted and questioned before they let them go. I can't believe that the FBI didn't do this. If someone was really an accomplice they might have ferreted him/her out in the process. Now whomever that was is gone.

Which makes me believe that this thing might have been staged. Not intended to bring the plane down - but to sufficiently instill fear again in the American people - which will be fueled by the RW and the Media. The other result is to further discredit the Obama administration - perhaps to send a warning to ObamaCo - not to mess with ?????? what?

Simply speculation on my part - but this whole incident seemed odd to me from the start.

Also - there was a blond chick on the plane that has been interviewed a couple of times now. She was too poised and articulate to be just a person that happened to be on the flight. When I first heard her - she sounded better than the woman newsperson that was interviewing her. She just seemed too polished and rehearsed.

I guess I'm just too paranoid after the laat 8 years of BushCo. Sorry.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
30. I agree that every one ought to have been printed and detained.
According to the Haskells they had the longest interview which was 15 minutes eveyone else's interview was only 5 minutes. How much info can you get in 5 minutes???
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
37. Produced and Directed by Cheney's CIA? That's not too far fetched...n/t
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
52. All the terrorists have to do is pretend to blow something up once a year or so
and they'll bankrupt us with fear reactions.

They know that they really don't have to kill themselves any more.

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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. A chump with burns in really bad places
I hope he sings, too.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
44. The landing, so I've heard, and the takeoff,
are the most vulnerable time for planes-- close to the ground; if something happens it makes it harder to recover.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
54. Maybe the young alleged terrorist was nervous and
couldn't quite bring himself to do it until the last moment.
It's not like a suicide bomber would get a lot of experience in that sort of thing, if you get my drift.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Unless you knew it was never going to actually happen.
This whole thing stinks to high heaven!
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I'm not buying 90% of this story
Just too odd.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. That was my first thought, too. Strange.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. as a photographer, my instincts in freaky situations are to sit still and "record" -->
also, i think there's a bit of human nature (especially with young people) that we don't actually believe that the extraordinary is actually happening while it's happening. in order to acknowledge the weirdness of a situation, we often must review the footage.

As with 9/11 -- I was working in an airport that day (my job that day was to roam the airport and offer support/comfort to stranded travelers), and everyone was grounded, watching the tube, trying to figure out what was going on. Even after the towers fell people didn't have a grasp of the situation. No one spoke -- they just watched the TVs. Even outside taking smoke breaks, no one had anything to say -- we were waiting for someone else to explain what we had just witnessed in pictures.

All that to say, it would totally be my instinct to keep a camera trained on the action. It would keep me calm, and detached, and out of the way. That's just me.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. and if you did survive, what would you do with the video?
would you take it to the FBI or sit quietly back and wait for them to find you?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
40. TOTALLY! that's one of many the Lynchian things about this --> who was the well-dressed man?
Where'd the video go? Who was the photographer? Why a flight to Detroit (of all places)?

I agree, none of it adds up, and the more you scratch the surface the weirder it gets. Above, I'm just saying that I recognize the impulse to detach through a lens -- and to believe that that would be as important a contribution as beating the hell out of the guy (which I clearly can't do).
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. You would be amazed at what one can do when facing death.
Don't sell yourself short.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
48. here's a news story about two videos that have been collected by FBI -->
Edited on Fri Jan-01-10 01:23 PM by nashville_brook
Passenger videos may aid case against Flight 253 terrorist suspect

http://detnews.com/article/20091231/METRO/912310430/Passenger-videos-may-aid-case-against-Flight-253-terrorist-suspect

Federal officials investigating the Christmas Day attempt to blow up Northwest Airlines Flight 253 to Detroit have obtained at least two videos taken by passengers.

The videos are part of the growing mountain of evidence in the case, which already includes eyewitness accounts, the remnants of the explosive device seized from the defendant, and statements made by the defendant to the FBI and others, a person familiar with the case said Wednesday.

The source gave no indication of what the other video or videos showed.

(more at link - altho there's not much more on the videos)

something else that i found that's interesting is this written statement from the tax attorney, Kurt Haskell who witnessed the "sharp dressed man" helping the bomber get past security without a passport -- here, he details yet another weird data point involving yet another mysterious man (man dressed in orange) who was alerted on by bomb-sniffing dogs, but also seems to have slipped into the twilight zone of the federal investigation (this statement is in an Examiner story by a "citizen journalist" named Michelle Groat whose weblog links to Michelle Malkin, the Heritage Foundation, and possibly satan himself - so a BIG FWIW):


Detailed here are Kurt Haskell’s original statements regarding his experience on Christmas Day.
Listed below is an updated commentary by Mr. Haskell as to the cover-up that is suspected in the terrorist attack on Northwest flight 253:
“Today is the second worst day of my life after 12-25-09. Today is the day that I realized that my own country is lying to me and all of my fellow Americans. Let me explain.

Ever since I got off of Flight 253 I have been repeating what I saw in US Customs. Specifically, 1 hour after we left the plane, bomb sniffing dogs arrived. Up to this point, all of the passengers on Flight 253 stood in a small area in an evacuated luggage claim area of an airport terminal. During this time period, all of the passengers had their carry on bags with them. When the bomb sniffing dogs arrived, 1 dog found something in a carry on bag of a 30 ish Indian man. This is not the so called "Sharp Dressed" man. I will refer to this man as "The man in orange". The man in orange, who stood some 20ft away from me the entire time until he was taken away, was immediately taken away to be searched and interrogated in a nearby room. At this time he was not handcuffed. When he emerged from the room, he was then handcuffed and taken away. At this time an FBI agent came up to the rest of the passengers and said the following (approximate quote) "You all are being moved to another area because this area is not safe. I am sure many of you saw what just happened (Referring to the man in orange) and are smart enough to read between the lines and figure it out." We were then marched out of the baggage claim area and into a long hallway. This entire time period and until we left customs, no person that wasn't a law enforcement personnel or a passenger on our flight was allowed anywhere on our floor of the terminal (or possibly the entire terminal) The FBI was so concerned during this time, that we were not allowed to use the bathroom unless we went alone with an FBI agent, we were not allowed to eat or drink, or text or call anyone. I have been repeating this same story over the last 5 days. The FBI has, since we landed, insisted that only one man was arrested for the airliner attack (contradicting my account). However, several of my fellow passengers have come over the past few days, backed up my claim, and put pressure on FBI/Customs to tell the truth. Early today, I heard from two different reporters that a federal agency (FBI or Customs) was now admitting that another man has been held (and will be held indefinitely) since our flight landed for "immigration reasons." Notice that this man was "being held" and not "arrested", which was a cute semantic ploy by the FBI to stretch the truth and not lie.

Just a question, could that mean that the man in orange had no passport?

However, a few hours later, Customs changed its story again. This time, Mr. Ron Smith of Customs, says the man that was detained "had been taken into custody, but today tells the news the person was a passenger on a different flight." Mr. Ron Smith, you are playing the American public for a fool. Lets take a look at how plausible this story is (After you've already changed it twice). For the story to be true, you have to believe, that:

1. FBI/Customs let passengers from another flight co-mingle with the passengers of flight 253 while the most important investigation in 8 years was pending. I have already stated that not one person who wasn't a passenger or law enforcement personnel was in our area the entire time we were detained by Customs.
2. FBI/Customs while detaining the flight 253 passengers in perhaps the most important investigation since the last terrorist attack, and despite not letting any flight 253 passenger drink, eat, make a call, or use the bathroom, let those of other flights trample through the area and possibly contaminate evidence.
3. You have to believe the above (1 and 2) despite the fact that no flights during this time allowed passengers to exit off of the planes at all and were detained on the runway during at least the first hour of our detention period.
4. You have to believe that the man that stood 20 feet from me since we entered customs came from a mysterious plane that never landed, let its passengers off the plane and let this man sneak into our passenger group despite having extremely tight security at this time (i.e. no drinking even).
5. FBI/Customs was hauling mysterious passengers from other flights through the area we were being held to possibly comtaminate evidence and allow discussions with suspects on Flight 253 or to possibly allow the exchange of bombs, weapons or other devices between the mysterious passengers from other flights and those on flight 253.
Seriously Mr. Ron Smith, how stupid do you think the American public is?
Mr. Ron Smith's third version of the story is an absolute inplausible joke. I encourage you, Mr. Ron Smith, to debate me anytime, anywhere, and anyplace in public to let the American people see who is credible and who is not.
I ask, isn't this the more plausible story:
1. Customs/FBI realized that they screwed up and don't want to admit that they left flight 253 passengers on a flight with a live bomb on the runway for 20 minutes.
2. Customs/FBI realized that they screwed up and don't want to admit that they left flight 253 passengers in customs for 1 hour with a live bomb in a carry on bag.
3. Customs/FBI realize that the man in orange points to a greater involvement then the lone wolf theory that they have been promoting.
Mr. Ron Smith I encourage you to come out of your cubicle and come up with a more plausible version number 4 of your story."

Kurt Haskell continued his story with another post on MLive.com:

"For the last five days I have been reporting my story of the so called "sharp dressed man." For those of you who haven't read my account, it involves a sharp dressed "Indian man" attempting to talk a ticket agent into letting a supposed "Sudanese refugee" (The terrorist) onto flight 253 without a passport. I have never had any idea how it played out except to note that the so called "Sudanese reefugee" later boarded my flight and attempted to blow it up and kill me. At no time did my story involve, or even find important whether the terrorist actually had a passport. The importance of my story was and always will be, the attempt with an accomplice (apparently succesful) of a terrorist with all sorts of prior terrorist warning signs to skirt the normal passport boarding procedures in Amsterdam. By the way, Amsterdam security did come out the other day and admit that the terrorist did not have to "Go through normal passport checking procedures".
Amsterdam security, please define to the American public "Normal passport boarding procedures".

You see the FBI would have the American public believe that what was important was whether the terrorist in fact had a passport.

Seriously think about this people. You have a suicide bomber who had recently been to Yemen to but a bomb, whose father had reported him as a terrorist, who supposedly was on some kind of U.S. terror watchlist, and most likely knew the U.S. was aware of these red flags. Yet, he didn't go through "Normal passport checking procedures." What does that mean? Maybe that he flashed a passport to some sort of sympathetic security manager in a backroom to avoid a closer look at the terrorist's "red flags"? What is important is that the terrorist avoided using normal passport checking procedures (apparently successfully) in order to avoid a closer look into his red flags. Who cares if he had a passport. The important thing is that he didn't want to show it and somehow avoided a closer inspection and "normal passport checking procedures." Each passport comes with a bar code on it that can be scanned to provide a wealth of information about the individual. I would bet that the passport checking procedures for the terrorist did not include a bar code scan of his passport (which could have revealed damning information about the terrorist).

Please note that there is a very easy way to verify the veracity of my prior "sharp dressed man" account. Dutch police have admitted that they have reviewed the video of the "sharp dressed man" that I referenced. Note that it has not been released anywhere, You see, if my eye witness account is false, it could easily be proven by releasing the video. However, the proof of my eyewitness account would also be verified if I am telling the truth and I am. There is a reason we have only heard of the video and not seen it. Dutch authorities, "RELEASE THE VIDEO!" This is the most important video in 8 years and may be all of two minutes long. Show the entire video and "DO NOT EDIT IT"! The American public deserves its own chance to attempt to identify the "sharp dressed man". I have no doubt that if the video indicated that my account was wrong, that the video would have already swept over the entire world wide web.
Instead of the video, we get a statement that the video has been viewed and that the terrorist had a passport. Each of these statements made by the FBI is a self serving play on semantics and each misses the importance of my prior "sharp dressed man" account. The importance being that the man "Tried to board the plane with an accomplice and without a passport". The other significance is that only the airport security video can verify my eyewitness account and that it is not being released.

Who has the agenda here and who doesn't? Think about that for a minute."


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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. But wouldn't you turn in your film after the event if you knew
it might be useful to the investigation? As far as I know whoever that person was hasn't come forward yet. Otoh, knowing how the US treats 'suspects', even an innocent person might be reluctant to get involved.

One more thing, if the witness saw this person, she could probably point out what seat he was in. How difficult is it to look at who was sitting in what seat? Even if she couldn't identify the exact seat, why not talk to everyone who was seated in the area where she saw this person?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
41. wow, that's a good point -- maybe the person was afraid to come forward for fear
of getting on a terror list or something. Maybe the person tried to come forward and the film/video was lost in the same way the erstwhile bomber's CIA dossier was lost once at Langely.

The plot thickens.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Some might react that way but doesn't it seem odd that at least
according to the passenger the guy was filming the entire trip?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
42. actually, that seems more reasonable to me than if he'd only pulled it out during the action.
but, i'm terrified of flying. if i don't have something to do i start to panic.
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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. Two things about that.
First, the woman who saw the person filming said she first saw him standing up at his seat well before the fire, a long time before any action started at all. That's why it struck her as odd because there was nothing to film, just a boring plane flight.

Second, if you were just an average person filming and knew the FBI was looking for your video, you would make yourself known. Every day that goes by without that happening is more and more incriminating.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
47. i did not know that the person was standing before the conflagration -- that's completely
strange. but what's stranger to me is the totality of the story, in that it seems like there's all the witnesses waving their arms saying "hey, we saw X, Y and Z -- and we have all this information, but no one seems to be able to compile it." to me, it seems like something is standing in the way of that information coming together, the same way the Nigerian's CIA file was ignored. Like, getting to the bottom of this should be as easy as falling down on slippery stairs, but somehow, something that isn't happening.

it's starting to remind me of a David Lynch film, or an episode of the X-Files, in that the mystery of the narrative now has a larger life than the truth of the event.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. I don't agree. I think it's perfectly understandable that someone would do that.
Edited on Thu Dec-31-09 03:04 PM by Pithlet
OMG, something unbelievable is happening. Quick, gotta grab the (insert recording device here) and get this. There would have been no time to process what exactly was going on. No time to think "The plane's going to explode, no point in recording this". In fact, I read the account of someone else who was on this plane, and right after it happened he was telling the others he thought the guy was trying to bring the plane down, and they didn't believe it. They were in some sort of strange denial at the time.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Well I asked if it was human nature, to me, I didn't think so.
But I suppose there are those that have their video devices at their side with them all the times and just whip them out casually on airplanes when they're traveling. I don't know, I just figured if I were facing imminent death on a plane- there would be other things to think about.:shrug:
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. The odd thing IMO is that she said he was filming the entire trip not just
this incident. And if this guy was filming and there was an innocent explanation why wouldn't he tell the FBI? Its hard to know what to believe.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Strange. But he could have been playing around with a new toy.
Who knows? Someone had a recording device on a plane is not all that unusual. In fact, it would be expected. He might have ditched it in panic when they started corralling everyone for questioning.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Why ditch it? Wouldn't that be destroying evidence? They know who was on the plane
so he will tracked down.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Panic. I'm not saying that's what happened. I have no idea what happened.
Edited on Thu Dec-31-09 03:35 PM by Pithlet
I'm just saying there could be multiple explainations. I don't think it automatically points to conspiracy. In fact, seems to me if he were in it on it, wouldn't he be a bit more secretive about it. Standing up and filming openly for all to see like that? During the whole flight? Why would someone in on it do that? That doesn't seem very likely to me.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. That's another reason why I think they were just trying to get rid of him
It's like the AQ people, or whoever sent him on this mission, wanted proof he had been arrested.

Next issue: you've got Passenger A sitting on the plane. You've got Passenger B videotaping him. This apparently started at the beginning of the flight. RAF Mildenhall in England could have taken this plane, as could Thule Air Base in Greenland. They could have landed in Iceland. They could have turned the fucking plane around and returned to Amsterdam. There were LOTS of opportunities to get these two into the hands of the authorities.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
46. Actually....
Filming isn't a normal human thing to do in a situation like this is it?


I think it's a pretty common reaction nowadays from people to pull out their cellphones or videos and film events going on around them. That said, if the person's motives were innocent why hasn't he come forward?
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. Curiouser and curiouser. Thanks for posting this.
nt
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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. Who would videotape something when they knew........
that they would die and there was a very good chance that the camera would be smashed to smithereens.
Doesn't pass the smell test.
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HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
17. I've filmed things en flight..scuffles..people acting strangely..drunks..just yesterday
Edited on Thu Dec-31-09 03:04 PM by HipChick
while flying over the Caribbean, was filming the still spewing active Soufriere Hills volcano on Montserrat Island...I caught something interesting going on the row across from me as I panned back from the right side of plane..a lot of flights I've been on, people have cameras out,camera cellphones in non-flight mode or with Wi-Fi equipped planes exchanging web cams back and forth...It wouldn't be that usual to me to see someone taking photos or filming if some sort of scuffle was going on..keep in mind that range of vision while seated is going to be limited +/- a few seats ahead or behind...I'm all for a good conspiracy, but this isn't passing the smell test..
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. I don't understand this.
Witnesses to a crime don't just walk away from the plane. That doesn't happen. They debrief these people when they come off of the plane, they know who was on the plane. It would seem only logical that if this were true, then the person filming would be in custody or they would at least be watching that person.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. or, that person work for the authorities.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. I agree. Also wouldn't this woman have told pointed out the guy to the FBI
when they landed? It's possible he was questioned but didn't tell the FBI he was filming and the FBI let him leave. According to the Haskells most of the passengers were only questionned for about 5 minutes each whereas the FBI questioned them 15 minutes. Maybe the FBI let someone slip through because they assumed the case was basically closed because they had the bomber.
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metapunditedgy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
33. There are plenty of bad reasons for taping.
Perhaps AlQ (or whomever) wants footage of what went wrong in case the attempt failed, so they can "fix it" next time. Perhaps it's to motivate the bomber not to chicken out, because he knows he's being taped if he fails. Etc.

That said, I don't know what's going on.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
34. This One Smells Big Time...
Unless he had a hidden camera, I can't see him being able to roll during landing and take-off...he surely would have been noticed not only by the flight attendants but also from other passengers who would have recalled the attendant telling him to put the thing away. A few years ago I pulled out my camera on a flight and was told by the flight attendant there was no photography of any type taken aboard the ENTIRE flight. No doubt that if there was a second "terrorists"...especially one trying to document what was going on, it'd be getting a lot more play with more than one witness.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. i just flew to ny, and then to l.a. i took pictures in the plane....video out the window
Edited on Thu Dec-31-09 03:37 PM by spanone
no problem :shrug:

not international flights, maybe that's the difference?
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. This Was Domestic
I think it was on American Airlines. This was several years back...might have been a special regulation or maybe a cranky flight attendant. For certain, they will come around and if you're futzing with anything electronic during take off or landing, they will ask you to shut it off...especially something as big as a camera (considering its not a camera in a cellphone).
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. I shot video last week
...The day after Christmas. Right out the window during landing. About three minutes' worth. No one said a thing.

Earlier in the same flight a flight attendant took a photo of my family for me, as it was the kiddo's first flight. :shrug:
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
50. Hmm in the article at the link it says that in order to detonate
Edited on Fri Jan-01-10 04:43 PM by walldude
the man had a chemical in a syringe that was supposed to be injected into the "bag" with the other chemical to make the explosion. So how in the fuck could it have failed? They are saying it was a failed detonator but if it was just a chemical reaction then why didn't it go off?

Also they can't find the guy with the camera? There were only 250 people on the flight, and someone saw him so they can approximate the seat he was in. Should be pretty simple to find this dude.

I hate to say this but my tin foil hat is buzzing like mad. Something isn't right here.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I'm starting to think we're all being played.
None of this has smelled right from the beginning.
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