Do sociopaths cry at sad movies?

[InvisibleTouch]

With much talk of prominent sociopaths, not the least of whom being the squatter in the White House, I've been curious. We know sociopaths are defined by having no empathy for others. But can they work themselves into an emotional state over a fictional scenario? Can they, perhaps, cry at sad movies (precisely because it's "not real," and thus "safe" to feel) and then order the deaths of hundreds without batting an eye?

[WI_DEM]

1. probably best to address this question to Bush and/or Cheney.

[InvisibleTouch]

4. Yeah, but seeing as they don't post here...

...I was wondering if anyone had any first-hand-account experience as a witness. :)

[WI_DEM]

6. well I would suggest e-mailing the white house.

[IronScorpio5]

2. uhhhhhh.....i wonder how many sociopaths will respond here ?

:shrug:

[InvisibleTouch]

5. Heh. :)

No, I wasn't really expecting a bunch of people to pop up and say "Well I'm a sociopath, and I do/don't!" But I know there are people who have had such family members, and might be able to give some insight.

[YOY]

3. Sociiopaths believe that only they are important right?

So maybe if it's a movie about them themselves?

[tjwash]

7. Iraq WMD's was a fictional scenario that they sure got worked up over.

And they do have empathy. Don't you see how they have been stamping their little feet and crying because their poor defense contractor friends aren't getting more of the national budget?

[Marrah_G]

8. If it is adventagous for them to do so, then sure.

[annabanana]

9. They laugh.. Nothing amuses them more than someone else's

pain & suffering.

[Selatius]

10. They ought to learn how to cry if they want to mask their true identity.

They do well as bean counters. If you asked somebody to nuke 250,000 civilians to save 1,000,000 of your soldiers from dying, you should make sure you ask a sociopath if you want your answer quick. He'll make the decision immediately, no reflection, no humanity, no feeling. For him, it's just a calculation. There is no remorse there.

[Bobbie Jo]

11. Only if....

Something is to be gained from the act. Anti-socials only mirror displays of empathy from observation. If a true sociopath cries at a sad movie, it's to serve a purpose. :evilgrin:

[jollyreaper2112]

12. venturing my 2 cents here

I think that any diagnosis of human behavior has to be taken on a continuum rather than distinct A, B, C classifications. Therefore, I think it's overly simplified to say all people with sociopathic tendancies are this or all are that; rather, behaviors tend to be clustered and you can infer that if someone is a sociopath, one or more of the following behaviors should be present.

Ok, all that being said, I think it depends. Soliphism is the idea that your own mind and your own being is the only reality, everything else is imaginary (paraphrasing here.) For the sociopath, it's not a denial of reality but a denial of value. People are talking furniture. A chair will sit in the corner and be a chair for you with little difficulty. People require more effort but can be put to more elaborate uses. But the sociopath would never respect a human as an equal and never develop affection beyond an affable familiarity one might have for a favored tool. The sociopath would be able to mimic all of the right words, emotions, and body language to work with people but the real meanings are lost to him, like a tourist with a phrase book.

Ok, that's one type that's been described. But you also have other types where they can reserve human emotions and feelings for those that are special to them while still preserving a calculating indifference to everyone else. After all, Hitler loved his dog. He felt a great love for the german people and saw his destiny as linked to the nation. But at the same time, it was a selfish love, not a selfless love. The whole "if you love something, set it free" thing may be trite but it is also true. This is a conditional love, "I love what you do for me" and "I love how you make me feel." It is posessive. "I love you but if I can't have you, no one can." Hitler had his dog poisoned before he killed himself. He saw the German people as having betrayed him and the cause rather than owning up to his own responsibility in the disaster. He ordered the smashing of all remaining infrastructure in the country so that the German people would perish, having proven unsuitable for mastery of the world.

I think there is also a question of how functional a sociopath can be. Someone who cares for nothing and is motivated by nothing would tend to just drift through life and make no impact. Someone like Dahmer is driven and passionate about what he does, it takes work to kill that many people. Al Capone had drive. George W. Bush is unusual because his nature would make him be a low-impact sociopath (a son of nobility who would amount to nothing) but circumstances put him in a seat of power men ten times his stature would sacrifice everything to have. A sociopath with poor impulse control would find himself constantly in trouble with the law and never able to go anywhere with his life. (you could call him chaotic evil if you're thinking about it in D&D terms.) Lawful evil would be the ones working within the letter of the law and yet still spreading evil and bile. They're more harmful because they don't flame out as quickly, their ability to rise within society means their harm can be spread far and wide.

So getting back to the original question, "can sociopaths cry?" I remember reading the history of a Prussian king. He was the kind of man who could order thousands to their deaths and yet he wept at the beauty of an opera. I think it all comes down to what's important to the sociopath. I think with some they are able to feel like us but at half-strength. The sociopath could love his mother but decide that the value of her life insurance is worth more to him than the value of her company. (But only something like 4% of sociopaths are even violent so it depends.)

That come anywhere close to an answer? :)

[InvisibleTouch]

20. Thanks for that detailed and thoughtful response!

Yes, that was the kind of speculation and input I was looking for. It's interesting to think they can "love" someone in terms of what the person does for them, but not for the individual's own value. And as someone else pointed out further downthread, a sociopath might be moved to tears by a story that reminded them of their own circumstances - self-pitying tears rather than true empathy. I agree about Dubya, too - in other circumstances he'd have been a non-achiever, hurting those closest to him but not the world at large; it's the role he was given that makes him dangerous.

[jollyreaper2112]

22. yup

I don't know what you would call this personality type but there are others who aren't sociopathic but just can't balance their desires. I'm thinking of the typical example of the man who wants to do right by his family, his wife and kids but keeps falling down. He cares for them but cannot master his own vices for whatever reason. I don't know if they would just call this addictive personality disorder or what. Not a sociopath but causes pain like one.

[InvisibleTouch]

24. And totally off-topic...

...I found it amusing that you used the phrase "if you love something, set it free" in your initial reply - because that's the title of a story I'm currently writing. :)

[IronScorpio5]

13. MORE Anti-Sociopath bigotry ??....when will it end.

just kidding

[jollyreaper2112]

21. Just wait unti. GEICO starts on them

So easy, even a sociopath could do it.

[Sabriel]

14. I read that Hitler was often moved to tears

He would cry at poetry, even.

[Crap_in_a_Hat]

16. What kind of poetry, exactly?

"Throw the Jew down the well... mein gott! It's so beautiful!"

[jollyreaper2112]

23. but also remember

Hitler put up a HUGE cloud of propaganda around himself. Even now, it's still hard to separate fact from fiction. For example, he wasn't a vegetarian. One of his favorite dishes was full of meat. But being a vegetarian was good for propaganda, it made him seem like a holy man. He was certainly not a christian in any traditional sense, his religious views were propably closer to deistic with this huge faith in Providence and Destiny. But the propaganda made him out to be a good christian, played well in the fatherland. By all accounts he was a teatotaler, that wasn't fabricated; he had a bad experience with alcohol early in his life and refused to drink afterwards. He kept his romantic relationships private because he felt that it would play better in public if he were single. If you take a look at Hitler's "candid" photos, you'll see tons of artfully staging; lights are positioned to give him a halo coming out of a church, a visit to a beer hall has 50 eager youths on risers crowding around his table, etc.

So, all that being said, I haven't heard about the poetry thing in particular but it would not surprise me if that were another bit of propaganda, it certainly plays well. Hitler, the philosopher-king.

Anyone else notice similarities between Hitler's personal propaganda and a certain boy-president?

[Crap_in_a_Hat]

15. Makes me think of that scene in "The Untouchables"

Where Al Capone is crying during "Pagliacci" while Sean Connery is murdered on his orders.

[Lars39]

17. I think they take their social cues from others.

If the "correct" thing is to shed tears, they'll shed tears.

[murray hill farm]

18. It depends on who is watching them....

and the benefit they believe they might garner by being seen crying.

[SmokingJacket]

19. Actually I think they do.

I know one, and he does. They can get really worked up if they are reminded of *their own* traumas and lives.

Like Ted Bundy, they can be incredibly sentimental when it comes to themselves.

[woo me with science]

25. Bingo. nt

[porphyrian]

26. Only if they're trying to convince someone they're normal.

From what I understand, sociopaths don't share the same emotional responses most of us have.

[11 Bravo]

27. If others around are crying, they will mimic that behavior ...

in an atempt to appear normal. It's how Bush learned to appear crestfallen when discussing any tragic event. Unfortunately, Bush is not only a sociopath, he is also a dumbass who sometimes forgets. That's why the smirk keeps showing up at the most inappropriate moments.