Time to stop the bickering and unite to FIGHT, to make the reconciliation bill better.

[freddie mertz]

Yes, the Senate legislation is very bad (I could never vote for it myself).

And the House bill is not much better.

But as someone who has argued "kill the bill," I'd like to suggest, in the spirit of Dr. Dean, that the last chapter has yet to be written: Reconciliation.

I will admit that I've given up on Obama and the administration. I presume from their words and actions that they have tossed in the towel on the public option and on any real effort to improve the final bill.

But there are progressives in the House, including 60 who have pledged not to vote for a bill without a public option, who might, just might be persuaded to take up the cause in 11th hour.

Instead of sniping at each other, I suggest we keep our eyes on what unites us: getting this bad legislation changed into something better, if we can.

Write your Senators and Congresspersons.

Fight to the last breath.

And stop the bickering, at least for right now.

[freddie mertz]

1. I don't want to sound like a whiner, but who could possibly oppose

The idea of putting up a final fight?

[Peacetrain]

7. Give em hell freddie..there are things to fight for! K&R

[freddie mertz]

9. Thank you, Peacetrain. Nice to see you aboard.

[FreakinDJ]

2. Agreed - K&R

[WeDidIt]

3. It'll NEVER be better than what Lieberman and Nelson want.

Sorry, but that's cold hard reality.

You need both of their votes to get it past the Senate. If you don't get their votes, you have to go after Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe.

That's the reality of the current situation. No legislation is going to be put forward that is any more progressive than Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman no matter what you want.

Add more Senate seats to the Democratic Caucus, and you'll get more progressive legislation. But with only 60 votes, the most progressive legislation will be no more progressive than the most conservative member of the caucus. With 59 members of the Dem caucus, there will be no more progressive legislation than the most progressive member of the Republican caucus.

That's how the Senate works.

[freddie mertz]

6. That may be true, but fight we must. We must make our views manifest.

There really is no other choice but to fight to make it better, and if we fail, then so be it.

But they will know we are out there, and we will be ready for the next fight.

[WeDidIt]

11. Agreed

but it's about time to start pushing for more progressives in the Senate.

MO, OH, FL, PA, even IN are all possibilities here.

[freddie mertz]

15. Agreed! And don't forget Arkansas.

My brother tells me there is a chance of a primary challenge to Blanche Lincoln.

[dhpgetsit]

18. There are ways to pressure them into voting for it.

There is "The Nuclear Option" in our arsenal. The threat of moving to to The Nuclear Option, plus ending Lieberman's chairmanship might be enough.

Play hardball!

[tbyg52]

48. >>Play hardball!

Nobody has so far, that I've been able to detect. Well, nobody on *our* side, anyway.

[thotzRthingz]

49. Re: "Play hardball"

Agreed, 100%!

And that is precisely what I want the SIXTY HOUSE MEMBERS (who pledged "no public option = no deal") to do! All we need is a handful to INSIST on fulfilling said pledge (but am hoping for ALL of them to do so). If they do that... and no public option comes out of "reconciliation" ... there's no way it will PASS in the HOUSE!

There's also NO WAY that Obama and the U.S. Senate will allow it to fail (i.e., they will have to concede to the HOUSE hardballers).

Keep those calls and emails a flyin' ... we can do this!

[TheKentuckian]

21. AKA we're really fucked all the way down the line

Environment, energy, financial regulation, taxes, education, campaign finance reform, and it goes on and on. We're not going to get a single thing done to any meaningful degree. Lots of window dressing declared as a crucial 1st step that can be improved later.

Later like another Wall St created crash, millions not getting medical attention, drowning and starving polar bears, increasing poverty, more transferring of wealth to the Middle East, and crooked elections, rising sea levels.

We have problems that need to be seriously addressed and "a good start" won't be enough to save our asses. We have very real and fundamental problems that need to be tackled rather than rearranging the deck chairs at high cost.

[WeDidIt]

22. LBJ had 67 members of the Dem Caucus in the Senate

FDR had 70.

And both had a tough slog to get what they wanted, too.

Obama is up against a far higher standard with a much thinner margin for error.

He's played it brilliantly every step of the way and is sqeezing every last bit of what is possible from the entire thing.

It's an amazing thing to watch.

And some want to fuck it up by taking his hammer away (Rahm).

I have to say, though we may think Obama's made mistakes, I think he hasn't made a single mistake yet. IF he had made even one mistake, I think HCR would have been dead right then and there. With only 60 members of the caucus, I don't think there is room for ANY error.

[Teaser]

4. what's to downec here?

who is reccing this down?

[alfredo]

5. K&R Remember, we are Fighting Dems. Let's not fight each other.

[H2O Man]

8. Recommended.

Good message. Thanks.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. The bickering will not stop until the pro-Norquist a-holes don't shut their piehole

That handful of idiots needs to exit this whole debate. They're Republicans in disguise.

[freddie mertz]

12. This is off-topic.

I am trying to emphasize what unites us, which SHOULD be the common good.

We may fail, but hopefully not through lack of trying.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

16. I am merely pointing out what has made it impossible to unite - people like Hamsher and her fans

That is what I'm pointing out. You want us to unite? Tell those anti-Obama, Norquist-loving handful of freaks to disappear.

[freddie mertz]

19. I'm not telling anyone to do anything. Just suggesting another path.

One which might actually have a small chance of doing some good.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

25. Fine. I agree with you. However, the Hamsherites have to shut the F up first.

They've been doing the work of the GOP by attacking Obama like the GOP.

[freddie mertz]

27. The factionalist bickering is a distraction right now.

Divisive and pointless.

There will be plenty of time for recrimination after this is over.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

28. It is, which is why I'm saying the pro-GOPers like Hamsher need to disappear

She needs to go, along with her handful of card-carrying Norquist-lovers. They, and not I, have joined the GOP in their attacks of Obama.

[freddie mertz]

29. Heard you the first time. Not relevant to my theme, which is get back to work.

Besides, I am in position to make anyone "go away," and do not wish to be.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

31. Until you get rid of the anti-Obama, GOP-loving shitheads...

it will not work.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freddie mertz]

39. Not to mention counter-productive.

[Red Knight]

37. Yeah--that'll bring people together

You're either progressive or you aren't.

Clearly, you aren't.

So keep your head you know where and pretend that you've won something or are defending something worth defending.

I'd say that you're in bed with the GOP more than any Hamsher fan.

Good luck with that.

[Xicano]

41. Question:

Is it more republican to support coporatism or to rebuke it? Which is Obama doing?

n/t

[mmonk]

13. I agree. Fight the good fight before it is over.

Here is a way. Give people the backup to improve the final version.

http://yeswestillcan.org/

[freddie mertz]

20. This is a great link. Sign their petition!

And help get the pressure on, folks.

[thotzRthingz]

26. mmonk -- thanks for the PETITON link (signed, emailed to my list, and posted on my web page too)

http://yeswestillcan.org/ :toast:

[mmonk]

33. Thank you for fighting for better.

:toast:

[thotzRthingz]

14. k&r ... it's nice to see at least one other willing to talk about this:

And it would be rather EASY to accomplish, as I have outlined here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7320157

[freddie mertz]

17. Everyone here should check out these links!

THANK YOU.

[thotzRthingz]

23. U GO Freddie ... I'm with you all the way!

Some of what I posted in that other topic, on Christmas Day 2009 (it has long since "aged away")...

*****************
*****************

August 17, 2009

The Honorable Kathleen Sebelius
Secretary, U.S. Department of Health & Human Services
200 Independence Avenue, S.W. Washington, D.C. 20201

Dear Secretary Sebelius,

We write to you concerning your recent comments about the public option in health insurance reform.

We stand in strong opposition to your statement that the public option is "not the essential element" of comprehensive reform. The opportunity to improve access to healthcare is a onetime opportunity. Americans deserve reform that is real-not smoke and mirrors. We cannot rely solely on the insurance companies’ good faith efforts to provide for our constituents. A robust public option is essential, if we are to ensure that all Americans can receive healthcare that is accessible, guaranteed and of high-quality.

To take the public option off the table would be a grave error; passage in the House of Representatives depends upon inclusion of it.

We have attached, for your review, a letter from 60 Members of Congress who are firm in their Position that any legislation that moves forward through both chambers, and into a final proposal for the President’s signature, MUST contain a public option.

Sincerely,Raul Grijalva
Co-Chair
Congressional Progressive Caucus

Lynn Woolsey
Co-Chair
Congressional Progressive Caucus

Barbara Lee
Co-Chair
Congressional Black Caucus


source: http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/17/60-members-of-congress-say-no-public-plan-no-conference

*****************
*****************

Pelosi's hand was forced, by these SIXTY PLUS who were committed to a STRONG PUBLIC OPTION... H.R. 3962 narrowly passed by a vote of 220 to 215. We only need a handful of those SIXTY PLUS to insist on a PUBLIC OPTION to be included in whatever compromise will be sent to OBAMA for signature.

My plea/prayer is a simple one... on this day, let US (you and me) give America the best gift ever:

That is to say: our tireless efforts, petitioning HOUSE MEMBERS and LEADERSHIP to not give in... to INSIST on a PUBLIC OPTION. There's no way OBAMA and the U.S. SENATE will allow this thing to die, they have too much riding on it (especially after celebrating their HISTORIC yet very hollow victory).

Let us each then, call upon HOUSE MEMBERS to insist upon a PUBLIC OPTION.

The HOUSE passed such a proposal... and there are more than 50 votes in the Senate in support of it as well. If we ACT TODAY, petition CONGRESS, and the WHITE HOUSE... and do not give up... all following generations of Americans will enjoy and remember our gift to them.

What say ye?

[freddie mertz]

24. Thanks. This is a terrific post as well.

Why should we give up on activism just as we enter the last round?

[mmonk]

35. Yep. In fact, it is time to be the most active.

[jwirr]

30. That is correct and we had better be gearing up for the fight regarding

the environment also as the repugs have already begun their obstruction. Hopefully Rahm and the President are going to fight for this one.

[Thickasabrick]

34. I've reconciled myself with similar thinking to yours. I'm looking

forward to our congress critters and administration doing something (anything) to win my confidence back.

[glitch]

36. K & R #15 nt

[Xicano]

38. I commend you for your effort, but, here's the problem I have

Uniting with this bill in anyway shape or form just sends the message to these folks that they can get away with anything and the base will always be there even if grudgingly.

I am sorry, but, I have drawn a line in the sand. I will no longer "compromise" because we have already compromised on top of compromise on top of compromise.

¡NO MAS!

¡YA BASTA!



Peace,
Xicano

[freddie mertz]

40. Just trying to make it better, not embracing it.

I won't be a fan of it in any likely manifestation.

But civic duty requires an effort to improve it while that is still possible.

Restoring the PO, while hardly a panacea. will make it easier to expand public healthcare options in the future.

[bvar22]

42. Begrudgingly agree.

I don't think much will change.
The Senate Bill in its current incarnation is going to be forced on America.
It WILL save a handful of lives, but at a terrible cost.

However, I REFUSE to march in the VICTORY parade,
or heap congratulations on the Democrats for "their heroic STAND against the Corporations" as they are now claiming. They didn't.

I won't be able to watch the Signing Ceremony without puking.

I won't help the Democratic Party hang up the "Mission Accomplished" Banner.

This was a major DEFEAT of the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party by the combined efforts of the Republican Party joining with their natural ideological allies, the "Centrist" Democrats.

[freddie mertz]

46. I'm with you in every measure of your disgust.

But we can't let the defeats suffered so far daunt us, at least not yet.

[juno jones]

43. Wanna REALLY help the poor?

Wanna REALLY support community clinics as our backdoor to better things?

Then give them TEETH!

Make sure that equal resources are alloted at every level. Community clinics should do everything in house that a normal clinic does, and any refferrals should be subject to the same sliding fee scale. Make those clinics 100% percent UncleSamgovt owned and not extenstions of the 'faith-based' octopus that is attempting to eat out public education. Fight against any exclusions of gay partners, and any exclusions for women, or discrimination account of age. Make sure the poverty level as measured in this country is brought up to a standard that guarentees a basic income in this country including protections for the worker and make medicare requirements nationally reflect that standard.

No ghettoization of treatment! No double-standard two-tier system!

[KittyWampus]

44. Freddie Mertz, I think I love you. Who do I write to besides my Congresscritters?

[freddie mertz]

45. Good question. Some of the posts above have some useful petition links.

I suppose you could try the White House too, just to keep them on their toes.

I don't think they are listening to the people these days, if they ever were.

But it makes sense to keep applying the pressure anyway, if only to signal that we are still out there.

[thotzRthingz]

47. Kitty -- here's my personal "action list" in support of a PUBLIC OPTION

SIGN THIS: http://yeswestillcan.org
also consider SIGNING THIS: http://www.gopetition.com/online/30846.html

...and repeatedly CALL+WRITE to your elected officials. Here's the CONTACT information for:

the House: https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
contact your Congressional Rep, also contact these key House people:
Nancy Pelosi - Speaker of the House: http://www.speaker.gov/contact/
Raul Grijalva - Co-Chair Congressional Progressive Caucus: http://grijalva.house.gov
Lynn Woolsey - Co-Chair Congressional Progressive Caucus: http://woolsey.house.gov/
Barbara Lee - Co-Chair Congressional Black Caucus: http://lee.house.gov
(the latter three signed the letter to Secretary Sebelius, on behalf of 60 Public Option pledges
ref: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7326102#7326195)

the Senate: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
contact BOTH of your Senators, also contact
Harry Reid - Majority Leader: http://reid.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm
(ask him to contact the 50+ Senators who he KNOWS support the Public Option
ref: http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20091223/pl_politico/30927)

the President: http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
(OBAMA can influence "reconciliation" and he WILL NOT allow this thing to fail)


P.S.

Also, not a bad idea? would be letters to editors of newspapers, and letters/calls to the major MEDIA (radio, cable, local broadcast stations).

[thotzRthingz]

50. PUBLIC OPTION NOW -- we will not waver, tire, falter, or fail! (n/t)

[thotzRthingz]

51. where is everyone? please check-in and support this cause (n/t)

[freddie mertz]

53. I am going to kick the thread with this response.

Maybe if some people come back post-holidays, they will see it.

[thotzRthingz]

52. 12/22/09 Senator Harkin issues another reminder:

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/73315-harkin-dems-will-revisit-public-option-in-the-near-future">source:

Harkin, the chairman of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee, who is sometimes given to more optimistic assessments than his colleagues, said Democrats would try to take up passing a public option again sooner rather than later. "I am a strong supporter of a public option, remain so, and I believe sometime in the near future, we will revisit that issue again and we will adopt a public option," Harkin said during an interview on CBS.

[Tim01]

54. Never, ever, give up. nt

[thotzRthingz]

55. re: never, ever, give up!

That's the spirit!

One senator (if you can call him that), sellout, show-boater, narcissist ... LIE-be-man, held the Senate's health care reform bill hostage. Think what 60 or so HOUSE MEMBERS can do! All they need is some prodding, to stand on principle (not big corporate bucks, lie LIE-be-man and others)... and also know that we have their backs (in the re-election process)... and they'll get a PUBLIC OPTION passed (there's no way that Obama and the Senate will allow this thing to fail)!

[laughingliberal]

56. I don't think we will see a return of PO. But there are gains we can make in important areas

#1 fight to get closer to the House version of the multiplier. They allow a 2x multiplier for age where the Senate allows 3x. This would actually move the bill closer to that affordable thing they keep telling us is achieved with the Senate bill but which is not really.

#2 fight to have the House version of the funding in the bill. Their version includes taxes on the wealthy. Ditching the tax on 'cadillac plans' in the Senate bill will do a lot to lessen the impact on the middle class and bring unions back into the fold.