A Canadian on Huffpost hits the nail on the head.

[piratefish08]

(from the comments section of the article)


CanadianBeef I'm a Fan of CanadianBeef 115 fans permalink

Fascinating idea, having the government pay the private sector to do the job of government. My American cousins have banged the square peg into the round hole. It does seem a pretty desperate way to guarantee health insurance. I didn't realize that health reform meant subsidizing the private sector instead of challenging its failures.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/21/seeing-public-subsidy-not_n_399733.html

[mmonk]

1. Simply put and spot on.

[DavidDvorkin]

2. That's been the "uniquely American approach" for a long time

I think that one reason it keeps happening, from national down to local government levels, is that Americans were brainwashed, generations ago, into believing that the private sector is inherently efficient and that government is inherently the opposite.

Add to that the hysterical reaction of a minority to the very concept of big government, and privatization becomes politically expedient.

[abluelady]

3. You Are So Right

I don't understand how, even with the brainwashing, Americans aren't realizing they are getting screwed by corporations on a daily basis. What will it take for them to understand what the private sector has done to them?

[DavidDvorkin]

11. It would probably help

if the media reported stories about successful and important government programs. It would also help if fictional portrayals of government personnel and plutocrats were different (reversed!).

Neither is likely.

[abluelady]

12. One of My Acquaintances

is a Republican school teacher. She always complains about the government. Next time I see her I'm going to ask her if she was considered a bad school teacher as a government worker!

[Goldstein1984]

4. It's right out of the "Chicago School" of economics

pioneered by Milton Friedman:

Privatization
Deregulation
Tax cuts for the wealthy
Cuts in social programs

Turn the working class into a fearful and easily manipulated peasant class.

We in the United States don't see it because we have been programmed from birth to avoid the term, "class struggle."

[lonestarnot]

7. Me shocks meself!

[Goldstein1984]

8. As a whole, we do seem to be led willingly to the slaughter

Americans bought into the trickle-down bullshit.

9/11, Katrina, Economic Meltdown...

Perfect environments for implementation of the shock doctrine.

[lonestarnot]

10. Yes perfect.

[pundaint]

35. If you can only be number 1 in two things, blowing stuff up and being self-delusional

are a couple of the most dangerous pics.

[penndragon69]

45. It's also called REGANOMICS 101

[pleah]

5. K&R

[Jeffersons Ghost]

6. K&R

[Vinca]

9. If the insurance companies had done a good job, it would make sense,

but they're the primary cause of the problem. Back in the day when they were nonprofit, it all worked pretty well. It was when they started the profit snowball rolling that things went to hell. They told a provider we'll only pay 50% of the bill, so next time around the provider's bill was 100% more. They then told the provider they would only pay 40% of that bill . . . the provider, of course, upped the price of the procedure again. Year after year after year causing premiums to skyrocket and 100% medical care available only to the wealthy.

[mzmolly]

13. The Netherlands is a similar model. they have the highest consumer satisfaction rating in the world.

http://www.ihsglobalinsight.com/SDA/SDADetail17699.htm

Granted, I'd still prefer a single payer system, but Canadians are not as happy as the Dutch when it comes to health care so perhaps our 'gument' knows something after all?

[piratefish08]

14. NOT similar to the Netherlands.......

Among the reasons it puts forward for its effectiveness is the multitude of health insurance providers, operating separately from care providers, who act in competition with each other; the highly structured arrangement for the participation of patient organisations in healthcare decisions is another reason suggested.

http://www.ihsglobalinsight.com/SDA/SDADetail17699.htm


Our private insurers do NOT compete with each other - they are in collusion. That is why there stock has risen 10-31% since October (while stocks in general have risen 1-2%. Our model in NO WAY compares to the Netherlands. Or Switzerland either - I lived there for 2 years.

[mzmolly]

17. The new legislation is designed to enhance

competition. In fact, that is a KEY factor. However, I'll be happy if the anti-trust regs are/were re-established. We'll have to wait and see.

[ipaint]

21. The companies do not compete for business.

They are required by law to offer a comprehensive quality plan to all citizens at a price dictated by the government.

They are allowed to compete for profit in the vanity plans area marketed to the wealthy. But there is no tiered class based system where only people with money get access to the good care.

Using the class system to divy out access and it's despicable treatment of those in the lower classes is uniquely american as far as this faux universal care we are have so far unsuccessfully been sold, hence the cram down our throats for christmas approach.

[mzmolly]

23. We're establishing the profit margin

ala the Rockefeller amendment. The Netherlands does the same.

Also, I feel we're moving away from the tiered system you describe with the new legislation?

[ipaint]

25. No we are not.

We are consolidating the bottom tier by morphing part of the middle class into it.

As far as profit margin, we will never touch it. We are giving up the only bargaining chip we have. Once americans are mandated to buy ins whether it provides access to care or not we are sunk. We lose 100%.

The ins. companies know that they are about to lose 170 million people to medicare in the next 20 years and the birth rate doesn't come close to replacing those customers. The mandate is essential to keep the ins. companies fat and happy. Giving it to them ends further changes. They've been planning for this legislation for several years. They are a dozen steps ahead of us in this chess game.

There is no way anyone can reign in an industry that by law must serve shareholders first.

There will be no further reform.

You and folks like you are being duped. Played for chumps by an industry and a bought and paid for government.

[donco6]

28. Absolutely correct.

They saw the writing on the wall and crafted this bill in collusion with the WH to guarantee participation in perpetuity. There will be no further reform unless the insurance corps want some tweaks that improve their bottom line.

[mzmolly]

29. I disagree

heartily with most of what you said.

Checking out for the day... have a Happy Holiday season, in spite of our disagreement. :hi:

[eridani]

42. Bullshit. The Dutch pay 100 euros/month/adult with NO COPAYS

--NO deductibles and NO age rating. The new legislation established FOUR tiers, the bottom one for the disposable human garbage which pays only 60-70% of costs. It is based on the moral assumption that people who have more money deserve more health care, which is the exact opposite of the Dutch system.

[eridani]

41. Cmpetition in the area of service is fine. Competition that splits risk pools

--is part of the problem. The legislation does exactly the opposite of enhancing competition in the area of services. The only way that insurers "compete" is in how to fuck over sick people for profit.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. In the countries that use private insurance, the companies are

far more heavily regulated than ours are. You know the things that people complain about with insurance companies?

They aren't allowed to do those things in Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, etc.

[mzmolly]

16. We may have to strengthen regulations

down the road. Do you have any specifics on the difference between regs in the new US version versus the Netherlands?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

18. I could Google it (as you could), but basically, they're limited on how much they can

charge people, they have to pay promptly with no weaseling, there are no deductibles and limited co-pays...

In other words, they are actually required to provide services for the premium money they rake in.

[mzmolly]

20. The Rockefeller amendment

takes a step in this direction. And there is no reason we can't continue to advance toward the established Dutch model as you say it exists. That's my point. It's not that we're already there so to speak.

Regarding google, I thought you might have read something recently that helped inform your opinion? I simply wanted you to share what ever that was. I'm having trouble finding comparisons ala google because the legislation hasn't passed yet. We don't know the full story.

[ipaint]

22. Yes there is a big reason we can't

We are about to give up the only bargaining chip we have to force further reform- the mandate.

Without we are truly sitting ducks. And just as stupid.

[mzmolly]

24. Giving up the mandate?

Huh?

[ipaint]

27. Yes, the mandate can be withheld

until regulations are in place and the industry, an industry that has killed 1 million americans in the last two decades through abusive practices, proves their worth to citizens and our health care system.
Frankly handing a proven abusive, murdering industry with ceo's who receive 17 million dollars in stock options for years work our only bargaining chip is insanely stupid.

[eridani]

43. What crap. If we can't have strong regulation now--

--how fucking stupid do you have to be to assume we can get it after we feed the parasites a trillion dollars?

[Joe Chi Minh]

30. And I bet the stringent regulation was absolutely built-into the initial legislation -

and not left putatively to be remedied as and when required by unspecified, anonymous agencies/regulators, still less, agencies/regulators known to be have teeth, and to be prepared to bite down hard on refractory insurers. It will all have been pre-regulated, and MANDATORY ON THE COMPANIES concerned.

[Enthusiast]

47. Regulating private insurance is not "freedom".

We must have freedom, above all else. :sarcasm:

[Cleita]

39. They are also non-profit.

I haven't seen any language in our newly birthed legislation that does that.

[eridani]

40. The Dutch government DICTATES prices and benefits

In 1996, my husband got an emergency root canal for $25 American. Dutch insurers do not pay bonuses to their employees for denial of claims.

[Dragonfli]

46. I live in a border town, you are misrepresenting Canadians. They love their system

It works very well for them and no one is going bankrupt (their businesses love it too, can you imagine being able to compete without having to supply an expensive nearly useless service to your employees?).

I suppose that those talking points and propaganda still work in places where people don't hang out with so many actual Canadians (middle and southern states with people that don't spend time in that country - hell maybe they think Canadians are green with purple dots as well).
I have to tell you however that to people that know that country and it's people very well you folks just sound, well, silly or stupid actually.

I know there are systems that are not single payer that work very well, but in all those cases the Insurance companies are so heavily regulated as to make them not even resemble our private firms here. Regulation so extreme that passing similar rules here would make passing single payer seem as easy as ordering lunch in comparison.

[Romulox]

19. Graft, Crony Capitalism = "uniquely American solution". nt

[bvar22]

26. But the "Centrist" approch to solving problems is so EASY.

Wall Street threatens to blow up the Economy?
Give them a Trillion Dollars.

Wall Street's little brother, the Health Insurance Industry, threatens to keep letting 40,000 Americans DIE?
Give THEM a Trillion Dollars.

See how easy that is?
I'm sure Canada and ALL those other civilized countries who have working Universal HealthCare Programs will change over to our system when they see how well Obama's "Uniquely American Solution" works!

[Laelth]

31. k&r for the voice of reason. n/t

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[leftstreet]

32. K&R

[midnight]

33. Health reform was never meant to subsidize the private insurance companies.

[Cleita]

38. Health reform, as an idea, is flawed.

What people need is access to health care regardless of their ability to pay. This is a whole different concept.

[Bette Noir]

34. Dayyum.

Yeah, that's spot on.

[juno jones]

36. K&R! n/t

[Cleita]

37. Send that to Michelle Bachman, Joe Lieberman, Sarah Palin and all our other

really dumb people, who are still able to talk coast to coast like they had a brain.

[Sherman A1]

44. K&R

very succinct and right on target.

[defendandprotect]

48. Lovely and sadly true . . ..

[kedrys]

49. All my coworkers are wondering why

the U.S. doesn't recognize that access to medical care is a fundamental human right, not a pricey privilege. And after having spent 28 years in the States, I still can't explain - but they are appalled nonetheless.

[defendandprotect]

50. dupe --

[mother earth]

51. Magnifique! C'est vrai en toute. CanadianBeef has amazing

clarity and tells it like it is, as seen by those outside of this country.

[icnorth]

52. The world's largest poker room...

I fail to comprehend how for profit health care is advertised and bought as the most efficient, cost effective and comprehensive model of protecting American citizens. For God's sake, wake up. The insurance industry is the megalith of gambling and they orchestrate the world's largest poker room.

The player buys his chips and bets:

a) I am going to die.
b) I am going to have an accident.
c) I am going to get sick.

The dealer within the confines of the rules the house has established bets: (remember he must allow just enough of you to “win” in order to entice you into buying more chips)

a) You are not going to die.
b) You are not going to have an accident
c) You are not going to get sick

In the end the house always wins and end up in the counting room calculating their profit margin. During the great recession orchestrated by the former administration aided and abetted by congress, ask yourself this, how many casinos have filed for bankruptcy protection? How many have needed more milk supplied from the teat of mother government?:grr: