Lawrence O'Donnell just did a great job in pointing out an Achilles heel to Claire McAskill

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

on Morning Joe.

It is something we have pointed out here many times.

Many Americans WILL find things better after this bill. Claire McA kept her focus on small business, children with prior conditions, etc.

Larry O'D said that when millions of Americans who have good health care plans wake up and find their plans reduced by their employers because of the tax on family plans over 23K, that they will be FURIOUS. Also, if the plans are cut, they will be spending more out of pocket to continue the level of healthcare they have been used to.

Some woman chimed in that she saw that as Obama going back on "if you like your plan you can keep it" since these folks would see their plans altered and it WOULDN'T be the plan they liked.
***************************************(end of discussion summary)

My point would be that I bet a lot of people with the great healthcare will end up being unionized blue collar workers who will not appreciate getting the shaft like this as well as some middle class professionals (or anyone else for that matter) who have better than average benefits

This WILL come back to bite the Dems in the butt with a big backlash and it's a shame. I don't think any part of this plan should have involved eroding care that anyone has. I don't even understand the logic - wasn't it the employer's prerogative to provide an outstanding plan?

The original plan for funding involved rolling back the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy - what ever happened to that? Why fund partially through taxes on employers that will downsize the quality of care for some?

They really are very foolish if they can't see this giant time bomb waiting for them. THIS is what the Repubs will make hay with come election time.

[newlib]

1. he's turned out to be a very smart and smooth host

I'm sorry to say that I used to not think much of him because I thought he was maybe playing for the other side. I beed berry rong.

[Hepburn]

2. I just caught a bit of this and your OP filled in the rest of the discussion.

I agree with the Bush tax cut explanation ~~ that is where the money should have come from.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

3. Claire was definitely flummoxed and didn't have any good rejoinder for this

She said "People in my state don't have 23K plans".

[Egnever]

4. It will be interesting to see if that part makes it through comitee.

I dont think the house version had that.

[corpseratemedia]

5. this is good to point out to those who blindly label as "republicans"

those who don't support this bill in this present form.

[vi5]

6. A good example of this...

..right now my plan has an out of pocket max of $2,000 a year.

I'm not sure what is going to prevent them (my company/insurance carrier) from raising that to the $11,000 or whatever percentage allowable under the new law? Personally due to my son's medical issues I would easily spend that out of pocket each year if my cap is raised.


If the reform bill made things better for a lot more people then I'd be o.k. with it affecting me adversely. But it won't, no matter what the clap louder crowd says.

[freddie mertz]

7. Claire was visibly pissed, eyes popping, not expecting actual questions...

I hope they get the video up there, since it revealed the bitter, angry denial and resentment of "public ingratitude" beneath the happy-talk lie about the Senate plan and its wonderfulness.

O'Donnell got her to lift the mask, if only for a moment. .

[jtrockville]

8. We've always been at the mercy of our employer.

The "if you like what you have, you can keep it" meme is nonsense. Those of us with "employer-offered" health insurance can only keep it if our employer says we can.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

9. Yes, but now they have made it officially impossible for an employer

to keep a deluxe plan for their workers. Who's gonna pay a 40% tax on every dollar over 23K?

So no, "if you like what you have, you can keep it" which was an Obama mantra for health reform, is just plain untrue at this point.
They are consiously eroding the benefits of some, purportedly to raise the level for all.

This plays RIGHT INTO the Tea Baggers "Socialist" and "wealth distribution" memes.

Hey, I'm all for a little wealth distribution, since lately it has existed, but only in terms of distributing upward - so I was completely happy with the rollback of Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. But to finance healthcare with this stupid, shortsighted, mass suicide of the Party strategy is just biazarre. You are THROWING people into the Republicans' arms!

[ipaint]

10. This is an attack on union plans.

Good plans that were negotiated as trade off for wage concessions. Another tax on the middle and working class from an administration that said it would never do that.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

11. I definitely see it as anti-union. nt

[PRETZEL]

12. I think I may disagree to some extent,

and I'll use my own employer to try to make my point.

I work for a county governmemtal agency, non union. There are also some departments that are unionized.

The history has always been that health benefits was the trade off for higher salaries, which has historically been true. The union shops have generally conceded this point in contract negotions.

Last year, we were basically priced out of the traditional PPO. The county stand was that due to higher premiums, the only way to continue the "free" benefits was to switch to a HMO being offered by the same company. Since the union contracts weren't up, they weren't affected.

So in essence, non-union employees were essentially forced into a less desirable plan than the union shops.

For FY2010, the HMO plan is now going to be priced out for us as well and into an "employee particating", higher copay and more out of pocket plan.

It is also a contract year for unionized employees. Health insurance will not be conceded in these contract negotions. The unions representing these employees just got back one of their historically biggest bargaining chip. Additionally, these same unions are once again coming back to gain other departments where there was no need before. More and more people from other departments are once again listening and serious talk is happening again. Only this time, the union has more ammo.

[ipaint]

15. That union even with more members is going to

go up against a county budget in a severe recession and now add to that a high tax on good health ins. plans. for all those same new union members. I wish them luck. They are going to need it.

[PRETZEL]

16. normally I would agree,

but the commissioners made a choice between putting the burden of funding their shortfall on the taxpayers with a millage increase roughly equivalent to $40 per property or through their employees. They chose the latter.

That hasn't gone unnoticed.

[dawg]

13. My son has a pre-existing condition ...

I am self-employed, and we have a high-deductible plan with a $10K deductible. Even so, his asthma is not covered at all, and never will be under current law. Forgive me if I don't cry crocodile tears for those with 23K a year health plans.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

17. Except that those people wil be rioting in the streets when they think

that the benefits of others are being improved at their expense. They will work to keep your son uninsured and this bill repealed. Believe me, they have NO concept of "altuism". They read Ayn Rand for God's sake! That's why this is so stupid.

No one actually gave a shit about the taxes of 1% of the country being raised except for nincompoops with delusions of future grandeur like Joe the Plumber and media people who manipulated the unread and angry downtrodden to mob on their behalf.

[jtrockville]

18. I'd be delighted if my tax dollars went toward helping you/your son.

I'm not sure if my plan qualifies as a "Cadillac" plan or not. Regardless, I'd gladly pay higher taxes in order to provide health CARE for all.

However, I greatly resent having my tax dollars go toward padding the pockets of the executives of an insurance company.

[Stinky The Clown]

14. McCaskill is a walking achilles heel to the Democratic Party