so, when EVERYONE in the middle class sees their salaries go down by the hidden tax

[Lerkfish]

on their health care benefits provided by their employer, what do you think is going to happen?

I don't know why more people aren't talking about this particular poison pill, because it will affect everyone's paycheck. The mandate will just affect the poor, a smaller number, but the tax will be noticed, felt and resented by every middle class worker....unless I'm missing something, won't that be thing people take away from this?

people vote their pocketbooks, and they are going to feel fleeced by this.

now its possible I"ve misunderstood this element of the bill. If I have, someone please correct me.

[midnight]

1. k&r to hear what the answer to this is.

[calico1]

2. If you are misunderstanding than so am I.

What do I think? I think the GOP has been handed a lot of ammunition for next year's elections.

[Bonhomme Richard]

3. My wife's employer, a dentist, pays for our plan. What are we...

going to have to pay now? Will we get a tax bill?

[babylonsister]

4. I'll just bet the OP doesn't know. nt

[Toasterlad]

7. Do You?

I don't see you refuting the OP's point.

[Lerkfish]

18. um, no I don't. the OP is asking the question "what will happen"

the OP is an open ended question inviting responses.

:shrug:

don't know why you have to turn that personal.

[mdmc]

5. we HAVE been seeing this for years

my co-pays went from $20 / $25 TO $25 / $40 (for primary / specialist).
My co-pays will go up again after this passes..

I really don't support the bill, but I do support Obama. If he wants the bill to pass, I will support his decision..

[Toasterlad]

9. So...If Obama Wanted to Pass a Bill That Ensured You'd Be Raped In the Ass Every Two Weeks...

...you'd support that?

[vadawg]

15. roflmao, you my friend owe the county a clean monitor

truest lines ever written...

[mdmc]

21. of course (I do know)

We have a choice - republican or democrat. Both cater to the corporations. One is less evil then the other..

[SoCalDem]

22. "health insurance" in lieu of payraises...for decades now

it's a vicious cycle..

and for people whose unions negotiated away real raises for all those decades, all that lost hourly wage money that never "showed up" on the social security tally...and that affects the size of the checks after retirement..

now people will get whacked twice.. taxed on the benefit, and still not having that money show up as earnings as far as social security is concerned.

[Mari333]

6. I have this image of the people who passed this

They go about each day in limos , from brunch to lunch to dinner, wearing Armani suits or designer suits , silk ties, and gold cufflinks.
They have NEVER worked as dishwashers, maids, fry cooks, assemblyline workers, factory workers, retail clerks, baggers, etc etc , they have never done a days work in their lives.
They have manicured fingernails and their homes are worth 6 million dollars or more
They have nannies for their children and 2nd homes in vacation spots.
They went to Yale or Harvard or (add your own ivy league school) on their parent's monies, and already had their futures planned out by their parents.
They do not understand what it means to live on 7 dollars an hour. They cannot, in their wildest nightmare, understand it.
They passed this bill and will become even more wealthy with money from it thanks to the kickbacks and funds the insurance companies will give them.
The one thing lacking in their lives is empathy and compassion.
This is the mark of a sociopath.

Most of the people in the beltway in politics are so out of touch it is like they live on another planet.

[Fumesucker]

8. +1

[ixion]

11. I think you're spot on, Mari

While there might be a couple of exceptions among the crowd, most of them will fit that description quite accurately.

[flyarm]

16. You forgot the Yachts and champagne, and the beach front second homes! just saying.n/t

[closeupready]

20. This captures it in a nutshell - average net worth of a member of Congress is $1.7 million.

And if you exclude the House, the average is even higher, I think like $6 million, if I recall correctly.

They don't have a clue.

[HughMoran]

10. I don't suppose my small company offering of $36k, $19,000 after company portion will get worse

Do you realize how expensive it is now paying for those without coverage and paying extreme rates because there are no pools for small businesses?

Will you pay $1580/month for a family plan at my company?

We can't even hire people with families as the insurance costs more than their salary!!! It's really bad out there - wake up!

[ixion]

12. and you actually believe the price will go down?

Mine has already increased 9%, and will likely go higher. From Pelosi's description of the price of minimal coverage effectively triples what I pay now for a plan I have that covers only major medical. I pay $140 dollars a month for that plan. From what I understand now, I will be FORCED BY LAW to bump that coverage up to $400+ per month, for coverage I won't even use.

Incidentally, I too have a small business.

[flyarm]

17. you are dreaming if you think this plan is going to save you a damn dollar!

oh and my hubby and i have a small business, and we pay , just for he and I $2,600.00 a month now, and we only get that because hubby retired and his former union and bosses pay 2/3rd more than the $2,600.00 a month that we pay....at $5,200. a month more than we do as their share!..That is a grand total of $7,800.00 per month for two of us!

[Blue State Blues]

13. or when people who have insurance see that every year the price goes up

and the quality of the coverage goes down?

Even if they don't understand the intricacies of their taxes being used to subsidize payments to the private corporations providing the expensive, worthless coverage, they will know the Democrats did this.

And when the RW starts saying that this is the price of covering more uninsured people, they will say the Democrats did it ... as they always say that the Democrats will take your hard earned money with taxes and give it to "other" people.

And when adults with pre-existing conditions still lose coverage until 2014 ... and when people with insurance continue to go bankrupt ...

People will know the Democrats did this.

And so when Democrats campaign on core Democratic values, claiming to be good on bread and butter issues, ordinary people will remember them as the ones who made the mess, through weakness, incompetence, and corruption.

So how exactly is passing this bill good for the party?

[flyarm]

14. what's going to happen? the cheerleaders for this piece of shit, will be long gone

they will have cashed their checks for 5 bucks an hour and you will be stuck paying for shit on a shingle! Oh no..it won't be health care..it will be shit on a shingle!

[stray cat]

19. If we have to pay more to hell with the uninsured and underinsured!

:sarcasm: And progressives and conservatives will be in unity since neither one really wants to sacrifice anything for anyone else.