Universal health care for all citizens? don't be silly!

[RainDog]

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. The US is in the business of lining their own pockets

greed and war.

The colonies have got out of hand!

[treestar]

2. This country has too many wingnuts

In states that have overrepresentation because of the way the Senate is set up.

[RainDog]

3. but our health care system beats the shit out of Somalia's!

America! fuck yeah!

[chimpymustgo]

7. It's really absurd. But hey, "We're Number One!!!!!!!!!"

[RainDog]

8. actually, we're no. 37, just above Slovenia, in health care rankings

that were last done in 2000, before the economic meltdown.

fuck yeah! We're number 37 - but the insurance cos - they're no. one for health care considerations!

[RainDog]

4. kick for the love of insurance cos deciding national health care policy

what a great idea!

[Laelth]

5. Excellent. k&r n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[RainDog]

6. it's sad, really.

sometimes you have to laugh so that you don't cry.

[kctim]

9. Kind of hard to have it for all

when all do not want it.
Especially in a country that placed such an emphasis on individual freedoms when it was founded.

[RainDog]

10. right wingers also fought against unemployment insurance during JFK's term

and they fought against the New Deal and sought to assassinate FDR for undermining the "freedom" of the "captains of industry" to continue the misery of unregulated capitalism

and they also fought against civil rights because, when this nation was founded, there was a major compromise that extended SLAVERY for another hundred years or so...

...so I guess that emphasis on "individual freedom" only matters when the freedoms are for the rich.

but hey, let's continue to be an embarrassment with our disdain for human rights.

America! fuck yeah!

[kctim]

13. You can project

what you think "right wingers" are about all you want, who cares other than the cheerleaders.

But you are sadly mistaken if you believe individual freedoms are only for the rich or that the rich are the only ones who care about them. Tens of millions of Americans place those freedoms ahead of money, their lives and especially ahead of what YOU think is in their best interest. You will NEVER have Universal Healthcare if you think differently.

Feeling embarrassed and guilty eh? Well, all you have to do is make it legal and get a Constitutional amendment passed.

[RainDog]

17. yeah, how fucked up to note that progress is so often opposed

I don't feel embarrassed or guilty at all.

what I do feel is that too many Americans are too fucking stupid to vote for their self interests.

and what I know is that Americans have a history of being bamboozled by bullshit rhetoric about "freedom."

it's great to be free to die because insurance cos control health policy. that's the freedom you apparently support.

that, in other words, is another example of being too fucking stupid to vote for your best interests unless you are an insurance co. shill.

[kctim]

19. Actually

its a perfect example of one THINKING they know what is in the best interest of others, when in fact they have no clue. Believing "too many Americans are too fucking stupid" because they dare not think in lock-step with what one wants to be the prevailing thought. Believing that their views of freedom are bullshit because they do not want govt to do everything for them.

Yes, I do fully support individual freedoms, but not just for what I believe like so many others seem to.

[RainDog]

21. you were provided with examples of opposition to programs that are now fully supported

that Americans LOVE but, in the day, were opposed - and mostly because of bullshit like you hear today about universal health care.

so, honestly, the whole point is again illustrated here in that you are apparently unable to appreciate that fact.

I really do have an idea of what I'm talking about because I have lived in a country with universal health care, I have friends who live in countries that do, and, yes, you are too fucking stupid to support policy that is in your own self interest.

sadly.

but hey, that whole slavery thing worked out great, huh?

[kctim]

23. They love them huh?

Tell me, what would happen if we were allowed to opt-out of social security? medicare? Do you honestly believe millions and millions of Americans would not do so? Would the others happily jump up and offer to pay even more in order to keep the programs you say they LOVE so much?
The govt knows the answer to that, which is why we are not given that choice.

And you are wrong. I do appreciate the good that such programs have done and also what good UHC would have a chance to do. But by jumping in with your emotions instead of logic, you automatically believe anybody who dares question or bring up other facts, must be against them.
You see, I too have lived in countries with some kind of govt control over healthcare and I have served in the military. I will skip the military experience because it was not good at all and I will agree that the people of those countries were happy with their govt controlling their healthcare. BUT, due to our individual freedom culture, the majority of American people would not accept the taxes they would have to pay to have such a program here. Not YET! The time is coming, but it is NOT here now.

YES, the slavery think worked out as it was should have been, given the circumstances. You see, it was done Constitutionally just as UHC should be done.

[RainDog]

27. yes, the majority of Americans support soc. sec and medicare

go look up the polls.

if they don't, they're, yes, stupid. they are stupid to put their faith in an even more corrupt systems than the govt., in systems that have even less accountability than the govt, less longevity, no mandate to actual serve anyone other than a small and select group of stockholders (and, please, most stockholders do not vote on issues, so it's a small group whose interests are really at heart.) but people are free to speculate in the stock market all they want, once they contribute to the common good - good that will serve them, too, if they really need it.)

This government has faltered twice. Once when the confederates wanted to continue the massive human rights abuse called slavery. SLAVERY is another word for unregulated capitalism... capitalism that makes it okay to consider other humans as a good to be traded, bred and sold. Those forces were defeated and we decided that one race did not deserve more of a vote or rights than others. That there are still people in this nation who laud the confederacy is repulsive. This is a basic human rights issue that was corrupted by capitalism.

The other was when the stock market crashed because there was too much corruption, too much gaming the system (PBS has a great documentary about this whole issue on their site) and because TOO LITTLE intervention extended the problems that stemmed from unregulated capitalism.

But, you know, I'm not anti-capitalist at all. I also know a little bit about human nature. And animal nature. If you want a decent society, you make sure that basic human needs are met and human rights are observed.

Frankly I'm surprised that a member of the military cannot appreciate the value of a common cause for the common good.

[guitar man]

11. of course not

It's not "economically viable" :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX4b_rhT0nU

[RainDog]

12. we can't have health care. it's not American to govern in favor of the people

because, don't you know, Americans don't deserve to decide what their govt does. we're just supposed to shut up and repeat...

America is the best. No matter how fucked up things get.

[guitar man]

20. Exactly

It's awful peculiar to me that Congress can jump up and authorize a trillion dollars for a war or corporate bailouts for the fat cats in the blink of an eye, but anything that would benefit the common folks somehow always gets stalled, filibustered or transformed into another giveaway to the fat cats.

It's government of the 1%, by the 1%, and for the 1%. Everything else is just "colored bubbles" to them. :grr:

[RainDog]

22. that money would have been better spent with a big ole santa clause giveaway

to every American.

if they're going to throw money at problems, why not spread it around?

they sure as shit didn't solve the problems those same assholes created. funny, huh, how the biggest fuck ups are rewarded for their failure.

what a great country.

America! fuck yeah!

[guitar man]

24. spread the wealth around?

why that would be <GASP> socialism!! :eyes:

[KakistocracyHater]

14. Time to call our Governors

& move the fight there, while keeping pressure on our idiot leaders in House/Senate.

[RainDog]

15. We are really not a united states

and frankly, I am sick of having to pander to 19th c. democrats.

[liberal_at_heart]

16. I find the whole "it's impossibe" argument funny considering

Considereing how many other industrial nations have national healthcare I find the whole "it's impossibe" argument laughable. It may seem impossible here but that is only becuase we the people have allowed Corporate America to buy our politicians and we the people refuse to fight for national healthcare.

[RainDog]

18. I know.

but as long as Americans think they're so "exceptional" that they cannot join other western democracies and enact basic human rights legislation, we'll continue to have the fucked up govt. that we do.

[kenny blankenship]

25. It's impossible as long as you consider the insurance mafia sacrosanct and untouchable

You have to start where the problem is and the insurance companies ARE the problem with health care in the US. There are others, but until you have eliminated the vast wastage and inflationary pressure of the insurance rackets, trying to address the other problems in the system will get you nowhere. In fact, you're limiting yourself to throwing still more money at the problem, which has all the extinguishing power of gasoline on a fire.

As Matt Taibbi put it, the Democratic intramural debate over health care reform amounts to two doctors in an ER arguing about how to cure the hangnail on the thumb of the left hand of the patient before them, who is rapidly expiring from a gunshot wound to the face.

[Xenotime]

26. The US is truly a sad and misguided country.

[name not needed]

28. bbbbut its SOCIALISM!

Right. That's why public schools put private and parochial schools out of business. Also why the Post Office had UPS and FedEx shut down.