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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 12:51 PM Original message |
THE INCONVENIENT TRUTH about moderate Democrats |
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niceypoo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 12:55 PM Response to Original message |
1. Purity sure did wonders for Germany in the 1920s - 1940s |
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tjwash (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:34 PM Response to Reply #1 |
49. LOL...first post hits Godwins Law |
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WhollyHeretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:42 PM Response to Reply #1 |
93. Horrendous analogy = Godwin's Law = idiocy |
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niceypoo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 04:11 PM Response to Reply #93 |
100. If you found that horrendous... |
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Vincardog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 12:56 PM Response to Original message |
2. Party does not trump POLICY. Asking that elected Democrats support the Democratic party platform is |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:01 PM Response to Reply #2 |
7. You misunderstand. Party is the MEANS to the end |
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brooklynite (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 12:56 PM Response to Original message |
3. Sensible thinking like this will never catch on... |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:06 PM Response to Reply #3 |
12. Well I did ask for reason to trump emotion. That's a tall order for some |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 12:57 PM Response to Original message |
4. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:00 PM Response to Reply #4 |
5. The first step was to stimulate a horrible economy |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:08 PM Response to Reply #5 |
15. Escalation in Vietnamistan is the right direction? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:11 PM Response to Reply #15 |
21. As a matter of FACT, there is no "Vietnamistan" |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:14 PM Response to Reply #21 |
24. And there's no escalation either? |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:09 PM Response to Reply #5 |
16. Dupe, self delete.. |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:01 PM Response to Reply #4 |
6. +1 nt |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:02 PM Response to Reply #6 |
9. -1? Not sure how one can debate that point |
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Bjorn Against (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:19 PM Response to Reply #9 |
27. I suggest you take a look at rule #2 |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:20 PM Response to Reply #27 |
29. OK, +1 has many fine attibutes, with out it you couldn't count to 10 |
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LooseWilly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:52 PM Response to Reply #29 |
96. Now refer to your "rule 8": "When addressing an argument, do not misrepresent it." |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 03:02 PM Response to Reply #96 |
98. OK,- The idea of +1 is a terrible one |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:53 PM Response to Reply #9 |
71. +1 is a shorthand method of agreeing with a poster's point especially when I believe the point was |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:15 PM Response to Reply #71 |
76. so +1 is a way of not adding anything to the debate/discussion other than the idea |
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LooseWilly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:48 PM Response to Reply #76 |
95. "popularity=right" ... isn't that the whole point of your OP. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:55 PM Response to Reply #95 |
97. No, it's not |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 03:17 PM Response to Reply #76 |
99. A little show of support for a poster I thought made a very cogent remark |
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JHB (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:02 PM Response to Original message |
8. Nope, you don't get away with that: Define your terms. |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:04 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. For that matter, what is "inconvient"? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:07 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. Well if typos is all you can find wrong, I will take that as an agreement |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 04:37 PM Response to Reply #13 |
101. :) |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:05 PM Response to Reply #8 |
11. "all those people in that direction who disagree.." now that isn't very intellectually honest |
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Sebastian Doyle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:07 PM Response to Original message |
14. "Moderates" aren't the problem. Corporatists are. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:09 PM Response to Reply #14 |
17. "Corporatists" never seen a Dem run on that platform or position |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:11 PM Response to Reply #17 |
20. They decide themselves.. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:13 PM Response to Reply #20 |
23. You didn't answer the question. It's pretty important to answer this question |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:16 PM Response to Reply #23 |
26. You'rre pretty free with the "labels" yourself.. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:22 PM Response to Reply #26 |
31. I will allow people to decide those labels themselves, although I have offered up definitions |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:25 PM Response to Reply #31 |
35. I said pretty much the same thing.. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:28 PM Response to Reply #35 |
38. Well since I have yet to see a Democrat define themselves as a "corporatists" who are you talking |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:35 PM Response to Reply #38 |
52. Those who defend and serve corporations over the interests of real people.. |
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YOY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:10 PM Original message |
n/t |
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YOY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:10 PM Response to Original message |
18. "The liberals Democrats now have power." |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:12 PM Response to Reply #18 |
22. How much power did they have in 2004 and is it greater or less than now? |
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YOY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:14 PM Response to Reply #22 |
25. About the same give a few. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:20 PM Response to Reply #25 |
28. So you admit they have more power now |
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YOY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:29 PM Response to Reply #28 |
40. No. It doesn't do jack. A small handfull where a majority needs to be. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:31 PM Response to Reply #40 |
43. How was that last Supreme Court Nominee compared to the last 2? |
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YOY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:34 PM Response to Reply #43 |
50. Small consolation towards actual change and more like defense from further regression. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:36 PM Response to Reply #50 |
53. If you think that the Supreme Court is "small consolation" you need to brush up on your history |
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YOY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:39 PM Response to Reply #53 |
56. Well then...let's just see what 'progressive achievement' comes of them in the recent. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:41 PM Response to Reply #56 |
60. Thanks to the two bush appointments the court isn't going to help much |
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YOY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:50 PM Response to Reply #60 |
69. Oh "we" can...but try and get those jaded union boys to care anymore. |
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YOY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:10 PM Response to Original message |
19. n/t |
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Truth2Tell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:22 PM Response to Original message |
30. the Progressive coalition |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:23 PM Response to Reply #30 |
33. "don't see any desired ends being achieved." "any"? There have been achievements |
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Truth2Tell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:31 PM Response to Reply #33 |
44. I used the word substantial. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:35 PM Response to Reply #44 |
51. You can't claim nothing was achieved, then admit things were achived but then discount them |
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Truth2Tell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 05:56 PM Response to Reply #51 |
103. Please don't misrepresent what I said. |
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anonymous171 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:22 PM Response to Original message |
32. "The liberals Democrats now have power." |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:25 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. Compared to say 2004? How much power did they have then? |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:26 PM Response to Original message |
36. What big tent. YOUR "tent" doesn't include progressives. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:30 PM Response to Reply #36 |
42. What an oddly outlandish and false thing to say? I certainly are more than happy with all the |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:37 PM Response to Reply #42 |
89. There's not a bloody thing false about it. You are entitled to your own opinion |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:39 PM Response to Reply #89 |
92. I guess the inclusion of the term "bloody" adds just the right amount of self rightous anger |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:47 PM Response to Reply #92 |
94. Deleted sub-thread |
Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-12-09 07:19 PM Response to Reply #92 |
112. Pointing out your OBVIOUS hypocrisy is not a straw man |
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dusmcj (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:27 PM Response to Original message |
37. on average their positions are based on more intellect and less emotion than 'progressives' ? /nt |
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AllentownJake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:29 PM Response to Original message |
39. Congress is bought and paid for |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:32 PM Response to Reply #39 |
46. It's a flawed system, but working through it is the only choice |
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AllentownJake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:51 PM Response to Reply #46 |
70. Support Campaign Finance reform |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:16 PM Response to Reply #70 |
77. Agreed, but what does that have to do with the topic at hand? |
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AllentownJake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:21 PM Response to Reply #77 |
82. The moderates are corporate whores nt |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:24 PM Response to Reply #82 |
84. That is a rather broad brush you are painting with |
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AllentownJake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:26 PM Response to Reply #84 |
85. Pick a moderate, pick a position, and I'll link it to a donation(s) |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:29 PM Response to Reply #85 |
88. Wow, now that brush was suddenly cut in half |
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AllentownJake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:38 PM Response to Reply #88 |
91. If you are talking about Abortion |
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cliffordu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:30 PM Response to Original message |
41. And the unrec mob completes it's full frontal masturbatory frenzy..... |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:38 PM Response to Reply #41 |
55. Yes they are, but since this was an inconvenient truth, it was expected. |
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AllentownJake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:32 PM Response to Original message |
45. I only regret I have one unrec for this logic and for people who support it, for my country nt. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:33 PM Response to Reply #45 |
47. unrec for logic, would make a nice signature line for you |
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AllentownJake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:50 PM Response to Reply #47 |
68. I don't know |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:17 PM Response to Reply #68 |
78. Yes you did, and you will notice I was intellectually honest enough to admit you had made a good |
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inna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:34 PM Response to Reply #45 |
48. ditto |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:38 PM Response to Reply #48 |
54. now there is a real shocker |
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inna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:39 PM Response to Reply #54 |
57. . |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:40 PM Response to Reply #57 |
58. I will give you credit, that's a much better response than the dishonest flame attack |
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inna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:43 PM Response to Reply #58 |
63. Complete and utter projection on your part. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:44 PM Response to Reply #63 |
64. Thank you, I always appreciate not being flamed (especially when the attacks lack merit) |
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ElboRuum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:40 PM Response to Original message |
59. Congress that is difficult is Congress that works. It is so by design. |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:42 PM Response to Original message |
61. The Party isn't "tossing out the moderates". The party is pandering to the moderates. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:43 PM Response to Reply #61 |
62. So far the party hasn't tossed out the moderates. If many on DU have their way |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:46 PM Response to Reply #62 |
66. Hopefully, the voters will toss out the moderates. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:48 PM Response to Reply #66 |
67. Do you think it's realistic to think the party can toss out moderates and replace them with liberals |
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anonymous171 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:53 PM Response to Reply #67 |
72. That's not what they said though. It's not about the party. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:14 PM Response to Reply #72 |
75. Most Americans consider themselves moderates |
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anonymous171 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:17 PM Response to Reply #75 |
79. Yet most Americans support a public option |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:19 PM Response to Reply #79 |
81. A bit off topic, but I have addressed those polls |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:53 PM Response to Reply #67 |
73. As I said, the "party" isn't tossing anyone out. The voters do that. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:23 PM Response to Reply #73 |
83. The right and the left are minority positions |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:26 PM Response to Reply #83 |
86. Been there, done that. And, the party has moved right. |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 01:44 PM Response to Original message |
65. Believe me I get no joy from it. Just the opposite. |
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swilton (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:06 PM Response to Original message |
74. But not all of the Democrats who are in power are |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:17 PM Response to Reply #74 |
80. and? |
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varelse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:26 PM Response to Original message |
87. It is indeed the results that matter |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 02:37 PM Response to Reply #87 |
90. It took 8 years to drive the nation into the ground |
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varelse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 08:01 PM Response to Reply #90 |
106. I don't think it is being turned around in the direction WE need it to go |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 04:43 PM Response to Original message |
102. Here's one of my beefs with the so=called moderates |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 07:21 PM Response to Reply #102 |
104. Which measures are you talking about? |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 08:00 PM Response to Reply #104 |
105. What measures? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 11:27 PM Response to Reply #105 |
108. Which dems voted for these bills? |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 11:28 PM Response to Reply #108 |
109. What am I, Google? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 11:30 PM Response to Reply #109 |
110. Are you telling me you made some very strong statements with out any facts to back them up? |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-12-09 12:15 AM Response to Reply #110 |
111. If you don't remember that a lot of Dems voted for the IWR or the bankruptcy |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-12-09 07:24 PM Response to Reply #111 |
113. I would call that type of selective memory willful stupidity |
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boston bean (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Dec-11-09 08:02 PM Response to Original message |
107. The problem is the Democratic Party has become the party of YES to Republican ideology! nt |
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FreeJoe (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-12-09 07:46 PM Response to Original message |
114. I not only agree... |
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walldude (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-12-09 07:59 PM Response to Original message |
115. "In the end isn't it results that matter?" |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Mon May 06th 2024, 12:28 AM Response to Original message |
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