Afghanistan is not Iraq. It is not Vietnam.

[joecool65]

Comparing Afghanistan to either conflict is like comparing WWII to WWI, the Seven Years' War, the Thirty Years' War, the Franco-Prussian War, etc....

[bluestateguy]

1. I think I've figured it out

The neo-cons are obsessed with World War II analogies.

The liberal doves are obsessed with Vietnam analogies.

[dhpgetsit]

2. Imagine if the Chinese occupied our country

and supported an illegitimate president like Bush. Now you feel like a typical Afghan under US occupation.

[joecool65]

13. Did terrorists sheltered by the US government attack China...

...in your hypothetical scenario?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

19. Well, they sort of do occupy our country from a financial

standpoint.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

37. And you know this how? N.T.

[sabrina 1]

39. Do you know anything about Afghanistan?

I mean about the people, not the MSM version of what is going on there? Do you know who the US is funding and supporting there and do you now how the people of Afghanistan have suffered under those people?

I think you need to do a little studying.

Eg, what do you know about the dictators we are supporting in the countries north of Afghanistan, such as Uzbekistan?

The commenter you responded to put it very succinctly. Try to imagine how the PEOPLE, not the War Lords we are funding, or the Taliban, both groups equally as bad for the people there, who were caught in the middle of these two groups, and now have to deal with the US funding and empowering one of them. Not to mention the number of civilians who have been slaughtered during this invasion.

Do you understand the conditions these people are living under? That there is hardly a single individual there who has not been physically injured by one or the other of the three groups who are vying for power there? Do you know the condition of the children there, that their parents are forced to sell them in order to save them from starvation, from exposure to the elements? Eight years after we got there? They are dying, not just from our bombs, but from starvation and cold and desease. The survival rate of the children of Afghanistan is among the lowest in the world. And now we arae partly responsible for that. What exactly are we there for?

We are making it worse for them. They, if you listen to them, WANT us to leave because things have deteriorated so badly since we got there. Many, who used to hate the Taliban, now say that at least with the Taliban in power, there was some kind of order in the country. THAT'S how bad it is for them. We cannot 'win' a war there. And that is not even considering the plight of women, bad enough when we got there, now even worse.

America needs to stop interfering in other people's business. Especially since we always side with the bad guys, like Saddam Hussein, and Karamov and now the War Lords in Afghanistan not to mention our horrendous history in South America of supporting the most brutal dictators. Easy for you to judge, residing comfortably in the US, not having to worry how to feed your children or keep them safe from bombs. Try understanding the PEOPLE who are the victims of our politics for once.

[leftstreet]

3. Which Military Occupation should we compare it to?

:shrug:

[rollingrock]

4. It's a lot more like Vietnam than WW2

- a determined guerilla fighting force/insurgency that blends in with the general population? check

- no definition of victory? check

- a war that lasted twice as long as WW2? check. both Vietnam and Afghanistan fits that definition.

- mountainous, jungle terrain for a battlefield? check

...etc, etc.

the similarities between Afghanistan and Vietnam are many.

[joecool65]

15. The Taliban is a popular insurgency like the Vietcong?

Really? Afghans who are not Taliban like extremist Pashtun Sunni beliefs and lifestyles?

[rollingrock]

18. Did I say they were popular?

it doesn't matter how popular they are. most Afghans will side with the devil they know (the Taliban) then the foreign devil they don't know (the US). either way, its a clusterf*ck.

[happyslug]

40. They might very well have popular support.

Lets remember NOT only does the present Government in Afghanistan oppose women's rights and SUPPORT Pashtun Sunni beliefs and lifestyles so did the Government they replaced (The Taliban) and even the Government the Taliban replaced (The Warlords that took over from the Soviet supported Government). As to the Soviet Supported Government, if it was NOT for massive support from the Former Soviet Union it would have fallen years before it did (And survived the Fall of the Soviet Union by adopting more Islamic point of view to win support from some of the opposition to their Government).

Do NOT fall into the Trap that since we would HATE that type of Government, the people of that Country hates that type of Government. It is a style of Government they have lived under for Hundreds of years. It is a type of Government they understand AND CAN WORK WITHIN. It is NOT our style of Government and it is a Style of Governing I would oppose if imposed into the US, but to assume MOST Afghans oppose it is another story.

The old observation that people get the type of Government they want and then and only then is they peace in their country still holds true. The Taliban had NO opposition within Afghanistan (Except for the Extreme North) at the time they ruled Afghanistan. The Extreme North survived being taken over by the Taliban by being of a different ethnic group (And massive support from Russia who saw that if the Northern Warlords would lose, the spread of radical Islam into the Central Asian Republics could be unstoppable). The "Northern Alliance" had been kept together with Russian money for years and then when the US needed them the Russians let the US have them (and I suspect, through I have NEVER seen any proof) that the armored thrust into Kabul that sealed the fate of the Old Taliban Government was a Russian Armored Division, manned by the same ethnic groups as the Northern Alliance (These Ethic Groups extend into the Russian Federation and the Central Asian Republics). The US plan to take Afghanistan was a massive air borne assault preceded by massive Special Forces intervention. Even with BOTH the Air Assault and the Special Forces Intervention and Massive Air Attacks, you still needed an armor thrust to take Kabul. Thus my suspicion that the US rented a Russian Armored Division to do the job. I do NOT see the Northern Alliance having the men and Equipment to do such a thrust (Russia could have given them the Equipment, they did NOT have the men to do the technical support to maintain a tank division as it attacks, thus my suspicion that a Russian Armored Division was rented out).

Anyway, I mention the above to show that even the overthrow of the Taliban seems NOT have have any massive support within the Country EXCEPT for those groups that the US bought off. The Pushtan, while NOT the Majority of the people in Afghanistan are the single largest tribal group and thus as long as the Pushtan oppose US intervention in Afghanistan, no one can claim to have popular support. On the other hand, when the Taliban Ruled Afghanistan, they could claim popular support for they was NO opposition except what Russia was paying for.

[Fumesucker]

5. Then why did so many people call Afghanistan..?

"The Soviet Union's Vietnam"?

Eh?

Was it more like Vietnam for the Soviets than it is for us?

[Fumesucker]

6. Dupe, self delete..

DU is stuttering badly tonight for me..

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. ..........but it is now our war.

[cowcommander]

8. Well, it was certainly the Soviet Union's Vietnam, that's for sure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThKBe3TiVAE

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeFree]

22. Well

Some say they beat the US military to the punch on 9/11. Avoided the CIA and FBI, to boot.

As for Vietnam comparisons you must have never experienced the politics of VN, because its the same shit, different day.

[joecool65]

25. So, politics in every poor Asian nation is the same thing?

Really? The Vietnamese are Sunni Muslims?

[BeFree]

28. No

The politics here. Showing you didn't live the VN days like most of us.

But glad you brought up religion, because that makes this one even worse.

[PA Democrat]

31. "a bunch of in-bred Afghan hillbillies"

Hey, Joe, you are NOT cool.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. First you have little respect for this enemy

I know it is cool to call people you do not get names.

Second... it would have taken longer. After all it is these "hill billies" that have been burying empires for a few millennia.

[geckosfeet]

9. Lot closer politically and tactically to Viet Nam than anything in recent US history.

[Arctic Dave]

10. Hey, your right. This occupation has that brand new quagmire smell.

Or is it more like Algeria? No? How about ...

[joecool65]

11. Did the Vietnamese ever attack the United States? No.

Did the Taliban shelter Al Qaeda who attacked the United States and killed and wounded thousands? Yes.

So, how is Vietnam like Afghanistan again?

Is Afghanistan split into two nations with more popular support for the side we are fighting like Vietnam?

Is China and Russia supplying the Taliban with massive amounts of arms and aid?

I hate to sound like Rudy Guiliani or Dick Cheney or even, gasp, George Bush, but we were attacked on 9/11. If it were not for the Taliban running most of Afghanistan, we would not be there today.

[rollingrock]

17. The Vietnamese did attack the US

...or at least that was the given reason for sending American combat troops to Vietnam in the first place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident




the Gulf of Tonkin incident turned out to be a big lie, however....just as 9/11 has!

[joecool65]

21. Really? Al Qaeda did not attack the US? The Taliban did not shelter Al Qaeda?

[rollingrock]

24. Yes, really

It is not simply that there is a different story as to what happened; it is that no attack happened that night. <...> In truth, Hanoi's navy was engaged in nothing that night but the salvage of two of the boats damaged on August 2.<4>

--US National Security Agency document, declassified in 2005

Do you believe the Gulf of Tonkin incident really happened?
How about the tooth fairy? Do you believe in the tooth fairy?

[joecool65]

35. I was talking about 9/11...

...in case you missed the reference to Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

The Taliban. You know them. They took Afghanistan from the 15th back to the 10th century.

[Octafish]

14. It profits the same class.

Vietnam and Iraq Wars Started by Same People

Oh. So Social.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TexasObserver]

20. Is too, is too, is too!!

Comparting Aghanistan to Vietnam is already an apt comparison. Eight years in, and we have not accomplised a damn thing, and the more troops we send, the more troops come home dead.

[joecool65]

23. That pretty much describes any war

The more troops go in, the more come back dead. Yes, that is just like Vietnam! And the Civil War! And World War I! And the Korean War!

The war in Afghanistan is just like every other war!

[TexasObserver]

30. If I need advice from someone who doesn't understand war, I'll call you.

[BeFree]

26. You're right, big difference

This time religion is deeply involved.

Someone once called it a "Crusade."
Uhmmmm, who was that? The pResident? Yup.

This is worse, much worse.

[Canuckistanian]

27. Right. It's more like the Philippines.

First invaded in 1899, it's STILL unofficially occupied.

[roamer65]

29. Chinese saying: "May you live in interesting times."

Buy gold and :popcorn: .

We have a front row seat for the decline of the American empire.

[JPZenger]

32. Excellent NPR Interview with terrorism expert

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121020669

The above link is to an excellent interview broadcast today by Terri Gross with Peter Bergen, an expert in terrorism. He provided excellent context about the situation in Afghanistan that really increased my understanding of the issues.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. It's more like a 19th century colonial war. "Picking up the White Man's Burden"

With similar justifications of bringing civilization to the backward lesser breeds.

[joecool65]

34. Yes, bad civilization

Things like security in one's daily life, roads, bridges, sewage, running water, schools, and hospitals. Why do Afghans need civilization anyhow?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. Maybe they'd like to create their own without our "help".

But, what do they know? Backward hillbillies.