Do you support "Same Sex Marriage"?

[Renew Deal]

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. (reply negated by subsequent edit)

I don't like "gay marriage" as a term but I definitely support "same-sex marriage" or maybe "orientation-neutral marriage"... that's better than "same-sex"

The point is that supporting "gay marriage" strikes me as like supporting "negro lunch counters" in the 1960s.

The question was access of African-Americans to the existing institution of lunch counters.

"Gay marriage" isn't a new institution, it is broader participation in an existing institution. (Otherwise civil-unions would be fine. The key is avoidance of separate-but-equal)

Sorry to be a language-nazi but these words have effects.

Maybe "Fair Marriage" will be the eventual formulation.

(I am sure I use the phrase "gay marriage" all the time, but it is problematic in the formality of a poll.)

[Renew Deal]

2. I wanted to use the clearest terminology possible

And I think that's clearer than what I wrote, so I will change it.

[SidDithers]

6. "Marriage equality" is also a good term...

it's the one I now try to use in these discussions. :hi:

Sid

[Renew Deal]

15. I thought that would be too confusing for this poll.

I really want to make it clear.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

16. That is good

[The Doctor.]

41. I'll go with that one from now on.

Thanks.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

14. Not trying to crack on you.

:hi:

I might have phrased it just the same since it's the most common term.

I edited my reply to touch on why the distinction matters (to me)

[sui generis]

22. yep - equal marriage

that's my pet.

If you're an American adult, you should get to decide who your next of kin will be and how your family is to be structured, provided all parties agree.

It's about assets and property, period, as far as the IRS is concerned - so it's about my adult rights to decide who gets my assets and property if I get struck by a meteor while grilling in my back yard.

Sex? what does that have to do with anything but animal husbandry? It really is not the interest of the government by any legal definition or stretch, or children would be a requirement, instead of an option.

[seeinfweggos]

34. how about "equal protection under the law."

"orientation-neutral marriage" is awful. It's liberal-speak that is easily made fun of. Nobody who doesn't work at a non-profit organization or whose job title isn't "activist" talks like that.

Don't get mad at and me and sorry if that's over the top. I don't mean to offend.

[Mari333]

3. I support the civil rights of GLBT people to be legally married like everyone else in this country.

[HopeHoops]

4. Curiously, our new terms (Cigna) starting 1 Jan include same sex partners in coverage.

It is pretty unambiguous. They treat same sex partners (married or not) the same way the treat opposite sex partners.

[marmar]

5. I support equality of all forms.....

If a segment of a population is prevented from marrying, it's inherently unequal.

[wtmusic]

7. I support "people" not "interfering" in others' "lifestyle choices"

It's quote-a-palooza!

[NYC_SKP]

8. Hell, I don't even support "Opposite Marriage"!

Of course, if there must be Marriage it should be available to any combination of two adults.

However, I'd rather it be completely disassociated with governments and laws and universally be kept a private or religious matter, regardless of the sex of the partners involved.

[MH1]

36. So for tax purposes, etc, everyone should be treated as single individuals?

As soon as marriage involves tax or benefit consequences, the government is involved.

[NYC_SKP]

38. Yep. The tax system, especially, is discriminatory. Benefits and rights need to be worked out.

The concept that government should be involved in what traditionally are religious ceremonies is offensive.

That we have institutionalized many aspects of marriage makes it challenging to extricate ourselves from the intrusion.

But that it is challenging is no excuse for not trying to do the right thing.

:patriot:

[EndersDame]

55. I lived with my boyfriend for over 3 years I dont see why I cant get the same benfits

that my friend got after she married after knowing the dude for only 6 mos (they are having problems suprise suprise)

[NYC_SKP]

64. There ya go, case in point. n/t

[Lex]

9. I support Marriage Equality. nt

[petronius]

10. I support marriage in general - 'opposite', same, or poly makes no difference to me...

[That Is Quite Enough]

11. Yes.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

12. I oppose all marriage.

Sorry I had to insert the obligatory divorced guy joke. :evilgrin:

[safeinOhio]

39. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I liked the idea of 4 year serial marriage. No divorce or reupping. Bring what you got and leave with what's left. I'm with you Guy.

[Froward69]

56. right there with ya..

[Rhythm]

13. Obviously. n/t

[HelenWheels]

17. I don't care if they call unions outside of the religious ceremony "Civil"

but they have to give the same rights and tax breaks. But then their are some churches that will be more than happy to preform a ceramony - like the UU

[Rhythm]

19. The UU, the UCC, MCC, and many Episcopal churches...

As well as an assortment of Reform synagogues.

[WilliamPitt]

18. These un-rec people are ridiculous.

Gad zooks. Get a fucking hobby.

[Renew Deal]

20. Is it a way for the those that oppose "marriage" to register their opinions without getting banned?

That might be it, though I don't think we should be banning people for simply not supporting "same sex marriage"

[WilliamPitt]

21. There's no consistency to it

I just saw someone un-rec a thread about a kid who died of the flu.

Hobbies. These people need hobbies.

[Renew Deal]

24. Someone unreced the thread with the names of the 4 dead cops yesterday

The thread had nothing but names and photos. I think that's abusive.

[NYC_SKP]

66. Yes, they did. Unbelieveable.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7112715&mesg_id=7112729

[BlueIris]

26. Or they need more orgasms. From anything other than hatred.

The repressed sexual tension of the unrec trolls just bleeds through their actions. I'm sorta sad for them. Sort of.

[Lilith Velkor]

67. Some people juggle baby geese, and some people unrec random threads

Just because an activity is silly doesn't mean it ain't a hobby.

[Lyric]

47. Well I support the Admins' decision to ban people who express non-support for marriage equality.

And if it were my site, the non-support for the basic female civil right of reproductive choice would earn a pizza too. Alas, it's not my site. I can still be happy about the first part, though.

[Sebastian Doyle]

23. I see we have one vote from the Fred Phelps cult so far

Someone here on DEMOCRATIC Underground will actually admit to not supporting even civil unions? Seriously??

I'd say a pizza delivery is definitely appropriate there.

[Renew Deal]

25. Opposing "marriage" does not mean you're Fred Phelps

That's a bit over the top.

[Sebastian Doyle]

28. If you can't even support civil unions, that would mean you're opposed to any form of equality

Why would anybody not want LGBT citizens to have equal rights?

Because they think there's something "wrong" or "evil" with them, like Fred Phelps does.

[Renew Deal]

29. My point is that the Phelps crowd is so f****ed up

that even homophobes look tolerant compared to him.

[Sebastian Doyle]

31. All homophobes believe pretty much the same things Phelps does

They just aren't stupid enough to stand around with picket signs saying so, or tying their homophobic obsessions to every item in the news like Fred and his wackjob family cult does.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

44. So, by some sort of rule, one MUST support LGBT unions

in order to support ANY form of equality? That's just plain stupid.
Even as conclusion-jumping hyperbole that's a shit-ass dumb statement.

Not supporting something is NOT the same as opposing something.
Many (maybe most) are indifferent and do not oppose GLBT unions but simultaneously do nothing to support it.
So please explain how, " unions... means you're opposed to any form of equality."

You do realize it is possible to deisagree with the party platform on a few issues and still be democratic, right?
There are plenty of gun-loving capitalist dems... even a few dems that support some restrictions on abortions.
I suppose it's even possible for a democrat to oppose GLBT unions for some reason or another (even if that reason is not logical) and still support other civil rights (women & minorities).

[Fleshdancer]

57. why do you respond with insults?

"That's just plain stupid. Even as conclusion-jumping hyperbole that's a shit-ass dumb statement."

I'm just curious why you have to start with the insults before attempting to make your point? Does it make you feel good? Do you think the insults will somehow make people agree with your argument? Or maybe this particular topic hits a nerve with you? What's the purpose exactly?

[Sebastian Doyle]

61. If you don't believe LGBT citizens should have equal rights

Then you are not wanted in the Democratic party. Or on this board, as it's against the rules.

[Soylent Brice]

68. EXACTLY. n/t

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

71. Not every democrat will toe the party line.

It really is as simple as that. I'm simply pointing out the absurdity of waving a brush so big as to say one must support GLBT to support ANY equality. I imagine one could endorse and condemn any number of combinations of issues regarding equal rights. It may be slightly hypoctritical, but certainly possible.

Furthermore, are you the arbiter of democratic membership? With what authority are you speaking on behalf the party; telling those who do not share this belief they are not welcome as democrats? The Democrats are a big tent party - this is what won the past election. Any party that expects it's members to be puritan or ahere to strict ideals will shrink and lose power. Recognizing and addressing some of the intra-party varying opinions (even on core ideals) will only strengthen the party and inprove the logistics of passing legislation with thses intra-party road-blocks.

Myself, personally? I never said I don't believe LGBT should have equal rights. In fact, I voted quite opposite in this poll. There's no reason GLBT couples should not have the same rights as straight couples. As for breaking DU rules... :eyes:
While members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, nowhere is there a mandate they must wholly supportive of ALL progressive ideals. I suspect most here couldn't possibly support EVERY democratic platform position.

[Sebastian Doyle]

73. I'm sick and fucking tired of this "big tent" excuse for everything.

In case you hadn't noticed, that "big tent" is looking kinda lopsided lately, and it's all toward the extreme right corner of the tent. And there is no goddamn "big tent" for civil rights. You are either for them, or against them. And if you are against them, you are not a fucking Democrat.

[Soylent Brice]

27. who the fuck voted NO???

[theHandpuppet]

37. The usual cowards

Who always unrec GLBT threads or polls such as this, but don't have the balls to actually defend their bigoted selves by posting.

[Soylent Brice]

48. i'm not sure which is worse, the silent bigotry, or

having to read through a reply from some freepwad as they attempt to justify their bigotry.

[tammywammy]

59. It's not too silent

The admins know how people voted, those who voted no could be banned. It's happened before.

[tekisui]

43. So far, two trolls who should be banned.

[Soylent Brice]

46. i hope they realize the admin can see who voted, and how.

fucking idiot bigots.

and since the last time i came in here we have a not sure, and 7 for civil unions.

:wtf:

[Fleshdancer]

58. I would be very shocked if anyone got banned from this poll

Don't get me wrong, I would be pleasantly surprised if they did, but I would be shocked if it actually happened.

[tammywammy]

60. It happened before

On a same sex poll. People that voted no were banned.

[spoony]

62. Yep, but trolls aren't too smart.

That's why I love polls like this, you can do them all day long and they aren't going to learn!

[Fleshdancer]

63. I had no idea

I remember posters getting banned from a poll, but I thought it was on the issue of race. Guess my memory is failing me! :blush:

[bigwillq]

30. I support equal rights for all people

You can call it whatever you want, I just want everyone to have the same rights in all 50 states.

[tosh]

33. Exactly. nt.

[Echo In Light]

42. Agreed

[Initech]

32. Equal rights means everybody should have them, including LGBT couples.

[Wildewolfe]

35. I voted yes...

But personally I think the government should not do a "marriage" for anyone same sex or different sex. They should all be civil unions period. Separate the church part from the state part. The state does the civil union and that conveys ALL of the legal rights and responsibilities and the various religious entities can do marriages according to their various faiths that convey NO legal rights and responsibilities.

The two should be separate IMO. It's not going to happen that way so I support 100% all our LGBT folks getting their due rights by whatever means... that's the important part that get 100% recognized legally and it shouldn't be separate but equal either. Just equal.

[kelly1mm]

40. I agree totally with your first paragraph - civil unions recognized

by the government for all and let the religions handle marriage. Civil unions gets you the benefits of what is now "marriage" an marriage is solely a religious moniker.

I am still thinking about if this is possible and what is my position as to what to do if it is not.

[Stevenmarc]

45. If you're asking if I support Marriage Equality, Yes

I prefer not to have the issue defined by the oppositions terminology, the term "same sex marriage" creates a them versus us mentality when the issue is extending benefits to all citizens.

[SteppingRazor]

49. Other: Ideally, I support civil unions for everyone ...

with the gov't getting out of the marriage business entirely and leaving it up to the various religions whether they choose to give a civil union the imprimatur of "marriage."

[Deep13]

50. I agree with allowing same-sex marriage.

Not sure I have done much to support it beyond talking about it on this board and voting against Ohio's version of prop. 8 in 2004. So while I would have liked to vote "support marriage," the truth is "other."

[Froward69]

51. Other ...and I will tell ya why

I am (Bitterly) Divorced. I do not support marriage period. between two people, cats, lizards, mice or any other sentient being for that matter. (regardless of gender)

Marriage began as a way to "step up" in society. Or to legitimize sexual relations. when in reality sex is more legitimate without a contract.

The whole Marriage thing is elitist and frankly Just because you got married you get special privileges single people do not. Single mothers and fathers struggle every day dealing with things Married people take for granted.

Additionally the whole Idea that one must be married to "complete" themselves really just shows how dependent or co-dependent that individual or couple really is.

Sad really.

[Fleshdancer]

52. I'm a Democrat so of course I support equality

I support gay marriage.

[EndersDame]

53. Freedom is merely privilege extended unless enjoyed by one and all

[Solly Mack]

54. I support equal rights

[NYC_SKP]

65. IMO, Marriage is a construct with the same root purpose as the Pro Life movement.

To encourage baby-making so that the dominant culture out populates "lesser" cultures.

Fuck marriage...

x(

[and-justice-for-all]

69. I find marriage to be overrated...

but I think it is a decision that should let to the couple.

[flvegan]

70. Support it and demand it.

Every person should have the same rights as everybody else. Anyone feeling any different is nothing but a piece of shit bigot.

That's not opinion or name calling, just a simple statement of fact.

[Nikki Stone1]

72. Absolutely, Completely, and Unequivocally

:patriot:

[Romulox]

74. Yes. nt

[Vidar]

75. Yes.