What makes a "breed"? Is it size? Color? Location? What they do?

[uppityperson]

How they act? What makes a breed?

[uppityperson]

1. No takers? I thought with the Pit Bull threads going that someone might have

something to share about breeds.

[uppityperson]

2. what they are bred for? Any takers? Or is it more fun to just argue that a "breed" is bad?

without defining what a "breed" is?

[imdjh]

4. Rottweilers were Roman cattle dogs and carting

Aren't they cute?

[wordpix]

5. never knew that about Rottweliers

[Hannah Bell]

26. that woman looks like a fat "church lady".

[wordpix]

3. it's the human selection for certain traits

e.g. DOGS: you want "small" for going into rat and fox holes and "large" for pulling sleds, saving lives at sea and patrolling sheep pastures to keep out wolves and such.

That's just dogs. The same goes for horses, cattle, plants and pretty much any "breed" humans need for any purpose.

Breeds are bred to help people and do work in their specific locations. Let's say your entire region lives off fishing in a cold area, like Newfoundland. You need a large dog with big paws that help it swim, a coat that keeps it warm, and other traits that help it stand freezing cold water to save your ass if you go overboard, and the best dogs that serve the purpose are used as breeding stock. Over time, you get the Newfoundland dog.

Human selection is the key to a breed. Otherwise, you get what nature gives you, which is natural selection.

[TorchTheWitch]

6. physical characteristics

Same as people. Behavioral characteristics also like people are far more a matter of training and environment.

[uppityperson]

13. You mean like White men CAN jump?

Thank you for your reply. Being of a white breed, my man can jump.

[TorchTheWitch]

18. physical characteristics have little to do with color

Size, strength, shape, body features, etc., etc. Interesting that when it comes to breeding of animals color has very little to nothing to do with it for most breeds. Even more interesting is that those anomalies of color in a specific breed are usually prized.

[smalll]

7. Stop hating people.

And stop transferring your natural human affection to a dog breed bred for muscle, lethality, and the homicidal urge.

I realize a lot of pitbull apologists probably had terrible parents and/or first marriages, and I feel your pain, but seriously, come back to the species.

"I'm Just Sayin'" :shrug:

[uppityperson]

10. boy, that was random. No answer just an insult. huh.

[TexasObserver]

11. That's a lot of truth packed into a short post.

[uppityperson]

14. You have no input on what a "breed" is, but prefer to hate one without defining it?

AH!

[Chemisse]

33. Where did he say he hated a breed?

That's what I mean about cultivating an argument.

[uppityperson]

35. Thanks Chemisse, it is a carry over or stalking from another flaming topic

And, believe it or not, I am a she. I was going to have my name more indicative of my chromosomal status, but decided that I wanted to be taken as just a person rather than a woman, if that makes sense.

[Chemisse]

37. Eep! Well if it's any consolation, I had assumed you were a 'she'

(not sure why, maybe something in a previous conversation) but made an error when I typed up the comment.

:hi:

[safeinOhio]

8. I had thought that a pure breed

was when dams and sires are breed back to daughters and sons for 100 generations. That''s why I always laughed at Hitler and his "pure" race.

[uppityperson]

15. Yup. What is a "pure" race or breed?

whatever characteristics someone decides it is.

[safeinOhio]

16. most would say

Animals that, through selection and breeding, have come to resemble one another and pass those traits uniformly to their offspring.

[TorchTheWitch]

19. that's stupid

What that is is REALLY BAD breeding. Good breeders concern themselves with the QUALITY of the animals produced which VERY much deals with the health and vitality of the animals. Inbreeding completely destroys that because inbreeding creates poor health both physically and mentally. Good breeders supply pedigrees going back many generations mostly to prove they aren't inbreeding as inbreeding is SERIOUSLY frowned upon because it damages the breed in health and quality.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Since the last time I had a dog I was a teen

been a while. And my sister's dog is a real street mutt.

But since my older brother was a pure bred fanatic... a breed was created by selective breeding to increase certain characteristics, in both temperament, and function of the dog.

Why some ankle biters are companion dogs, while other breeds are working dogs. Pit bulls were bred for dog fighting at one one point. I suspect that part of the personality has been diluted over recent generations.

by the way pure bred dogs also tend to have a slew of other issues due to the at times ahem inbreeding. But that is a whole different discussion.

[QC]

12. It's whether them people on the teevee told me to be ascared of it or not. n/t

[robinlynne]

17. There is a very long answer to that question. More than one can say in a few words.

Wolves are dog's ancestors. As they came into closer contact with humans, (for food), some developed traits which made them survive better near humans. Those bred with each other, and differences began. If, for example, you were to breed the quietest wolves together, and keep on doing that, over time, their physical characteristics change and become distinct. That is known as a breed. There is a great 5 hour PBS series on the history of dogs which goes into this and explains it in detail. In one area, perhaps only the dogs (wolves at the time) who can survive in cold bred. Over time, a breed develops which has longer fur and is suited for cold. In some cases, shorter or longer legs developed because of th4e conditions in which they ere living, and so on.
adaptation to the environment.

[TorchTheWitch]

20. I watched that series

Or most of it. It was interesting the part they did about certain breeds having certain body part functions like how the spine moved differently in dogs bred to haul loads and dogs bred to run fast and jump high and that dogs use their tails as a rudder (which is why tail docking is really bad... screws up balance). The whole thing was interesting, but I was fascinated by that part.

[depakid]

22. Curiously though- coyotes stayed wild despite their proximity

Did the series go into that at all?

[TorchTheWitch]

24. coyotes weren't found in Europe

Their environment is the American continent which had much fewer people and a much later civilization growth. They live in packs of fewer number and hunt in pairs rather than in packs as wolves do so they aren't as sociable as wolves thus less likely to mingle with the human species. They also reach full adulthood at one year of age rather than wolves who reach full adulthood by age two, so they're more aggressive by nature. Though they're a canid like the wolf, they're more closely related to the jackal then they are to wolves. The behavior, sociability and pack structure of wolves more closely resembles that of humans than the behavior, sociability and pack structure of coyotes do, so I'm guessing that wolves more easily and more willingly adapted to mingling with humans. I think they're also nocturnal or were nocturnal originally before humans came into their habitat.

I can't remember if this was part of that same series or not but I'm sure I probably learned this stuff from one of the PBS nature programs... I love these kinds of programs.

[depakid]

25. Excellent info!

Something I've wondered, but never been motivated enough to find out. Thanks.

[TorchTheWitch]

28. I have amazing memory for useless trivia

I just can't remember important stuff. I must get that from my mom. She can remember word for word songs and poems she learned in elementary school that are like 15 verses long but can't remember where she put her glasses or what she ate for dinner the night before.

I learn a TON of stuff from PBS programs. They always have interesting programs about animals or space or history, and I'd much rather watch that kind of stuff on the tube than the usual sitcom and "reality tv" junk on other channels.

[depakid]

21. The same thing that give plant varieties their characteristics

selective breeding over time for certain traits.

[Jamastiene]

23. Papers n/t

[uppityperson]

29. I'll agree with that for sure.

They seem a random decision of certain characteristics. Being able to produce offspring with other "breeds" makes me wonder why we define them so.

[TorchTheWitch]

31. they're no more random than human "breeds"

Humans are also classified in "breeds" that we call race or ethnicity that are a combination of specific - not random - physical characteristics. What we call a mutt in dogs is a combination of different dog breeds... with humans we call such "mutts" as being of mixed-race. Different words, same premiss.

[Hannah Bell]

27. a group of lifeforms that "breed true".

"A breed is a group of domestic animals with a homogeneous appearance, behavior, and other characteristics that distinguish it from other animals of the same species. When bred together, animals of the same breed pass on these uniform traits to their offspring, and this ability—known as "breeding true"—is a definitive requirement for a breed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chemisse]

34. Ahh - thanks for the reminder - I am unreccing this - nt

[Chemisse]

32. It's obvious you are trying to cultivate another pit bull argument.

What's the point?

[uppityperson]

36. Before we can discuss if a breed should be done away with, was wondering what a "breed" is

then I started thinking about people and race and wondering if "breed" would apply there.

No, I'm happy to continue the pit bull arguing in pit bull threads. The only ones who have come into this one to argue are noticeable above and I won't continue it here.

A dog breed seems to me to involve a particular set of physical characteristics, rather randomly chosen imo, esp since every dog can breed with every other dog. It involves "papers" mostly.

Now, on to humans and what characterizes their "breeds" or races, which is a whole nother thing...later.

[flvegan]

38. If you're looking at it from the standpoint of the pitbull hatership here

the pitbull, by breed, is any dog that looks like what they think a pitbull looks like or has what they think are their characteristics. So basically, they'd seek to ban just about any of the molosser descended dogs. Pretty much anything from the Boston terrier to the boxer to the Newfie and great dane.

Yeah, I know...pretty fucking stupid. But they do have their right to be ignorant.

However, if you're looking for a realistic take on what a breed is, you'll need to have paperwork and preferably DNA analysis.

[guitar man]

41. [phone]

Exactly. And the stupidity of "breed specific legislation" is that there is nothing specific about the "breed" they want to ban. "Pitbull" is not a breed, it is a descriptive term loosely applied to any dog that even vaguely fits the description of hat people think a "pitbull" is supposed to look like. I have one friend with a boxer/lab mix and another friend with a boxer/border collie mix and both dogs have been misidentified as "pitbulls" by LEOs, vets and animal shelters when they are nothing of the sort.

Now, if people want "breed specific legislation" lets get down to specific breeds, American Staffordshire terriers, Staffordshire Terriers, Bull Terriers, American Pit Bull Terriers etc. etc. and make a case based on statistics for each specific breed. You know what? They can't do it, because I'd venture to guess there are no accurate statistics and "pitbull" has been listed as the breed of dog involved in attacks over and over just because a dog looks a certain way.

But who am I kidding, we can never expect a rational discussion on the subject because too many people would rather scream, flap their arms and run in circles hollering "viscious pitbull!!" rather than spending a little time to become educated on the subject....

[Toucano]

39. A breed is a group of domestic animals with a homogeneous appearance, behavior, and other

characteristics that distinguish it from other animals of the same species.

[TorchTheWitch]

42. You can't breed behavior

At best you'll get slight natural tendencies in behavior, but those tendencies can be overcome. Behavior is LEARNED same as it is with people. The reason that wolves mingled with people and dogs of various breeds were created is because of the similarities in behavior and adaptability with humans.

Pups from the same litter with the exact same pedigree will behave differently from one another almost immediately after birth which becomes more pronounced through life experience and socialization. It's obviously not breeding that creates the differences in behavior or they would all behave the same way since their pedigree is exactly the same.

[Toucano]

43. You are referring to the personality of individuals, not behavioral traits of a breed.

A terrier does not exhibit the same behavioral traits as a collie.

A pointer has different behavioral traits than a shepherd.


This has been a primary motive of selective breeding of all domesticated animals and actually isn't debatable. Perhaps it would be easier to understand if you think about it in terms of chickens rather than dogs, which so many people think of in terms of their pets.

[guitar man]

40. As far as registration goes

Meeting published breed standards and proof of lineage are among the criteria