Family Violence

[H2O Man]

I’ve read with some interest a few threads about the incident involving Tiger Woods and his wife. This was a bit of a surprise for me, because I’m not particularly interested in Mr. Woods as a golfer, though he had seemed a pleasant enough public figure. My interest lies more in the way of the discussions about domestic violence.

As is often the case, the topic of this possible example of domestic violence (for surely we do not know what actually went on) has brought about a wide range of reactions and responses on this forum. And that’s a good thing, for surely "violence" is a symptom of an illness that infects our culture, on every level. It should be obvious that a society that has high levels of violence within the homes, on the streets of its villages and cities, and saturating its institutions, is going to lack the capacity to deal in foreign affairs in a non-violent manner.

Likewise, until our society produces enough people who recognize that non-violence has to be both advocated and put into practice – in our homes, on the streets of every hamlet and every city, and actively within our institutions – the diseases associated with violence will spread and consume more and more people, as well as the very environment that we are a part of.

Now, no one person (least of all, me) has all the answers. In fact, in the discussions on DU, there is a recognizable phenomenon, where those who claim insight on absolute truths, and react harshly to other opinions – and those holding different viewpoints –expose the inherent weaknesses of their limited perspective. Yet, this should not discourage any of us from attempting to engage in open and frank discussion and debate on this wide-ranging topic. For, in the end, none of us are sitting on the fence: either we work together to identify answers that will benefit us when put into practice, or we will all suffer from the growing decay that threatens us, from the grass roots to the global community levels.

In the 1980s, I began a series of public presentations, as part of my employment, on the impact of domestic violence. I addressed issues involving individual families, and the various villages and towns that I was speaking in. I live in rural, upstate New York, and in order to best communicate certain ideas, I tried to find symbols that everyone could understand. That is, of course, an obvious key to communication. (Likewise, many of the heated disagreements on DU appear to result from miscommunication, rooted in people expressing not-that-different perspectives, but in a manner that excludes agreement.)

We have some big houses in this region. There used to be multi-generation, extended families living in them. I used this type of image, for example, to illustrate the level of support that an individual child received. Of course, that does not mean there was no family violence inside the house. I used the image, and compared it to the single-family structure, and to the single-parent family living in an apartment.

A lot of my focus was a specific type of domestic violence, child neglect and abuse. Just as our culture has a fractured sense of family, we too often limit our perception of "domestic violence" to husbands and wives. But it is, in fact, any violence that goes on within the context of family life, in or relating to the home.

Likewise, "violence" should not be viewed in a limited sense. At its worst, of course, it involves homicide. But there are many, many other very destructive forms of violence. Our goal as "pace-makers" has to include confronting all of these. This does not mean that every individual has to focus equally on every form, for this would be impossible. More, it would limit our ability to exercise our potential for group strength. There can and should be people who focus on efforts to provide "safe houses" for women (and their children) who are being battered by their husbands or boyfriends. That is a huge issue, which presents a societal crisis, which requires that there are dedicated individuals and groups who specialize in this area.

But, there are also serious issues involving men who threaten and batter men; men who threaten and batter children; men who threaten and batter elderly relatives; women who threaten and batter men; women who threaten and batter women; women who threaten and batter children; and women who threaten and batter elderly relatives. In decades of experience working in human services, I have had experience in dealing with all of these issues. And, as a result of that experience, I am convinced that not only are the problems closely related, but the ability to work towards solutions requires a coordinated effort, as well.

I do not expect that my opinion is going to change anyone else’s opinion. But, perhaps if DUers recognize the advantages of open and honest dialogue, we can move forward in developing our understanding of the nature of the problems of domestic violence, and from there, we can agree on how we can best confront it. For non-violence should unite us, into a powerful force – far more powerful than an angry, violent thug, or any group of thugs looking to gain "power" by violent, destructive means.

That choice is ours’.

Peace,
H2O Man

[varelse]

1. K&R

[H2O Man]

13. Thank you.

[NYC_SKP]

2. K&R. Men, women, children, the elderly. Abuse and neglect are not exclusive.

Thank you.

:kick:

[H2O Man]

15. Right.

I used to really enjoy doing public presentations, especially for the Q&A part .... where I had the opportunity to talk with people, and try to focus on the connections between childhood and adult experiences. By no coincidence, it was the people who were at the grandparent stage who understood this concept best. In part, it was likely because they had lived at a time when there actually was a stronger family safety net, providing extended family support for children.

I remember one lady, who was from a local family that is very rich, politically powerful, and very republican. I'd always had a high opinion of her. She asked me if I was familiar with a J. Edgar Hoover quote, about the need to fight violent crime by focusing on the high chair, rather than the electric chair? I told her I was familiar with it, so much so that I was aware that the FBI Director had borrowed the quote from Malcolm X. I remember her being the lead agent in terms of encouraging the women's group to donate generously to the program that I was promoting -- which focused on those high chairs. I suspect this shows that people from a wide range of perspectives can find common ground on this type of issue.

[NYC_SKP]

22. J. Edgar Hoover borrows from Malcom X. It doesn't get much better than that.

Great anecdote. I'll remember that.

:thumbsup:

[BlancheSplanchnik]

3. sometimes I tend to think I am the great know-it-all.....

so this particular part of your post really struck me on a personal level. Just made me think, and hope I can internalize this understanding.

"Now, no one person (least of all, me) has all the answers. In fact, in the discussions on DU, there is a recognizable phenomenon, where those who claim insight on absolute truths, and react harshly to other opinions – and those holding different viewpoints –expose the inherent weaknesses of their limited perspective."

Thank you H20 Man, from another rural upstate NYer.

[H2O Man]

16. Probably even my

best friends on DU are aware of my habit of thinking that I know a heck of a lot about many issues. Certainly, my family has been subjected to it. And I say that only half-jokingly, for our attitudes, our words, and even our silence can be forms of aggression and, indeed, violence.

If I have helped people to consider this issue in a larger or slightly different manner than they previously have, or if this OP encourages "peaceniks" to step up -- either here, at home, or at work -- then we have all benefitted. Because, after all, we are all in tis together.

Thank you for your response. You have brought a smile to my wrinkled face.

[bobbolink]

4. What I have found is that "progressives" consider themselves so aware, and preach peace,

yet SPEAK to eachh other in violent ways.... not hearing the pain, anger, fear of the words of the other.

Yet, there isn't a willingness to learn very basic communication and listening skills.

Until we can speak TO EACH OTHER in understanding, and hear the pain of the other, there is no hope of reaching peace across the globe.

Without that peaceful communication, there will be interpersonal violence.

It's a simple equation.

We have to be willing to enter the world of the OTHER.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. A perfect and empathetic answer!

Your sentence here says it all so very well:

Until we can speak TO EACH OTHER in understanding, and hear the pain of the other, there is no hope of reaching peace across the globe.

I wish I could recommend your individual post...

[bobbolink]

32. Thank you! As you know, most people can't hear that simple statement.

This is pain in that sentence, so I really appreciate your reply.

:pals:

[H2O Man]

18. Lessons are best taught

by example, rather than words.

There is too much road rage on the information highway, including DU. It is a symptom of the disease that poses the greatest threat to our society.

[bobbolink]

33. I used to think that, also.

However, after years of listening to others and being told that I was even more helpful to them than their therapist (! sad, that), I had to come to the sad realization that people will take what they need without considering that others also need it, and learn how to reciprocate.

[Me.]

5. I Have No Opinion On The Woods Matter

Because I don't have a clue as to what really happened though I've heard all the rumors. I have to say that's it's stunning how much air time has been given to this matter and how many people have suggested that the public is owed an explanation.

[live love laugh]

8. I agree. Too much air time. He owes no explanation. nt

[Celebration]

11. if a crime was committed

The state has an interest in pursuing it. However, since he does not wish to talk to authorities, we will never know.

[H2O Man]

20. What do you get when

you cross journalism with reality tv? The news focusing on "our right" to know what happened.

If a crime was committed, and the legal system treats the Woods family differently than they do others, that is a valid issue to discuss. And the issue of domestic violence is, too. But the current reporting and gossip is sad, indeed.

[Me.]

24. Feasting

It seems that the holiday turkey wasn't enough of a meal and feasting on other's misery is becoming the norm

[live love laugh]

7. I think the economy will bring more people together under one roof and the consequences

could be more domestic violence. I believe it is a serious issue too. My emotional scars from a childhood of domestic violence have taken decades to heal.

[H2O Man]

21. Domestic violence

tends to have a comorbidity with other factors related to family dysfunction. When a family experiences a significant loss of income, and crowding takes place, it can certainly be a serious source of stress and anxiety. And while not everyone who experiences stress and anxiety becomes violent, those who are prone to violent generally become more likely to behave in that manner when they are under pressure.

[bobbolink]

34. With enough stress and anxiety, EVERYONE will react. In some way.

Yes, some will turn it inward and harm themselves.

Others will turn it outward.

Without caring support, those are the only two choices.

And, yes, our society much prefers people to turn it inward.

That way, money can be made by prescribing drugs and locking people up.

[zeemike]

9. A large factor in violence goes unsaid by most people

And that is the effect that the media has on us.
Virtually every program contains ether violence or the rationalization of violence....and I am thinking here of programs like 24 and most cop shows and dramas....even science fiction is all about wars in space and rarely about space exploration.
And then you add video games that are as violent as can be, and most people blow off any suggestion that it has an impact on the young minds that play them by saying....Well my kids play them and the are not out committing acts of violence.

By all of this we have conditioned people to accept violence as part of life, and with it the fear that keeps us hiding in our houses with doors locked....we get our fix of excitement from the TV or by playing cyber warfare blowing apart our images on that screen.

But all of this has a positive effect from the standpoint of the militarist thinker....no shortage of volunteers to put into practice the skills they have learned from a lifetime of watching and playing violence on the tube....it is much easer for them to blow someone away for real if you have seen it all before many times in play.

I know that this is not going to be popular but all of this plays an important part in real violence....but I will be scoffed at for saying it i am sure.

[H2O Man]

23. I agree.

We live in a culture that tends to promote violence as an acceptable, just form of problem-solving. And I do not mean defensive violence, for people have the right to protect themselves from an attack.

[Joe Chi Minh]

41. I'm inclined to think that this promotion of violence has been a deliberate policy

of your federal government. Empires would obviously find its effects useful, as they do poverty.

Young men with little control over their violent propensities would, ironically, also render themselves more manageable by government, since greater power by an order of magnitude is customarily exercised at the end of a telephone line. And your rulers 'fight fire with fire' with a draconial penal system. Sometimes even cry, 'fire', when someone simply lights a match, thereby building your enormous slave gulag for the enrichment of private individuals of various kinds, such as prison shareholders, probation officers, psychologists, et al.

A responsible, well-behaved populace (by derivation, 'docile' means, 'teachable') would not yield themselves so readily to the unconscionable orders and designs of a corrupt, far-right elite. Heck your politicians could end up being replaced by the kind that govern the Scandavian countries.

[H2O Man]

44. Absolutely.

It serves a purpose -- a few benefit from the suffering of the many; hence, it is absolutely promoted.

[Joe Chi Minh]

51. Easier to divide and rule, where there is already violence and division.

[democrank]

10. Thank you for this, H20 Man

Violence IS a "symptom of an illness" and our culture should be in the emergency room.

I grew up in violence, neglect and worse and have wondered so many times how different life might have been had one, single adult taken a stand against what was happening.

How much longer can we look away from our dreadful foster care system, our overflowing prisons, our street gangs? How much longer are we going to latch onto foolishness like the line at a Sarah Palin book signing while we ignore homeless children shuffling up and down our sidewalks? It blows my mind that we`re bombarded with ads about wrinkles but ignore bleeding, devastated orphans in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

~PEACE~

[H2O Man]

26. I agree.

People in general have built up defenses that keep them from seeing the uncomfortable truth about the levels of violence inside of so many homes in America. It is easier to worry about wrinkles than abused kids. It seems more fun to poke fun of someone like Sarah Palin on the home computer, than to become involved in community-based efforts to address issues of poverty -- and poverty is indeed a form of violence.

"The kindest thing that I can say about my childhood is that I survived it," one of my friends wrote on the first page of his autobiography. Today, he is an advocate for the unjustly convicted, and active in efforts to lessen the levels of violence in prison. Certainly, children living in violent homes have been unjustly convicted, and sentenced to years of incarceration in a setting that should be unacceptable in our society.

[bobbolink]

36. "Poverty is indeed a form of violence." WHEN will "progressives" GET this????

[azul]

12. Violence begets violence

"Likewise, until our society produces enough people who recognize that non-violence has to be both advocated and put into practice – in our homes, on the streets of every hamlet and every city, and actively within our institutions – the diseases associated with violence will spread and consume more and more people, as well as the very environment that we are a part of."

Well said.

I hold that violence to animals, domestic and industrial, numbs people to hurting each other. Our actions set examples that are passed on to children and to other species.

Trouble is, that humans succeeded too well by being violent, and that behavior is still considered by many to be the model of success. Now that we have conquered the whole planet and have limited legal means to express pent-up brutal nature and training, we act like rats in an overcrowded maze: we have at each other.

Love and peace sadly are not as profitable as war and brutality in this banking system society.
And so it goes.

[H2O Man]

27. I agree, 100%

"For that which befalleth the sons of man befallests beasts; even one thing befalleth themas the one dies, so dies the other; yes, as one breath they are, so that a man has no preeminence above a beast; for all is vanity. ...
"Who knows that the spirit of man goes upward, and that the spirit of the beasts downward to the earth?"
--Ecclesiates 3: 19 & 21

[ShortnFiery]

14. Maybe FRANCE should invade the USA and keep us honest - not unlike we're doing in Afghanistan? eom

[H2O Man]

28. No "Freedom Fries" for you!

Thanks!

[Kalyke]

17. A question to you that I formed listening to this on the way into work:

Is the betrayal of vows held sacred by one member of a marriage and violated by another, itself, an act of violence?

I know from personal experience that I was enraged that my first husband would cheat on me because, beyond the betrayal, I felt he put me in the untenable position of having to choose whether to stay with him for our son's sake or divorcing him for my own sake. Cheating is not only an act that violates the sanctity of an agreed-upon marriage of fidelity, it is also many times coupled with a violent and abrupt end of the lives of children as they know it. They will suffer, either from the divorce or the emotional depression of the cuckolded parent. (I know parenting classes tell parents not to bad-mouth the other parent during a divorce, but, let's face it, the children live in the house with the parent. They are going to witness, inadvertently, the emotional stress the cuckolded parent feels).

I ended up divorcing for my own sake and my son is a well-adjusted, straight-A, inquisitive boy who loves the sister I later had with my second husband.

But, that isn't always the case. Many children of divorce or in household where trust is depleted and love is non-existent between the parents do not fare so well.

(FWIW, this does not mean that agreed upon open marriages don't work. If consenting adults agree on this, then there would be no "cheating," per se, and no one would feel violated. The issue here is the betrayal, poor decision-making and failure to determine consequences the cheating parent made while previously agreeing to a marriage of fidelity).

[H2O Man]

19. Interesting question.

My answer would be that, except in the case of an "open marriage," where both people recognize and willingly agree to participate in that relationship, that cheating on one's spouse is absolutely a form of violence. It defines a level of thoughlessness, selfishness, cruelty, and a lack of character, that I associate with those who inflict severe mental abuse on others.

[Kalyke]

30. I agree with you.

While it's not physical violence, per se, the act is as severe as any physical abuse.

[bobbolink]

37. Any betrayal is an act ot violence.

He not only destroyed your trust in him, a HUGE loss, but it also must have affected your own trust in yourself.... I'm guessing it brought about questioning yourself about your own ability to pick people who could love.

That is a big loss, and a huge betrayal.

[redqueen]

25. "non-violence should unite us"

Yes, it should.

K&R

[H2O Man]

29. It should,

and I think it eventually will. But, as ex-Beatle George used to sing, "It takes so long"!

[blogslut]

31. All I wanted to know wa whether or not Mr. Woods was okay

After watching the Balloon-Boy type coverage of the wreck on CNN, only to discover that the man was fine and this thing was likely the result of a domestic dispute, I have decided to refrain from commenting on the personal life of this couple.

However, nobody has the right to physically attack another, no matter their sex. As well, when an inside fight goes outside and that fight places the general public in harm's way, the parties responsible should be held responsible.

That's all I'm going to say.

[varelse]

43. That was my reaction as well

once assured that he was ok, I assumed that like any other adult, he would somehow find a way to address any private issues he might have that led to the accident.

[AuntPatsy]

35. Emotional abuse in many ways is not only equivalent to physical abuse but in many

cases it is what precedes the final outcome in that which when emotional attacks are no longer satisfying for those with the tendency toward abusing others then using physical force becomes the next step for full gratification...

Just my opinion but all in all when one resorts to being abusive it is because they no longer find themselves in control and for so many control is paramount...loss of control due to perhaps loss of income..the inability to not only take care of personal needs but of loved ones needs...the inability to control outcomes of wrongs perceived by the individual against either themselves or others...

Even on du some find themselves becoming abusive though in this case on the net such amounts to more of the mental abuse phrase...long time members...some I admire in the way they express themselves with words fall into such a trap of allowing themselves to be seen as abusive...

I cannot count the times I have read many on here write their thoughts that becoming physical against another has entered their minds simply because of a loss of being able to control a certain situation whether it be something that has occurred to another repeated in the news cycle or simply that they were unable to change another dur's mind about heading in a certain direction regarding how one perceived a certain situation..

Your right in that men batter not only women but men also, children and even the elderly...as do women who are just as guilty, as do the youth whom regardless of immaturity can be just as guilty of such...abuse is abuse regardless of whom is inflicting such or to whom it is directed which some seem to forget when in their minds one that is being abused seemingly has the strength to stop such, obviously not always true and in some ways that type of belief only leads to abuse that many be never ending...


I know I make little sense at times but no one is perfect...no one...and therein lies a huge problem with humane mindsets....in some people's minds they themselves are as close to perfection as is possible and more often than not will refuse to entertain even the slightest thought that another one seemingly less perfect can be entertained as worthy enough to be taken seriously..perhaps in another's mind that same person is viewed as being unable to take seriously slightly if at all...and that is when the pot begins to boil over.....and the war of words commence....on the internet such is not truly a huge problem but in a real life setting such can and often does lead to not only an exchange of harsh words but a need for using physical force...that being in that persons mind the only way to ensure their facade of what perfection entails will hopefully one day occur..

Many on du both right and left find themselves using words to describe being able to use physical violence in order to either win an argument or ensure another beings and soon to mirror their point of view...

None of this is new...humans have had this need to be right since the beginning of time..for far too many being right seems to ensure they remain in control...when in reality..such actions whether it be verbal or physical force only proves they have lost control period...


JMHO sorry if too long..but I enjoyed your op and felt a need to simply share my own thoughts on the subject...perhaps if more people paid attention to what is truly a very real problem in our society perhaps there would be less need for war after war which seems to be never ending when humans are involved in just simply interacting with each other...

Is it so important to be seen as being right all the time? Perhaps none of us are right and all of us are wrong, perhaps we should simply do the best we can without others being hurt by our actions and or words and quit expecting others to mirror our own beliefs on how one should live and speak...

[H2O Man]

45. I agree.

I've seen many, many people -- both children and adults -- who have suffered very serious damage from emotional abuse. They begin to believe the lie: that they are worthless, abnormal, and "bad."

"Who taught you to hate yourself?" was perhaps the most amazing and powerful question that Malcolm X used to ask people. Oh, I loved that question. And more, I love that Malcolm taught people that their self-hatred was based upon lies.

(And, no, your response was not too long! Not at all! Thanks!)

[democrank]

38. Kick

~PEACE~

[intaglio]

39. An interesting article on domestic violence by Patrick Stewart

From "The Guardian" http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/nov/27/patrick-stewart-domestic-violence

From Monday morning to Friday tea time he worked as a semi-skilled labourer, and was diligent and sober. Often funny and charming, he was always rich in the personal stories of warfare and adventure that thrilled me. But come Friday night, after the pubs closed, we awaited his return with trepidation. I would be in bed but not asleep. I could never sleep until he did; while he was awake we were all at risk. Instead, I would listen for his voice, singing, as he walked home. Certain songs were reassuring: I'll Take You Home Again, Kathleen; I'll Walk Beside You . . . But army songs were not a good sign. And worst of all was silence. When I could only hear footsteps it was the signal to be super-alert.

[H2O Man]

46. Very good.

I suspect that many others can relate to the anxiety that the quiet footsteps could cause.

[maxpower]

40. Well said

Excellent post as always. I hope you are feeling better. Take care of yourself, we need you.


Peace,
Max

[H2O Man]

47. Thanks!

I'm starting to feel a good bit better, though I find that recovery time stretches out a lot longer as I age.

[maxpower]

50. I am glad to hear you are doing well.

Just keep getting better. Stay strong. Your words and wisdom are needed now, they seem to keep me - and many others - off the ledge. Be well.


Peace,
Max

[bridgit]

42. K&R'd, we do allot of driving...

Some of our stops take us into idyllic small town settings up in the Sierras; tall Redwood & pine stands beside ferns lining pretty little sparkling rivers

And the occasional waterfall

One day, in one such setting, I was in the ladies room. When I closed the door on the stall there were 2-3 posters and informationals directing women experiencing domestic violence to services where their identities would be secured, along with notes from other women that provided their own numbers and experiences scrawled with pencils, pens, and lipstick

In the parking lot I mentioned it to my husband and asked why he thought the information was placed where it was - he began shaking his head and when I asked him why that he swept with his hand through this idyllic postcard-like High Sierra landscape saying it was a grand sadness part of the great lie that idyllic settings come, as a natural-given: with peace of mind for all

The informationals were placed where even crying women freshly abused could look up from tear filled palms and see others reaching into her with help and options where her abuser has no intention of offering either

Some, being exponentially explosive and violent; they were placed where their abusers would least likely see them

End Domestic Violence

[H2O Man]

48. Right.

That was probably an ideal place for those posters.

[G_j]

49. so true

beautiful, MLK would love you!