The world's most prosperous (and happiest) countries are also its least religious...

[Fumesucker]

The world's most prosperous (and happiest) countries are also its least religious, new research states.

http://www.miller-mccune.com/culture_society/who-needs-god-when-we-ve-got-mammon-1626

From Dostoyevsky to right-wing commentator Ann Coulter we are warned of the perils of godlessness. "If there is no God," Dostoyevsky wrote, "everything is permitted." Coulter routinely attributes our nation's most intractable troubles to the moral vacuum of atheism.

<snip>

In a paper posted recently on the online journal Evolutionary Psychology, independent researcher Gregory S. Paul reports a strong correlation within First World democracies between socioeconomic well-being and secularity. In short, prosperity is highest in societies where religion is practiced least.

Using existing data, Paul combined 25 indicators of societal and economic stability — things like crime, suicide, drug use, incarceration, unemployment, income, abortion and public corruption — to score each country using what he calls the "successful societies scale." He also scored countries on their degree of religiosity, as determined by such measures as church attendance, belief in a creator deity and acceptance of Bible literalism.

Comparing the two scores, he found, with little exception, that the least religious countries enjoyed the most prosperity. Of particular note, the U.S. holds the distinction of most religious and least prosperous among the 17 countries included in the study, ranking last in 14 of the 25 socioeconomic measures.

<snip>

More at the link

[Warpy]

1. Living without Irish Catholic guilt is an amazing experience

and I'd recommend it to everyone except that many people find the compensation of a religious community to balance the guilt nicely.

However, being afraid not to believe and being afraid that community will find you out is the worst of all worlds.

This study doesn't surprise me.

[madokie]

3. Living without religion

that would be me.

[mwb970]

106. For me, it's like sports.

I'm not interested, so it doesn't exist in my life. Same with religion. I haven't been to church since the last time my parents made me go, in November 1967.

[treestar]

85. Yeah that's bad stuff

And it's no surprise life is more enjoyable without it.

And with Puritanism.

[RKP5637]

2. Glad to see it in print, but not surprised at all. n/t

[anonymous171]

4. State enforced Atheism would make everyone happy then.

[sudopod]

10. just because you liek mudkips

doesn't mean you can put words in peoples' mouths.

[anonymous171]

36. The implied argument was that being atheist makes you happy

I happen to think it is the other way around.

[sudopod]

47. Neat how no one's accusing you of starting Inquisition II

isn't it?

[Fumesucker]

87. Being happy makes you an atheist..

Yep, that sounds about right.

[On the Road]

117. You've Never Known any Happy Religious People?

[Fumesucker]

131. I was responding to someone who said this:

The implied argument was that being atheist makes you happy

I happen to think it is the other way around.

I just stated their argument in a positive manner.

You noticed that it sounded a bit ridiculous, which was basically my point.

[hyphenate]

132. Yeah, I have!

If ignorance is bliss, then only willfully stupid, evangelical fundies are happy!

[dalaigh lllama]

89. non-religious does not equal atheist -- that's faulty logic

Certainly all atheists are non-religious, but not all folks who don't adhere to a religion are atheists. They might just prefer not going to a church that tells them what they must believe.

[Djinn]

91. and EVERY religious person IS an atheist

It's not possible to believe in ALL humanities gods, at least not without some serious dissociative disorder issues, those of us who profess atheism just extended to one more god than the rest

[ZombieHorde]

12. How could a state enforce atheism?

Telling people they are not allowed to believe in God does not mean they will stop believing in God.

[anonymous171]

43. It would be pretty easy actually. 3 steps:

1. Forcibly disband all organized religious hierarchies and institutions. Then confiscate all of their property.
2. Ban private schools
3. Teach Atheism in public schools

[ZombieHorde]

54. My guess is this would lead to a civil war, and theists have the numbers.

Even if atheists won the war, a government can not stop beliefs.

Many people would secretly teach their kids religious beliefs and some people may gain religious beliefs from reading about religions, such as Buddhism.

[Bill McBlueState]

124. this happened in the USSR

and people who wanted to believe in god(s), kept on believing.

[Fumesucker]

14. And state enforced religion would make everyone miserable..

You have evidence that the nations in the study have state enforced atheism?

Amazing the things you learn on DU..

[movonne]

17. Maybe not everyone but it would me....

[dysfunctional press]

20. it doesn't need to be state enforced- all you really need is a quality educational system...

and wait a few generations.

as the intelligence of the country rises, it's religiosity quotient will decrease all by itself.

you can't force someone to NOT believe, any more than you could force someone TO believe. all you can hope to do is to educate it out of society.

[mamaleah]

22. We have a pretty good education system. Not great, but pretty good. So do you mean

that schools should be telling kids not to be religious? And what would give them the right to tell a kid at a public school that?

If not what sort of education do you mean? Mandatory? Voulntary but those not choosing to undergo it will be seen as lesser?

[dysfunctional press]

27. i'm saying that education is the enemy of religion.

as people become more enlightened, more and more of them are able to comprehend their way through the bullshit and realize that man created gods in his own image, not the other way around.

[mamaleah]

29. There are many people who are educated and are theists and many

people who are not educated who are atheists.

And not everyone who is religious is miserable. Really, that's just projection.

[dysfunctional press]

32. i didn't say it was 100%, ...

that's why it also takes some time.
religion is a tough addiction for society to break- but education is definitely the key.

most people who use heroin don't consider themselves miserable either.

[mamaleah]

Again

What is this plan? Shun those that refuse to go along? That's just as bad as shunning those that do not agree with your religious belief. How about just not giving a damn? I really do not care that you are an atheist, so why do you care if someone is Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, a mix of the above?

[Fumesucker]

40. Because so many people who are religious try to get their religious precepts enshrined..

As secular law.

It's pandemic in the US for a certain brand of "Christian" to try and have their theology enforced as secular law.

See the latest attempts by the Catholic church to have abortion made illegal for an example.

[dysfunctional press]

41. educate and wait.

i care, simply because i would rather see more people, and society as a whole, a lot happier. (didn't you read the op?)

[mamaleah]

44. I guess I really do not believe that people who are religious are miserable and that atheists are

automatically happier.

But I forget, the study was published online, so it's the truth.

[Fumesucker]

46. That isn't what the study says..

And I think you know that.

[dysfunctional press]

49. what he said...

[Cerridwen]

58. Education versus schooling.

Not all schooling is educational; not all education (wisdom) comes from school.

"I freed a thousand slaves I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves." ~Harriet Tubman (emphasis added)

[spoony]

65. In other words, you decide what "real" education is. Neat. nt

[Cerridwen]

67. Do you actually argue points or are you stuck putting

words into other's mouths?

I know a lot of schooled people who don't have the common sense of a slug and I know a lot of un-schooled people who have intelligence beyond any "world leader" quoted in the news today.

[spoony]

72. You're trying, hard, to delineate between education and schooling

but you have presented no standards to go by except your opinion that religious people clearly couldn't have been properly "educated." The paucity of the argument pretty much sinks itself without my help.

[Cerridwen]

77. "religious people clearly couldn't have been properly 'educated.'"

Please quote where I said or implied that.

I pointed out that "schooling" (here, I'll use the quotes for you), that is, having attended school, does not in and of itself guarantee an "education" or, perhaps more explicitly, the acquisition of knowledge or even, dare I say it, intelligence or wisdom.

If the points of my observation are beyond you, then I'd suggest you hang out at a university or two. Get to know a few Ph.D.s, students, and some of the administration. It's quite enlightening. It might even increase your wisdom; if you care to learn.

[spoony]

81. That actually was a different poster, mea culpa

I have no problem with the general idea that schooling is not education is not wisdom. It's defining the lines that gets tricky. But you weren't the poster I was thinking of in this subthread, so I do apologise.

[Cerridwen]

82. Accepted and thank you. That was very gracious. Perhaps more than I deserved.

I bet we really *are* on the same side. *chuckle*

[Fumesucker]

23. Hence the destruction of the educational system in the USA..

Just look around and see who is most against a strong public education system... The fundies..

[dysfunctional press]

28. yep.

misery loves company.

[imdjh]

73. Amazingly, your claim has logic on its side and yet no basis in reality.

Part of the Christian fundamentalist propaganda materiel is the undeniable fact that the Christian sphere has produced the social and technological advances of the last (choose a number of centuries).

Of course, it's also hard to get people to allow for the possibility that Western Civilization thrived despite religion, and that in its absence we might actually have warp drive and particle weapons by now.

[dysfunctional press]

78. most of that historical educating was done through religious institutions...

who taught that their flavor of religion was as factual as algebra or geometry.
a quality public education system that is religious-neutral will allow people to approach the subject with a more discerning mind.

[imdjh]

79. I can't say that that was my experience.

We were taught Creation as fact in third period, and Darwin as fact in fifth; with no attempt made to explain or reconcile the difference.

[dysfunctional press]

83. how was it not your experience...?

you said yourself that you were taught creation as fact.
as far s reconciliation- our lutheran high school tried to use the concept that evolution was the method that god employed after creation
i'm not aware of anything in the bible that says that the flora/fauna were all created in their current forms...but then, i didn't always pay a lot of attention in theology classes.

historically, it wasn't that big an issue until darwin showed up, anyway.

[Wednesdays]

88. The man of the day today

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

116. No, those countries are happy exactly because the atheism is NOT state enforced. It comes naturally

from higher quality education.

Me, I think the causal relationships are: better education causes BOTH happiness AND increase in atheism.

[bik0]

134. Evolution teaches us that there is no purpose to life

Religions stifle creativity and freedom of thought by imposing the forced belief of a purposeful higher authority. Fortunately the reality of evolution trumps the make believe world of religion. Evolution is not dependent on an external purpose but relies on the infinite possibilities of creative adaptation of the individual organism.

An external purpose inhibits creativity and has no role in the evolution of life or individual lives. The only purpose with meaning and power is that which is imagined by each individual internally. Individual purpose is discouraged by religion as selfish and sinful however in the end, the truth of evolution will gradually be revealed to those who feel boxed in and frustrated by the singular consequences (good vs.evil) of their religious beliefs.

[niyad]

5. not surprised in the least--the abrahamic religions don't do much for fostering joy.

[bananas]

6. Evolutionary Psychology is pseudoscience.

http://www.google.com/#q=site%3Arationallyspeaking.blogspot.com+%22evolutionary+psychology%22+pseudoscience

[anonymous171]

7. Depends on how the research is conducted.

And if any research is done at all.

[Cerridwen]

8. pseudoscience examining mythology. Your point?

[bananas]

9. The sci-fi channel does that better and is more entertaining.

Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, ...

[Cerridwen]

11. Don't forget V, Firefly, Farscape, Star Trek, Babylon 5, etc.

:D

[RufusTFirefly]

13. Eureka! Correlation between religion and a safety net

The United States is somewhat unique in the "first world" for its emphasis on religion. That always perplexed me. After all, aside from the U.S., most of the ultra-religious countries are comparatively poor, developing nations.

I'm pleased to see that Paul solved the mystery the same way I did

"Popular religion," Paul proposes, "is a coping mechanism for the anxieties of a dysfunctional social and economic environment."

I maintain that if we had a stronger social safety net -- universal health care, for example -- that the role of religion would be marginalized as far fewer people would feel balanced on a knife blade, anxious for some sort of explanation for their desperate, precarious lives.

[havocmom]

15. +1

BRAVO

[Cerridwen]

16. Or, "Religion is the opiate of the masses."

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."

It is what "the masses" use to allow them to function day-to-day in a world "created" to keep them oppressed and under control. Ownership society? Yep, we are the ones owned.

Religion is one of the many tools used to justify the world in which we live.

[Fumesucker]

18. “Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”.

-Denis Diderot

[Cerridwen]

21. Agree completely.

Now I'll sit here and wait for the "but, but, look at {insert favorite religion here} has helped humanity" completely oblivious to the fact that {insert favorite religion here} has contributed to many of the problems humanity faces by propping up the various kings and owners throughout history and called it "God's will" and "God's Grace".

[Djinn]

92. Never heard that quote before

but I sure will use it often now - love it

[dysfunctional press]

24. but to be fair- that statement was mad before televisio had been invented.

most people who even go to church anymore spend maybe an hour or so a week at it...
how much time do most people devote to their viewscreens on a weekly basis?

[mamaleah]

25. Or their video games. Or the internet (where we know every opinion is really fact)

Religion is hardly the opiate anymore. There are many more, however some folks are still caught up in thinking its all religion.

[Cerridwen]

30. And other folks are far too invested in giving religions a pass on their

historic and current uses.

Religion is but one of the tools. It's quite a popular one is the US these days or did you forget the candidates' "I'm more religious than you" forum we were subjected to during the primaries?

[mamaleah]

31. Yes ever Presidential candidate does that.

Somehow, the President being religious really doesn't bother me. Nor would it bother me if the President was an atheist.

[Cerridwen]

52. Bully for you. It does bother many of the rest of us.

Those who believe as you do, are part and parcel of the problem; you think it's okay, or at the very least you do not question, the "need" to require a religious test for the highest public office in this country. Hell, it's even enshrined (*snort*) in our Constitution that religious tests are disallowed.

To sit back and sanguinely accept what has happened to our political process and the insertion of religion into governing this country is exactly a way to wake up one morning wondering how the hell we started writing legislation from bible tracts.

[Fumesucker]

33. Television and the internet claim to be revealed truth?

I did not know that.

/Johnny Carson

[mamaleah]

34. They certainly have numbed peoples minds.

And how many idiots think if they see it on CNN or read it on "Rob's REAL REAL truth blog (not to be confused with Rob's REAL truth blog - that guy lies)" they automatically assume it's true?

[Fumesucker]

35. Not quite the same thing as claiming to be revealed truth..

I'm pretty sure you know that though.

[mamaleah]

37. Yes but it is an opiate. And one too many ignore.

Because going after religion is far more "cool".

[Fumesucker]

48. Who is "going after" religion?

The guilty flee when none pursueth.

I'm pretty negative about television and popular entertainment too.

To the point that I don't watch TV and the only "videogame" I play is Flight Simulator.

[Cerridwen]

53. Cool? Or pertinent? I say pertinent.

Questioning religions and their followers is still plenty taboo in this country. Let me know next time you see an atheist or Muslim or Jewish or Hindu or...presidential candidate hit the national stage, will ya.

[mamaleah]

57. Yes, as a Jew, I have *sob* suffered under the tyranny of Christian Presidents.

It's been awful, just awful.

Somehow, I am still allowed to go to shul though. I have fared better than my brethren in Russia ever did.

All the snark aside, I really am not someone who cares what religion you are or are not. It really doesn't bother me. Maybe I'm just not angry enough.

[Cerridwen]

62. Nice attempt to derail by repeating things never stated.

Perhaps you'd like to read up on the history of this country and its so-called religious freedom. There's a great book entitled "Under the Cope of Heaven". It's quite enlightening. You could also read up on the history of other countries and their forays into putting various religions in power. Of course, you'd have to be interested in educating yourself and you may have to move out of apathy. I'll leave that to you.

BTW, the opposite of happy isn't angry; it's apathy. As I said, nice attempt at derailing.

"Ignorance is bliss."

[spoony]

71. How can one repeat something never stated?

And, ignorance is bliss? Then by your logic wouldn't the findings in the OP be exactly the opposite?

[Cerridwen]

76. "How can one repeat something never stated?" Precisely.

It's called, making it up as you go along.

I'll use quotation marks next time so you can follow along.

"And, ignorance is bliss? Then by your logic wouldn't the findings in the OP be exactly the opposite?"

Since I was replying to the poster's sanguine state based on an apparent ignorance of history, um, not so much. Again. Nice try. It's tough to think in only binaries, huh?

As to the OP, sorry you're having a problem with secular society appearing to be more prosperous and happy than those heavily influenced by religion. There are still many other countries on this planet who offer religion as law. My sincerest wish (*snort*) is that the US not become one of them. Their histories are really ugly.

[Cerridwen]

26. Before televangelists?

Interesting how the two dovetailed into a nice control mechanism, isn't it.

If you have a few minutes to spare, take a look at this video I found some time back. It is from the early days of television. (May 18, 1958)

Aldous Huxley

...{the new dictators will find} if you want to preserve your power indefinitely, you have to get the consent of the ruled, and this they will do partly by drugs.., partly by these new techniques of propaganda. They will do it by bypassing the rational part of man and appealing to his subconscious and his deeper emotions and physiology even...making him actually love his slavery.

...this is the danger that actually people may be in some ways be happy under the new regime. But they will be happy in situations in which they oughtn't to be happy..."

[bananas]

50. Prozac - the new opiate of the masses

"...this they will do partly by drugs...they will be happy in situations in which they oughtn't to be happy..."

[Cerridwen]

55. Augmenting the opiate(s) of the masses.

Take media manipulation, add religion(s), add pharmaceuticals, introduce secularized religious precepts ("personal responsibility, etc.), promote consumerism, adjust the "educational" system; mix, boil, simmer, distribute.

So many tools; so little comprehensive documentation and dissemination.

[Fumesucker]

61. Thanks for that, Cerridwen..

Very interesting to look back at Mr Huxley from fifty years in the future and see that he had one point oh so right and completely missed the one about Communism.

[Cerridwen]

68. You're welcome.

If you're ever bored for a day or so, take a look at the other videos posted to that site. "Live" history as it was happening. It always looks so different than what winds up written in the official texts.

[anonymous171]

38. Media has replaced the church as the opiate of the masses.

Religion now functions as the crack cocaine of the masses, getting us all agitated over nothing.

[hyphenate]

133. The quote that finally captured my attention

was that religion was a crutch for those who couldn't handle reality. It's been expressed in many different forms, of course, but the fact is that many believers say they wouldn't be moral if they didn't think there was hell and damnation in the afterlife.

Of course this begs the question as to exactly what makes atheists moral, because they can't blame fear of such horror as a motivating factor.

The ruling classes went in the opposite direction centuries ago, where they used heaven as an impetus to keep the peasants under control--work until it kills you, and then you can spend eternity in joy after you die. This was one of those areas where lack of an education worked in the nobility's favor--if more peasants were atheists, there would have been a revolution that would have made all other revolutions look like mere skirmishes.

[izquierdista]

59. And look where Christianity took off

When the Roman Empire was turning into a "dysfunctional social and economic environment".

[RufusTFirefly]

74. It's important to distinguish religion from a relgious instinct or impulse

Daniel Dennett, among others, in the book Breaking the Spell, suggests that religious beliefs may serve some sort of evolutionary purpose.

The problem, however, is that self-appointed religious authorities interpose themselves between a person and her/his religious impulses and provide a manipulative, self-serving explanation for what may well be a natural phenomenon.

It's fair to say that much of life -- including one's religious impulses -- is a mystery, and so for a certain type of person who is susceptible either to authority or cultural precedent or is simply desperate for answers, the relatively simple explanation for what they're feeling provides welcome relief.

An asymmetrical relationship typically arises as a consequence with the religious authority suddenly in a position of great power and influence, that, ironically, is almost godlike.

[rucky]

111. !!!

:thumbsup:

[pscot]

19. Religion mainly seems to cause people

to choose up sides and start slagging the other guys. Something we just can't seem to get enough of.

[TexasObserver]

39. That makes perfect sense.

The role of religion in society is controlling people, forcing them to behave in a manner consistent with the personal beliefs of those who seek to enforce such standards.

[Fumesucker]

45. I would adjust that statement a bit..

"forcing them to behave in a manner consistent with the *professed* beliefs of those who seek to enforce such standards."

We really have no way of knowing what people's personal beliefs truly are, all we know is what they profess those beliefs to be.

[Joe Chi Minh]

42. "Similarly suspicious discrepancies exist in International Crime Victims

Survey results. Reported rates of rape are two to twenty times higher in the U.S. than in other 1st world nations (Jay, 2004; MASA, 2003), but this only means that American females report being raped at far higher rates, not that American males are more prone to committing sexual assaults."

Pass....

[Fumesucker]

51. So you think that in societies with lower religious guilt that women would be less likely to report

A rape?

Hmmm.. I'm not sure I buy that.

[Joe Chi Minh]

86. No. I I thought the way he couched that statistic of between two and twenty,

or something like that, effectively dismissing whatever the true figures reported was, at best disingenuous; but the whole tenour of the article suggests to me it's bullshit from start to finish. If Denmark is such a hot-bed of robbery, how is it that their prison population, pro rata, is minuscule compared to those of the US and UK? And by the way, they are more like country clubs, in comparison, if I remember an article I read on them correctly.

Not only that, but anyone who doesn't believe that the US, generally, would be one of the most debauched societies in the world lives in fantasy-land. Its been the trail-blazer in pornography (a multi-billion dollar industry), lap-dancing, goodness knows what else, and now there's large-scale sexual slavery in the Mid West, according to a post on here the other day.

I expected to be shouted down by irate women on here when I mentioned that a female American professor on TV, here in the UK, said that most American women live in a more or less constant state of terror of rape. But on the contrary. It was met with silence, apart from one post by a very feisty type of poster, who confirmed it. Apparently, the supermarket car-park of all places is greatly feared.

[Arugula Latte]

56. Not surprising ...

Less religious countries would likely put more emphasis on education and rational thinking and problem solving rather than a "let Gawd and Jebus (or Mohammed or whatever) sort it out" mentality.

[mamaleah]

60. That;s funny.

You intentionally played with the spelling of "Gawd and Jebus" but did not with Mohammed. PC much?

[Fumesucker]

110. To the best of my knowledge there is no commonly recognized misspelling of the prophet's name..

Perhaps MoHAMed would satisfy you?

I have no problem being politically incorrect.

[Arugula Latte]

114. Yes. It's all a big conspiracy against you.

[spoony]

63. lol

My experience on DU, and the internet in general, does not support a correlation between atheism and happiness.

[Fumesucker]

64. Well, that is *certainly* a random sampling of people there..

:eyes:

Edited to add: And it's really impossible to understand how people thought of as the devil incarnate by their neighbors might be a touch unhappy with that.

[spoony]

66. Oops, is that more of the happiness seeping out?

But to some extent you're right, I don't suppose that ALL nonbelievers spend their entire lives online talking about religion. Maybe THOSE are the happy ones?

[Fumesucker]

80. Take a look at my posts..

I rarely talk about religion, in fact I don't think I've ever posted in the religion forum.

It just so happens I thought this was an interesting study.

[Djinn]

94. so an atheist talking about not believing proves they're unhappy

that's some strange logic you've got going there :eyes:

In Australia where less than 9% of the populace counts themselves as religious, atheism is RARELY discussed. I found the amount of talk about it amongst my American friends odd until I spent some time there. When it's not only assumed that you "believe" but you're considered a freak (or in Bush the Elders estimation a non citizen) then no wonder people talk about it.

When huge swathes think "intelligent design" is something children should be taught, when abortion providers have getting assassinated as an occupational health risk, where large numbers of people vote for a barely literate, highly dangerous President because he claims to be on God's side, when people CHEER for war in the Middle East because they see it as a sign of the rapture, no bloody wonder people talk about it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

69. You see what you want to see. -nt

[20score]

70. K&R

[laughingliberal]

75. I have a great idea! Let's start a country where we have seperation of church and state...

where there is no test of religion applied to those running for office and people who want to are free to practice their own religions....

oh...nevermind

[On the Road]

121. Separation of Church and State

is one thing that IMO has made the US more religious.

In many European states like Germany and the UK, there is either an official state church or churches that receive public support. Over the long term, it tends to weaken and delegitimize the institutions.

[jmondine]

84. Anyone else notice that "moral vacuum of atheism" was not in quotations?

[Djinn]

90. also - nations with highest religious belief tend to be more violent

I'll have a google around and see if I can find a few studies that I referenced when writing a paper on this subject a while back - slightly skewed by the fact that the heavily religious nations often tend to be piss poor backward ones but then you throw in the USA and have to wonder why a place so wrapped up in the goodness of (mostly) Jesus spends so much energy beating the crap out of one another and has a muder rate that's through the roof.

[1]

93. fuck that. how exactly do you measure "happy." bullshit article and bullshit science...

emphasis on bullshit science.

my god, you can cherry pick almost any facts under the guise of "science" now, can't you.

absurd...

[Fumesucker]

95. Eh, you can't measure "prosperous" either, can you?

Ever occur to you that people who aren't scared to death of losing their insurance and dying of some easily treatable condition might just feel a bit better about life than those who are?

Or that people who know if they lose their job they won't be forced to live in their car might feel a bit better about life than those who know they will?

Nah, that would be too hard for 1 person to figure out.

[1]

97. it doesn't change the fact that this study of "happy" is bullshit.

i'm not scared to death of losing my insurance. are you?

i'm not scared to death of losing my job. are you?

maybe that is the difference. i'm not scared to death. you appear to be.

i guess that changes your definition of happy.

but be "scared to death" by all means. if that makes you feel better. if that makes you "happy."

[Selatius]

102. Sadly, for a lot of Americans, losing insurance is a life and death issue.

The statistics are rather clear on the number of needless deaths due to lack of affordable health care in America. Comfort and the feeling of security in one's own position is a luxury too many people in the US cannot afford. For instance, try getting good health insurance coverage at very reasonable prices with a family history of cancer or a previous medical history of illness. Insurance actuaries would rank you as a very high risk proposition to them, and a fair number of them will not cover you outright.

"Happy" can't be quantified, but one could easily quantify suicides, crime rates, deaths due to lack of health care access, poverty rates, or the income gap between the lowest paid workers and the highest paid executives. From that, one is free to assign a subjective value. It is not a profound leap of logic, for instance, to assume a person who is seriously sick and without affordable health care is more worried about death than a person who does have good health care coverage.

[Fumesucker]

104. I have neither a job nor insurance..

So, no I'm not scared of losing either, I'm living the fucking reality.

[Djinn]

96. you can however measure equality and freedom from violence

BOTH of which you have a better chance of in nations where there is less religion. Even if you take the skewing factor that MOST highly religious places are nightmare third world disaster zones out the the picture you're still left with the unedifying fact that in the US there is MUCH higher disparities of wealth, MUCH more poverty and MUCH more violence than in heathen nations like Norway, New Zealand, UK, Australia, France etc etc

Make of it what you will.

[Liquorice]

98. I think they are the least religious as a result of being the most prosperous, and not

the other way around. In other words, people are generally more religious when they are broke and suffering, then when they are rich and happy, which is what the one guy in the article thinks as well. But organized religion is much different than spirituality.

I noticed that the article does skip China in the discussion, however, which is a pretty glaring exception.

[lib_wit_it]

99. Well duh. (sorry, it's late...)

[Betty Karlson]

100. Facts and figures please

Which religions seemingly "endulge" unhappiness and poverty?

Your OP is so generalising as to almost seem a piece of sarcasm.

[Fumesucker]

107. Here is the link to the actual paper which was included in the article..

http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/EP07398441_c.pdf

Here are the facts and figures the author of the study used to perform his analysis..

[Betty Karlson]

128. Thank you.

When I take in these figures, I venture the opinion that the biggest discrepency is not in "religion" in general, or for that matter in atheism. Rather, the biggest discrepency is found (between the happy and the less happy countries) in the presence of Bible Literalists - with the happy ones having less of them.

This should not surprise us: those given to interpretation rather than a prescripted set of rules tend to be more creative => finding more ways to express themselves and finding better ways to contribute to the general economy.

[Skittles]

101. not surprising

[Firstzar]

103. Well OF COURSE!

The very purpose of churches and synagogues is to make people feel dirty and worthless!

[mwb970]

105. One word: DUH!! /nt

[quaker bill]

108. It is important to remember

that global temperatures have increased as the number of pirates have declined. This is clear proof that the FSM loves pirates.

Correlation does not imply causation.

[Fumesucker]

109. Perhaps not, but when correlation after corelation is evident one should condider

That there just *might* be a causative factor involved.

The author of the paper analyzed many sets of data points which I have taken the liberty of posting upthread.

Edited for speling.

[Raster]

112. I'm just saying...

There are no gods. There are no devils. No angels and no demons. There is no heaven and there is no hell. There is only our natural world.
Religion is but myth and superstition--denying logic and defying fact. Religious bigotry hardens hearts. Religious faith enslaves minds.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

113. It's not just the religion...

It's the confluence of religion AND politics, something which is basically unique to the United States (at least among industrialized democracies). While other countries have religious practices, they don't allow religious matters to intrude upon their civic life the way we do here.

Can you imagine if the right-wing religious conservatives would STFU about contraception and if every kid above the age of twelve were given comprehensive sex education and free access to birth control? Think of how many unintended and terribly expensive (to the taxpayer) pregnancies would be avoided.

And that's just one example. Needle exchanges? Methadone clinics? The list goes on...

[UrbScotty]

115. The attacks on religion continue.

If they themselves can't act like real Democrats by treating people with respect, then many DUers have no place criticizing Dems in public office for the same.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

118. So, are those numbers bogus? -nt

[Raster]

125. Of course not. They're just not flattering to religion in general. That pisses some people off.

[spoony]

127. But they're HAPPY attacks

I know you can't tell and they look like the same angry, chip-on-the-shoulder attacks, but via the OP we know that they are in fact HAPPY. ;)

[TrogL]

119. Fallacy of Undivided Middle

There is a root cause underlying both.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

122. The article doesn't deny that possibility.

By the way, I think better education as a cause for both godlessness and happiness makes sense.

[Fumesucker]

130. Sorry. I don't quite follow you..

Root cause underlying both what?

[bobbolink]

120. I can think of an exception to that.

Although its not a "country".

Indian societies, before the conquest by Europeans, were quite prosperous and the people were healthy and content. Their spiritual beliefs and practices were very important to them, and for many, that is still the case.

Too bad we chose not to learn from them.

[redqueen]

123. I wonder if those in the lower castes could be described as content.

I suppose so, if they were raised from birth to believe that that's all they could expect from life.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

126. I think the poster above meant "Indians" as "Native Americans". -nt

[JNelson6563]

129. Awesome.

No surprise here.

Julie--godless heathen