What if a Serious Journalist Had Crashed the State Dinner

[Celebration]

Because he/she wanted to expose security leaks in the Secret Service? He/she would have broken the same laws that these reality TV freaks did. Would your outrage have been any different? Would you still want this person to be thrown in jail?

Look, like it or not, we are always going to have nutcases. But I have to say that these people served a very important function--they may have prevented a future assassination attempt. Think about it before you start throwing things like "embarrassment" around. Seriously! How important is that compared to the security of our President?

And, oh, yeah, for the sake of consistency in law, if you want them behind bars, you should want the serious journalist who tried something like this behind bars, too.

THINK, people.

[grantcart]

1. Serious journalist. You mean they went out and dug up a serious journalist

out of the graveyard and brought them to the WhiteHouse like a weekend at Bernie's?


They didn't just crash an event they crashed it with an eye to selling their story.


Jail time - of course.

[Celebration]

2. is there a law against

selling a story? I mean, these people are wackos, and I wouldn't pay them a cent. But the crime has nothing to do with selling a story, and everything to do with exposing security leaks.

[grantcart]

3. There is a law against lying to federal officials in entering special security zones

That they did it with the intent to sell their story moves it from being a somewhat innocent prank to an attempt to exploit a security lapse.


They aren't interested in selling their story they were auditioning for "Real Women of Washington DC" reality show and wanted to increase their chances of landing a spot on the show.


They should now be featured on MSNBC's Lockup.

[Orrex]

4. What if I stole $10,000 worth of merchandise from Costco

Because I wanted to expose the security loopholes in their loss prevention department? For the sake of argument, let's assume that I keep the merchandise in pristine condition and that I'll be happy to replace all of it on the shelves so that no residual cost is incurred.


The "embarrassment" angle of the current story is secondary; they broke the law and should face the consequences of that crime.

[Celebration]

5. depending on the facts

it might be a stretch to say that they broke the law.

They may have been just nodded into the party. We don't really know the facts. How many people would be put into jail for just walking into the wrong party? And not creating a scene?

[Orrex]

6. Do you really think they walked into the wrong party?

The wrong party on the Whitehouse lawn? :rofl:

By that logic, I could tell the good folks @ Costco that I took the merchandise from their store because I thought that it was my living room.

[Celebration]

8. no

they walked into a party they weren't invited to, and did not make a scene. How many people would be prosecuted for that?

[Orrex]

10. Nice way to spin it

They violated Whitehouse security by passing themselves off as people who were authorized to be there. The fact that the Secret Service screwed up doesn't mitigate the fact that they committed the crime.

And even if they didn't make a scene at the party itself, they certainly tripped over themselves in an effort to make a scene of it afterwards.



So if a guy accidentally throws his Frisbee over the Whitehouse fence and climbs the fence to retrieve it, you suggest that he should face no consequences because he didn't make a scene?

[Celebration]

11. passing themselves off?

Look, if they know they weren't invited, and lied to some Federal official and said they were invited, then I'm sure they are guilty of a crime. I don't know that there is evidence of that.

But I would still be happy overall that they did it, because it could possibly have averted a future assassination attempt--whether they sold their story or not. So, I might slap their wrist and have them do public service or something, but NO JAIL TIME.

[Orrex]

12. You make a great point, but it's still tangential

In exposing a security lapse, they have indeed done Obama a favor. But by the same token, Oswald demonstrated the security lapse of having the President drive around in a convertible, thereby doing a favor for subsequent presidents.

Look, if they know they weren't invited, and lied to some Federal official and said they were invited, then I'm sure they are guilty of a crime. I don't know that there is evidence of that.

That frankly doesn't make sense. If they weren't invited, then it's up to them to show that they thought they were invited; otherwise they breached security and must face the consequences. If that includes jail time, then that's their problem. I would suggest that they should pay a fine at least equal to whatever profit they wind up taking in for their crime.

Even if they didn't verbally lie to a Federal official, it doesn't matter. A 19-year-old who orders a drink at the bar has still committed a crime even if the bartender didn't card him.

[Celebration]

16. that would be a stretch

If security let them in, it would be pretty hard to turn that into lying to a federal officer. I would not want to try to argue that.

That would turn it into party crashing, but without anyone even asking them to leave. Not much of an offense. I doubt if a single person in the USA has been prosecuted for peacefully attending a party that they were not invited to attend, when nobody even realized that they weren't supposed to be there.

I'm not commenting on the Oswald thing. Ridiculous. The whole point is that a future assassination attempt was possibly avoided.

[Orrex]

17. Unauthorized entry into restricted territory is not "party crashing"

If they made any overture at all toward misrepresenting themselves (e.g., by showing up at the party and acting like they were authorized to be there) then they are guilty regardless of whether or not the Secret Service dropped the ball.

And "the Oswald thing" is hardly ridiculous, because it's just a matter of degree. Oswald demonstrated the exploitable hole in the existing security protocols, just like these two assholes have done. Sure, the particular way in which the hole was demonstrated varies in each case, but so what? It's a dynamic system, and the Secret Service has to try to anticipate security shortcomings and to respond to them as they're discovered.

I doubt if a single person in the USA has been prosecuted for peacefully attending a party that they were not invited to attend, when nobody even realized that they weren't supposed to be there.

You realize that that's irrelevant to the point of absurdity right? These two assholes weren't "peacefully attending a party." They were trespassing at a State function on government property.

[Celebration]

19. this time I completely disagree with everything you said

Or at least your characterization of it.

[Orrex]

21. Well, I'm not saying that I'm 100% correct

But I'm pretty sure that you're 100% wrong.

[question everything]

7. And now they are "willing" to tell their story for... half a million?

Throw them to jail!

Then they can tell their story.

[Celebration]

9. disgusting

but not illegal to sell a story.

[peacebird]

13. What happened to the 20 year old student who called TSA on weaknesses in their system

and then proved it by taking fake explosives and weapons onboard a plane? I thought the TSA had him arrested? Think it happened about 2003?

[aikoaiko]

14. If a journalist did it for a story, I would be more impressed with the reason, but would still want

them prosecuted if they broke a law. No free passes for journalists.

[NYC Liberal]

15. But they aren't serious journalists, and their point was not to "expose security leaks"

You claim that if we want these nutjobs prosecuted, we should want the journalist exposing security leaks prosecuted too. Not so.

They should be prosecuted, the hypothetical journalist should not. Intent matters. Journalists going after a story also have more protection under the law than two random idiots looking to crash a party.

[mamaleah]

18. Wouldn't change my opinion. Again, they didn't crash your frat party or bar mitzvah, they crashed

a WH function when we have quite possibly the most threatened President ever in office.

Those who let them in should be fired immediately and they should be prosecuted for making false statements to federal officials.

[notesdev]

20. Journalicus seriosa is extinct

so I'd say he'd end up in a biology lab somewhere