Mercedes Lewis, 11, dies of H1N1 flu. Stop telling me the "regular" flu kills more people.

[Bluebear]

Does it help to see a smiling face and and an actual name associated with dying of H1N1 flu? What is this tic that people have about minimizing people's concerns over not being able to get vaccine? Jeez, go play amateur epidmiologist elsewhere.


====




...."It is hard to talk about because everything happened so fast," said mother Annette Lewis.

Lewis heard a lot about H1N1 in the months leading up to October 6, but never did she think the illness would take her daughter.

"Never had we thought when we took her to the hospital that she wouldn't be coming home."

Mercedes was a student at Clay Intermediate School in South Bend. She was just starting sixth grade. Her family says the weekend before her death she came down with a sore throat. On Monday, they took her to the hospital, and by Tuesday morning, she was gone.

http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/77820987.html

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

1. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

2. Some coward actually unreced without comment.

[gateley]

66. It seems as though every thread is unrec'd -- I wonder if a fly-by troll just

goes through and systematically unrecs every new thread. There are so many unrecced that just make no sense -- truly innocuous subjects. :shrug:

[Maru Kitteh]

84. Probably some anti-vax nutbag.

[burning rain]

3. Damn shame. Looks like a sweetheart of a girl.

Glad to give you a rec.

[Withywindle]

4. I rec' it for Mercedes.

RIP, little angel.


But the truth is, the plain ol' regular flu DOES kill thousands of people every year, including lots of beautiful children. It always has.

The deaths just don't usually make the news because the plain ol' regular flu isn't a big news story.

[Jamastiene]

11. There are usually more vaccines available for regular flu though.

That's the point, I think.

[HuckleB]

22. Not always.

Most clinics I am in contact with have plenty of the seasonal flu shots. It's the H1N1 that they're missing.

[Jamastiene]

24. That's what I said. n/t

[HuckleB]

37. Ah, yes.

Clearly I needed more coffee this morning.

Sorry.

[pnwmom]

5. She died SO quickly. I wish the articles talked more about the course of her

illness, and whether she had asthma or any other pre-existing problems. What a tragedy for her family.

[Sheltiemama]

43. I think that's what's so scary about H1N1.

It seems to move like wildfire. One day a child seems to have a common cold. A couple of days later, the child dies. I think that's a big part of what's fueling this fear.

[Better Today]

6. So how does one girl's death equate to the facts about number deaths being a problem for you?

[Bluebear]

26. "One girl's death" - you illustrate the point perfectly.

[PHIMG]

7. Anecdotal evidence is useless. One case is not definitive.

Using this young woman to spread fear and hype is very sick.

Hyping the threat is not helpful.

[Bluebear]

25. Yes, sick, sick, sick. That's me. A real psychopath because we there is not enough vaccine.

idiot.

[Techn0Girl]

81. The flu went away without the vaccine....

H1N1 has been reported to be in decline pretty much everywhere in the U.S. for a few weeks now. The vaccine only became available for most people a few weeks ago (no the vacine didn;t do it ...sigh...)

The flu went away without the vaccine last may and less people died overall then from regular flu. Same thing just happened this month.

Sorry... maybe the next big disaster will turn out better for 'ya.

[Mojorabbit]

178. This is just another wave ending

They seem to be expecting yet another wave. I think the peak for flu season is January. It seems we are to have an extended season which started in April and when it ends is anybody's guess.

[still_one]

8. The unfortunate fact is that children are the most at risk for H1N1. The other unfortunate fact is

we were lied to by either the drug companies, the government, or both

The drug companies told us there would be adequate vaccine, even when they knew they would not be able to produce adequate amounts since the process takes a certain amount of time

The government either knowingly or unknowingly perpetuated that myth, and that is wrong

It takes about 12 months to produce the vaccine, and there just isn't enough time. We should have been told the truth

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Who ever claimed there would be enough vaccine for everybody?

The highest projections I ever saw was 50%.

[still_one]

10. I just heard them say it on 60 minutes 2 weeks ago there would be adequate vaccine. Also

"Production of H1N1 vaccine over the next year will be "substantially less" than the 4.9 billion doses previously forecast but one dose should provide adequate protection, the World Health Organisation (WHO) said on Friday."

In addition, Kathleen Sebelius said multiple times that there would be enough vaccine to everyone who want it.

[Greyhound]

13. The unfortunate fact is that we live in a bubble of lies.

Everything from disease to energy, politics, the economy, food supplies, everything, has been twisted, spun, and homogenized into a pablum judged suitable for mass consumption by the flock by our overlords.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. What the fuck are you talking about?

It's very simple. Flu Virus. Makes some people very sick.

How does this square with the agenda of the "overlords"?

What, exactly, are you suggesting is going on behind the curtain, here?

[Jamastiene]

12. There are several cases of a mutated strain of H1N1 resistant to the vaccine

here in North Carolina. WSOC (channel 9 in Charlotte) reported it several times. The ones who had the mutated strain of the H1N1 all died.

That means that by the time they get the rest of this batch of H1N1 vaccine ready, the mutated strain will be killing people.

[Daemonaquila]

17. This is more MSM fearmongering, and not that much of a concern.

The mutated strain has been present all along. The main difference is that it's resistant to anitvirals after the person gets the flu. The mutation does NOT make the vaccine ineffective against the virus. The NC cases are NOT the first incidence, but the largest cluster that has been seen in one location.

[Daemonaquila]

18. This is more MSM fearmongering, and not that much of a concern.

The mutated strain has been present all along. The main difference is that it's resistant to anitvirals after the person gets the flu. The mutation does NOT make the vaccine ineffective against the virus. The NC cases are NOT the first incidence, but the largest cluster that has been seen in one location.

[Mojorabbit]

59. No there is another mutation.

H1N1 swine flu mutation spreads, deaths worldwide on the rise
By Michael Krebs.
Subscribe to author
Nov 28, 2009 by ■ Michael Krebs


C. S. Goldsmith and A. Balish, Centers for Disease Control

As health officials seek to smooth concerns over the prospect of a more voracious H1N1 swine flu mutation, evidence mounts that the mutated strain is spreading.
With the World Health Organization reporting an increase of over 1,000 swine flu deaths in one week, health officials have been grappling with public awareness of the pandemic's potency - saying the mutations do not pose any significant threat to public health.

However, with the deaths of two French patients infected by the same mutation as that recently found in Norway, there is growing evidence that the more virulent mutated strain is spreading. The two Frenchmen who were reported on Saturday to have died from the H1N1 mutation did not appear to be in communication with each other prior to their infection, and both had been hospitalized in two different cities - supporting the concern that the mutation is arriving in an organic manner from the general flu ecology.
more here
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/282843

It is a mutation with hemorrhaging in the lungs it seems and there were multiple news reports re it during the past few days. Also had the first cases of dogs catching this flu from their owners.
Also the tamiflu resistance you noted in the news.

[Techn0Girl]

70. Every flu is a mutation - every single strain...

Big Pharma really latched onto the whole X-Men comic book crowd when they put out the "mutation" meme. All flus and bacteria mutate. That is how they evolve. Big deal. It;s been happening for ohhhh.... a billion years or so now .

But "mutation" sounds scary.
And now that H1N1 has wound down and the manufacturers are faced with huge overstocks they have to keep the fear up to sell off their stocks to various governments anyway.

Poorly educated people keep falling for this nonsense.

[mwb970]

14. But the regular flu *does* kill more people, doesn't it?

I guess I could "stop telling you" that, but still. BTW, making a general case from one incident is fallacious.

[billyoc]

15. Sell logic somewhere else, we're stockin' up on teh crazy here.

[Robb]

19. The flu kills more Americans than Afghanistan. How about that?

People tend to forget that yes, the regular flu kills more. But it's not like the regular flu STOPS killing people while H1N1 is killing people.

Even if it's no more dangerous, it's ANOTHER KILLER.

[Techn0Girl]

65. "It's another KILLER" - Oh Noes!!!

Yes ...swine flu is like the Charles Manson of Influenza - it's a Killer!

Hey , automobile accidents killed what, 10 times as many people this year as swine flu? More?
Are you out there with a sandwich board telling everyone that automobiles are killers too?

[Techn0Girl]

67. "Protect The Children! " is just another another new meme....

used by the sales people of the flu vaccine makers now that H1N1 has petered out with relatively few deaths. It's unfortunate that some people drink that particular Kool-Aid so heartily.

Swine flu is over. It's done. The vaccine finally arrived a few weeks ago but ...Surprise!...it ended up causing less deaths than regular flu. A LOT less deaths. Then it subsided.

And now it's pretty much over and the Vaccine Manufacturers have over stock so what do they do?
"Protect the Children!"

Yeah, right...
Some people will buy anything I guess.

[SidDithers]

74. Bookmarking...

so we can reevaluate "petered out with relatively few deaths" at some later date.

Edit: though I suspect you'll be eating pizza by then.

Sid

[Robb]

173. Ignore the antivax nutcases.

I do. And it makes the board seem much more intelligent on balance.

[HuckleB]

23. Yes, anecdotes are meaningless.

However, it is also fallacious to say that the seasonal flu kills more than H1N1, when we haven't gone through an entire season.

[Bluebear]

27. No, actually it does not. There is no "regular flu" in New England, for instance.

The overwhelming strain here is H1N1.

BTW, saying "one incident" really illustrates the point wonderfully.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

30. We have no idea. This year H1N1 has killed more people, seasonal flu has been almost non-existent.

The virus has mutated now, the game may have changed. Only time will tell.

[Techn0Girl]

31. OMG - It's The Amdromeda Flu !

It's mutated!
It has flu super-powers now!

B.S.
Hysterical nonsense.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. LOL that's great.

Big plot hole in that stupid movie- all the viruses mutating at once.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

35. All viruses mutate, that's common knowledge. That's right your the anti-vax girl. Never mind.

How those mutations affect the virulence and mortality no body knows. We'll have to wait and see.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

49. Gotta love that big tent.

:evilgrin: :toast:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

51. So being pro science and pro civil rights is now the right wing side?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. Oh then you are pro-vaccine? Go ahead and tell us about how good current vaccines are.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. No, I try and educate the ignorant around here for free.

[Techn0Girl]

76. And you're the "Sky is Falling " Ckicken Little guy .

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

86. Nope. Just keeping people informed.

[Techn0Girl]

88. About what?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

92. In this case, the facts, as we currently know them, about H1N1.

The H1N1 virus is widespread throughout the US. For the overwhelming majority of people who have contracted it, it has been no worse than the seasonal flu. For certain people though it has been deadly, that group includes people who normally do no die from the flu. The seasonal flu doesn't seem to be causing many problems currently as the current infection rates are dwarfed by the H1N1 infections. That's a decent summary.

[Techn0Girl]

95. But since you're completely wrong then how can you possibly be educating anyone?

How can you do that when all your facts are false?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

99. My statement was 100% accurate. Feel free to try and prove otherwise, you won't be able to.

[Techn0Girl]

107. You haven't ptoven it "accurate" so I personally don;t have to prove anything

You're just making up stuff.
That's pretty silly

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

109. My statement was 100% accurate. You can't prove it wrong, just run off and let the grown ups talk.

[Techn0Girl]

111. I don't have to prove your claims , you have to do that

And you haven't so far.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

115. Like I said you can't do it, run along now.

[Techn0Girl]

118. Hey dude - don't get angry at me f you can't prove the things you say

Sorry. Not my fault.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

120. I'm quite fond of you actually, you are wrong but I like you.

[Techn0Girl]

Stop drinking. It's too late for that

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

124. Sorry to disappoint but I just got off a 2 alarm fire. No drinking involved.

[Techn0Girl]

125. You've been posting for 2 hours. Was it an iFire?

On the internet we can be anything we want I suppose

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

128. No they called me in about 12:30. I just help them load a bunch of LDH.

[Techn0Girl]

130. You spelled LSD wrong too

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

132. Look it up you might actually learn something.

[Techn0Girl]

123. What Am I wrong about?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

137. You were wrong about seasonal flu having killed more people than H1N1 in 2009.

[Techn0Girl]

140. Nope. Seasonal flu kills 36,000. H1N1 killed 5000

It's basic math Dave.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

142. I'd love to see your proof that 36,000 people have died of the seasonal flu since 1/1/09.

Those are US deaths were are discussing. I'll be waiting.

[Techn0Girl]

145. I had to use a little known website called "Google" and look up "CDC" and "36,000"

and you get this link ..

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us_flu-related_deaths.htm

where it says....

"CDC estimated that about 36,000 people died of seasonal flu-related causes each year, on average, during the 1990s in the United States"

Now I suppose you could go and claim that this year is a "Magical Year" and that regular flu didn't kill hardly anybody ... and I suppose that you will

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

147. There you go making stuff up again. Your link has nothing about flu deaths in 2009.

[Techn0Girl]

149. It says what it says...

Anyone intelligent can see what it says.
36,000 a year on the average
From a study that tracked influenza for about 10 years

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

151. So you just assumed that seasonal flu had killed more than H1N1 in 2009 without any real proof.

[Techn0Girl]

153. Reading is fundamental, Dave

Admittedly it does probably take a tenth grade education to understand the link .

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

155. Yes and you have failed at it quite often tonight.

[Techn0Girl]

156. Whatever Dave ...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

158. Sounds like it's passed someone's bedtime.

[Hannah Bell]

72. uh, no. there's been no wholesale mutation.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

94. Just isolated cases right now. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.

This virus has been pretty slow to mutate though. Early in the summer I said that widespread use of anti-virals would hasten the mutations.

[Techn0Girl]

161. Pretty slow to mutate?

What do you base that on?
Are you a microbiologist in addition to being a "fireman" now?

I mean it's a cool opinion and all but shouldn't you have , you know, some kind of credentials to make such a statement?

[YOY]

56. Just stop pointing out the obvious!

You're demeaning Mercedes's death by pointing that out...apparently.

[Mojorabbit]

60. Different age group. n/t

[Djinn]

82. unfortunately pointing that out

just proves you're an evil uncaring fiend according to too many people posting on DU, apparently science education in the US is even worse than it is down here.

[Daemonaquila]

16. So what she has a smiling face and a name?

That has nothing to do with science. People die for horrible, stupid reasons all the time. Hell, Jim Henson died from measly strep throat.

I'm tired of all the PETA-esque unscientific hand-wringing. People are dying of non-H1N1 flu strains. People are dying of H1N1. It's not a crisis, but it sucks and there's pandemic risk if people don't exercise good judgment. There have been over 4,000 deaths from the flu as of this month. Officially, the CDC was putting the count at about 1,000 for H1N1. Recently, without any test data to support it, they upped their estimate to nearly all those deaths being due to H1N1. So, which guess is correct? It really doesn't matter, because the science isn't behind either estimate - nobody tested the strain in the other 3,000 deaths. Per the CDC's own admission, "It may never be possible to validate the accuracy of these figures."

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/estimates_2009_h1n1.htm

[jasi2006]

20. If no tests were done, it could very well be something other than H1N1.

Anybody think about that? What if we are dealing with something that could very easily be dealt with if it were properly identified?

[Bluebear]

28. You start with "so what" - that reflects on you poorly, actually.

[Jakes Progress]

69. This kind of thread really

points out the number of DUers who can't see or feel beyond their own nose.

[go west young man]

83. So true.

Man reading some of these emotional selfish rants is a serious letdown. To see Du'ers argue points like these with very little compassion for a deceased young girl just so they can make a point is truly truly sad. I'm sorry to see it.

[Bluebear]

91. They are just too cool for school, aren't they? Always know better, always pollinating threads...

with their medical "expertise".

[SidDithers]

21. Thanks for posting. Unrecc'd by accident...

recc'd in spirit.

Sid

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Countered your accidental unrecced

:hi:

[Techn0Girl]

29. OMG! Do it for the Children !

Cheap ploy.
Put up a kids smiling face and tell us she's dead .
All to support a little more fear about non-existent dangers, put a few more millions into the pockets of Big Pharma or pretend to win a stupid argument on DU.

Well O.P. I see you deceased child face and raise you another 1000 faces dead of regular flu. Or another 5000 faces dead from automobile accidents. You planning on fearmongering against autos next? Didn't think so?

UNrecced for needless fear about a non-existent danger.
Children die of the flu. That Sucks no doubt!
But it doesn't give you a "win" on DU.

Over three times as many children died of regular flu related causes this year than they did of swine flu.

H1N1 is nothing special at all.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. What sort of behavior do you think this "fearmongering" will cause, that you're so opposed to?

Do what for the children?

"That Sucks no doubt!"

:eyes:

Let me guess, you don't have any kids. I'd suspect you don't have room for them in your dorm or whatever little bubble of agit-prop you live in, far removed from the real world. If you had kids, your reaction probably wouldn't be "that like, toooootally sucks" to someone else's kid dying.

You'd damn well do whatever it takes to reasonably protect your kids from real dangers- that includes the regular flu shot, and that includes the H1N1 vaccine as well. Because while all sorts of flu are normally not a huge deal to most people, to some people they can be extremely dangerous. This is not a plot by "big Pharma" to make money, this is REALITY.

Don't want the shot? Don't fucking get it.

[Techn0Girl]

41. See where you wen't wrong is you didn't mention puppies....

To really get people's attention you can't put up some kids face . You might as well put them on a milk carton .

You need puppies...hundreds of sick swine flu infected puppies.
That'll get their attention!

[Warren DeMontague]

54. What the fuck are you talking about?

Now you're just babbling.

[Jakes Progress]

73. Some people just have to comment

on everything. They especially like to show how cool they are by not caring about anything or anybody. They are above the common riff raff who care about others and show concern. Concern is their favorite derogatory word. ayn rand is their idea of an intelligent person.

[Bluebear]

48. I've her on ignore now, thankfully, but she is just the type that prompted the post to begin with.

Nobody is trying to promote hysteria or anything, but would that people like her would just STFU instead of thinking they have to pollinate every thread with their shallow thoughts.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mojorabbit]

61. Do you have a link for your statement?

"Over three times as many children died of regular flu related causes this year than they did of swine flu."

I's love to read this article.
Thanks.

[Techn0Girl]

79. I misspoke - Here are the actual stats:

My bad - the actual stats are as follows:
You need to know the following though - the CDC has only been tracking pediatric flu deaths for the past 5 years. Not all states reported in the early years - you will notice that in the stats I provide below (with links) that the pediatric flu death rate rises each year because of more and more states reporting into the system that did not report before .

Here are the actual TOTAL pediatric influenza deaths stats for each season as officially reported by the CDC (with links)
The flu season runs from October to October.

Flu Season Pediatric Deaths
2004-5 .... 39

2005-6 .... 41

2006-7 .... 68

2007-8 .... 83

2008-9 .... 147

I'm sure these stats won't make a bit of difference to the "Sky is falling Crowd"
Notice the number go up each year as more and more states report into the pediatric influenza mortality stats.

A straight line progression would indicate that normal pediatric flu mortality for this year would be near 100. This season's figures (last week was in October) would account for 47 more deaths in children than is expected in a normal flu season.

By contrast Bicycles accounted for over 100 pediatric deaths in 2008 alone:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811156.PDF

...and the bicycles are mutating ....

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

96. The CDC has the number of pediatric deaths at 200 since Apr. 26, 2009.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

[Techn0Girl]

101. Yhe flu season ended in October...and your stats are made up (link doesn't support it)

You are incorrectly including deaths in the NEXT year flu season 2009-10 as well as the 2008-9 season stats (that ended in October and included last April)

The 08-09 stats are here:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2008-2009/weekly39.htm

and include 147 influenza related deaths

You are not interpreting the stats correctly.
Furthermore your link that you provided says nothing at all about 200 H1N1 pediatric deaths.
You just made that part up or didn;t understand what you were reading

The link actually says 171 pediatric deaths since April - that would include BOTH the 09 and 10 seasons

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

103. We are talking about H1N1 deaths, H1N1 has followed the regular seasonal pattern.

[Techn0Girl]

105. Now you're just not making any sense at all

You supported your argument with made up figures thus far and for the life of me I have no idea what you are talking about in your last post.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

106. So now you are accusing the CDC of making up figures? MMMkay.

[Techn0Girl]

108. Nt the CDC - just you. Your link doesn;t support your statements

So either you don;t have the capacity to understand then or you are just making stuff up
Feel free to prove me wrong though

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

113. Here it is for those who value the truth.

Date 2009 H1N1 Influenza Influenza A-Subtype Unknown Seasonal Flu Total
Number of Deaths 171 28 1 200
OCCURRED since
April 26, 2009

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

Look under Influenza-associated Pediatric Mortality the chart is easy to read.

[Techn0Girl]

116. As we already discussed - you are still wrong...

That stat includes the number of deaths for BOTH the 09 and the new 10 flu season that began in October. Stats for the 09 season are roughly 17 in a link that I posted earlier several times here.

So you're wrong again

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

122. Again H1N1 hasn't followed the normal seasonal flu pattern, it's idiotic to use it.

[Techn0Girl]

127. I have no idea what you are saying ...

So repeating it probably won't help.
You seem to be expressing an opinion as to how the flu works.
I support your right to do that.
But I rather believe the CDC

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

131. So you agree with the CDC's recommendations on vaccination? That's good news.

[Techn0Girl]

133. Whatever. Sad though that you lack the capicity to prove your odd claims.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

135. Glad to know you are on board with the multi dose vials of H1N1 vaccine for children and...

pregnant women. Feel free to tell me if that's not the case.

[Techn0Girl]

141. Making things up is something for children, isn't it? It makes you look bad

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

144. I thought you agreed with the CDC, which is it?

[Techn0Girl]

146. What are you drinking? You're just rambling. Word Salad

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

148. Do you agree with the CDC about the H1N1 vaccine for pregnant women and children?

[Techn0Girl]

150. That's a whole different topic. I'm not your topic monkey Dave

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

152. LOL. Don't run away now and avoid the question. Have some self respect.

[Techn0Girl]

154. Whatever

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

157. Come now, don't get pissy. Just man up and answer the question.

[Name removed]

159. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

179. Of the 147 child flu deaths during the 2008/2009 flu season...

73 were confirmed H1N1.

So far, in the first 7 weeks of the 2009/2010 flu season there have been:

153 child flu deaths, of which 121 are confirmed H1N1.

By contrast, during the first 7 weeks of the 2008 / 2009 flu season, there were exactly 0 child deaths from influenza.

First 7 weeks of 2008/2009 - 0 deaths from flu
First 7 weeks of 2009/2010 - 153 child deaths from flu, 121 of which are confirmed H1N1

Calculations and links are in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x77900#77942

Sid

[laundry_queen]

184. Thank you for those numbers.

THAT is why H1N1 is concerning.

[Odin2005]

34. OMG, poor young lady.

:cry:

[emsimon33]

39. What a beautiful young lady! What a loss!

I develop online health-related newsletters daily that aggregate health-related news from news sources across the country. H1N1 is very serious and life-threatening if a person has an underlying chest condition such as asthma. I have cautioned all my friends with children who have such problems to get the children vaccinated. I also dismissed my college students from class in order to get the shots if they had such a condition. My one student who has had H1N1 said it was the worse flu he had ever had and he was sick as could be for a week, but was in the dorm and rebounded quickly.

[pitohui]

42. i'm sorry for your loss

however you must understand that many of us, having lived this long, have known a great many people who died of flu and pneumonia, i almost died myself as a teen

hysteria doesn't help anything, esp. during a vaccine shortage

i am willing to take a risk, so that people in higher risk categories get first shot at the vaccine

otherwise i'm not going to worry abt it, we're all going to die of something and we all know people who have died of the flu

it's just weird that, this year, there is more hoo hah being made, when there are in fact fewer deaths

we regret the death of the young girl but we also wonder why you don't regret the death of our friends or family members that we've lost to the many kinds of flu over the years

why is it only worth pasting a picture when it's swine flu? i feel like i'm being sold a product and i'm not comfortable w. this hard sales pitch we're seeing for this particular vaccine...i feel someone is actually putting $$$ in their pocket and using the face of a young child to do it

[Bluebear]

44. Who is asking for "hysteria"?

I am simply requesting that people not minimize people's concerns, or explain that other forms of death also exist.

At least you regret the young girl dying, not saying "so what" others have done.

[Spider Jerusalem]

50. Seasonal flu does kill more people. Just not usually 11-year-olds.

[Bluebear]

52. And complications from diabetes kill more than seasonal flu.

And cancer kills more than diabetes.

:crazy:

[debbierlus]

55. Unlike the regular flu, this one is more virulent in children - more kids died as of October

(with H1N1)...then usually die during the entire regular flu season

It is true that the regular flu does kill more people, H1N1 is milder in most people.

However, when it comes to kids, it is devastating and very frightening.

That is terrible

[Techn0Girl]

63. More kids died than....

"as of October (with H1N1)...then usually die during the entire regular flu season"

Unless you can quote a research study that says this I call shennigans and claim you are just making that up.

[Honeycombe8]

57. CNN posted the death toll for flu this season. It was shy of 5,000. Normally, almost 40,000

people die in the country during flu season. Of course, the winter isn't over.

The numbers really struck me in the face, when I saw them.

And I guarantee you that'll be the LAST time we see the real numbers. After that, there were days of doctors and other experts on TV talking up the fear aspect of the H1N1. Never a mention of the light death toll, of course.

It's clear what happened. Someone told the truth! Someone let the cat out of the bag! What is bad about H1N1 is not the death toll. It's that the people who have died are DIFFERENT from the ones who usually die from the flu. It's children and younger adults. It's usually the elderly and sickly who die from the other types of flu.

But not to have the fear factor is, well, not to have as much $ coming in. The nanny might think you won't take H1N1 seriously and not wash your hands. And the nanny thinks you might not get a flu shot (there's big money in them thar' flu shots). And the nanny thinks you might not try to hunt down the scarce H1N1 vaccine.

The fact is...H1N1 is just a flu virus. That's all it is. Nothing anyone wants to get. And something that a small percentage would die from, if they got it. But most will not get it (just like most people don't get the flu in any given season). And most, if they do get it, will not need hospitalization and will not die from it.

And that's the truth.

[Techn0Girl]

68. You got it!

I've been telling people that here in DU for about 4 months now. That 36K figure has been out for 10 years now. And the number of deaths have been known for some time.

But some people are just really REALLY into fear mongering and disaster scenarios so they buy up any old tripe that big business (like he Pharma people who sell the vaccine) put out. Once you drink THAT Kool-Aid you're pretty much forced to make everyone agree with you or else...you know... you kind of look like an idiot, right?

Well good on you for exercising some critical thinking skills :)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

174. What you wrote is the same information as what the CDC has been saying.

They have been saying that it was little threat to the elderly who are otherwise healthy. Basically the people we have to thank for misinformation is the media. First they were hysterical about Avian Flu, then they were hysterical about H1N1, then they were hysterical about the H1N1 vaccine.

[mzmolly]

58. So very sad.

:( K and R

[Prometheus Bound]

62. The "regular" flu kills more people.

"While seasonal flu kills about 36,000 people each year in the U.S. on average, CDC reports the swine flu has killed 1,049 in the U.S. since April."

http://www.ajc.com/health/public-confused-about-swine-216098.html


CDC Director Anne Schuchat (SHOOK'-it) says that the majority of children who die from H1N1 had other health problems.
http://new.wkzo.com/news/articles/2009/nov/09/flu-victim-buried/

[Techn0Girl]

64. What?? Do you think you "facts" are relevant ???

snark snark snark :)

You can't change a teabagger's mind with facts.
Neither can you change a swine flu fearmonger's mind with them either it appears.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

75. It hasn't this year.

[Techn0Girl]

77. Prove it Davey

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

78. Here you go.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2009-2010/IPD45.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

[Techn0Girl]

80. What are those links supposed to prove?

What are you trying to prove here by throwing up a couple seemingly random links?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

85. In the year 2009 more children have died from H1N1 than the seasonal flu.

All of the information is in those links.

[Techn0Girl]

87. See the following link for context ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7107565&mesg_id=7113416


short version:
In a normal flu season year flu kills about 100 children in the U.S.
This flu season year 147 total children died as a result of the flu, about 50 more than in a regular season.

By contrast, bicycles kill 100 children a year.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

97. The CDC has the number of pediatric deaths at 200 since Apr. 26, 2009.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

[Techn0Girl]

112. Nope, you're making that up. It does not say that at all

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

119. It says exactly that and here is the proof.

Date 2009 H1N1 Influenza Influenza A-Subtype Unknown Seasonal Flu Total
Number of Deaths 171 28 1 200
OCCURRED since
April 26, 2009

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly /

Look under Influenza-associated Pediatric Mortality the chart is easy to read.

[Techn0Girl]

121. You can post that link a hundred times and it will still not say what you want it to say

But you can easily prove me wrong.
Supply an excerpt from the link that proves your point.

What is your point anyway?
Seems to me that you just like to say the same thing over and over

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

126. The CDC has the number of pediatric deaths at 200 since Apr. 26, 2009.

That's what the link says and that's the point I am trying to make.

[Techn0Girl]

129. Where does it say that?

Where Dave? Where exactly does it say that?
And if that H1N1 deaths or is that ALL flu deaths?
What flu seasons does that entail Dave?

I already know the answers I'm just waiting for you to catch up.

You can't just post a random link and expect that it "proves" stuff you make up.
People (like me) actually read the links and when it doesn't say what you claim then you just look silly.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

134. Ok I'll walk you through it.

Go to
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

The first chart below Influenza-Associated Pediatric Mortality.

The chart is titled
Laboratory-Confirmed Influenza-Associated Pediatric Deaths by Date and Type/Subtype of Influenza.

The bottom row of the chart is Number of Deaths OCCURRED since April 26, 2009

You will notice 171 were confirmed as 2009 H1N1 Influenza, 28 were confirmed as Influenza A Sub Type Unknown, 1 was confirmed as the Seasonal Flu to give us a Total of 200.

That would be the total number of reported influenza associated pediatric deaths since the H1N1 was found in the US population. Those numbers would cover both the what the CDC woud refer to as the 08-09 Influenza Season and the beginning of the 09-10 Influenza Season.

If that was to hard let me know, I'll draw you a picture.

[Techn0Girl]

139. Very cool but what about those 200 deaths....

They weren't all H1N1 deaths were they?

(that's called a rhetorical question Dave since you answered it already yourself)

Super.
Now tell me when the flu season ends Dave?
Can you do that?
Because if you can't (and I already said the answer) then I can wait another hour or two until you get it.

Let's recap....
we're down from 200 to 171 deaths.
Can you now tell me if that is for two seasons of flu or for one?

Try Dave...try ...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

160. I specifically said this year not this flu season.

The number of confirmed cases was 171, only 1 case confirmed as the seasonal flu. The 28 other cases couldn't be subtyped. I thought it was pretty clear in the chart.

[Techn0Girl]

163. Well then you're wrong again...

Because those 171 cases are from April to 3rd week in November.
the 2010 flu season began in October.

So the 171 deaths are not from two year's flu stats.

So you're wrong again.
Who would have thought?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

164. Reading is fundamental. I said this year, as in 2009, not this flu season.

[Techn0Girl]

167. Sorry the CDC keeps stats by flu season year. Only 147 died this season

And this flu season (08-09) only 147 people died of the flu
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7107565&mesg_id=7113416

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

169. The CDC keeps stats for calendar years and by flu season. You'll notice in post#75 I said this year.

[Techn0Girl]

170. You also said that 200 people dies of H1N1 This year. Who can keep up with the wrongness?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

171. Should be easy to show me the link to where I said H1N1 had killed 200 kids.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

172. It should only take a second to post that link. That is if I had actually said it.

[SidDithers]

180. This flu season, 147 children died of flu

73 of which were confirmed H1N1.

That's half, and almost 50% more than the 50 number you've been carelessly throwing around.

And, yes, I'm going to correct you every time I see you post that misinformation.

Sid

[Skittles]

71. beautiful child

:cry:

[AllHereTruth]

89. But. But. It does.

Pictures are powerful. They are. I feel for her family, and feel for their loss of a beautiful young girl.

That does not take away from the fact that H1N1 has proven to be no worse than the seasonal flu. Its a simple fact.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/11/health/11flu.html
FTA:About 4,000 Americans — rather than about 1,200 — have died of swine flu since the disease emerged in April, according to new figures being calculated by epidemiologists for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention......The new estimate will be a more accurate comparison to the 36,000 deaths from seasonal flu each year, he said. That estimate is also based on confirmed cases as well as hospital reports of people who appear to have died after a bout of flu.

Understand? I DO feel bad for this young girls family, but putting her picture up to rip our emotions to shreds because you are 'sick of hearing about the swine flu not being bad' is pretty shady imo.

Heres a little 'infographic' to illustrate my point further
http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelpaukner/4052849920/sizes/o/in/pool-16135094@N00/

Or better yet. Lets look at a ticker. How bout some rough numbers?
http://www.poodwaddle.com/clocks2.htm

Check out that last link, check out the death tolls. How often does a thread regarding TB/Malaria/Hepatitis/Leprosy get this popular on DU? They have, combined, killed millions world wide this year. Yet all we care about is H1N1. A disease that has killed, directly or indirectly, a couple thousand here in America. Is the reason because we don't have to worry about TB or Malaria so why care?

[Bluebear]

90. H1N1 has proven to be MUCH worse than season flu for young people.

As far as calling me "shady", whatever. Who says we don't care about malaria or TB? Pretty shady of you.

H1N1 kills young people and quickly. This child died within days. Yet people here are lecturing folks who are concerned as being shills for big pharma, worrywarts, and ...shady.

[AllHereTruth]

93. Shady was a terrible choice of words. My apologizes 100%

...Now to my reply...Its pretty clear, to me at least, that much of the fear over H1N1 has been media driven. If you look at the data it is not that severe. If you listen to the scientists it is not nearly as severe as once anticipated...months and months ago. Yet the media continues to use scare tactics that throw our emotions into overload.

Again, i did not mean to make this personal towards you. If i did, my apologizes.

*Peace*

[Bluebear]

175. Peace to you

Myself I type the wrong thing all the time and didn't mean it to come across like it did. Thanks for making our encounter all better XOX

[SidDithers]

181. The data is very clear...

during the first 7 weeks of the 2008/2009 flu season, influenza killed 0 children.

during the first 7 weeks of the 2009/2010 flu season, influenza killed 153 children. Of those, 121 were confirmed H1N1, 30 were Influenza A subtype unverified (some of which were almost certainly H1N1), one was seasonal, and one was Influenza type B.

Takes some digging, but all data is gleaned from CDC's weekly influenza reports, found here:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/fluactivity.htm

Sid

[Techn0Girl]

98. H1N1 Has only been responsible for a spike of ....

roughly 50 more pediatric deaths this year than in a regular flu season.
That's hardly earth shattering.

In fact... bicycles killed just about as many children in 2008 as H1N1 is now.

The stats are in this post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7107565&mesg_id=7113416

[AllHereTruth]

102. Thank you Techno0Girl

Im more of a hardstyle kind of guy myself. Particularly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9jHCklXU5Q

That song fucking kicks (youtube version has weak bass though)

*Peace*

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

104. I would think a percentage increase of that level would be cause for concern.

It's well outside the bounds of the normal increase.

[Techn0Girl]

110. Well you;re entitled to your personal opinion. Everyone has one .

[AllHereTruth]

114. Cause for concern is acceptable when...

A disease/virus takes the life of child after child after child. But that is not the case.

Look at the facts. Look at the numbers. Listen to the experts.

That is all.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

117. I am listening to the experts at the CDC and WHO.

[Techn0Girl]

136. Then you must be listening to them by Ouija board ...

because they are saying something different on their web site

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

138. Prove it kid.

[Techn0Girl]

143. Prove what?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

162. Prove that they are saying something different than I have posted.

[Techn0Girl]

165. But who can figure out what you actually said? You change it each message

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

166. It's actually be remarkably consistent. You'll get there one day keep working at it.

[Name removed]

168. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

182. H1N1 was actually responsible for 73 deaths...

during the 2008/2009 flu season. Those are actual, real deaths, confirmed to have been caused by the H1N1 virus. The "roughly 50 more" number you've been carelessly throwing around has no basis in reality. It's an extrapolation from a poorly formulated model that you made up.

So far, in the 2009/2010 flu season, 153 children have died of influenza, 121 of those confirmed H1N1.

Since H1N1 appeared in May, 73+121 = 194 kids have died of H1N1 influenza, or about twice as many as are killed in bike accidents every year.

Links and calculations are found in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x77900#77942

Sid

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

185. Good point.

[Fedja]

100. Very true

H1N1 poses more of a danger to kids, as it doesn't particularly care how strong your immune system is.

While I agree with you that it's particularly tragic that this flu kills kids as well as the old and the weak, I also think the hysteria is disproportionate. Now, I'm not arguing against the vaccine at all, if anyone wants to get it, they're most welcome to do so. Still, let's not ignore the fact that the panic is disproportionate, and that your sensational post (pointing out one case with a smiling picture of a victim of tragedy) adds to that.

Where is your outrage about Leprosy, which killed as many people as H1N1 around the world this year? Where are the pictures of kids who die in the thousands to diseases like Malaria, Meningitis, TB, HIV, Encephalitis and the hundreds of other causes? Where's the smiling picture of a kid who died of measles, which kill 500.000 people every year?

20% of teenager deaths are caused by firearms, where's the outrage there?

[Bluebear]

176. Oh my, do a search of my posts

Search guns, search HIV, search health care if you want to know "where my outrage is" on those fronts. Please do!

[Fedja]

177. I'm not saying you're a one-issue poster

I'm just saying that there are hundreds of diseases out there that deserve more attention than this season's named influenza. Like I said in the beginning of my post, I think the hysteria is blown out of proportion and pictures of individual kids aren't helping anyone stay rational.

[appleannie1]

183. An infant twin, less than a month old, died in PGH last week. This flu is serious. I get tired of

those that claim it is political mumbo jumbo. Especially assholes like Limpballs and Hannity.

[Dorian Gray]

186. Poor girl

And her poor family.

[tnlefty]

187. I saw a report early this morning relating how inaccurate

the quick H1N1 tests are. Another young girl had 2 quick tests that came up negative and she ended up critically ill and in the hospital, but she survived.

I had no idea that the quick tests have such high rates of false negatives and it was unsettling to say the least.