parents... opinions please. sleep habits of little children.

[seabeyond]

i always held my kids to a pretty tight schedule, especially at the younger ages. it seemed to be comforting to them, allowing for better behavior.

i have a niece that from the time her baby was born has lacked a schedule. the baby/toddler stays up all hours of the night and sleeps until late morning, early afternoon. she takes a nap here and there, or conks out 5 in the evening for a nap.

i tell myself if the child is getting the number of hours of sleep within her day that she needs, there should be no difference having the "normal" sleep schedule associated with children or a more unusual schedule like this child has.

but

lol

it just kinda rubs me the wrong way. the child seems to be always fussy and out of control, unless getting her way. it just feels like she is not well rested, ergo the behavior.

then i tell myself again, if she is getting the sleep, it doesnt matter if she goes to bed at midnight or later.

what are other parents opinion on this.

thanks.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. That's going to be rough to change when school time rolls around.

[Pirate Smile]

12. That was my first thought. That schedule is on a timer. It will end.

[seabeyond]

14. i think that too, but then tell myself that is just adapting, and that

can be done. so not seeing that as a reason now at two.

[enlightenment]

19. Unfortunately, I think it will be a problem unless she adjusts

to a more regular schedule pretty soon. I've seen the effects on kids who have parents who let them do that - and they didn't adapt easily when it came time to do it, leading to many unhappy bedtimes.

[seabeyond]

23. i wondered. talked to a teacher a year ago, saying too many kids staying up too late

and not getting enough sleep when they come into school..... now a days, lol. and i do see parents around me that allow kids to go to bed very late.

my kids stay up late weekends, but school nights, reading time then bed by 9 and they are older

[enlightenment]

58. I went with the early to bed theory until my son started high school.

On school nights, of course. 7:30 when he was a tot - 8 from kindergarten to 5th grade - 9:30 from 6th to 9th grade. When he turned 16 I gave him the choice; he of course tried to make the most of it, but was usually out by 11. Cracked me up . . .

[seabeyond]

59. that is how i have progressed.

he does cross country and has early morning practice and after school practice, lol so tired by end of day. no problem him getting sleep with that schedule.

[HuckleB]

66. I believe a couple studies have shown that, too.

I certainly see lack of sleep as a big issue with kids who have behavior issues, in my practice.

[seabeyond]

69. in the past, there wasnt a lot to do past an hour. now a days, there is so much to do, staying up

with internet, cable and dvds there is a lot more reason not to go to bed, lol. i was thinking about this just moments ago, working on 1:30 and i am still up.

ah well.

thanks.

[HuckleB]

80. Exactly!

Thinking about it in evolutionary terms, we have to remember that we have not caught up with the age of electricity.

:hi:

[mamaleah]

103. That was my thought as well.

School doesn't begin in late afternoon and that child is going to have a rough time adjusting to a schedule sort of out of the blue.

[tabatha]

2. She has to go to bed early, otherwise she will never cope with school.

Also, there are some studies that show one has to match one's sleep cycles with daylight hours, and also there has to be enough time to go through the various phases of sleep, especially REM.

She is doing her child a disfavor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep

[seabeyond]

5. this is one of the areas i have been bothered the last two years. i am a morning person

when i get out and about. i cant grab the child and do things cause she is ASLEEP. lol. and i think she is missing the mornings and that is sad. i always woke early with mine, and after holding them while i drank my coffee, we would be enjoying the mornings. loved the mornings.

i am done later in the day and time to wind down.

[me b zola]

3. You are correct

Children really do thrive when they have a schedule and set pattern of doing things. It gives them a sense of security. And yeah, the child you speak of is going to have difficulty with their sleep patterns when they begin school.

[rwheeler31]

4. I do not care for over programed kids.

What time is it is not a good ? from kids.

[seabeyond]

8. having a schedule is far different from programming a child.

but i really dont understand your question, or statement if that is what it is.

[AspenRose]

6. "The No-Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley and Dr. William Sears

That'd be my recommendation

[seabeyond]

9. i have one of their books. will check it out. nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Sounds like she's one of these disengaged parents who thinks it's

"too much trouble" to put her child on a schedule. Or maybe the child resisted once or twice, so the mother just decided to give in.

[seabeyond]

10. she is young. but, she works hard as a mom. the sad part, she likes staying up late

and sleeping in, so why she has her daughter on that.

she is preg, so i told her tonight, hope it is a child that just wakes early. my youngest, didnt matter what time he went to bed, was wide awake at 6.

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. I am a day sleeper, but when I had kids I had to go by their needs. I had a day and

a night sleeper for a good while there, which meant I wasn't sleeping. (And as an undiagnosed, unmedicated bipolar person that was not good.)

[Pirate Smile]

17. If she is pregnant and her daughter isn't in preschool or anything like that yet then I can

understand the schedule a bit more for right now - it sounds like it is so she can get sleep herself and has her daughter on the same schedule.

It will change when school starts. The new baby may have his or her own natural schedule too that Mom may have to adapt to eventually. I don't see much you can do unless she actually wants to change the way she is doing things now.

[seabeyond]

20. there is nothing i can or would do. she is mom, making these choices

and i respect it is hers to do.

it seems way back when, reading aprenting books and paying attention to this, there were actual reasons a child sleeps at night, lol, not day. and it has been over two years of this, and decided to see what others thought here.

like i said, intellectually, i can say, number of hours is what matters, not the time of day.

[msongs]

18. what does her husband have to say about this? nt

[seabeyond]

25. he likes to stay up late too. now this is more marriage issue, but he works

she is stay at home. and seems to me, putting the kid to bed at 8 would give him some down time. instead, he stays up with em all, goes to bed and gets up with them sleeping. i dont like that either, BUT NOT MY BUSINESS.

i like being up and kids up to chat with hubby as he goes off to work.

but i dont know how he feels. not my business. curious though

[surrealAmerican]

89. It's not that important just what the schedule is ...

... so long as it's consistent and the child is getting enough sleep. Many parents (especially working parents) opt for a later schedule in order to spend more waking hours with their children.
The case you mentioned in your OP makes it sound like the child isn't getting enough sleep. That does happen with more scheduled children too at that age, especially if they are giving up naps, but the parents would likely be making their own lives easier if they tried to keep closer to a consistent schedule, even a late one.

[uppityperson]

11. Different kids vary widely. If there is no issue with an outside schedule,

then when they sleep is a matter of whenever.

Being "fussy" can be a sign of lack of sleep, though it can be a reason for lack of sleep also as the child may not be able to sleep for long at one time. Some kids wake up easily, quickly, suddenly and are wide awake. Others take a long time to transition from sleep to wake.

I used to watch my toddler be asleep and then awake and up in one moment, where my nephew took much longer to go between stages.

So mine, even now as a young adult, sleeps in more short catnaps than the nephew who takes an hour of drowsy time to go to sleep for 10 hours then take another couple to wake up.

Back to toddlers, if no outside schedule, then I see no problem if it works for them. It is common for babies to come out sleeping during the day and awake at night, since the gentle rocking inside lulled them to sleep with the mother was up and moving around. Also why they got more active, kicking, etc, when you laid down to sleep. After they are born, it can take a while to turn that around.

[seabeyond]

13. interesting. thanks. i had one of each of those children. lol

but my mind keeps telling me the number of hours of sleep is what matters.

curious if anyone heard otherwise

so appreciate

[SoCalDem]

68. Our middle son never slept through the night until he started school

Our oldest would announce "Mom, can I go take a nap?" (this one pissed off my friends to the nth degree:).)

The youngest is a night-owl like I am, but never seemed sleep-deprived, and graduated summa cum laude ..had a huge circle of friends, played multiple varisty sports, and is the most well-adjusted of the three.:)

We had "bedtime", but since they shared a room for a lot of the time, sometimes a lot more was going on,..other than actual sleeping.. they all would finally settle down..except for Middle-Michael who would wander in the night, and sometimes we'd find him snoozing in front of the dishwasher..or on the foot of our bed..or even in the bathroom on the floor.. We had to install high-up latches on the doors so he would not wander outside.

[seabeyond]

70. "Mom, can I go take a nap?" ... bah hahah. isnt that nice. lol

actually, my youngest no longer fights it and will take himself off to bed pretty early. but he tried to stay up with his brother for a while.

thanks so cal

[mzmolly]

21. I agree. Each family is different, each child is different.

What works for one child/family may not work for the next. :hi:

[TwilightGardener]

16. I was pretty strict on bedtimes, too. 9 pm it's bath, book and bed, no exceptions

unless there's a special occasion or visitors. I felt this led to better behavior, less crankiness, etc. My brother's family was the opposite--the kids were allowed to fall asleep on the couch watching TV until all hours of the night, and no, it didn't really change when they were in school, either. They're all good teens now, so I'm not sure it really matters as they grow up, but if I had little ones again, I would definitely still enforce a bedtime and a normal sleep schedule. I just hate seeing little kids still awake after 10 pm--just feels so WRONG to me, LOL.

[seabeyond]

27. lol lol. that is it. feels wrong. not knowin there is any wrong. lol. nt

[shanti]

96. lol, i heard that!

my DS is also one of those parents who allows my DGS to dictate his sleep habits, and it drives me nuts! kids need their sleep, and in their own room, in their own bed, at a decent hour (by 8pm at the latest). my DGS won't sleep in his crib anymore, so my DS allows him to fall asleep in his bed. of course, he has to lay there with him until he falls asleep, or he cries. it's hard for me to hold my tongue!

[mzmolly]

22. I think what matters is that the child is getting enough

rest, personally. ;)

[rwheeler31]

24. When do you play with your child?

[seabeyond]

28. thru out day, evening and nite until bedtime. when they were little.

i was stay at home mom. as is this mom. is that what you are talking about?

[MichiganVote]

26. Good nutrition. Good sleep. No exceptions-ever. Anything else is problematic come school.

[dugaresa]

29. i think she is out of her mind, but it is her choice. I also think baby #2 will fix this

because mom will get exhausted and give up on this free and easy stuff.

[seabeyond]

30. i always liked having the couple hours quiet time once they were in bed, lol. nt

[TwilightGardener]

31. Yep--parents need that break. That's when my husband and I could

just sit and snack and vegetate and watch our TV shows without interruption.

[rwheeler31]

33. That is the greatest.

[rwheeler31]

34. Wow kid talk time.

[rwheeler31]

39. It is not about you.

[seabeyond]

40. that is the greatest. wow kid talk time. it is not about you.

all three of those posts on me saying a couple hours of quiet time is nice.

you challengin my parenting? is that what your posts are about? really, if so just say it. (jest)

i would not apologize for appreciating a couple hours quiet time after taking care of little ones from 6 in the morning until 8 at night. really.... i would see no reason to justify that comment at all.

[uppityperson]

77. perhaps it is haiku proceeding..... at.....a.....slow ....pace....?

though search shows other randomness

[seabeyond]

79. you know, we all have our truly unique ways. lol. nt

[shanti]

97. that's what i saw too

from that poster...sounds like someone who is taking it personally. everyone needs "down time", especially parents of young children!

[seabeyond]

101. i think there is a huge advantage with this too, that i fell into, but didnt do

purposely.

though it is so vitally important for a child to know they are loved and respected and valued, giving them a strong foundation to stand on, another part fo the equation is to also understand that they are not the center of all worlds. that each person is the center of their own world. and for a child to learn at a young age, that the parent is there always, and loves unconditionally, the parent too has a life that they will live.

i think the child learning, knowing and seeing that an adult seperates time for themselves is a healthy thing.

[dugaresa]

84. you said it, I needed those few hours to collect myself and the house

and get stuff ready for the next day's onslaught.

A well organized and rested mother makes a much happier mother and we all know that "If momma's happy, everyone is happy"

[shanti]

98. absolutely!

:hi:

[Odin2005]

32. Maybe the kid has Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_syndrome

[noamnety]

38. That describes me perfectly.

When my ex used to be on maneuvers for weeks or months at a time and I was home raising my daughter, I'd sleep from 5am to noon or 1pmish. It's a big luxury for me still to have a long weekend when I can stay up til 3 or 4am and sleep in. My daughter was raised on my schedule when she was young, since the ex was gone about half the year and I was fairly isolated in a foreign country not living on post and being in a rural area.

I don't view it as a disorder, it really is as the article suggests, just that my time doesn't mesh with the rest of society, not that one is "correct" or "incorrect" necessarily.

I doubt my kid is any worse for it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

104. That sounds like me.

[grantcart]

35. When we adopted my second child (my wife's first) I gave my wife

a book to help her understand what she was going to have to face in a few days when we took our daughter home.


She read the book and then kept my daughter on a very strict eating and sleep schedule.


I was astonished with the results compared to my first daughter who had a loose schedule.


She slept through the night almost from the begining and never fussed and hardly ever cried. I think that the regularity of the schedule was very comforting to her. Her whole system seemed to me much more relaxed, she was almost never cranky and very rarely cried.

[seabeyond]

37. that is what it seemed like for my kids.

thanks.

[mzmolly]

99. It's easier to get children of a certain temperament on

a strict schedule, and as such parents may assume that a schedule is effecting mood vs. the other way around?

[patrice]

36. Depends upon the child's temperament and the environment. I never felt it

necessary to put my 2 on schedules. No afternoon naps. They weren't whiny or unpleasant. Most evenings after supper, I'd find one or the other asleep somewhere in the house, so I'd put them to bed. If we were socializing, they often went with us and socialized with whatever peers were there too, when it got real late they'd tire out, so we would find a quiet place for them to sleep until we went home. My kids had a bunch of cousins, so they also had a bunch of surrogate "moms" and "dads".

Everything depends upon what kind of behavior you're seeing. Diet is also a big deal.

I know someone who insisted on real strict nap times and early bed times, even though her kids weren't whiny & unpleasant; it was just to give her and her husband time at home "without the kids". Those kids turned into problems, but that might have been because discipline was exclusively physical in that household. One of those children ran away a couple of times, spent several years estranged from her mom.

[noamnety]

41. My overwhelming opinion on this

is that you should graciously accept that they are raising the child not you, and your opinion about sleep schedules for their children - or my opinion about sleep schedules for their children - isn't relevant.

If it rubs you the wrong way, that's your issue to deal with, not theirs. If their kids are cranky, that's their issue to deal with, not yours.

Unless they are really endangering their kids (fastening their diapers with barbed wire or using leeches to treat the plague), I'd shrug it off as them simply having a different parenting style than you. Strained family relationships over control issues about how to raise kids will probably cause more harm than not having a regular sleep schedule.

(not that you were trying to lecture them, I recognize you didn't say or imply that you were doing that, but it sounds like internally you're fighting your own control battle and that tension might be visible to them in ways you aren't aware of.)

[seabeyond]

43. as i have stated, i am curious what others think... getting opinion is not a bad thing

and because it rubs me the wrong way, does not = having to do it my way or my way is the right way.

hence wanting to listen to other people.

which i have

and have heard that it is up in the air, how people chose this for their kids and doesn't seem to be any definite info that it is harmful, so through other peoples opinions, i can say se la vie a lot easier.

[rwheeler31]

50. Can you listen to the child?

[seabeyond]

51. yes i can. easily. and when she is at my house

and she is tired, i put her down for a nap.

[TexasObserver]

44. Agreed.

Unsolicited parenting advice is seldom welcomed by any young parent.

Some children are different from the get-go. They like to stay awake later, sleep later, and get up later. I accept that this is probably one of the "normal" ways a person can be. I suspect it has evolutionary benefits to our species. Having clan members who love to stay up late and tend the fire or stand guard over the camp or the animals sure would be a handy thing for early humans, wouldn't it?

[seabeyond]

55. *sigh* i wanted other parents opinion on a message board to. that is all. nt

[noamnety]

86. I understood that.

That's why I made the point of acknowledging you hadn't said anything to imply you were meddling, or planning to meddle.

I just recognized some warning signs based on my past experiences (emotionally wrapped up in a decision someone else owns), and wanted to bring to light as a caution, not an accusation, that offering "helpful advice" might have unintended consequences.

[seabeyond]

88. thanks. just thinking things thru

on the posts on this thread and different directions my thoughts are going with it.

[seabeyond]

83. i ask lots of question. some people seem to have issue with that.

i was talking to a friend the other day about it. questions. they are good things, in my opinion. much better than making assumptions. much more productive to resolving issues. leads to understanding.

what has happened listening to others is remembering back a decade ago, and being able to put it in a peaceful place. which was my intent. seeing how i have repeatedly said, not about talking to niece.

when one has an intent of good, that is generally the result.

when one trusts others of that ability to have intent of good, generally good results.

another lesson for me in this thread, that all does not have to be combative, if one choses it not to be. and asking questions is really the way to go. not let others beat back the natural instinct to ask.

i see unrec. why? this isnt a thread for rec, nor a thread for unrec. but that too says something

[Sarah Ibarruri]

42. Having no kids of my own, I don't know. However, my mom told me what my schedule was like...

Mom and dad had a normal schedule, up early in the a.m., to bed at a reasonable hour at night. However, try as they may, they could not acclimate me to keeping that schedule. They tried it all. They went as far as depriving me of naps during the day. Didn't work. I got even worse at night.

Today, I am STILL a night person. I hate getting up early, hate going to bed early, LOVE sleeping late and working late into the wee hours of the morning.

My opinion? People have their own internal body clocks, and no two people are the same.

[ezgoingrl]

45. I happen to have some real life experience with the same situation.

When my daughter was born, I was in the process of getting a divorce from her dad. Because of the divorce and crap her dad was threatening, I couldn't sleep, my sleep problems rubbed off on my daughter, so we just slept whenever "I could". Here we are almost 5 years down the line, staring kindergarten in the face next fall and I could not regret having her on a decent schedule more. Both of us are going through hell right now trying to get our sleep schedules back on track. She is doing much better than I am, by the way but the last few months have been horrible!! Tell your niece to fix it asap because waiting until school starts (my daughter is in pre-k) is difficult to say the least.

[seabeyond]

47. god forbid i say anything, lol lol. just asking for opinion adn experience. but

i thank you.

if nothing else, when she does come to the point of there being an issue, if there is, i will at least have listened to others on the subject and may be able to help.

people on the thread wonder if it may effect kids with school. i wondered if they cwouldnt adapt easily. so i appreciate what you are experiencing now.

[MissB]

46. One of our friends has a kid

that has always stayed up until 11 pm- as a toddler, child and now almost a teen. The kid survives on six hours of sleep a night.

It is how he lives. His parents could force him to bed earlier, but it would mess with his natural internal clock. I'm just grateful my own kids go to bed at 8:30 and get up at 6:30 seven days a week.

[seabeyond]

48. interesting

my oldest was not the best sleeper. we had schedule, but it was open to his uniqueness. he kept a book by his bed.

[BanzaiBonnie]

49. Consistency gives security

and that includes bedtime. It doesn't matter so much about the time, early or late, but that it's consistent. It sounds like the mom is letting the child make too many of the rules. There are lots of places to let children learn to make choices, but this is not a good one.

[hunter]

52. My little darlings would have destroyed the will to live of anyone who believed in schedules.

OMG, we put latches high up on the doors and we still used to worry they'd climb up on chairs, unlock the doors, and wander off into the snow.

My wife was going to school in the day, and I was working nights and/or weekends, and neither one of us ever got "quiet time" because our kids would alternate their sleep schedules so at least one of them was always awake, 24/7. They were monkeys too, no crib would confine them. Honestly, it would have taken a cage with a padlock to hold them in place so we child-proofed everything and let them sleep with us. We have lots of baby pictures where one of us is snoozing soundly and one of our kids is up to some mischief like emptying a Kleenex box to cover mommy up with a "blanket" or drawing on daddy with a felt tip marker as I'm dead asleep on the floor.

Still, whenever all of us were asleep at once in the family bed it was like a miracle.

[seabeyond]

53. funny post. just unique

how it all works out. i laughed at the "climb up on chairs, unlock the doors, and wander off into the snow.

my kids never thought to go out without a parent. funny funny

[EFerrari]

54. I had one of those fussy ones. It didn't exist at that time

but he was an ADHD baby. We found out the hard way much later.

[cynatnite]

56. It's always important for a child to get as much sleep he or she needs, however...

a set schedule is always better. No matter how impulsive children can be, they still do much better with a steady routine.

I'm not sure how old this child is, but once school starts there will be no other option than to put the him or her on a schedule. If not, the behavior will show up at school and the parent will find themselves being questioned by the teachers about this.

My oldest daughter used to let her children go like this, but it took less than a month of the oldest one in school for her to change it. All the kids are in bed by 8:30 every night. The improvement has been incredible and she hates that she was so stupid about it.

[seabeyond]

57. was there any behavorial issues.

you say improvement incredible.

my thought is though it appears she is getting the sleep, she isnt and evident in behavior. really that is my main concern. she is seeming to run the household and niece has asked repeatedly about that.

[cynatnite]

60. The kids were little hellions at home...

some of it carried over when Breanna first started school and when the teacher noticed it she requested a conference. There was some ruckus since she had to put all three on the same schedule, but it finally came together. This was last year when Breanna started kindergarden. Now she's in first grade and the kids are all behaving much better.

It sounds to me like the parents pretty much let her have her way. Sometimes the misbehavior is a means to wanting the parents to become more involved with them. Maybe that's what's happening here. She wants her parents' attention and what better way to get it. Without the parents taking the time to deal with this, her behavior will continue like this and might spill over in other areas such as school.

We've never had major issues with our kids at this age, but they've always had a routine for the most part.

I really wish I knew what to tell you, but if the parents aren't willing there isn't much you can do except hope that reality finally hits them and they change their ways.

[seabeyond]

62. my kids are 12 and 14 so has been a lot fo years since being there.

they were here tonight and i was seeing a behavior. niece and i have talked about it. but thinking after they left, i just am not remembering the same with my kids. has been so long, i wanted to hear from other parents.

appreciate it.

[grasswire]

61. there's one of those in my family too

Never had a nap time. Now almost three years old. The usual routine is for him to fizz until he's beyond calm, and then to crash, usually with some tears and exhaustion. He just falls asleep wherever he is. He stays up until nine or ten p.m.

How much easier it would have been on the child to establish a routine that signaled nap time. A book to look at in his bed or other nap place, a snuggly special blanket, and something to look forward to after nap. Easy. Positive. No issues.

Another child I know, now a teenager, suffered every night because there was no set bedtime. He was put to bed when he got so tired and irritable that his parents couldn't stand it any more. Every night, the same arguments. Wailing and tears. The message to the kid: going to bed means being banished because I'm bad.

A routine would have saved the day. A warm bath, a clock on the wall. Seven o'clock, bedtime. A story, maybe a song or two. Good night!

[seabeyond]

63. you are right. having that routine did stop battles

and it was always a nice cuddling fun time. we did bath, book then bed. lots of together quiet time.

interesting, thanks.

[mzmolly]

64. Well, one can have a routine with a later

bedtime. We have a routine, but we're night owls. ;)

[seabeyond]

72. yes. nt

[Roon]

94. Your post reminded me of the 4th of july when I was a child

Us kids went to bed so early, we set off fireworks in broad daylight.I was must have been around 5-years-old.Still enjoyed the fireworks though! :-)

[HuckleB]

65. As far as a definite schedule goes, the need depends on the age.

It does sound like she's now at an age where a schedule might benefit her, especially because it sounds like she is not getting enough sleep. Lack of sleep is probably the number one precursor for cranky toddler/pre-school age kids.

[seabeyond]

76. i know when my kids were young, not enough sleep = hell. lol. nt

[Oregone]

67. There is no one size fits all approach

Sometimes, no schedule may exist because a child may reject one, and forcing one will cause more stress for the entire family. Some parental behavior is reciprocal, and the result of a predisposition rather than a cause of the child's behavior.

We had a crash-and-burner for the first 2.5 years of my daughter's life. Nothing would work to enforce a schedule and regular bedtime. Nothing. She would be up past midnight, and up early in the morning (never slept through the night, never alone). Being able to reason somewhat helped later, but before then, we have no viable tools at our disposal.

Our next sleeps on schedule as an infant, sleeping through the night the first week.

[seabeyond]

73. interesting. these stories are reminding me of earlier days

which i wasnt remembering. i am glad yawl are sharing. thanks.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

71. I'm not a parent, but I live with parents.

And they have a one year old child who decided, as of two weeks ago, that he was not going to nap. At all. Ever. So he'll usually go down at 9PM, wake up once or twice before 1AM to have a ten minute shout, then wake up at 5:30AM. And then no naps all day. Well, maybe a 30 minute nap if you're really, really lucky. So yeah, by about 4PM he turns into Dr. Crankenstein's monster and is basically a two person job from then until bedtime.

To quote my friend, the mother, "Never have kids."

[seabeyond]

74. lol, that is not sounding very good. not enough sleep, and really....

i dont care how different that baby is. too young and not enough. lol.

poor mama. i hope she finds a way to get the kid to take a nap

for the adults sake, lol

[laundry_queen]

75. I haven't read most of the replies yet.

But I have to just pop in w/my story.

My oldest was a horrible sleeper from day 1. I couldn't get her on any kind of 'schedule' and finally just gave up. She never seemed well rested to me, but try as I might, she could never manage to sleep as much as a kid her age should. She was often up late with me, and often had whacky naps. When school was starting up, I was worried I would have a huge problem on my hands. I sat her down and had a long talk with her about going to bed and what her new bedtime would be. She was 5 so understood very well by that time. And when school did start, I had NO problems. School seemed to tire her out, so when her new, early, bedtime came around, she wanted to go to bed. lol. I haven't had any problems since.

I think every kid is different. I had friends whose babies/toddlers would just fall asleep at 7 every night and sleep till 7 am. None of my 4 kids EVER did that. My mom said I was a good sleeper (the 7 to 7 kind), but apparently my MIL says my dh was not, so it's possible it's some genetic thing. It's also possible that the child isn't fussy and out of control because she doesn't sleep on a schedule, it's possible that the child is inherently a 'high needs' child that makes it difficult for her to fall asleep and/or get a good sleep.

And after have 3 out of 4 of my kids being somewhat high needs, my best recommendation is to tire the child out with a lot of outdoor and physical activity. My kids were in swimming everday last summer and couldn't get to bed fast enough come bedtime. LOL. Well, the older ones anyway, we're still working on it with my youngest (2 yrs).

[seabeyond]

78. gosh, i am so glad yawl are telling me your stories. i really have forgotten so much

she sounds a lot like what you are describing in your first paragraph. and there may be some of that "not enough out door exercise" too.

i am gonna spend some more time just sittin with her, interacting, listening, .... see if it is high needs. i had ONE of those, lol. never made anything easy.

then again i had ONE really easy one.

[HuckleB]

81. Some studies.

More Injuries Sustained By Preschool Children Who Have Insufficient Sleep
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/98252.php


Sleep and Obesity in Preschool Children
http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(08)01152-9/abstract


New study in the journal Sleep finds that sleep duration raises the risk for diabetes
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-12/aaos-nsi111907.php

[seabeyond]

82. appreciate. it is snowing. and i am putting up the christmas tree.

so peaceful and nice.

lol, and this is in house with 2 teens and preteen. ah..... life is good. grinnin.

thanks for info. i am going to give it a read a little later.

i am realizing how much i have forgotten with other posts. once i went thru each stage i let go fo that info to go into the next stage. it has been to get a refresher from people on the board.

appreciate

[HuckleB]

85. I think we're programmed to focus on the information we need most.

Enjoy your day! It sounds wonderful. We're taking our almost 4-year-old out to get a tree in an hour.

We'll all take our naps this afternoon, however!

Cheers!

[seabeyond]

87. lol lol. i hear ya

i love 4

[LibDemAlways]

90. There was no way to put my daughter on on a schedule when she was

a baby/toddler. She was a cat napper who'd be up for a few hours and then sleep for maybe ten minutes before she was up again. At night she'd sleep for maybe two hours at a time - if I was lucky. She did not sleep through the night until she was four years old. Even today at 16 she has trouble falling asleep.

Your niece may have tried to put her baby on a schedule and found that it just wasn't happening. No two babies/toddlers are the same, and some are way more "high maintenance" than others.

[seabeyond]

92. i had one, newborn. wake 2 hours, sleep half hour. lol. all day long

until he got a little older and another newborn that could go 8 hrs without napping. so wrong.

but i hear ya

why i am glad with this thread. reminding me of mine, and hearing others. good stuff.

[mzmolly]

100. Exactly!

Sounds like my child. Didn't sleep through the night until four also. I have a friend who's first child was like this, her second was much "easier" and it had nothing to do with schedules.

[krabigirl]

91. Meh, she's not in school yet, so I don't see the problem. ro

My DD is almost 3 and sleeps in until 9:30 or 10..she goes to bed at 8:30! She just loves her sleep. Not everyone is a morning person. I am savoring this time...she starts preschool 3 x a week in Sept. Now my 1 year old wakes up at 8:30, so it's not like I really get to sleep in, but I am so glad NOT to wake up at 6am right now. ugh. My kids are cranky when I wake them up early, but it will have to happen, unfortunately, soon.

[seabeyond]

93. my youngest really needs his sleep, always has, still does.

he takes himself off to be.

but... it does feel good knowing they are getting the sleep.

i have another that sleep is harder. and he would concern me more, though appears to be a natural thing for him

[SmileyRose]

95. Try living with an adult that works "swing shift".

A regular sleep pattern is as important as the number of hours involved. Actually, even then, there are a bunch of stats out there regarding adults who work night shift. All sorts of health problems, more instance of addictions etc etc blah blah. Who knows if the people with problems just end up on swing shift or night jobs, or if the problems arise afterwards - probably some of both.

If nothing else, setting a regular sleep pattern now gets a little kid ready for the realities of modern American world - getting up for school - getting up for work etc.

[seabeyond]

102. i heard five or more yrs ago, a study done

that children with night lights tend to lukemia more than others. and they suggest it is due to the light in room waking child, and child not getting an undisturbed sleep

that seems to have come out and i havent heard much since. and so much comes out.... we are all gonna die mentality.... then it goes away quietly.

but i have heard night shift nurses come up more unhealthy than those in day too.

[mstinamotorcity]

105. I have been working with

Children for quite a number of years. I have read the post some on point and some not. What i found out is that children like consistency. When you establish a routine for your child you are preparing that child for time considerations. There will always be a time when they will have to be punctual. School,job,start of a movie, it really doesn't matter they will have to learn the value of time. Since this child is only two i would not worry that much. But if the mother is expecting another child she should take heed at getting little two baby on a light schedule so that she can figure out how to manage her time with the new baby coming. And yes people take offense when someone tries and tell them about the manner in which a child should be raised. And just because a child going to bed at a reasonable hour may seem a little old fashioned,know that it sets a good example for your child learning to get up ready and prepared to meet the day. If you want to give a little hint you can always get books about sleepy time. Try Goodnight moon. Hope it helps.