I just found out an old friend is a Palin supporter

[liberalpragmatist]

:shudders:

What's shocking is that this friend of mine - this woman - is extremely smart. Although we haven't talked in a few years, I have known her for years. She is extremely intelligent - graduated at the top of our class in my high school, received a full scholarship to a top university, and an incredible writer.

She always has been conservative; she's a deeply religious Catholic and very anti-choice. But she was also fairly idiosyncratic in her views - anti-death penalty, strongly pro-Palestinian, and a self-described "Christian Socialist" who favored single-payer universal health care.

Yet for some odd reason, she LOVES Sarah Palin. I'm floored. I cannot believe someone as bright as her would embrace Sarah Palin! It's completely mind-boggling.

Anybody else have any comparable situations?

[ixion]

1. Yeah, I found out an old high school friend was a Glen BecKKK fan

I was both flabbergasted and sad. :(

[Bobbieo]

2. Yes, several of my friends are sending all sorts of RW crap and I'm

not certain how to respond.I delete the stuff but it keeps coming in.

[liberalpragmatist]

3. It's her intelligence that I find so baffling

I just cannot understand how somebody even remotely well-informed and intelligent could NOT find Palin to be a complete idiot and joke.

[snagglepuss]

31. IMO people like Palin who are very comfortable speaking in cliches can be

extremely comforting. A faultless cascade of cliches is hypnotic.

[izquierdista]

48. Suspension of belief

People are easy to fool, and the easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman

[tigereye]

70. yeah she seems to cause otherwise intelligent and insightful people to lose

their ability to step back and see her for the shallow phony that she is...

[Kaleva]

4. Your friend's behaviour upsets your world view.

Which means your world view, especially regarding Palin, is skewed.

[sudopod]

6. Wat?

[Kaleva]

13. I slept at a Holiday Inn last night.

The OP believes that no one who is informed and intelligent would support Palin but his or her friend proves his belief to be a false one so he is shocked.

[sudopod]

21. AH, ok, gotchya! ;)

Tis true that many goodly folk have the wool pulled over their eyes.

[mitchum]

63. Or maybe her friend has suffered a severe head injury...

and is no longer quite so intelligent?

[ThatPoetGuy]

11. Or it could mean that the OP's view of the friend is skewed.

Logic can be nice. Logic is not the scary monster.

[Kaleva]

14. That's possible.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. She's smart in what way? (I'm not being facetious)

I've found that religious people not only believe the myth of their choice, but they'll defend that myth when threatened, and if that means voting in stupid ways, and doing stupid things, by golly they will.

[liberalpragmatist]

10. Intelligent and intellectual

She is very religious, and it may well be a religious identification.

Still, I find it shocking, just because it seems out of character. Although she has always been very forthright about her views on things, like I said, her political opinions (though they may have changed), have often defied easy characterization. She is very calm, persuasive, and articulate in her views. She has, at least in the past, rarely demagogued issues we've debated. I've never in the past found her to be anything but level-headed even when I disagree with her.

I just cannot understand how she could find Sarah Palin remotely qualified to be president.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

15. I think you're right. It's a religious identification.

The religious will go to any lengths (and that scares me a lot) to defend beliefs that others don't believe are rational.

[Kaleva]

22. One doesn't have to be religious to place faith in someone or something

despite the disapproval of others.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

28. What do you place faith in? nt

[Kaleva]

38. My wife, the kids, some friends.

I have faith that Wikipedia will provide me accurate answers to the questions I may have. If I had the time and inclination, I might be able to produce a rather lengthy list.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

39. :( You just made me highly depressed. I was hoping you were a cheery sort of fellow nt

[Kaleva]

49. I am quite cheerful. I enjoy the wit and humor here just as much as the political debate.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

50. Is that your photo on the left? You don't look too cheery there

:P :P :P :P :P :P

[Bobbieo]

33. What I fail to understand is how anyone can truly believe the world is only 6,000 years old.

[liberalpragmatist]

45. That's the other thing!

My friend is NOT a Creationist.

The reason I can't wrap my head around her being a Palin supporter is because she is so far from being the usual Palinista, both temperamentally and even ideologically, because while she's very socially conservative on most issues, she's very independent or even liberal on other things (and extremely well-informed). I just don't get it.

[athenasatanjesus]

7. My relatives are smart and they supported Bush

They are even very nice people which is the real shocker....
Of course they are from the suburbs of Texas.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

17. One person in my family supports Bush, and he's very intelligent. HOWEVER....

he has a streak of anger that runs through him which causes him to be violently angry at the poor, at races which tend to be discriminated against, at people who fight for these.

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. My SIL worships the ground she walks on.

50+ and absolutely 100% in the tank for Palin. Even says she started wearing heels to work again because of Sarah.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

18. She sounds pretty dumb lol Sorry, I shouldn't insult her that way. nt

[TheCowsCameHome]

37. She deserves it. Don't be sorry.

There's no communicating with her anymore.

[hatrack]

43. Anybody willing to screw up their spine as a show of support for Mrs. Potato Head . . .

. . . is indeed beyond hope!

[HughMoran]

9. Dads friend kept talking about her book

I told him I'd use it for target practice for my rifle (see how long it would take to remove her picture from the cover), but that I'd be too ashamed to be seen buying a copy. He mentioned something about "if she became President" - I said "I'd commit suicide, so there'd be no issue for me".

[sandnsea]

20. Well that's a bit extreme - but

I do think we'd have to have a DU exit strategy because none of us would deserve to live in the nut factory this country would become. I thought the country had learned a lesson with Georgie Boy and Buckshot, but clearly not.

[unpossibles]

30. don't do that - just leave for 2.5 years

which is approximately when her term would end, based on her past history.

[Lasher]

12. The answer lies in hatred.

Fear and hatred.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

19. Yep. I think these people who are allegedly intelligent, have personality problems...

In some, they're more hidden than in others. However, they all have some sort of anger, rage, etc.

[Kaleva]

23. Something we see here at DU every day.

The anger, rage, etc..

[Sarah Ibarruri]

27. You mean the way we see it in you expressed by your incessant need to use sarcasm?

Just wonderin'! O8)

[snagglepuss]

34. Bingo.

Just sayin'

[Kaleva]

40. Yep!

Most people though have been critical of my nit picking. How I zero in on a phrase or sentence and seemingly ignore the contents of the rest of the post.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

41. You certain zero in, but what you zero in on is... :-)

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[tabasco]

44. I see a lot of anger and rage at the injustice

that people like Sarah Palin want to impose on this nation.

[sandnsea]

16. Yes, my sister *sigh*

She's upper management at Alltel, now Verizon. I think she just doesn't know what a liar Palin is. If everything she said were true, like they sold that plane on Ebay and no thanks to the bridge money, well then she'd be a feisty little gal who I could have some respect for. But I know everything she has said is malarkey. I bet your friend doesn't. I've been educating my sister as much as I can. She's in Arkansas so you can imagine what she gets for news.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

25. One person in my family is an extremist right winger, and let me tell you what he does....

(1) He refuses to listen to or read anything that isn't right wing extremist. He is purposefully limiting what information he puts in his brain. He only watches FOX, for example.

(2) When logically confronted (and he purposefully removes himself from conversations where he knows he will end up being proven illogical), the minute he realizes he's lost the discussion, he resorts to the typical, standard bullshit quips and quotes used by the GOP.

His beliefs are typically Republican:

- He needs to feel he's on the side where leaders are tough, shoot people into being orderly and subservient, and he needs to feel that some people are always being punished severely.

- He loves the rich and powerful. He really does. I'm not just saying this. He kowtows to the rich and powerful and wants whatever it is they have to rub off on him.

- He has a view of God as a ruthless, mean ruler. He claims to believe in Jesus, but doesn't dwell on it since the view of Jesus is not tough, mean and punishing.

- He has an obsession with guns, is in favor of the death penalty, torture, and letting the poor starve "if they are lazy."

- He needs to feel that the poor truly are lazy and repeats this to himself and others constantly.

And btw, he's got 2 spectacular higher-degree careers, is in a Who's Who, is incredibly attractive, dresses very well, and can be very funny. But deep down inside, he's got a black heart and is a complete asshole.

[snagglepuss]

36. An excellent description of the repug mindset.

[Enthusiast]

60. It is. nt

[sandnsea]

42. My bil is somewhat like that

The husband to the sister. Even Fox News watchers have a slight chance at some reality by watching local news in some areas. But when they're in Arkansas, they're going to get talking points from every direction. I will occasionally write a local paper to correct information, but it doesn't do any good. They'd need more than just one person from across the country.

But that is a perfect description of most right wing men, in particular. Somebody needs to do a study because it's strange that this belief system is pretty much limited to white males in the US.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

47. Yes, I don't get it, tho someone once told me it has to do with the John Wayne,

shoot-everyone, cowboy image. What's amazing is that that is truly only an image. The reality is almost no one had guns back then, and people tried their best to keep from getting shot. They were careful.

[provis99]

52. Matt Taibbi would describe this as the "Peasant" mindset.

It describes your Republican family member perfectly: displaced anger, group thinking, kowtows to the feudal overlords.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

56. Yes! So true. I'm going to go looking for Matt Taibbi and see if he has any articles out there nt

[Enthusiast]

59. This must be a common

condition. I HAD a friend like this. While intelligent he was increasingly difficult to be around. At some point in his life he must have been heavily indoctrinated to hate the less fortunate (and union members). He shot himself.

[eilen]

62. Wow, you've almost described my mother in law.

He wouldn't live in Florida?

Whenever my MIL is faced with logic and truth, she resorts to name calling and declaring herself insulted. She, of course, thinks Sarah Palin is da bomb.

Anyway, I have a friend like the OP has described, very smart, Catholic, 5 kids (not including her dh) and she says things like the media was unfair to poor Palin, lied about her, was mean, attacked her, etc.-- very emotional. I looked at her in total disbelief and shock and totally dropped the subject and switched to something more local and trivial. I was obviously not going to have a objective intelligent informed conversation with her on this subject. Maybe she relates to her because she has 5 kids and works full time and supports a free-loading husband too (I didn't say that because she is my friend and I didn't want to hurt her)-- but I thought it and just typed it so maybe I'm not such a great friend after all. Or maybe she is just a little unhinged working nights constantly. Her husband listens to RW radio all day long-- maybe it seeps into her brain when she is half asleep-- I think she hardly gets any sleep at all. Isn't that how people get brainwashed?

[tigereye]

72. well, a lot of folks tend to seek out information that supports their perspective

the best thing is when people can look at things with a critical eye, and have a bit of insight, maybe question their own views..

[Contrary1]

24. I love it when one of the Sarabots states that "She tells it like it is".

Ask what she's said that impressed them so much, and watch them stutter and look at the ground trying to come up with a single example.

Seriously, try it.

[Kaleva]

35. To her followers, Palin does tell it like it is.

People will follow those who reinforce their well established world views. Trying to convince a Palin supporter that she isn't worth supporting is very hard to do if one just focuses on Palin herself because one isn't addressing the reasons they support Palin in the first place: the person's world view.

[tigereye]

73. I agree with you to a point, but it's been odd to see some women who

supported Hillary in the primary switch over to Palin (there weren't a lot, but I met a few) as if the fact that she was a woman was sufficient. (as if there were any similarities between Hillary and Palin other than their sex.)

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

26. I have some politically conservative-to-really conservative friends

Just don't talk politics with them. I have friends for that. :)

[no_hypocrisy]

29. A friend I know since age 9 loves Palin.

Thinks she's perky, fun, and a great woman generally.

This might threaten our friendship.

[pengillian101]

51. That would be a shame to lose a good friend over political crap.

A true friend will be there for you always through everything in your life.

Politics are just politics and things change every few years.

Ideals are usually fluid during one's lifetime and you may see eye to eye some day. Happens all the time.

:-)

[unpossibles]

32. I'll bet you any amount of money that she watches FOX "news"

and furthermore, I bet she believes their tag line about being the only non-biased news source. I honestly know a few people like that, who buy all of the BS that FOX sells them, and ask for more, never questioning it.

I have had a friend who surprised me on the tea parties/townhalls. I posted a rather sarcastic and cutting video of typical townhall/tea party stupidity on facebook, and this friend of mine - also an intelligent man, despite being a Libertarian - defended them, saying that this was a legitimate grassroots movement of people who are anti-government. I told him he was deluded and after his arguments against socialized medicine, reminded him that he owes his college career and middle class upbringing to government grants and his career Air Force family, that in short the government has helped him be who he is today. Of course that ended the argument.

[C_Lawyer09]

64. Most Libertarians are not anti-government

They are for limited government. I found that when I did some reading, I agreed with much of their platform, because much is based on personal freedom. There is a fairly big misunderstanding between what is perceived as a free market and what actually is a free market. Additionally there is a wide range in regard to various issues within the party. There are some enlightening articles on the Ludwig Von Mises Institute home page regarding Austrian economic principles versus Keynesian theory. I'm not an economist but some of the philosophy is intriguing. That said, single payer and the environment are two areas that I'm hard pressed to cede any ground on.

[unpossibles]

67. well, yes and no

Look my dad and several friends are hard-core Libertarians, and not just "Republicans who are afraid to identify as such after Bush" but actual party members, and I have read a LOT of the literature, I just disagree with it wholeheartedly outside of morality laws, about which I agree with.

When I say they are anti-government, I mean it. Yes, they talk about limited government, but they are still anti-government, they just want to pick and choose. Frankly, I find their ideas laughably naive for the most part, and I think most of them are pawns of people who would love nothing more than the freedom to run roughshod over us all for a buck if only the government were not stopping them (a little).

Again, I am very much for personal freedom, and I think people need to take more responsibility for their actions without question, and that we could be a bit more self-sufficient, but frankly their free market will not work in real life. Imagine just one scenario: let's say that we allow the market to regulate something like food safety. You can say, "well, the consumer will not buy tainted meat, therefore a company would be foolish to have bad safety standards because it will hurt their sales." This is true, but eventually. In the meantime how many people could possibly die from bad food, or what if the company uses its PR branch to downplay any dangers associated with their product, with little power to agencies like the FDA and the various trade regulations and laws which are meant to protect US the consumer? This already happens WITH the laws we have; to hamstring those regulations would not do us any favors, outside perhaps of thinning the gene pool a bit.

My main problem with the anti- or even limited-government types is that they forget that WE are the power behind government, or should be, according to the Constitution. To reduce that power seems ridiculous, and even more so to do so in the name of giving us more power. I do agree that WE as citizens need to be more active and responsible, and to hold our representatives accountable, but I don't think cutting off our noses to spite our face is the answer.

[AspenRose]

46. A couple of examples

One of my college friends (who graduated valedictorian in high school) loves Ron Paul

One of my high school friends has Teabagger tendencies, evidenced by her FB page :wow:

[athenasatanjesus]

55. As much as I dislike Ron Paul

I do understand how an intellectual could fall for him,he spins the constitution with the skill of Arachne.

[C_Lawyer09]

65. I think he makes a great case for auditing the FED

Maybe surprisingly, Arlo Guthrie does as well. What are the big things you don't like? I'm not asking so I can bash your answer, just curious. I found much of what Paul and other Libertarians have said in regard to the 780 billion dollar stimulus package makes a lot of sense. Paul noted much of what has come to pass from the get go.

[pengillian101]

53. People change.

That's it. No sense losing friendships over political leanings. Real friends go beyond politics.

For instance, I have a family member who holds the exact opposite views. If things come up, we each say what we want, listen to the other and then just shut the hell up so we don't argue about it.

Relatives' and friends' relationships are more important than politics to me - any day. Hard to hug and love an idea.

:-)

[liberalpragmatist]

58. I doubt I'll stop being friends with her over it

Our group of friends is geographically dispersed and we don't get to get together or talk all that often. So we don't usually let politics get in the way of catching up (even though all of us were fairly political with each other once upon a time), since we don't see a point in having confrontations when we see each other, what, once every one or two years?

I just find it baffling that she could support Palin. Simply because this friend is so completely unlike the usual Palinista - ideologically, temperamentally, etc. It's just bizarre.

[Grey]

54. Sadly,

My oldest sister is like that. Bright, kind, thoughtful, Blinded.
It's sad, really.

[agentS]

57. Maybe she's politicall Bipolar.

[hobbit709]

61. I've seen plenty of extremely intelligent people

That had little if any common sense or other critical thinking skills.

[C_Lawyer09]

66. Critical Thinking Skills

Are those that are used when one makes decisions based on facts and the evidence at hand. To me, analysis is the most important element. While I agree that these are notably absent amongst many whom refuse to watch/listen to only one media outlet, there are plenty of conservative free thinkers. It is just that they are in comparatively short supply these days, analagous to the Republican moderates whom are now notably absent within the halls of Congress.

[redqueen]

75. +1

[Firstzar]

68. the horror, the horror

[tigereye]

69. yes, a colleague at work who is a Dem was "frightend by Obama" and

felt that Palin was impressive. :wtf: She even went to a lunch with Palin. I was stunned. I do think it had something to do with this colleague liking Palin's support of causes for children with disabilities, though. It was odd, the colleague (who had also supported Hillary as I had initially) then followed me around the office to see if I was enticing more people to vote for Obama since I had been door-knocking for him (most of the other office folks are quite progressive.)


Oddly even my one colleague who is a Reagan-era Rep thought Palin was a joke.

[Arugula Latte]

71. The only Republican I still talk to voted for Obama solely because she hated Palin.

[onlyadream]

74. 99% of my friends and family love her

and they ALL watch Faux "news"...so there you go. They aren't getting the *real* Sarah. Why they watch Faux news is another story that I don't get.

[tomm2thumbs]

76. checking facebook pages for Beck, Palin and others sure is an eye opener

it has nothing to do with ANY-thing of substance - she has an (R) next to her name and that isn't a (D) and they know it drives dems crazy - so no better reason, although they will have many others to reinforce their stupidity. And stupidity it is. Palin is unqualified to run a red light, not to mention a state or country. They know it, but they don't care. Their brains broke long ago.