Are the attacks on Palin misogyny? Were the ones on Clinton during last election?

[The Straight Story]

The left hates Palin and has no problem making fun of her. The right hated Clinton - were their (or our) hatred/comments in regards to Hillary based on Misogyny?

"Reliable Sources": Misogyny in the Media
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x137799

"Clinton supporter Elton John laments US misogyny"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3262542

The Accepted Misogyny against Hillary Clinton
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5279535

Is Hillary Clinton on the way out - Misogyny stronger than racism?.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3992880

and many, many more.

Guess I am trying to find out when we use that label and when we don't....

[Blue_In_AK]

1. I would attack Sarah just as much

if she were a man with her stupid ideas and actions.

[Jamastiene]

30. To attack based on ideas and actions is not

misogyny. She is responsible for her actions and her ideas.

To attack based on gender is misogyny.

With someone like Palin, it's very easy to find GOOD SOLID reasons to disagree with her ideology and her actions, but, oddly enough some people do attack her gender more than her crazy ass ideology and actions.

[timeforpeace]

45. Did you expect anyone to say yes? Might as well ask if she's hated because she's beautiful.

[Captain Hilts]

2. Attacks on Clinton for being a DLCer weren't. Attacks for being "ambitious" and "aggressive" were.

ALL presidential candidates are aggressive and ambitious!!!!!!!

[lpbk2713]

3. Did you want to use caps on the first letters of the words in your subject line?

Just curious. :eyes:

[Warren Stupidity]

4. Yes, yes of course, that's it. I hate women.

I admit it. There is nothing at all of substance to my position on Palin other than she has a vagina.

[Bigmack]

10. Please don't use "Palin" and "vagina" in the same sentence...

I like vaginas and don't feel they should be associated with unpleasant things.

[seabeyond]

5. she used her sexuality to get votes as did the repugs. not her brain. the same

cannot be said about hillary

[Shandris]

11. This is one thing that really REALLY annoys me about Palin

Take for instance the magazine cover that she was complaining about to Oprah. If she felt it was exploitative and didn't want to do it, couldn't she merely have said so? What kind of message is she sending to young girls by saying 'Well, conservative women just get attacked by all those mean liberals, why look what they made me do on that magazine cover!' as if she were completely and utterly powerless to alter the shot in any way?! And somehow people think she's qualified to serve a term as President. I don't think she's qualified to make sure the KFC cooker temperature is accurate!

[seabeyond]

26. women have been fighting it in workplace forever. she brought it to forefront

the very thing that is most damaging to women, she waved it in all our face. HUGE step back for all of us women.

[treestar]

19. that's the difference

The right just tries to bait us with that. That's why they look for people like Thomas or Palin.

I remember their glee at putting Sandra Day O'connor on the court as the first woman. They thought we could say nothing against her or they could call it sexism.

[Prism]

6. Some of them undoubtedly are

It's a tricky balance. There is so much detestable in Sarah Palin's politics and addiction to celebrity, yet she also provides ample opportunity for too many to air misogynistic attitudes that would be disallowed against other women. I try to avoid all Palin threads on DU, because I know there will be something in there that will set my teeth to grinding 100% of the time.

The phenomenon isn't much different from when various GOPers are unmasked as gay. People often use the occasion to unleash homophobia as if it were a sigh of relief, held in too long and demanding an outlet.

I wish Palin would vanish from our politics, but she does have a minor use. She often reveals as much about her critics as she does about herself (when she isn't telling various chains of lies). It's illuminating in its way.

[greennina]

7. I think so...

but there's nothing wrong with using all of the tools at your disposal. In this case, the ends certainly do justify the means.

[blogslut]

8. Here's my take

Politics is mean, nasty business, especially during campaign season. Horrid things are said. Despicable things are done. In the end, I admire the women that slog through the muck in even pace with the men. Big girls don't cry.

[Bigmack]

9. Is it misogyny...

to dislike stupid women?

Women - like men - come in all varieties, and I happened to be attracted to smart women and turned off by vacant ones.

Is there a word like misogyny for hating men? Am I a misogynist for hating men like Boehner and Lott?

[Mz Pip]

16. The closest word I can think of

is misanthrope. But that's more of just a general dislike/mistrust of mankind.

Hating Boehner and Lott is justified as they are/were men in power who are in a position to do a lot of harm.

[mitchum]

22. "Misandry" is the word you are looking for...

hatred of men

[ZombieHorde]

12. Attacks against gender, or using gender stereotypes, are sexist; while

attacks against policy, or attacks against specific behavior (quitting everything/sniper fire) are not sexist.

Each attack should be judged on its own individual merits and flaws.

[msongs]

13. Palin uses T&A to achieve her goals - comments on it are fair nt

[mitchum]

14. Are the attacks against Dick Cheney misandry?

[enlightenment]

15. Technically, if you hate Clinton in that way it's misandry.

Misogyny is hatred of women; misanthropy is general hatred of humanity.

[SoCalDem]

17. Anytime a woman competes for a position that has previously been "men-only",

any criticism of them will be seen through a whole other prism..It's impossible to avoid. Some is misogynistic, but most is not, even though the woman being criticized (or her supporters) may see it that way.

[Posteritatis]

18. In both cases, some are, and some aren't. (nt)

[Kaleva]

32. +1

[NC_Nurse]

20. Many of the attacks on Clinton were sexist. She has never played up her looks

and acted like a stereotypical bimbo. Palin has. Clinton actually has worked her ass off for years in government. Palin
is a johnny-come-lately who doesn't know much about most issues of import.

Clinton is a policy wonk who is very articulate and informed. Palin is a talking-points-Barbie who winks and and says stupid, rambling bullshit
with sprinkled in dog whistles to religious nuts and RW'ers.

I do not see them as anything alike. The only thing they have in common is gender.

[EFerrari]

21. It's not difficult. When you attack a politician because she's a woman

that's misogyny.

[Zoeisright]

23. Palin has no substance, so the attacks on her are NOT misogyny.

Mrs. Clinton, however, knows what she's talking about and is smart and knowledgeable. The attacks on her are misogynistic because they have no basis in fact.

[LWolf]

24. I think misogyny becomes a tool

when the person you are attacking is female. I'm sure many of the attackers don't consider themselves misogynists, but are simply willing to borrow the tendencies in order to attack an enemy.

Is it okay?

No. Palin is easily targeted because she's wrong. It doesn't have to be about her gender.

Clinton as well. HRC is a strong, intelligent woman with some personal power. That combination automatically attracts misogynists who frantically rally to put them back in their place. They're dangerous to the status quo.

I'm not now, nor have I ever been, a fan of HRC, but I can see the pattern in the attacks.

In an ideal world, people would operate from a place of civility, and attack the ideas, words, or actions instead of the person.

I don't know why we complain about the presence of bullying among our young, though. Our adult society models personal attacks in every social arena as well as political.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

25. How many male politicians haul their special needs child

around on their hip as they campaign? Palin defined the terms she is criticized on.

[DemBones DemBones]

39. Mothers usually take their small babies with them

when they travel. Trig was only four or five months old when Sarah Palin started campaigning. The fact that he has Down syndrome may have made it even more important for him to be with his mother and she may have been breastfeeding him as well.
She may have also wanted to show the public that a child with Down syndrome is still a lovable child since there is considerable prejudice against special needs children. In any case, it was her business, not ours.

Men are not criticized for taking their wives and children on the campaign trail with them. When JFK ran for president in 1960, his pregnant wife sometimes traveled with him and the fact that they had a young child and were about to have another was viewed as a positive. Elizabeth Edwards and the children frequently campaigned with John Edwards in 2004 and 2008. Most other candidates for the presidency have had older children who were too involved with school to campaign a lot.

[ElboRuum]

27. Well...

They would be if she herself (and the Rep party) didn't play up looks and take up an anti-feminist stance. But it is clear that that is their and her intent. Clinton never played up anything of the sort. Her opponents introduced it.

[omega minimo]

28. The entire system is misogynistic. We operate within it. You know the answer to this, SS.

Possibly, in the global sense, possibly in the individual case or instance -- it depends on who's saying what, where when and why, doesn't it?

[The Straight Story]

41. The WHY is what is important here to me - like the boy who cried wolf

Folks against Hillary here were labeled (at times) as being misogynist. When is it a 'cop out' and when is it not to use that term?

Not once here have I seen (though I may have missed it) someone saying opposition to a female candidate in the opposition party by us (and HOW we oppose them) fits said term.

It seems it has been watered down and is thrown out as a defense when convenient - and to me over use of a term by some people does harm to the real problems folks face.

[omega minimo]

47. I have seen people on DU called on making misogynistic remarks about Palin.

[bain_sidhe]

29. I think it's an intensifier

I think it's an intensifier, for some of her critics, just like it was for some of Hillary's critics. That is, they'd hate what she was doing in any event, but they hate it *worse* because she's a woman. The same holds true with racism and Obama, IMHO - they'd hate anything he did, but they hate it more because he's African American.

[Democrats_win]

31. Palin's great accomplishment is to make us forget that conservatism IS misogyny.

If you've listened to conservatives over the past 30 years, you surely recognize how they've demeaned women in the military, in fire departments, in the police force and especially Hillary.

But now, through the magic of our stupid media, we all know that in fact misogyny never existed until Sarah Palin ran for vice president. The issue isn't that she knows less about America and it's government than every single presidential candidate before her. No, the issue is that the big eastern liberal media doesn't want her to run. She is the once and future victim of liberal misogyny.

How shocking that she would claim such a thing since Rush Limbaugh is the once and future misogynist: accusing ALL women striving for a career of being nothing but victims whether they actually are or not. Palin says, "Forget that!" We must all feel sorry for the only person who can really be a real victim. A real American: Sarah Palin. Vote for Palin because the misogynist liberal media tells you not to. That has become the essence of her message.

[walldude]

33. If hating Sarah Palin for being stupid, cruel, a narcissist, a quitter,

a liar, and a person with no morals, is misogyny then I am the misogyny king.

[Sebastian Doyle]

34. Palin is attacked for being goddamn stupid

Whether she's a stupid woman or a stupid man is irrelevant.

Where the sexism comes into play with her is on the right wing side. The only reason any of those morans like her is because they want to fuck her, and think they somehow have a chance to do so, if they vote for her.

[Zen Democrat]

35. The right opposes Clinton because she's a smart liberal .... and married to BIll.

I oppose Palin because she's a self-absorbed ignoramus.

[aquart]

36. Oh, I just love a fine false equivalent.

Hillary Clinton was qualified. Sarah Palin is not. The attacks on Hillary Clinton contained virulent misogyny. Sarah Palin has not yet achieved that level. She is currently a mere embarrassment of the Dan Quayle variety. Dan Quayle was unqualified and ridiculed although a male.

[notesdev]

37. Any public figure is fair game

and misandry is as common these days (if not more so) than misogyny.

On the other hand, I can't figure out for the life of me why Democrats are giving this woman more attention, airtime, and publicity than Republicans are.

[Confusious]

38. I dislike her 'cause she has an annoying voice

with no sentence structure, is a looney fundie, and is ignorant and doesn't want to change it.

If it was a man ( Sean Hanitty comes to mind ), I would dislike him ( I think hannity has sentence structure though. Still dislike him)

[Taverner]

40. Dumbshits are Dumbshits, male or female

Clinton was no dumbshit, so any attack on anything but policy was unfounded...

Palin, however...

[Ellen Forradalom]

42. It depends on the attack.

An attack based on politics, policies or political style isn't misogynist.

But when attacks are based solidly and soley on gender....yes, it's misogyny. Bimbo, Barbie, cartoons about punching her in the mouth, "her vagina is the source of all evil," (ewww, Andy Sullivan), rape fantasies, Sarah Palin is a C*nt...we got all that and more during the last election.

And only is misogyny wrong, it's bad politics. It's strengthening the other side's hand, as they come to see us as hypocrites with no respect for women.

[saltpoint]

43. Were Palin's debasing attacks in St. Paul on community organizers mean-

spirited, ill-considered, and anti-American?

[DemBones DemBones]

44. The sexist hatred aimed at Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin

made me very angry and depressed. There is more hatred of women today, more willingness to attack women with crude sexual terms -- in public forums, not just in private comments -- than there was in the Fifties and Sixties. Most depressing is that so many young women, and older ones, went along with the sexism.

I blame the Obama campaign for the blatantly sexist hate that emerged in 2008. They encouraged it and took part in it. Why anyone is surprised that Obama isn't protecting women in the health care legislation is a mystery to me.

[TexasObserver]

46. No. She's despised because she is a stupid, uninformed, bigot.