MUG SHOT: Woman yanks hijab off of woman in supermarket because of Ft Hood massacre

[Bluebear]

Velerie Kenney, idiot.

=====

A Tinley Park woman is charged with a hate crime after she allegedly tried to pull a headscarf off a Muslim woman while the two were grocery shopping November 7.

Valerie Kenney, 54, of Tinley Park, was shopping at Jewel Foods at 171st and Harlem when she saw the Muslim woman in her aisle.

Police Comdr. Pat McCain says Kenney said something disparaging to the woman in regards to a Muslim being responsible for the massacre at Fort Hood two days earlier. Kenney then allegedly tried to pull off the woman's hijab (headscarf).

The woman was not hurt and police were called. Tinley Park and the Cook County State's Attorney's filed charges today.

The hate crime is a felony and if she is convicted, Kenney faces a maximum 3 year prison sentence.

http://www.examiner.com/x-7520-Chicago-Crime-Examiner~y2009m11d18-Woman-charged-with-hate-crime-in-Muslim-headscarf-incident

[imdjh]

1. Would you like to place a wager on the outcome of this?

[stevedeshazer]

13. Depends on the wager.

[bigdarryl]

196. How much you want to bet she's a Glen Beck listener

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

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[Robb]

33. It's a tight race out there, could be anyone's to win. nt

[Ken Burch]

51. For the record, I was slamming the rest of the country, NOT Texas

Jeez....

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[Lisa0825]

40. Enough already! (in general, not just you) Most metro areas in Texas are Blue.

The state will turn in the next 2-3 election cycles. The Texas Forum on DU is the most active state forum. We have a LOT of good Dems here. Stop shitting on us!

[ooglymoogly]

135. We will try, but so many really bad nutjob congresscritters

come from there, not unlike most of the south. My guess it's election fraud.

[Lisa0825]

138. We have also produced some great Dems like Ann Richards,

Molly Ivins, and Barbara Jordan, among others. Meanwhile the national party has ignored our needs and used us like an ATM for out of state or national races. We have had ZERO support from the party bigs, and yet we (the grassroots) keep on trudging along, trying to make a difference, and WE ARE. But it is terribly discouraging to perpetually see fellow DUers disparaging our state, rather than supporting our efforts. We are trying to achieve a herculean task, and we are actually making progress! Please cheer us on instead of spitting on us!

:rant:

edited to add: And remember that SOB Bush was from CONNECTCUT!

[panzerfaust]

151. You must live in Austin -

- or in a different Texas than I do (same difference).

The last time Texas went Democratic in a presidential election was for LBJ in 1964 - and LBJ, unlike *, was a real Texan (and the last of the openly - unapologetically - ruthless and dishonest politicians of the old school to be elected president). http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/historical/presidential.shtml

Still, we did vote for JFK (and later killed him?) so perhaps there is hope for us after all.



But, I have not been able to find a reference showing how HOU, SAT, DFW/Garland/Arlington/Plano, AUS, Corpus, (and El Paso, Fort Stockton, Amarillo, Brownsville, Paris, Texarkanna, Alma, Roundtop, Mustang, Guerra, Tiny, Tow, and Toe {*}) voted in last years election - though I am curious to know which of these metros Went Blue (I believe - but do not know - that most did not).

But, by the next election Perry may have already succeeded in the Second Secession of Texas - so it would be moot.

-------
{*} Yes, I do know that Tiny and Toe are now gone, and that Guerra has sunk to being a CDP (Census Designated Place: ie, near ghost town)}

[Paladin]

47. Ignorant, Brain-Dead Prejudice Doesn't Just Reside In Texas, Either.

Thanks for confirming the painfully obvious with your post.....

[alfredo]

55. It's going to take a long time to cleanse Texas of the bush stain.

[Paladin]

102. Oh, I See.

So the millions of Texan Democrats who voted for Obama---and thousands of Texas DUers---are just shit out of luck, and we get to be grouped in with Bush's Texan supporters and attacked, for the foreseeable future? Unacceptable; find a new target for your prejudice......

[alfredo]

114. No, I am talking about bush. He did Texas no favors because when people

think of Texas they will think of bush. It took Kentucky a while to live down being the birthplace of Charlie Manson. Look at what Florida suffered through because of a hand full of corrupt Republicans. They are seen as a banana republic.

I wasn't attacking Texas I was commenting on what bush.Inc did to the reputation of Texas.

[Lisa0825]

139. He was born in CONNECTICUT!

He was a fucking transplant! Can't they share the blame???

:banghead:

[Name removed]

144. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lisa0825]

145. Not an outsider, but a moron, nonetheless. nt

[alfredo]

159. They have their own problems, they have Lieberman

[Ken Burch]

126. You just reposted a message the mods already deleted.

n/t.

[TxVietVet]

78. Where ever you hear druggie limpballs on the radio,

stupid is in the air. There are lots of dildoheads out there.

[Ken Burch]

125. That's my point.

I wasn't slamming Texas at all. I probably would've phrased it differently if I had a do-over.

[JI7]

3. did she go around attacking white men after Oklahoma bombing

or after George W Bush fucked up the country ?

did she attack religious fanatics after that asshole who assassinated dr tiller ?

[Name removed]

41. Deleted sub-thread

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[niceypoo]

4. Wonder how many hours of Limbaugh and Beck she listens to each week

Ha, ha, ha, stupid ignorant racist bitch!

[dsc]

35. gee the irony

calling her a racist and then using a sexist term.

[tblue]

5. The Ugly American. She even looks mean and I bet

she has no regrets.

[bluestateguy]

6. Just keep her in jail through election day 2012

I don't want her voting.

[JoeyT]

7. I don't think you have to worry about that.

If she's convicted of a felony she won't be voting anyway.

[paulsby]

8. depends on the state

fwiw. that varies greatly. not sure about her state

[WeDidIt]

153. If convicted and sentenced to the max

she might barely miss voting in 2012.

In Illinois, voting rights are immediately returned upon release.

[Lilyeye]

9. What a mean hateful witch!

[SoCalDem]

10. and a heroine in some people's eyes

The vigilante spirit is alive & well in many of our citizens.. Fear & prejudice are a dangerous mix..:(

[JonQ]

106. Who has called her a heroine?

[WeDidIt]

154. Freepers seem to think she's a heroine

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2391492/posts

[JonQ]

165. Hardly a representative sample

and I didn't read anyone calling her a hero (I skimmed it). Mostly people seemed pissed at the fort hood guy.

[otherlander]

109. While this woman is clearly not a heroine

I wouldn't disparage the vigilante spirit altogether. Why is it discouraged? The government (meaning the interests it actually represents, not the popular voice that's supposed to guide it via democratic process) seems to be using similar tactics to an abusive partner in a relationship, i.e. the alpha male: It claims that it should be respected because it "looks out" for us, by defending us from violence- if anyone fucks with us, it says, it will kick their ass and put them in jail where they can't hurt us anymore. But it then discourages us from taking any measures to defend ourselves- contradicting the notion that it wants us to be safe- because it needs us to depend upon it for safety. Thus, we will see it as our defender and provider even though the mechanism it uses to keep violence away from us is also violence, a force which it will use against us as willingly as against someone who would want to assault or murder us.

[geckosfeet]

121. Vigilante? She attacked someone in a supermarket because of her clothes. She is a blind hater.

[otherlander]

132. Yeah. I know.

But the post I was answering was lamenting the "vigilante spirit" that pervades in parts of our society... so. Just addressing that.

[panzerfaust]

152. No. She attacked someone whose clothing marked adherence to a different RELIGION

She was just doing God's Will.

[LeftishBrit]

148. First of all, the 'vigilante spirit' just breeds more violence...

It is not self defense. Self defense is fighting against those who are directly injuring you or threatening to; vigilante justice is punishment by the mob. Government-run justice sometimes gets it wrong (one reason why I oppose the death penalty); but I trust mob justice even less.

Secondly, this woman is hardly even dispensing vigilante justice. She is not punishing the perpetrator of the massacre, or anyone whom she thinks might be a perpetrator or linked to the perpetrator. She is punishing a random Muslim for the actions of another Muslim. Utterly sickening.

[Raineyb]

177. Why is vigilante spirit discouraged? Because lynching is not

and never has had anything to do with justice. It has to do with exacting revenge and exhorting power over people who are considered an "other." It is certainly not anything worth celebrating.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. I saw the Dead in Tinley Park in 1990, and the vibe was WAY fucked up.

It was probably this lady's fault.

[Raine]

12. Stupid Idiot

how can people be so ignorant. :silly:

[Enthusiast]

14. The face of intolerance.

Obviously listens to Glenn Beck and Limbaugh. These people work at their ignorance-willfully ignorant.

[thereismore]

95. Very true. nt

[BlueCollar]

15. she reminds me of the band-aid bitch...n/t

[Chipper Chat]

113. Sho is some rezemblance! Ugh!

[Hepburn]

16. What a hateful piece of shit!

Glad she was arrested.

[marmar]

17. I would have snatched that dunce cap off Kenney's head.....

.... Oh, her head IS the dunce cap? :dunce:

[Hepburn]

18. Here is a pic of the bigoted idiot and the young lady who was attacked:

Amal Abusumayah, a 28-year-old American mother of four young girls, was going about her usual shopping when she was randomly treated to a dose of derogatory comments about her faith and ethnic heritage; the offending woman, later identified as 54-year-old Valerie Kenney, referenced Fort Hood.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ahmed-rehab/hijab-case-why-bigoted-ba_b_368330.html

[Renew Deal]

21. It doesn't make sense to do that in NYC (or anywhere else).

It's not that uncommon to see this in NYC.

[imdjh]

42. Which is not to say that ethnic clashes aren't common in NY (or any other city)

[Gwendolyn]

25. The second half of that editorial in Huffpo goes into how much better religious people are

than their secular counterparts.

Haha, never fails. Doesn't matter what faith or denomination, and despite the protestations of the practitioners, the religious among us do feel superior.

[winyanstaz]

77. Thanks for the photo...it is an excellent example of auras....

If you look at the woman on the left...you will see the darkness in her aura..which when we can see it against the background of her skin tone (which should be a fair white skin tone as she is obviously white and not tanned) and which shows up as the darkness of negativity. It is easy to see the army khaki green of deceit and the darkness of her anger (laying mostly on the cheeks)..also the red tint which shows she is full of "self righteous anger".
This is basically a very angry woman.
On the woman on the right..even though her basic skin tone is obviously of a darker tint...her basic goodness shows as a brightness against her skin tone. Even being upset she is not full of hate or even anger. She is basically a nice person.

[Stevenmarc]

19. I'm sure the local Teabag group will hold a fundraiser for her defense

[Renew Deal]

20. This happened in NYC?

What an ass. She should move pretty far out of town if she doesn't want to see muslims anymore.

[Stevenmarc]

22. Mmmm no, there are no Walmarts in NYC

and we like to keep it that way

[surrealAmerican]

37. This wasn't at a walmart.

Jewel is a Chicago area chain of supermarkets.

[imdjh]

54. Wait...

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20090809/SMALLBIZ/308099963

[Stevenmarc]

90. I can't speak for Queens but I doubt it will fly on Staten Island

They were able to smash the NASCAR track and they tend to go over the bridge into NJ to save on NYC sales tax, speaking of taxes they also wont be thrilled giving them a huge tax break.

[Raineyb]

101. I don't think it'll wash in Queens either. There's one in Green Acres is one is really inclined

to spend time in that God-awful place.

[rucky]

24. Chicago burbs

but the same sentiment. If this goes to trial, the jury could go either way.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[Raineyb]

66. Last I checked Tinley Park Il was not in NYC. n/t

[AlinPA]

97. It was in a Chicago suburb. nt

[harmonicon]

134. no, just outside of Chicago in Cook County, IL (nt)

[SKKY]

23. They misspelled "Tinley Park"...

..it should be "Trailer Park".

[GoCubsGo]

57. "The Best Place to Raise Kids"

So says some magazine MSNBC reported on today. I think it was "Forbes." I grew up in that vicinity. I never thought Tinley Park was anything special. Just another white bread suburb.

I'm sorry, when I hear "Tinley Park", I can't help but think of this late 1970s ditty from a Chicago shock jock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgVqL4jFuPM

[GReedDiamond]

65. I lived in Tinley Park...

...from 1961 through 1967. Went to first-sixth grades there during that time.

Back then Tinley Park was a very small rural town, a lot of big open fields with wild pheasant, groves of trees and small ponds. I lived in a house my parents bought (in what I think was) the first housing development outside of the old center of town, which itself was built around the Rock Island Railroad depot.

Besides the railroad, TP was also famous for tornadoes which would tear through the town (and especially, the open fields, like the one right behind our house), annually.

I enjoyed living there as a kid. My friends and I built our own baseball diamond in the field behind our homes; built rafts in which we floated on the ponds; caught frogs, toads, salamanders, and garter snakes, which we would later release; built tree houses, etc. The first time I ever heard the song "Satisfaction" by the Rolling Stones was on a 6 transistor radio while sitting up in our "tree house." I haven't been back there since the early Seventies, and at that time it was still much like it had been.

I know that since then, a large concert arena was built, the urban sprawl took over, and I suppose there would be little left of what I remember with such fondness.

It is sad to me to think that the angry scowl of this bigoted, idiotic woman will be identified with the town I have such warm feelings for. I hope she gets some jail time, I don't think she'll do very well in jail.

[Prism]

68. It's pretty depressing, given the past few years

Tinley's become pretty diverse over the past couple years. After they put in a Eurofresh and several Middle-Eastern mom and pop establishments, they started getting a nice mix of people in the area, from Muslims to Eastern European, former Soviet-bloc peoples. It made for a nice atmosphere. Over the summer, just before I moved to Cali, I helped my mom with her job in the commercial corridor along Harlem between 151st and 171st, and in one day you could easily hear over a dozen languages in casual conversation.

This incident is sad =(

[GReedDiamond]

70. Thanks for the update...

...it sounds a world away from what it used to be when I was there, but the diversity sounds nice.

I came to California too (first Hollywood, then the Pasadena area) back in '76. How are you liking it here?

[Prism]

71. I'm in love

The Bay Area is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been. I never want to leave, lol.

I grew up in Oak Forest, and remember when Tinley was the epitome of boring, retail, sub-divisioned, suburban soul-death. It still is to an extent, but it's much better than it was.

[GReedDiamond]

94. I love the Bay Area too...

...it's where I really wanted to go when I came out to CA, but since I had a sister in the L.A. area, I came here first.

Now she's up there, and I'm still in SoCal. But since I'm pretty deeply entrenched here, I guess I'll be staying.

Glad to have you with us here in California, Prism!

[Warren DeMontague]

99. "a large concert arena was built" -- yep. Worst place I ever saw the Dead, too.

Bar none.

[wtmusic]

104. Tinley Park Named Best Place In U.S. To Raise Kids

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/tinley.park.best.2.1320015.html

Unless you're a Muslim, that is.

[PeaceNikki]

108. To be fair, the police and prosecutor are doing the right thing here.

[Maru Kitteh]

69. Yes because obviously - bad people live in trailer parks. Everyone knows that.

[PeaceNikki]

27. There's good news in this story.

The good news is that prosecutors are taking this kind of behavior quite seriously. :thumbsup: to the Cook County State's Attorney.

[rosesaylavee]

28. This woman looks scared ... this was an act of fear.

And no doubt, that fear was fueled by Beckkk and Limbaugh. Don't get me wrong, I think she's an idiot. But this hate-filled idiot was driven to this action by her abject fear. What can we do to get this to reverse or settle down?

[Leftist Agitator]

29. "What can we do to get this to reverse or settle down?"

Execute Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, etc. and exterminate their audience.

:sarcasm:

[rosesaylavee]

31. Well, that did occur to me too... :)

I was hoping that some here may have considered other options as there is that troubling truism of violence begetting violence...

:hi:

[rockymountaindem]

52. I'd say she looks pretty angry n/t

[rosesaylavee]

59. I think those emotions are pretty closely related.

It's the fight or flight response.

[Hansel]

74. Don't forget the fear fuel by nearly 8 years of the Bush admin

telling everyone to be afraid and to vote Republican or die.

A lot of these people really believe that now that the Dems are in charge that the horror and terror Cheney and Bush warned about with the help of Faux News, CNN and MSNBC and their constant focus on "terror", will now come true. They voted for Bush to keep them safe and now the Dems run everything. And the president is a Black Muslim non-American.

Bush should have told Americans to get up off their knees and stop cowering after a couple of month had passed from 911. Instead, he latched on to that fear as a method of gaining ever more power and manipulated the hell out of the less thinking Americans. Obama should have come into office telling Americans to stand tall and quit cowering. That we look like fools before the world. I don't think he has done as good of a job of this as he should have.

It is not just Beck and Limbaugh, they are brain washed by nearly 7 years of advanced psych-ops. No one would listen to the idiocy of Beck and Limbaugh without the subtle mind manipulation by the Bush admin that took place after 911. This country is in ever great need of a huge mental tidy. Most of these people need intense mental therapy.

[rosesaylavee]

82. That and the President is a Black man...

that scares people too and is again learned fearful behavior. There are large pockets of our country that are not well. I don't know what can be done to fix it either. But I think we better start thinking about healing some of this or we can certainly expect the nutters to continue to lash out.

[walldude]

86. Education.

You educate people. Why do you think the government keeps cutting education funding? Why do you think college is so expensive? Because the government doesn't want you educated. They want you passive and stupid so they can easily manipulate you.

And this woman looks scared yes. In her mug shot picture. I'm sure there was nothing but hate and anger in her when she did this. She had nothing to be afraid of.

[Golden Raisin]

118. Scared and Angry.

The lethal combo of the core audience/electorate of Bush, Cheney, Palin, Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity and all the other sterling 150% American patriots.

[WCGreen]

30. Usually when regular folk get their mug shot, they show some glimmer of

remorse, or a frightened flicker of realization as to what they just did in their eyes or the way the look into the camera...

Ms. Kenney shows defiance and righteousness.

I fear that awful things are coming...

[GreenStormCloud]

32. The level of hate is rising.

Recently Obama made one of his most eloquent speeches ever in an attempt to counter this rising tide. The scary part is the simple fact that he had to make such a speech in the first place. When people are scared of the other, they will elect people who will trash the constitution while pretending to protect them from the other. In WWII we put loyal Americans into camps for no other reason than mindless fear.

[Solly Mack]

34. dunderhead

[raccoon]

36. Betcha she wouldn't have done such a thing to a man.

I hope they throw the book at the perp.

[livetohike]

39. Such a bitter, angry face for a 54 year old.

What a sad way to spend life, intimidating others.

[distantearlywarning]

43. Ugh.

I wish we could just take all the morons in this country and throw them all in the sea.

Seriously, the level of dumb in America right now is just astounding sometimes.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

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[TexasObserver]

45. This is the kind mindless hatred Glenn Beck & others help create.

[HipChick]

46. Banks have been caught refusing service to women in hijabs..not just Texas

[tomm2thumbs]

48. someone should pull off that dreadful sweater

it's hellish

[lpbk2713]

49. I see an aura of hate and ignorance radiating from her.

One gets that way from continued exposure to RW Hate Radio.

[usregimechange]

53. Hate --> behavior = crime

[Odin2005]

56. What a jerk. Definitely a hate crime!

I think women wearing veils is misogynistic BS, but that is beyond is beyond the pale.

[TheBigotBasher]

92. That stance howeverhas been adopted by

the filthy hard right lunatics who approve of this type of action though. Just see the reactions of Michelle Malkin, Chesler, the PUMAs, who started up a campaign against the Barbie in Burqa charity doll.

I never heaar of similar complaints about the Tichel, or the principle of Tzniut. It seems acceptable to call out the extremes of one religion, namely Islam, but not all the others.

[kestrel91316]

141. She wasn't wearing a veil, just a hijab (the headscarf you see in

the pic). Nothing misogynistic about it. It's considered modest, like long sleeves and a dress below the knees is to Americans.

[Mari333]

58. my husband was from Tinley Park

I know the exact location of the store in the story. its a suburb , THE`suburb of suburbs, awful place. ugly big box stores and sprawling suburbia ugh ugh ugh. Not surprised this happened with the mindset of some of the bad taste I remember seeing there. Lots of republican types.
Hope to never visit there again.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

60. I live right down the street from Tinley Park

I am embarrassed, I say throw the book at this woman.

[debbierlus]

61. That is one angry looking woman

Hate filled.

And, the right just eggs these lunatics on.

Oh, wait. The right IS lunatic. Never mind.

[B3Nut]

63. She looks like the animated "Mother" character from "The Wall"

Same bitter schoolmarmish scowl. When I saw the mugshot I immediately heard Roger Waters screaming. What a pitiful creature.

[lpbk2713]

73. She makes me think of The Penguin

[Kaleva]

62. She has that "I belong in jail!" look.

[Orsino]

64. That's strange--the mug shots make the perp look white.

What were the chances of that?

[Prism]

67. Heh, Tinley

Whenever something bizarre happens in the south burbs, it's always Tinley.

It could've been worse, though. There's a Eurofresh just up the street. Had this woman accidentally stumbled in, she'd probably have started a religious war right then and there.

[dembotoz]

72. bright side? Felony-she won't be voting for a while.

[winyanstaz]

75. She needs some mental counseling and some help...

and to go to jail. She is not too bright either..so some education would also be in order.

[BoneDaddy]

76. For pulling off a hijab?

Before you go off on me, I think that white trash woman is POS. I think basic assault and battery charges should be applied, but 3 years? That is extreme.

[walldude]

3 years because of the hate crime law...

She won't do a day though. Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity will be all over this making sure this woman is portrayed as a distraught American in fear for her life from those crazy Muslim extremists.... from Virginia.

And IMHO 3 years isn't too much but it should be in a mental institution. Here you have a lady who walked into a grocery store and attacked a woman because of what she was wearing. I'd say she is a danger to society. Probably lucky she wasn't carrying a gun.

[BoneDaddy]

87. Or

she has people in the military whom she thought she was defending due to Ft. Hood, she is ignorant and thought she was doing something nobel, by her twisted standards.

People have always been afraid of the "other". To this woman, she probably has never met muslims or even condescended to try to learn about other cultures. But that is most people in most countries once you get out of the city, where diversity is, at least, tolerated.

[walldude]

88. You know I would hope that was the case...

that she had some legitimate fear instead of she was just listening to Beck or Limbaugh. At least that would give us a jumping off point. Real fears can be alleviated it's these made up fears that are scary.

:toast:

[walldude]

79. dupe

[PeaceNikki]

80. Fuck that. Criminal acts motivated by prejudice, especially acts of intimidation

should be treated as the hate-crimes that they are.

[BoneDaddy]

85. I am not disputing it was motivated by hate and fear

but pulling off a headwrap doesn't demand three years. A strong message should be sent, but that is extreme.

[PeaceNikki]

89. As others have said, that's the maximum she's not likely to get that.

The important point is that hate crimes are being taken very seriously. I applaud the police and prosecutor in this case. If you read my other post, there were 2 incidents in Tinley Park, IL (population ~58,000) in the wake of Ft. Hood.

[anigbrowl]

81. That's the maximum...she'll probably only get 3-6 months, if that

More likely community service and 6 months parole...but that's a guess, the only fact is what the statute says so they report that.

[PeaceNikki]

84. It sends the appropriate message that these kinds of race-based lash-outs are unacceptable

From: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ft-hood-tinley-park-hate-crinov19,0,7710648.story
The scarf incident was the first of two apparent race-related attacks in Tinley Park in the wake of the Fort Hood shootings, Police Chief Michael O'Connell said. On Nov. 8, a Muslim family found racist graffiti on the front of their home, O'Connell said. The person rang the family's doorbell but ran off, O'Connell said.

He said hate crimes such as the one Kenney is charged with "attack the dignity of people because of their religious beliefs, race or sexual orientation, and we don't tolerate that here."

Good on them :thumbsup:

[metalbot]

100. Agreed

She's not going to serve time (assuming that she doesn't have prior offenses), but the idea that this is a felony seems excessive given that nobody was injured.

I'm personally not a big fan of the idea of hate crimes. I've seen fights break out over sports teams prompted by what teams where endorsed on one party's clothing. It's no more or less acceptable to beat the crap out of someone for being a Red Sox fan than it is to beat the crap out of someone for being Chinese.

A crime is a crime. If it's serious enough to raise the penalty if the victim is of one ethnic group and has been targeted, then it's a serious enough crime to raise the penalty regardless of the victim.

[BrklynLiberal]

83. Ignorance is rampant.

Hope they make her take a course in comparative religions.
and do volunteer work in a Muslim orphanage or something of that ilk.

[Moosepoop]

96. Not so sure about that one...

The orphans in question have enough problems without having her around! ;)

[burning rain]

91. Prediction: the folks most desperate to exonerate Hasan of any religious motivation,....

and willing to ignore any amount of evidence to do so, will make haste to condemn Kenney for religious hate.

[TheBigotBasher]

93. A reflection on that prediction.

"God told me to do it" is often said by lifers or those on death row. Few bat an eye lid. If Hasan says it - watch stupid racists demand restarting the crusades.

[burning rain]

111. Hasan's religious motivation is already so evident....

that I doubt further statements from him would make a difference there. Anyhow, as a hardbitten Sunni, he can certainly yell "Allahu Akbar!" as he did, but claiming that God told him to do what he did would probably be heretical from his point of view, as Muhammad is held to be the last person to receive a revelation. To be sure. though, Christian maniacs often enough claim to hear God talking to them.

[wtmusic]

103. Bullshit. Find me one. nt

[burning rain]

112. Call-outs & stalking are against DU rules, as well you know.

It is simple enough to check Kenney threads against Hasan threads.

[rury]

115. I see your bullshit and raise you one war criminal

Bush: God told me to invade Iraq

President 'revealed reasons for war in private meeting'

By Rupert Cornwell in Washington
Friday, 7 October 2005

Bush: God told me to invade Iraq

President 'revealed reasons for war in private meeting'

By Rupert Cornwell in Washington


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bush-god-told-me-to-invade-iraq-509925.html

[Bluebear]

117. This has nothing to do with Hasan & everything to do with the Muslim woman who was quietly shopping

and minding her own business. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[burning rain]

127. It also has plenty to do with how people respond to Hasan and Kenney.

Funny how no-one's determined to ignore evidence and say Kenney just snapped. Thanks, my bubble's perfectly intact.

[Bluebear]

129. I would never have thought that somebody would defend Kenney here, but here you are.

[burning rain]

131. I'm not defending Kenney.

READ.

[AspenRose]

98. Treating Muslims (or minorities, or GLBTs, or women equally under the law) =

"special treatment," according to these bigots.

What the hell is wrong with people? This poor woman was minding her own business...

It is really starting to feel like Nazi Germany in some places....*shaking head*

That woman has "Darksided! Gargoyles!" eyes. Look at her. I mean, REALLY look into her eyes. :scared:

[JonQ]

105. Godwinned

One woman rips off another womans hat, first woman to go to jail for 3 years (possibly). This makes us like nazi germany.

[AspenRose]

116. Um, no

Scapegoated minorities minding their own business, being attacked by bigots for no good reason, except for what/who they are, fueled by propagandists on far-right media outlets....

Yes, that DOES sound historically similar. And I didn't say it made "us" like anything.

This kind of unprovoked persecution DOES evoke a feel like Nazi Germany in some places. Or did you not notice that hate crimes are on the rise...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/23/hate-crime-on-rise-gay-re_n_368276.html

And it's not a "hat." It's a hijab. It has religious significance; even if you don't think it does, it apparently has enough significance that her attacker singled her out. She wouldn't have likely been attacked if she was not wearing one.

If you'd prefer that I call it similar to events that led up to Rwanda (radio broadcasts scapgoating groups of people singled out for persecution and/or extermination) instead of Nazi Germany, I could do that. We haven't gotten close to the stage of mass murders. But persecution is persecution, and one death over this kind of crap (Matthew Shepard, James Byrd) is one too many.

[JonQ]

164. You don't seem to understand the difference between

individual action and collective action.

For instance, here one women independently assaulted another woman. Now she is going to jail.

In Nazi germany many people acting under the protection of the government assaulted and murdered millions of people and recieved no punishment (under that government at least) and in fact were commended for their work.

You really don't see a difference do you?

[PeaceNikki]

166. Do you disagree with the premise of hate crimes?

Sound like you do.

I think they are important and should be taken seriously.

http://criminaljustice.state.ny.us/legalservices/ch107_hate_crimes_2000.htm
Hate crimes do more than threaten the safety and welfare of all citizens. They inflict on victims incalculable physical and emotional damage and tear at the very fabric of free society. Crimes motivated by invidious hatred toward particular groups not only harm individual victims but send a powerful message of intolerance and discrimination to all members of the group to which the victim belongs. Hate crimes can and do intimidate and disrupt entire communities and vitiate the civility that is essential to healthy democratic processes. In a democratic society, citizens cannot be required to approve of the beliefs and practices of others, but must never commit criminal acts on account of them. Current law does not adequately recognize the harm to public order and individual safety that hate crimes cause. Therefore, our laws must be strengthened to provide clear recognition of the gravity of hate crimes and the compelling importance of preventing their recurrence. Accordingly, the legislature finds and declares that hate crimes should be prosecuted and punished with appropriate severity

[JonQ]

168. So because we have hate crime laws

we are nazi germany?

[PeaceNikki]

170. um.... wut?

[JonQ]

171. I was responding to a post

that stated we are essentially nazi germany because of this one womans actions. Then you posted something about hate crime laws. I'm curious as to how those make us like nazi germany.

Read the previous posts.

[PeaceNikki]

173. I think the "nazi germany" argument in this discussion is silly.

[JonQ]

174. Agreed

silly bordering on offensive.

[PeaceNikki]

175. Indeed.

[Paladin]

136. Yeah, Because Encouraging Violence Against Religious Minorities....

...is what we need to separate ourselves from the Third Reich, as far as you're concerned. Christ, do you even read this stuff before you post it? And more importantly, do the DU moderators give your posts the kind of scrutiny they clearly deserve?

[Violet_Crumble]

140. Correction. Only violence against Muslims is acceptable...

And it must continue until they learn to stop wearing funny hats and upsetting victims like the poor woman who had no choice but to rip it off her head and very maturely educate her on Muslims. Why is this poor victim's freedom of speech and freedom of choice being trampled by the supporters of political correctness all because the perp belongs to a violent cult that people need to be educated about? ;)

And I'd like to think the DU mods are keeping an eye on that person's posts about Muslims, but who knows?

[Paladin]

161. Turns Your Stomach, Doesn't It?

We've got a few troublemakers that are really turning things sour here at DU. Non-stop flame bait......

[JonQ]

172. So acceptable even

that she will now go to jail.

I'm not sure you understand the situation, if you tell me which part confuses you I will be happy to explain it to you.

[JonQ]

163. Encouraging?

Who is encouraging this?

As I recall she faces jail time. How many SS men were put in jail for mistreating jews under the third reich?

I can't believe this even needs to be stated, ridiculous.

[Paladin]

190. You're The One Who's Pissing And Moaning.......

....that this woman might have to face the consequences of her actions. Feels like encouragement, to me.......

[JonQ]

193. You could no doubt find where I stated that she should not face punishment

for her actions?

Yeah, thought so.

Your attempt to misrepresent me makes you exactly like hitler. Exactly.

[metalbot]

160. How does creating special groups of victims translate to equality?

If the same woman had decked me because her ex-husband is bald and she now hates bald people, she'd be charged with a misdemeanor.

It seems strange to me to think that certain motivations for crime make a crime a different crime. If some motivations are worse, then use those motivations at the punishment phase of the trial to apply harsher punishment. Nearly every crime has a range of punishments that can be applied.

I've seen fights break out because of what sports teams were supported on one person's clothing. Is it somehow a different crime to beat the crap out of someone for being (insert "group being treated 'equally' here") than for wearing a particular shirt?


I'm not trying to be dense (or a "bigot" to use your word) here - but there were times in America's history where it was treated as a greater crime for a black person to attack or kill a white person than the other way around. Clearly everyone would agree that is wrong. How is this different?

[PeaceNikki]

162. It's to stop violence masquerading as political activism.

http://criminaljustice.state.ny.us/legalservices/ch107_hate_crimes_2000.htm

Hate crimes do more than threaten the safety and welfare of all citizens. They inflict on victims incalculable physical and emotional damage and tear at the very fabric of free society. Crimes motivated by invidious hatred toward particular groups not only harm individual victims but send a powerful message of intolerance and discrimination to all members of the group to which the victim belongs. Hate crimes can and do intimidate and disrupt entire communities and vitiate the civility that is essential to healthy democratic processes. In a democratic society, citizens cannot be required to approve of the beliefs and practices of others, but must never commit criminal acts on account of them. Current law does not adequately recognize the harm to public order and individual safety that hate crimes cause. Therefore, our laws must be strengthened to provide clear recognition of the gravity of hate crimes and the compelling importance of preventing their recurrence. Accordingly, the legislature finds and declares that hate crimes should be prosecuted and punished with appropriate severity

[metalbot]

167. That's not a bad argument

But I still question the notion that this is giving "treating people equally under the law" as per the post I responded to. It seems to specifically protect some victims but not others. If someone chooses to mug someone because they think they are in their 50's and an easier target, that's not a hate crime, but if the attacker thinks that the victim is 60, it changes the crime. This is giving special treatment to particular victims. It may be important for societal reasons to provide special treatment to particular victims based on the reasoning articulated by the NY law, but it is definitely special treatment, not equality under the law.

[PeaceNikki]

169. The story of the OP was not one where this woman was just looking for some random victim to assault.

Instead she was motivated TO assault because of the woman's ethnicity. Because of this it's deemed a "hate-crime" and not a run-of-the-mill assault. See the difference?

[metalbot]

179. How is that different from being motivated to assault someone for another reason?

If someone assaulted someone because they were holding an "Impeach Bush" sign, is that a hate crime?

If someone assaulted someone because they were wearing a Texas Longhorns jersey at a Texas A&M game, would that be a hate crime?

If someone is assaulted for wearing the wrong gang colors in the wrong neighborhood, wouldn't that be a hate crime?

None of these are "run-of-the-mill" assaults. They all target specific people for something they are doing/wearing. But none of those people have "equal" protection under a Hate Crimes law.

[PeaceNikki]

180. Whatever. It's clear that you don't want to "get it".

So don't. Fuck if I care. Thankfully federal and state laws see hate crimes for what they are even though you don't.

[metalbot]

184. I seriously DO want to get it

I'm not trying to be obtuse here. Your first response was actually quite good, and did articulate the rational for having hate crimes punished more strongly than other crimes. What I'm questioning is why those crimes are limited to things like race, gender, orientation, and age. If it's because as a society we want to condemn violence against those groups, fine. I can understand that reasoning, but let's not pretend that it's about "equality" as stated in the original post that I was responding to (not the original post on the board).

It seems like it would make more sense to simply broaden the range of penalties available for a particular crime, and allow "hate" as a motivation (for any reason) to be a factor that can be used in sentencing, rather than making motivation turn it into a different crime. If we did that, then everyone in the scenarios that I've described would have equal protection under the law.

[Raineyb]

186. Because race gender, orientation and age are used to oppress.

Are you trying to say that being a fan of some stupid football team is the equivalent in this society of being black, female, gay in a country where the power structure is white, male and straight?

[metalbot]

192. Of course not, but violence is violence

And that's why you could simply have a range of penalties available for any crime, and use motivation as an aggravating factor in sentencing, rather than making it a separate crime. It's clearly possible to be a victim of a hate crime outside of the explicitly protected groups. By expanding the punishment range (rather than articulating it as a separate crime) you allow prosecutors to go after anyone who commits a hate crime, rather than someone who commits a hate crime against a specifically enumerated group.

On a side note, this can't be about societal oppression, because hate crime law is being used to prosecute blacks for targeting white victims.

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=121355387311981300

It's hard to argue that white women are oppressed by black teenagers. The teens involve will face felony hate crime charges, since they yelled racial slurs during the attack. But is that really what makes these guys deserving of prison? Of course not. It's the fact that they were robbing someone. The hate crime here was properly applied if race was a factor in the attack. Do you feel that they should have faced lessor charges had there been no slurs involved? I'd argue that the racial slurs they yelled were the most minor part of their crime. Is this a misuse of the hate crime law? Would it be any different if it were 4 white youths who were attacking a black woman yelling racial slurs?

[BeyondGeography]

107. She looks like a sad, angry drunk

[Bluebear]

110. Mixed with a jigger of Glenn Beck. Shake with Limbaugh and serve.

[JonQ]

194. That's how that census taker in Kentucky was killed

:rofl:

[bullwinkle428]

205. Yes, because Sparkman's death was the funniest thing that happened in years!

:eyes:

[JonQ]

206. Nope, his death wasn't funny

watching the apoplexy on here following it was. And then further hysterics when it was found that it just just a boring old suicide and that glenn beck did not in fact rape him to death with a bible, as so many assumed.

[penndragon69]

119. Typical

Red state trailer trash!

[patrice]

120. so how about we all just make a heroic martyr out of her here. This thread will end up in her

scrapbook. She will brag about what the DU writes about her.

[Bluebear]

122. How on earth do you think she will ever end up here, and how is that eggnog?

[Aramchek]

123. throw her in the hole for a little while, let her be an example to the rest of the teabaggers

[paparush]

124. Is this one of Palin's "real" Americans? Let's see Sarah embrace this racist.

[CatWoman]

128. my consolation is that I just turned 54

and I don't look half as haggard as she.

Must be the stupidity causing her to age badly.....

[Bluebear]

130. That right-wing radio hate causes that tight-lipped sourpuss.

They're always hopping mad about something, and the light leaves their faces.

[kestrel91316]

142. She looks like a habitual drinker to me.

[Catherine Vincent]

133. Look at the hate!

Her ignorance landed her mugshot all over the internet for the world to see. LOL!

[thegoodfight]

137. How could anyone defend a racist bitch like her?

She has nobody to blame but herself, if she had any conscience she would not of commited a hate crime to an innocent women, minding her own business. HELL NO I DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR HER! None of her prejudiced motives evoke any sympathy from me. Why would they? Hope she gets the maximum sentence, fuck me, Muslims can't even go into the shops these days without getting physically harassed, just because they happen to have a hijab on there head or have a tad bit more melanin in there skin.

So much for a democracy...seriously, why are right-wing news stations allowed to air in America, we all know they are not news, they are the right-wing propaganda machine, they lie (repeating the obvious here) and they fuel rednecks like her to commit heinous crimes like that, but I have a feeling, by looking at that hateful face, she'd still be a racist if it weren't for Faux News, albeit a more covert one, Faux News just plants the seed of hate and lets her know she is going to be hero among her right-wingers if she commits such a 'noble' act and she will get away with it. Not this time, BITCH.

[emilyg]

146. You had me for a second till I saw "bitch".

[Raineyb]

147. Why? The epitaph fits.

:shrug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

155. One tends to reflexively defend one that is like ourselves. And that's all I'm saying. -nt

[orbitalman]

143. Looks like something out of Stephen King n/t

[LeftishBrit]

149. Utterly disgusting

Attacking someone just because they belong to the same ethnic or religious group as the perpetrator of a crime is absolutely monstrous. Yet it happens too often.

Unfortunately these things happen in the UK too, brought on by hatred of those who are 'different'. The media (tabloids especially) would claim to condemn such actions, but they whip up the xenophobic mob spirit that leads to such actions.

[BobTheSubgenius]

150. Awwww.......you afwaid, Valerie?

*Christian side hugs*

[L0oniX]

156. My bet is that she is a christian (fake) too.

[Marr]

157. Right-wing talk radio is poison. I can't tell you how many

normal, likable people I've seen transformed into bitter, hostile, self-important jackasses by that stuff. It's non-stop scapegoating. 'You don't have a yacht because of the liberals and gays', 'you're under siege by group X,Y, and Z', 'you're a real American and these people aren't', etc.

[marshall]

158. Maybe she should move to France

It's ironic that the French government would be accused of a hate crime over here.

[LeftishBrit]

delete (dupe)

[LeftishBrit]

197. She wouldn't like France.

True, they object to Muslim religious clothes and symbols in schools, but they also object to Christian religious clothes and symbols in schools. No 'one nation under God'! Horrors!

Also: the French laws are specifically against such clothes and symbols in state schools. No one is banned from wearing the hijab in other contexts. So this woman's behaviour would be unacceptable there too.

[marshall]

204. In practice the hijab is banned in public in France

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/27/france-woman-wearing-hija_n_270436.html

The law does allow for small Christian jewelry.

[SmileyRose]

176. This thread disappoints me

I assumed, wrongly so, that progressives have more sense than to bring physical appearance into it.

The best thing that could happen to Valerie Kenney is to spend 5 hrs a week for the next 6 months of probation with Muslim women willing to mentor her.

Looks, age, economic levels - none of this has anything to do with the fact Valerie believed her local news stations, corporate media, the interwebs, talk radio and the POS that was POTUS for 8 years - that Muslims are to blame for everything from teen acne to the world economic crisis. And if we don't nuke every damn Muslim off the planet they are going to kill us all.

Poor Valerie should be able to believe the newspapers and the President of the United States. I don't know that we really ever could, or ever will, be able to trust those entrusted with the truth in this country, but Valerie is hardly to blame for trusting them.

[Raineyb]

178. I see no reason to punish the women by subjecting them to Valerie the racist cow. n/t

[SmileyRose]

181. VOLUNTEERS

CAIR has volunteers willing to interact with people to combat misinformation and hate. Every mosque I've ever dealt with (not a lot but more than a few) has a group of men and women who volunteer for community education purposes.

Racism thrives on ignorance and distance and dies with interaction and education - nearly always.

[Raineyb]

185. You really think that the cow is going to learn anything? Or will she sit there with that nasty

look on her face until her time is up and then go back to her usual hateful bigotry along with a smirky story about how she got off with a tickle?

[SmileyRose]

187. The only hate I see at the moment

isn't Valerie's.

She may be lost forever. Perhaps too late for her. Perhaps too late for any of us - but IMHO we have to start somewhere.

[Raineyb]

189. I don't care. Racists like her made my life fucking miserable

And I bloody well don't have the time, nor the inclination to wait for racists to see the light. SOME of us have to live on the receiving end of racism and would prefer not to see these people given a tickle when they abuse someone because of their racism. I'll save my compassion for the woman who deserves it. Valerie's VICTIM.

Amazing how it's perfectly appropriate to be nasty to criminals in any other circumstance except for hate crimes. When the perp commits a hate crime we're supposed to be "compassionate." Fuck that noise the bitch doesn't deserve it! I hope they throw the bloody book at her!

[SmileyRose]

191. No one is talking about lesser punishment, not me certainly.

I make no distinction between crimes. Hate crimes or regular old crimes. My post is not from a point of compassion at all. It is pure pragmatism. Once the book in thrown and punishment extracted, there is a life to be lived. Eventually she will be out in public again. Sure, it's possible court ordered diversity education will only give her another reason to hate. But from a purely practical standpoint we have to at least try.

[Raineyb]

195. Why? We don't bother with other assaults.

She still assaulted the woman and if there hadn't been the additional hate crime provision would you be making the argument that the potential maximum was too much?

The harshness of punishment never seems to be a problem until some racist idiot gets caught up in a hate crime. Then suddenly we start hearing about education and compassion. Eventually most other criminals end up out in the public but your view doesn't seem to extend to them. So what's so special about this woman that she shouldn't get the book thrown at her like any other thug?

[SmileyRose]

198. Yes we do

there are all sorts of court ordered education

anger management - http://www.courtorderedclasses.com/

drugs - http://www.georgiaprofessionalcounselingcenter.com/home/evaluations.html

child abuse/neglect - http://www.atlantamoms.com/HTML/parentingclasses.html

sex offenders - http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/pgm&svcs/pgms&svcs-sexofftrtpgm.htm

court ordered diversity training - http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/03/02/public-works-employee-gets-probation-for-39whites-only39-sign/

[Raineyb]

199. And there are jails. Which is where this rancid woman belongs.

Because being forced to do something to change doesn't mean squat if they're not willing and that woman isn't willing. And frankly the odds are most of the time people end up in prison not in court ordered education.

I bet some time in prison will straighten Valerie out though a hell of a lot more than some "education" that if she were interested in getting she'd have gotten BEFORE assaulting the woman minding her own business.

[SmileyRose]

200. Do you plan for her to die in prison?

if not she will leave jail eventually. Then what? Seems to me SOME attempt at education might be a practical choice.

But that's just me.

[Raineyb]

201. No but like I said earlier. Most people don't die in prison either.

And their education doesn't seem to be much of a priority. So why is she so special?

[SmileyRose]

202. Again

there are all sorts of court ordered education programs as part of re-entry to society - either while in prison or after leaving. There's nothing special about what I proposed in my initial post. I'm at a complete loss as to why you think there is. Some states are better at providing rehabilitation services than others, but I'm not aware of ANY state that offers NO education and rehabilitation programs to inmates or parolees.

[Raineyb]

203. Then she can get her "education" in prison then.

I suspect that's not quite what you're advocating though.

[walldude]

182. Bullshit. Lots of people are afraid of others. Yet they manage

to get through the day without attacking someone. The best thing that can happen is to get this woman off the street before she goes and buys a gun.

[SmileyRose]

183. short term yes, long term no

short term, a period of incarceration will go a long way toward reminding her attacking people in the grocery store is unacceptable behavior. It's unrealistic to expect to lock someone up for life for something like this - and it's my bet there are family and friends in the wings who feel the same as Valerie does, but lack the stupidity required to lose it in public. At some point Valerie is going to run across someone "different". Long term, I simply believe a little "diversity training" would go a long way toward helping Valerie and probably the people around her.

[Taverner]

188. What a stupid fucker

You can see the lines in her face from all that hatred burning inside