Fragmentation vs Wholeness: Why there is no sense of connection in America

[undergroundpanther]

Several times in my childhood, when I was 9, 14 and 17 years old, I remember going to Taiwan and that for some reason, around my relatives, I was able to be myself, speak my heart out and become very talkative. There was this feeling of acceptance that made me feel healthy and whole on the inside. I was able to be who I was without fear, insecurity or inhibition. It brought out a part of me that was normally suppressed and subdued in the US. Each time I went back to the US, I felt depressed and insecure again. I didn't understand why, and it didn't make sense to me.



At that time, I was fully indoctrinated into the idea that America was the greatest country in the world, the leader of the free world, the nation that all other nations looked up to, and I believed it too. So I could not reconcile that with the fact that I felt more happy, healthy and whole overseas. I didn't know how to make sense of it, and I dared not to speak of it to my peers of course, lest they think that there's something wrong with me. As you know, admitting that you feel insecure and depressed in America is seen as a huge sign of weakness, so most will never admit it. Plus I thought I was the only one who felt that way and that no one could relate to it anyway.



Also, when I was a teen, my level of awareness was low and I had no communication skills so I would not have been able to articulate my feelings at the time anyway. So I just tried to slowly forget this experience over time, and returned to my dream that someday I'd be a great person in America with an exciting life, rewarding career, and beautiful woman to love. (but to no avail of course)



It wasn't until I reached 30 when my level of awareness, insight and communication/writing skills had reached new heights and I began traveling overseas long term, that I understood why I felt that way when I went to Taiwan as a teen.This is not just physical but psychological, as "every man is an island" in mind and attitude, as well as body. That's why one often feels "alone" in America even while amongst friends or in crowded places. Worst of all, people are conditioned to think that this is “normal” and how people naturally are – segregated, selfish and paranoid – but in fact nothing could be further from the truth. That is NOT how humans are by nature. That is how people are socially engineered to be in the US.
Moreover, this inherent disconnectedness and fragmentation in US society makes it awkward and unnatural to socialize and meet other people, or even to make friends. It just doesn’t come naturally, so to speak. And of course, dating between men and women also suffer. Simply put, the whole essence of human relationships is severely eroded by the fundamental fragmentation and disconnectedness in America. In America, one is never truly “accepted” the way they are, instead one has to constantly “prove their worth” under neverending pressure. Unfortunately, without true acceptance, one can never be truly “whole”.
http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Page15a.htm

[truedelphi]

1. Over the years I have known a few people who worked for the Peace Corps

They blossomed in the overseas culture, where they had been sent to "Help" the third world people.

But in the end, they liked the culture of whatever place they had been assigned much better than the culture of the nation that had sent them forth.

The Modern World in the USA is all about fitting into the culture of the Giant Corporations. The American culture no longer has much in the way of inter-connected community, unless you are living in a rural area.

[Go2Peace]

12. That was my experience as well. I hope to head back out of the country again.

many of us in America are like "walking dead" compared to how folks are living in many other parts of the world.

The most incidious thing is we have been so propagandized to think we are so "free", but american culture is far from that.

I HIGHLY recommend living abroad. You have to be there at least 6 months though.

[virgogal]

2. Sorry you've been so unhappy .

[Go2Peace]

15. You can be a totally repressed republican bot and think you are "happy"

think about that next time you think "everything in my world is ok" because you aren't feeling any "unhappyness".

By the way, the OP was linking to the post. They did not say they were unhappy.

[bobbolink]

3. You so beautifully articulate what has been in my mind for quite a while now.

We misfits who really need connection are at a loss in this country.

:hug:

[RagAss]

4. So true...we have no culture here...we have no soul here......to put it another way....

"This is the dead land. This is cactus land."

T. S. Eliot

[Go2Peace]

11. we have also stopped teaching about the humanities and arts. Philosophy is a dying interest.

We have become a very "material" society, and not just in the scense of material goods, but in what is always in front of us. Pop psychology abounds, but is anyone reading works of philosophy these days? Correct me if I am wrong?

[SuffertheMasses]

24. Yeah right

As if anybody would take the time to do something "hard" like that. It's so much easier to post flames on liberal/conservative message boards, follow the every move of celebrities, tweet, socially-network, play video games, text message, on and on and on. (Look at me, doing the same thing. lol)

With all that junk, who has the time to seek knowledge out for themselves? The only reason people get an "education" anymore is to get a job that pays a living wage (good luck with that!) If people were to step back for about 23 seconds, they might be able to question why there are so many distractions and why are we so attracted to them. I keep getting the gnawing feeling that something big is on the way and we don't want to see it.

I used to actually talk about philosophy with people who now tweet about their brats and their stupid jobs and whatever technological nonsense they desire to weigh themselves down with. And these are "intelligent", "educated" people. What do stupid people talk about? (If that wasn't a flame invitation then I don't know what constitutes one.)

Hold on tightly to avoid being thrown to the wolves.

[Delphinus]

41. The distractions ... yes.

Too many distractions.

I often get the feeling that life, as we are living it (or forced to live it in order to survive), is just not the way it's supposed to be.

Interesting feeling you have - that we're not looking at what's on the horizon.

Welcome to DU.

[surrealAmerican]

61. That's the gist of it.

Something is big and awful and right in front of us, and we will go to any length to keep ourselves from seeing it.

Welcome to DU.

[cali]

49. no culture and no soul eh?

I spent yesterday at a holiday open house here:

http://www.oldstonehousemuseum.org/

It's in the middle of nowhere and it's magical.

A few miles down the road from me is this:

http://breadandpuppet.org/

And then there's this:
http://www.circussmirkus.org/

And so much more. All homegrown, local expressions of community and the arts in a very, very rural place.




http://www.circussmirkus.org/

[SuffertheMasses]

5. Conflict

I like your post, and have actually noticed this same phenomenon of which you speak. It seems that this country was born, and thrives, on conflict. It's just too bad that we have been socialized in this manner and may never get along. If people could stop pointing fingers at this or that political party, or this or that viewpoint, religion, race, country, sexual orientation, etc. we might just realize that somehow we have got to put all that junk aside and work on doing what's best for people. American business has thrived on the conflict model however, and it is now perpetuated and exploited to humorous proportions wherever you look. If you just buy the right things than you can separate yourself from the pack and be special. Live the American dream - get a good education (and not learn anything), get a good job (still not paying you an equal share), contribute your money to taxes/social security/medicare (which you will never benefit from), and believe that you are better than the people you see on TV who are sick and can't get health care, who are losing their homes, having to eat Thanksgiving dinner at a rescue mission while the media blares incessantly about a stupid prank at a gratuitous function.

You are better than your neighbor, you deserve the things you have in life, this is the best country in the world, it doesn't matter if I do this or that, I'm just one person -- and what will it hurt? Keeping people separate is good business (and good for oppressive governments too, but that is a whole different story).

Thanks for the post, it's good to know that there are more out there that have their eyes open. As different as "They" would like us to think that we are, we all look the same when we're piles of maggot-feeding goo.

[Go2Peace]

18. We have been actively taught for many decades the material philosophies that we live by

I think it happens in many societies. It is not difficult for authoritiarians and people with aggressive natures to influence society to a point like where we are at.

How do you break such an institutional pattern? Education could do it, but that would take decades of consistant effort. I think it is often complete collapse or war that "resets" the social pattern unfortunately. When everyone loses everything they learn again what is important.

Most other countries have had wars or collapses that decimated them. We had the "great depression", but our institutions and powers were relatively unnaffected.

[Bigmack]

6. A possible reason for the .....

"inherent disconnectedness and fragmentation in US society" may be that this country is just too large. Too many regions... each with its own culture.

Somebody from rural Alabama has little culture in common with somebody from Seattle. Each feels his culture is best, too.

European countries are so much smaller that people from the French coast can easily visit the other parts of their country.... and several other countries, too. They're more homogenous.

I think our foreign adventures are colored by our size, too. A huge country with lots of raw materials can field an army and support a war machine that smaller countries can't.

What can we do about our size? Damned if I know.

[HughMoran]

7. We certainly are more stoic here in the Northeast

I wouldn't be so bold as to speak for the entire country, but what you describe is certainly true in some areas and may be "exclusively American".

[undergroundpanther]

8. I didn't write the story

I linked to an e book that speaks about the same issues I bring up here.
I was quoting the writer in my OP. I think he is right on target.It does feel like a prison here.
And all my life whenever I felt connected, and got"talkative"seemed people did not like it,specially my family.
Living this way has always felt like someone else a parent,'authority' or a bully who was resentful of me wanted to erase me.Make me into someone else suitable to be used for their own comforts.

[HughMoran]

35. I do think we've lost our soul in the broader sense

I was complaining here just last week that we seem to have lost the kind of connectedness we had even back in the 60's and 70's (assuming you were alive then). Perhaps it's all linked and we're generally more "right-wing" as a nation - meaning we're more dispassionate and afraid/distrusting of each other. You know something - I think you're really onto something here. We need to come together in real life and work together for a common goal again. The internet does not let us do this and in fact leads to us more easily being controlled by the government. Just look at what is happening here lately - something is not right. I wish there was a forum dedicated to "taking back the soul of America" where we could figure out how to get back much of the connectedness (as in real life) that seems to be missing. Hmmm, now you've got me thinking....

[bobbolink]

43. "Wanted to erase me". Exactly! Authentic people are a damned THREAT!

Lately, I've been thinking about the book, KNOTS.

Its brilliant and says a lot about all these things.

But its not in vogue to think or talk that way anymore. :(

[Triana]

9. We are also increasingly separated from our natural environment and that contributes...

...to this indifference. But maybe that's more worldwide than US specific. I just can't help but feeling that our inconsiderate, parasitic, rapacious, free ride on this planet is starting to bite us in the collective a$$ and it's only gonna get worse.

It has been my experience also that in America, "acceptance" is hard to come by and there is pressure to constantly "earn" it. Americans and their corporations are bigoted, greedy, narrow-minded, judgemental, selfish, self-righteous (generally speaking) and have lost sight 'the big picture' eons ago - or even any semblance of priorities, right from wrong, decency or morality - and no it's not just about abortion and birth control - the basis of those two pretentious issues is control, not morality. Americans don't even know what that word really means, IMO. If it did, there would not be 90-something year old ladies living homeless in their cars or being dumped in streets.

The opposite of love isn't hate. It's indifference. And American seems to thrive on that, along with narrow-minded judgementalism, and abject ignorance fomented in and by a McNews/infotainment medialoid vulture-culture.

Retirement to me will likely mean leaving this place. I don't see any improvement. I don't give a damn who or what is President. They're all bought and sold.

[truedelphi]

14. Yes we are increasingly separated.from nature

In many ways I am gratreful for the illness the spouse suffered that kept us here in rural America. We don't have any discretionary income at all, and sometimes skimp on the basics, but I spend almost every day noticing wildlife and cloud formations and working on the land. (In this winter weather, I am building some rock walls and finding that inspirational.)

I feel mentally sound at those times, with a deep satisfaction that the "Real World" never provided.

Whenever I am back in the City, the "psychic noises" and the distress on so many people's faces is so astounding to me. And it was like this even before the eeconomy tanked - it has just gotten worse.

[SuffertheMasses]

30. Nature

Yes, I often wonder how much of a part the natural world contributes to that realization that society is really messed up. I was fortunately forced to live in the middle of nowhere for a portion of my life and I do believe that experience provided clarity that I might not otherwise had received. When you are out in the deep woods and realize that you are the only human for miles, it makes you appreciate how small our lives really are. Too bad the technology linking the rat race can't stay away.

[AdHocSolver]

44. A person needs some solitude, a chance to step back and think about the world.

Television, talk radio, the internet, and cell phones link everyone to everyone else so that there is constant prattle in a person's mind, that precludes contemplation or serious thinking.

One of the saddest sights is seeing people shopping, walking, and driving with a cell phone constantly to their head. It seems like you could envision a group of people at a party all talking to other people in the same room using a cell phone, rather than talking face to face.

At work, the corporate environment frowns on any conversation or activity that is not directly beneficial to company profits. This mentality is internalized by people and carries over into people's personal lives. People are tethered to their jobs by the cell phone and the internet.

People are afraid to think about their lives, because it is too scary to face up to reality. It is better to lose oneself in work, mindless entertainment, or useless prattle than to discuss serious issues intelligently. One doesn't even think about such things, or you might lose your "edge", and not be able to effectively continue your "role" in society.

[SuffertheMasses]

28. Word

To "narrow-minded judgementalism" and our "bought and sold" so-called representatives.

You made me think of the American polarization of ideas with your 3rd part (love/hate). There is no middle ground is there? I'm surprised to say that I can't think of one thing that people can collectively say isn't this or that. Aristotelian logic has really hit us where it hurts on that front. My hero Robert Anton Wilson wrote all about this dilemma in one of the least fun but maybe most mind expanding books of his - "Quantum Psychology". But anyway, we have this bad habit of seeing everything as black or white (terms used are not a coincidence), good/bad, right/wrong, immigrant/natural, etc. This definitely confines us as a culture.

[Go2Peace]

36. absolutely.

What is surprising is the polarization of ideas is growing in liberal circles as well.

[Go2Peace]

10. We have been so heavily brainwashed we are mentally ill in some ways

I say that seriously. Having lived outside the country it becomes obvious that, at least in terms of social fabric and connectivity, we are really seriously messed up. Our families are not at all what the right wing would have us believe. Our homes and our workplaces are heavily dysfunctional. The average person is isolated and has few friends. We heavily trend toward narcisistic personality disorder.

Don't get me wrong, there are a definitely a lot of fairly healthy people here too, and I don't mean to sound like I am cutting at my fellows, but we need to start talking realistically about how far we are moving along the unhealthy spectrum.

Good post.

[undergroundpanther]

13. Mental illness

Is VERY common in America.As is Trauma.1 in 4 girls are raped before age 18,often blamed for being raped.
Trauma, social control,stockholm syndrome twords bullies,authority figures and perps,and brainwashing go hand in hand to create a sociopathic nation of disconnected broken hearted bystanders, the mentally crushed,victims and victimizers getting away with soul murder.

[Go2Peace]

16. Yes, it is hard to see if you haven't anything to compare with

And it is not much discussed in media. But how can our institutions recognize it and deal with it if they have nothing to compare it to?

I am a total advocate for people traveling and seeing the world for just that reason. Especially now that we live in such a heavily manipulated society.

[Odin2005]

17. +1. I have PTSD from being bullied.

:hug:

[Echo In Light]

56. Official Culture in America: A Natural State of Psychopathy?

By Laura Knight-Jadczyk

July 30, 2003: KAH - The subject of the extremely narrow point of view of most Americans as opposed to the majority of other peoples in the world came up in a conversation the other day. The people having the conversation were, as it happens, mostly American. One of them commented that Americans had been "programmed" to their point of view by mass media propaganda for a very long time and that it was simply a very normal part of American life and basically, always had been. She concluded, "Whoever denies it is either ignorant or has an agenda."

That may be so. It may be true that the "pied pipers" of denial have an agenda. But what, then, does one say or do about the ignorance of the vast majority of Americans? Why and how is it that the trap of Fascism is closing on them before their very eyes and no matter how many voices - the number is increasing every day - are raised to point out this danger, they simply do not seem to get it?

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/official_culture.htm

"The modern susceptibility to conformity and obedience to authority indicates that the truth endorsed by authority is likely to be accepted as such by a majority of people, who are innately obedient to authority. This obedience-truth will then become a consensus-truth accepted by many individuals unable to stand alone against the majority. In this way, the truth promulgated by the propaganda system - however irrational - stands a good chance of becoming the consensus, and may come to seem self-evident common sense." ~ David Edwards, author of Burning All Illusions

[MadHound]

19. I think that in many ways your sense of connectiveness is what you personally make of it

I've always had a great sense of being part of a community, either the one that I was born into, or later on in life, the ones that I made. Perhaps this is an issue of where one lives in the country, or of one's personality. But I've found that I can find a sense of community and connectiveness where ever I go, here or abroad.

[Go2Peace]

20. Study: 25% of Americans have no one to confide in

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-06-22-friendship_x.htm

"In 1985, the average American had three people in whom to confide matters that were important to them, says a study in today's American Sociological Review. In 2004, that number dropped to two, and one in four had no close confidants at all...."


"Also, research has linked social isolation and loneliness to mental and physical illness."

[snagglepuss]

21. I have two very different responses. What you describe is not unique to the US,

for instance Japan with its suicide rate, Russia and the UK with their alarming rates of alcoholism, are countries that also suffer from what you describe as unique to the US. And these are just the countries that come quickly to mind. IMO countries which have seen an upsurge of fundamentalism are countries whose populations are also experiencing the same sense of disconnection. People flock to fundie religions because they provide an immediate sense of belonging and identity to adherents,alleviating that sense of fragmentation because everybody is believes the same thing.


That said, my other response is to agree with you and suggest Philip Slater's "Pursuit of Loneliness" written in the early 1980's. He writes about the same thing as you do in the OP. He thinks that the US has placed way too much emphasis on the individual pursuit and not enough on any collective pursuit. And he goes into great detail about the emotional and social ramifications of hyper individualism.


As an aside, I remember watching a Canadian daytime show back in the nineties. On the show that day were six American and six Canadian bachelors. What struck me is that none of the American guys wanted to admit any failing whereas the Canadians guys listed all sorts of personal faults. The difference was glaring. However having had several American boyfriends, I can't say I've found that to be the case on a personal level.

[leftstreet]

26. That book is relevant even today

Maybe even more so.

A must read

[Go2Peace]

33. As an aside, Russians do drink, a lot, but they are extremely social people

They are moving toward fundamentalistic thinking though. Putin, after watching how powerful Bush was, has recognized the power of nationalism. He has embarked on a program to ramp up "patriotic" feelings and they are moving toward more authoritarian thinking. They have a "youth corps" now called "Nashi" (Our, as in Our Russia) that is growing a movement of patriotism and Russian exceptionalism.

[paulsby]

22. you may feel that way in america, i certainly don't

i've noticed especially in small town america that there is a great sense of community.

what i see in your post is one person's experience and trying to extrapolate it to society at large.

i've traveled EXTENSIVELY. i frigging dig costa rica, france, mexico, canada, israel, and the UK

and i have to say that egypt and nicaragua are... interesting :)

maybe you just aren't part of something that makes a community. as a surfer, i felt a grand sense of community with all surfers, but especially those that shared waves in my area. ditto for my fellow strength athletes. it's a great community. we train together, suffer together, win together, lose together, eat teriyaki together, etc.

and yet again, another post (i was just discussing this in another thread) where the basic theme is 'america sucks and those other countries are just so much better'

yawn...

[hansont]

23. Glad you have a different experience. What is your response to the study?

Did you read it. So apparently you buck the trend. Good for you.

The purpose is not to trash "america", but how can people improve the situation and solve social problems if you don't identify and admit them?

[paulsby]

25. i saw what looks like one guy

begging a question and oversimplifying.

he is right that , compared to many countries, we do have enhanced concepts of privacy and individuality. heck, those are manifested in many of the expanded rights we enjoy vs. many countries in re: search and seizure, and much greater freedom to speak our mind vs. many countries that criminalize "hate speech", etc.

i would agree that in many (if not most) cities, what he says is more true than in many other cities worldwide.

but when it comes to suburban and country living, i would strongly disagree. i find it ironic that in cities people can live literally a wall away from another family and not know them at all, whereas in the country and in suburbia, we have a GREaT sense of community.

[undergroundpanther]

38. Not in my suburb

I don't know my neighbors except 1. I am far more 'radical' in looks and politics than anyone my age out here.I tend to have freinds in the twenty to thirty range.I think I relate to them because it is before job ,house,kids takes them over.

[ShamelessHussy]

63. he has a whole website on the topic with lots of folks who identify with what he/she is articulating

count me, as one of them.

i have spent many years living abroad and have definitely noticed how generally uptight and fragmented our society is.

i blame it mostly on our corporate marketing culture that permeates everything.

i am VERY thankful for my very liberating experience of living abroad which has allowed me to see things, especially at home, from a whole new perspective.

[cali]

50. there is no study. it's the subjective experience of one person. n/t

[Go2Peace]

27. I have a fairly rich social experience, but that doesn't mean we don't have a social issue

Primarily because of my contacts with other cultures. I have lots of friends in the immigrant cultures here.

But you know, I think a lot of people that post about issues like this are like me, they recognize that these issues affect a lot of people, even if not them personally (at least at the moment).

And the studies suggest that we have a serious problem.

Your analysis of our intentions were incorrect. And our concerns exist outside our own welfare, as I am sure yours do. if our culture as a whole is driving toward isolations that has many implications.

Why wouldn't you want to get dialog going and bring it forefront. Do you think it is a good thing that we have a third less social contacts than 20 years ago? Is it good to be isolated? How do you propose we fix things if we deny them so we don't seem like "complainers"? Seriously..?

[SuffertheMasses]

32. Well I have a good life and y'all are a bunch of crybabies.

More of the divisiveness and one-upedness (new word) that were previously referred to. As this cat is saying, people should be working towards being united as everything tries to drive us apart. Just because the room is dark doesn't mean you are blind. However, you do have to be willing to turn the light on if you want to see.

[Go2Peace]

34. del

misunderstood your post.

I agree, but we also need to look into what is bringing about the social isolation. It's going to be hard to build if it is breaking on the other side at the same time.

[smalll]

29. I don't blame anything in America's soul -- it's much more concrete --

two things:

1) Car culture. Not only is meeting people basically impossible when one goes everywhere in our enclosed little boxes, but of course the fact we are so reliant on our cars has caused a very lonely, suburb-and-strip-mall physical environment to grow up around us.

2) The fact that so many of us move a number of times during our lives.

I think we could maybe even deal with number 1 if number 2 wasn't around. Someone upthread mentioned that life in small towns is social in its own way, and close-knit, and I'm sure it is, for those born and raised there. But how many of us today are not only born and raised in small towns, but also still living in those same towns?

I feel this problem quite strongly on a personal level. I actually live in a major city, and have for five years now. I've lived around about this city for many years now, but in different places at different times. Anyway, over a year ago I lost the job that brought me to where I now live. I'm struggling now to find a way to stay where I am. I'm already OK with making less money than I did before, I'm just struggling now to make my life financially sustainable.

When I first lost the job, I felt OK with it -- for one reason, as I told people, "I have no wife and no kids. I could move anywhere." What I've come to realize though is that it's just BECAUSE I have no wife and no kids that I don't want to move again. It would kill me to be what I am -- a single 40-year-old balding man -- having to move back into car-based America alone.

Over the past five years where I live, I've actually made social connections, with people of differing ages and positions in life. What has facilitated most of it? The fact that I'm living in a city where I can actually WALK to (and home from) a very pleasant bar (yes, horror of horrors, a bar!) I can't give up the social connections I've made, I won't -- I won't go gently into that "good" night of loneliness!

Which brings me to two final points -- Perhaps I can add to reason #1 and #2 a third reason why we are so alone these days -- most Americans don't have easy access to what is called a "Third Place" -- a place that isn't work or home where you can naturally and comfortably meet and get to know people who we don't work with or who we aren't related to. When Starbucks was first started, the Starbucks in-house ideologists at first theorized that Starbucks could become that missing Third Place -- of course it never worked out that way. People may arrange to meet friends at Starbucks, but people don't go to Starbucks on their own to socially interact with strangers (except for, I guess, the insane and pick-up artists.) In modern society, really only bars/pubs can be that Third Place -- but by chaining ourselves to cars, we have made a pub-going lifestyle dangerous and illegal.

Oh, and back to point number 2 -- the moving around. It's not just small towns that have a close-knit social life -- it happens in cities too -- in neighborhoods. But again, one really needs to be born and raised in that neighborhood to get the benefit of it.

[Go2Peace]

31. Good Points...

We spend half our life at work though, which I think is one of the factors. We are tremendously competitive and zealously "productive", and we are fast "outlawing" friendship at work. But the workplace is where many cultures get much of their social interaction from. I am not sure we can ever have a balanced society unless we change our work culture and work "ethic".

You make a really good point about pubs though. I wonder if in places with urban development where they have "mini-communities" with stores and restuarants, if people don't have a smaller degree of isolation.

[cali]

47. lol. no, you don't have to have been raised in a small town to reap the

benefits you describe. I wasn't raised in the Northeast Kingdom, I moved here 30 years ago and I immediately felt a sense of connectedness that has, of course, grown over the years. I belong to the grange. I have friends that are like family- more like family than the family I grew up in, in fact.

[NuttyFluffers]

53. i will note, that for all our prominent parks, we have a real lack of "public space"

outside of the mall, we have no real gathering place to just be out and about and socialize. when every neighborhood has a park and a mall, and commerce and outdoors are strictly separate it's hard to find a place to just relax and be. i have noticed more malls making their interior plazas more like a living room, so as to create this "public place," but with the intensity of commerce around, it still has trouble really working. compared to other places that would have the town square, or promenade, etc. we really are alone in the sense that car culture cannot accommodate this because of lack of parking and the distance we often live from each other.

it seems like Americans would do better if there were more regular fairs and festivals and regularly took up public parking lots as human ambling zones. humans seem to need a place to see nature, buy small things, sit down, walk about, look at others, without any sense of pressure from turnover rate at the parking lot, or through purchasing of brought merchandise.

[Festivito]

37. Wonderful thread with separate branches saying the same thing.

We may feel alone, but we are not.

[Odin2005]

39. This is the end result of car culture and suburban sprawl.

It's no accident that the most vibrant communities tend to have a high population density.

[mdmc]

40. nice op

:toast:

[Delphinus]

42. Good post.

From the linked blog:

And best selling author and motivational speaker Wayne Dyer noted:
“The ego thrives on separateness. Authentic freedom is found by absolving this sense of separateness from others and God.” – Wayne Dyer (Four Pathways to Success, audio tape)

So true - we are all one. Goes back to the web of life and how we are all strands in this web.

Our "separateness", though, is going to be our downfall. From a paper I put together earlier this year, I think the following says a lot:

The four processes by which empires always eventually fall seem to me to be inescapably operative, in varying degrees, in this latest empire. And I think a combination of several or all of them will bring about its collapse within the next 15 years or so.

Jared Diamond's recent book detailing the ways societies collapse suggests that American society, or industrial civilization as a whole, once it is aware of the dangers of its current course, can learn from the failures of the past and avoid their fates. But it will never happen, and for a reason Diamond himself understands.

As he says, in his analysis of the doomed Norse society on Greenland that collapsed in the early 15th century: "The values to which people cling most stubbornly under inappropriate conditions are those values that were previously the source of their greatest triumphs over adversity." If this is so, and his examples would seem to prove it, then we can isolate the values of American society that have been responsible for its greatest triumphs and know that we will cling to them no matter what. They are, in one rough mixture, capitalism, individualism, nationalism, technophilia, and humanism (as the dominance of humans over nature). There is no chance whatever, no matter how grave and obvious the threat, that as a society that we will abandon those.

Hence no chance to escape the collapse of empire.

[proteus_lives]

45. What a bunch of crap.

I've been aboard and it's a good experience but America is "soulless"? "uncultured"? Biased nonsense.

More and more, "It's not my fault, it's the fault of society." bull.

"Each time I went back to the US, I felt depressed and insecure again. I didn't understand why, and it didn't make sense to me."

Newsflash genius, it's about you. Not the ground under your feet.

I read the essay and it's same "America is the land of barbarians" crap we all heard in college.

Here's a tip. Travel around America! We're a nation of 300+ million, hundreds of faiths, cultures and ways of living. You don't like where you are, then move. But the person next door might have found his bliss in the same place you spit on.

This author is a master of projecting and denial.

[malletgirl02]

48. United States

While I think you went a bit far by calling the OP's post crap, I do agree with you. The US has culture, they people who say are clueless. Jazz is an American invention, some of the greatest movies of all time were made by Americans. Americans have made their mark in all fields, science, literature, theater, even opera :).

[cali]

46. not even remotely how it is where I live.

[HamdenRice]

51. Umm, is that website mostly about getting mail order brides, Filipina hookers and bar girls?

There's a pun in the site's name, "happier abroad" but I'm not going to say it.

On edit: Looks like it is. See post below.

[NuttyFluffers]

52. this sounds like ridiculous hokum, total rosy-colored glasses view of other cultures.

this is essentially an argument about USA's purchase into Individualism vs. "Old World" Social Community (Old World being wherever the "other" is from Western Civ). it also tries to lay at Western Civ's feet that colonialism brought about the evils of Individualism, and that is the true nexus of where the evils come from. in part, yes, one can make the argument that Selfishness vs. Selflessness is a real crisis for the spirit and the source of great pains and struggles.

however, this glosses over whether Social Communities can be Selfish as well. and if anyone bothered to read ANYTHING from pre- or post-colonial literature about civilizations outside of Western Europe and its direct progeny, then you'd realize that it wasn't all happy day for everyone involved. there was often a strict hierarchy of classes, and the outsider and weird were deliberately supposed to be the scapegoats and whipping posts of the community. all this lovey-dovey wholeness sounds great when you aren't the target of abuse because you are the slave girl, or a "witch," or sexual "deviant," or somehow the current target of the community.

that's where the power of Individualism came in. people can now ESCAPE these static, cloistered, essentially provincial places and RUN AWAY to make their lives better (or at least hope to). under these old Social Community networks, your burden can be as bad or worse than starving on the cold streets of Individualist City, Gloriosa, USA.

what America, as an individualistic society, challenges you do to is EXAMINE your identity -- something unthinkable in provincial society. yes, it can be scary, disconnecting, self-corroding, and everything else under the sun, but it's still yours if you'll own up to it -- and there's still time to change if you want. under a tribal, feudal, provincial, village framework, sure people can get together and help each other; sure they suffer in lean times together, and celebrate in good; sure they always represent the roots you can connect to -- but there's a price. you have to know your place, and it's decided for you from outside, and it's not easy (if even possible) to change.

we take this flexibility of status and family and identity for granted -- that's because we have the freedom to chose Individualism and escape and reinvent ourselves. that's a huge amount of power that we take for granted. the rest of the world, that's not a real option (often it's, "you break the social understanding, you become the outcast as punishment"). the trade-off is shared prosperity & hardship in a tight community, but the price is obedience and forbearance. individuality gives you flexibility and escape in case you find yourself on the outs, but the price is uncertainty and real individual risk.

America has done just fine making and remaking its own cultures and subcultures -- ones that would be totally alien, if not outright attacked and destroyed, in other places. the proof is easily available -- go to any other land and talk about your strange music, or polyamorous non-marrying lifestyle, talk about LGBTI issues, talk about social classes and mobility or escape, talk of cultural mixing and accommodation. yeah, "the village" is wonderful when you are welcomed and are somewhere between the middle and the top -- so is the rest of the world. big deal. talk to me when you are the culturally licensed dog to be kicked around, where you're alone and not allowed to leave and find a critical mass of your own. not all cultures allow ghettoes; sometimes they believe in oppression, isolation, and extermination instead.

this is glowing happy talk from someone who probably grew up in a cliquish high school in USA and takes way too many of their tearful nights crying into their pillow to heart. really, the rest of the world can be far, far worse. feh, true acceptance can't be found in the USA -- my ass! all this glowing talk of ex-pat life sounds like pouty words of "the accepted," if i ever heard it. now try being an ex-pat where you are likely to be kicked aside or killed, and now look at your passport and imagine if you couldn't escape...

shallow happy talk...

[HamdenRice]

54. While I agree with the overall idea of the OP, the link opens up to a world of batshit crazy!

Even a person with profound psychological problems can have good insights. But a simple google of the author of happier abroad, a guy named Winston Wu, opens up to a whole world of the bizarre -- Filipina hookers, on line libel grudge matches between computer geeks, halucinations, etc.

Here's a taste from Wu's "opponent" Stephan Muth:

http://www.winston-wu.com/background.html

Why does this web site even exist? In brief, Winston Wu was an employee of mine from November 2006 until March of 2007. He was fired due to mind-blowing laziness, incompetence, sex addiction and personal hygiene problems -- all exacerbated by mental illness(es). Since being fired, he has chosen to run an obsessive online campaign consisting of email stalking and posting incessant libelous statements about myself and my business wherever he can find a web site that will publish his rants.

According less biased sources -- including those who have employed him, dated him, or spent time with him in general -- he is a bizarre sex-addict 'loser' living with Narcissistic Personality Disorder in his own fantasy world of prostitutes, funded mainly by is father. Having started a 'family', he abandons it at every opportunity; at the time of writing (February, 2009), he has been overseas by himself for over one month. One can only hope that recent housing and stock market declines have stunted his father's future funding ability.
...
In March of 2007 I stepped back to look at my situation: I had an offensive (to myself, to others, in appearance, in smell, in attitude) man living in my house who paid little attention to personal hygiene; I was doing all nontrivial work myself; because of him I had a new bar girl (prostitute) in my house every few days. Worse still, all attempts at persuading him to moderate his behavior fell on deaf ears. And for this, I was paying good money. Although it was hard for me, I told him that he would have to leave if he could not change. He said he could not change, and left voluntarily but nevertheless bitter.
...
Some people do have genuine issues with Winston, however.

It's not that Winston Wu is a sex tourist disguised as a self-proclaimed 'spiritual' man 'seeking a fulfilling relationship'. Few sex tourists admit their real identities, even to themselves.

It's not that Winston Wu is the most extreme cheapskate tight-wad ever known. Spending wisely is a good trait, especially when the money is needed for prostitutes.

Perhaps it is his personal hygiene problems ranging from spraying urine anywhere but into a toilet, to leaving squashed feces on toilet seats, to people slipping on used condoms in his bedroom, to his bedroom stink keeping out even the housekeeper, to not showering regularly because he'll "only get sweaty again later"? Not really, since he lives in his own apartment now.

No, those aren't the biggest problems that people have with Winston Wu.

<end quote>

So eventually, "happier abroad" is about Wu's sex life with Russian and Filipina bar girls and prostitutes, as a way of overcoming shyness and mental illness.

Wu of course thinks Stephan Muth is a raging, psychotic, abusive employer.


Hey, it's entertaining anyway.

[cali]

55. I thought the OP was pretty lousy before reading this

yes, he has one or two valid points, but those points are valid for other cultures and they aren't universally valid as pertains to our culture.

[HamdenRice]

57. Wow! Dangers of linking without fully reading! The site is mainly about sex tourism

and how many "gorgeous" "girls" Wu has "banged."

You don't even need the other guy's site to know that Wu is demented.

Not exactly the kind of source on which to base a critique of the culture of American late capitalism.

:rofl:

[cali]

58. yeah, the guy's foundation of connectedness is rooted in how many prostitutes

he can fuck.

[HamdenRice]

59. As I'm looking around the OP link site, yeah, that pretty much sums it up-Happiness through hookers

[MilesColtrane]

66. Wow.

Photo collage "proof" of how many willing partners prostitutes he's had.

I think we've located the man with the smallest dick in the world.

[Odin2005]

64. WOW!

What a slimeball! :puke:

[Mari333]

60. you must create little gardens where you are

in January I will have artists and musicians coming to my home here in this little community for monday night dinners. We will share ideas and enjoy each other's creativity and humour and imagination.
Its out there, in small communities, and it has always been thus, I think. I have seen the commercial, lost side of the USA, but I have never bought into it, and looked for the gardens of people who were looking for something else.
They are there.

[undergroundpanther]

62. I just read the first page I linked to

Had no ideas this guy was selling brides or glorifying hookers.That's putrid.

The things the article despite it's daffy part about how everything is better overseas, it brought up, the issue of social isolation and the lack of community here, I thought was the real point.At least it was my point for even posting the OP.But despite the stupidity and vomitile actions of this wu guy..It got people talking about isolation and other issues about culture and that is exactly what I wanted to happen!

[deutsey]

65. This is relatively common for people who leave their working-class background,

go to college, and become part of the "white-collar world".

It's true to my experience, anyway.