The nuns are rebelling against a Vatican sponsored inquisition.

[cap]

http://ncronline.org/news/women/women-religious-not-complying-vatican-study?page=1

Go Nuns!

[Cleita]

1. Interesting.

I was practically raised by nuns and they made a feminist out of me back in a time when women stayed home and didn't aspire to very much in the professional world other than being some man's secretary. They bolstered my confidence to attempt to achieve my goals in spite of glass ceilings and the educational obstacles that were put in the way of women back then. Mostly, women were expected to go into teaching or nursing if seeking a professional life. I believe the bee they put in the ears of my generation was behind much of the feminist movement that would erupt in the sixties.

[Kingofalldems]

2. They were very strict but I was always struck by their dedication

[poverlay]

3. My first few years of schooling were by nuns. There are no finer or more dedicated teachers than

nuns.
While I am no longer "religious" there are few groups that I have more respect for.

Screw sending more troops to Afganistan, just send a host of Sister Mary whatevers and their rulers. I know I'd sleep better at night...

[Cleita]

4. LOL!

You just gave me a picture of a nun slapping a Taliban war lord on the knuckles with a ruler after she demanded his Kalishnikov from him.

:rofl:

[poverlay]

6. EXaactly...Then they have to write "I will not slaughter innocents in the name of Allah." 10,000

times on the chalkboard...

[patrice]

5. Oh my . . .

She said women religious have been virtually unanimous in spirit that they have been living out their missions, as directed by the gospels and by the Second Vatican Council, which called upon religious communities to go out in the world to work among the poor and to build more just and peaceful structures.

She explained that in the process church prelates lost the control over women religious congregations they once had. She said many women religious believe the investigation is part of an effort to regain that control.

"Vatican II took us out of the ghettos and into ecology, feminism and justice in the world," she said. "The Vatican still has a difficult time accepting that."

Some of the women interviewed by NCR cite an irony involved in the investigation. One said that it is "unlikely the Vatican wanted us to come out of this being more confident of our identity as self-defining religious agents, but that is exactly what has happened.

I know women are second class Catholics, but I always thought nuns had somekind of authority within "the Church" - didn't know this:

Several women said canon lawyers told the women they were not required to answer all the questions. Religious, unlike bishops, priests and deacons, who make up the clergy, are not officially part of the church's hierarchical structure. According to this reasoning, women religious are responsible to their congregation leadership and to their constitutions.

Nuns get a bad rap in popular culture.

I was schooled by nuns through the 10th grade. There were some neurotics, but no more than the general population. They were stern creatures not given to flattery and there were some whom I can credit with awakening my love of literature and my appreciation of critical thinking and logic.

Odd I should happen across this today as I had a conversation on another blog earlier where some women are discussing religion in general and how messed up everything is and they made statements about the strong NEED for women in secular environments to step forward and accept the responsibilities of power.

[omega minimo]

8. almost as if the male dominated hierarchical pyramid system needs to addressed on many levels

interconnected as they are.........

:wow: :hi:

[patrice]

10. This IS kind of exciting. Gonna' share it with my big Catholic family.

I still won't be going back to the church and we probably shouldn't overstate what will come out of this, but any clear definition of their autonomy will be inspiring!

I look forward to following this issue.

:hi: yourself :hi:

[omega minimo]

12. and looky here looky here, who's connecting THESE particular dots:

"Vatican II took us out of the ghettos and into ecology, feminism and justice in the world," she said. "The Vatican still has a difficult time accepting that."

As does DU. All of these are interconnected. If these brave souls can ignite the spark of awareness in more people's minds and hearts, more power to 'em. :toast:

[patrice]

18. Speaking of dots, I also wonder what this might just very possibly have to do with the HCR debate

here in the states.

Catholic Health Care IS a Big Deal and nuns, though few they are, are also essential to its operation at ALL levels.

[omega minimo]

23. They care about education, too, thank GOD!!

:spray:

[patrice]

24. Yeah, that too! The more I think about it, the more I think this is meddling in American

domestic politics.

[dflprincess]

9. You didn't know the nuns were (technically) at the bottom of the food chain?

Being a nun didn't even count as a sacrament and they all had to take vows of poverty. One of my friends had an aunt who was (still is actually) when she came for a visit she had to travel with another nun, stay at a local convent (not even with her parents) and was not suppose to enter a relative's home even for a meal. So she always visited in the summer when they could have a picnic.

What really irked me was when Rome decided people other than priests could help hand out Communion and they allowed laymen to do that before they let the nuns up on the altar. I really thought that was disgusting.

[omega minimo]

11. must be why they're called "nones"

[Iggo]

14. What's the only position a woman can hold in the catholic church?

Nun.

[knitter4democracy]

26. It depends on which order she was in.

Some orders are fine with visiting family, staying outside of the convent, etc.

[dflprincess]

30. The aunt in question belongs to the Sisters of St. Joseph

They've lightened up quite a lot since we were kids. I recently reconnected with the friend whose aunt she is and "Aunt Sister" is still a member of the order but working for a state agency with mentally ill people. Has been for years and is trying to make sure she never winds up retired at the mother house.

[eridani]

15. I'd agree with the "no more than the general population" part

I ran into a couple of sadists, but most were both strict and fair.

[patrice]

16. I wonder what would have happened to the priest pederasts if nuns had been included

in the decision making hierarchy.

What do you suppose Ratzinger is willing to trade for (some? more? all?) control over them?

[eridani]

29. A very good question

When I was a kid in the 50s, nuns were very deferential to priests. That has changed, I think. I think the child molesting is a matter of statistics as well--priests are not more inclined than average to do it. The problem is the utter failure of the Church as an institution to take responsibility for it.

[omega minimo]

7. words use your WORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Iggo]

13. oops...wrong spot.

[Mari333]

17. nuns are pretty hip, actually

the ones I had as a kid were even cool.
But now they wear blue jeans and T shirts and are pretty well educated awesome women.
I always liked nuns.

[patrice]

19. I went to public school my senior year of highschool and was astounded in the difference in my

education compared to theirs.

They were doing stuff we had done in the 9th grade and they had NO foundations in the mechanics of English, a.k.a Syntax and Grammar.

Yeah, I met a couple of bitches along the way in Catholic schools AND Catholic Culture is extremely class conscious, but all of that (and my German mother) just made me tough.

[pipi_k]

22. The coolest nun of all...

:7

[hedgehog]

20. Technically speaking, it should be Go Sisters!

A nun is a woman who lives in a cloister, a sister is a woman who lives in a religious community. So all nuns are sisters, but not all sisters are nuns. Cloistered nuns choose a monastic life dedicated to prayer. Sisters choose a ministerial life dedicated to serving God by serving others.

Over the years, the ministerial Sisters have been more and more active and less inclined to be meek and retiring. They are quite likely to say something along the lines of "The Church teaches ..... but I personally think that ...." when it comes to topics such as divorce, married priests, women priests and gays. Sisters tend to be older women, and those who enter the ministerial orders end to be middle aged women who have had other careers. They model a non-consumerist lifestyle. For example, their clothes will be modest, neat, inexpensive and often quite attractive. They will wear a suit for business and jeans when off-duty.

The monastic orders continue to attract new members, mostly in their early twenties. They tend to be vigorous supporters of the Pope, bishops and priests. Much is made of wearing the old style habit as a symbol of devotion to God.

I don't have the numbers, but it's my impression that the ministerial sisters outnumber the cloistered nuns and attract more new entrants. It appears to me that this inquisition is an attempt by a number of right wing elements to suppress the Sisters in an attempt to bolster the numbers of the conservative cloistered orders. Evidently, it hasn't occurred to these people that women actually have other choices besides marriage and the convent these days!

The bishops stood to one side and left the Sisters hanging in the wind even though the Sisters do a lot of the heavy lifting in every diocese. The bishops came out to support the Sisters only when the vatican announced that it expected the American dioceses to pay the costs of the investigations.


National Catholic Reporter has an excellent series of articles on this inquisition.

[pipi_k]

21. Speaking of sisters....

When I was a wee child, my dad had to spend some time in a nearby (Catholic) hospital. I remember my mom taking us there, and walking in, and there were all these really scary women walking around dressed in black and white.

My mom addressed them as "Sister"..."Good morning, Sister"..."Hello, Sister"...


And I thought, wow...are all these people really her sisters? And...why do all her sisters live in this hospital?


hahaha

the innocence of youth!

:7

[knitter4democracy]

27. Exactly!

They always let the Sisters swing the wind. *sigh*

[knitter4democracy]

25. Now, that sounds like something the Sisters I taught with would do.

Salt of the Earth kind of people who believe strongly in peace, justice, and equal rights for all.

[dflprincess]

31. I've always said it was the sisters at Cathechism that turned me into a liberal

(and this was preVatican II). They pounded the Corporal Acts of Mercy into our puny little heads

Pretty radical ideas:

1.Feed the hungry
2.Give drink to the thirsty
3.Clothe the naked
4.Shelter the Homeless
5.Visit the sick
6.Visit the imprisoned
7.Bury the dead and comfort the bereaved


(I suppose Stephen Colbert might add - "unless 2 guys register at Pottery Barn, then **** it." - He made the observation in response to the Church saying it will withdraw all support from services for the poor in the D.C. area if D.C. legalizes same sex marriage.)

[Odin2005]

28. +1,000,000,000,000