Is it OK to Share Something personal with my DU Family Here?

[Wiley50]

Martin, Do you Remember Dr Turner, the old wobbly
socialist retired optometrist, who ran The Book Store on west 8th, a block down from the library. He became my best friend when I was 12. Turned me one to all kinds of leftie books;Started me off with the Beat Poets:Ginsburg,Braughtigan, then Vonnegut,etc,even had me reading Monday Night Class before The Caravan came through my home town and decided to stay.

You know, I think some people thought I was taking too many of my pain pills and that's why I had that spell of losing my balance. But that isn't true. Every Visit at my Primary care/ pain management Dr, his name is Dr Luck, I have to take my pills with me and his nurse counts them out. If even one is missing and I don't have a good reason, I don't get them back and they would dismiss me as a patient. That's why it's so strange that he agreed to let me smoke pot (they often do urine drug screens too) while I'm on Interferon for the third time and even while I'm "shopping" for Medical Grade pot. He knows my life is on the line this time. He's a good man.

That day I stumbled coming up the back steps and knocked over all those chairs and Cindy came flying out the back door screaming that she was telepathic, she wasn't reading my mind. I was just bewildered and embarrassed. If I had my wits about me I'd have said, "We all are. Stephen Gaskin started teaching Martin, me and a few other thousand people that back in 1967. Where were you then?"

I know you don't go to the farm often, but if you are ever there with Cindy, take her to the cemetery and show her my son, Stephen's grave. Pam's is right beside it now. Just tell her that Stephen Gaskin married us and Ina May Delivered our child.
Don't say anymore.

After stephen died, I blamed her in my deep grief that I was in for several years.
She had treated him too rough in my opinion. I wanted him raised in pure love.And then there was the incident when I came home early from work (this is when we were living above the Tye Dye Shop) and heard her screaming and ran in expecting the worst and found it. She was standing above the crib screaming at him and had a pillow raised above her head with both hands, he was crying. I scooped him up and drove to Stephen and Ina May's. They got Vickie M. to keep the baby for a couple of weeks and, since they were leaving for California on a trip, they had us house sit, as a vacation for us, while they were gone. That stayed in the back of my head and every time a doctor told me he didn't know why my baby died and it was odd for a 22 month baby to die of crib death, it ate at my soul.

Pam was from a poor, uneducated family with alcoholic parents and that''s the way she was raised. So that's all she knew, though I patiently tried to teach her. I never should have married her, but I had gotten her pregnant and that's the way us southern boys are raised.Something must have stuck. She chose to be buried at The Farm and had a headstone made for him. it says "The Best Baby"

You can show this one to Cindy if you think it would do any good, but that's not why I wrote it. I'm crying my eyes out now.

Love

Wiley

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. Although I'm not certain I understand this fully, I am so sorry

And I hope and wish the best in your life and pray that things will go well.

[Wiley50]

6. Thankyou, that is what I need right now, a family

I'm so all alone in this sailboat. That's why I'm always on DU

My blood family all became Republicans, changed their email and phone numbers, just because I am me.

Politics should always take a back seat to Family

[Sarah Ibarruri]

9. I'm sorry, Wiley. :(

You sound like a very good, kind person who's been destined to live a difficult time for reasons we know not. I agree that politics is an evil that destroys families. In particular I think that right wingerism, with its fascist tendencies, is very damaging not only to families, to friendship as well.

Have you found anyone in your neck of the woods that you can talk to? That is so helpful.

[Wiley50]

14. Martin is here. We lost contact in the '80's after tthe baby died I moved away

A few months back, a mutual friend (who is a DUer, I inducted him)sent out a group email. Martin saw my email address and we re-connnected.

The only problem is his wife. I've given her several nice gifts including two pairs of seamstress's pinking shears that have been in my family several generations. She's never even said thank you. I stay away from her house (I live in my boat behind their barn, 100 yards away. Martin and I converse via email (this is one of them and by phone (he always calls so she doesn't have to answer and speak to me. and comes up for visits.

Funny thing. Her father loves sailboats and has become my friend and helps me with my projects.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

29. That's wonderful that her father has become your friend.

It sounds like you are a seafaring person.

[Christa]

2. Oh

:hug:

no words

[angstlessk]

3. Well, she cannot be brought to justice now, can she?

[Wiley50]

7. She's dead. Aheart attack

[cali]

4. take care of yourself, wiley.

I know we don't see eye to eye on much, but I wish you the best. hope you can get the help you need.

[Wiley50]

13. Being here helps

and no I've never gotten along well with Vermonter moderates or vermonter Republicans (not saying you are one)

[cali]

15. OK, I'm gonna be straight with you.

I think you're suffering from some kind of mental breakdown and you really need help. I hope there's someone in real life who can help you get it.

[Wiley50]

22. I have a counseler and a shrink (mandatory for folks on pain management) n/t

[Fly by night]

49. Thank you for your honesty. Time for someone to take cotton out of his ears ...

... and put it into his mouth. That includes posting personal rationalizations for continued self-destruction here.

It is painful for all of us who care about Wiley to watch this slow (and verbose) descent into a hell of his own making. Maybe some of you can get through to him, because his Tennessee friends (including me) are not being successful.

Love you Wiley. Get your shit together. Before you run out of backyards to park your boat in.

[cali]

50. well, I see a lot of "idiot compassion" on this thread

I understand the urge to do that, but it's more destructive than helpful. Really helping Wiley can get the help he needs and not just enabling..

[Fly by night]

51. I think we're able to present (and "frame") ourselves on the 'nets in ways ...

... that are harder in a 3-dimensional world.

It's not appropriate for me to have to ask Wiley to listen to those around him (including the silence of a number of them) and hear what is being said. But what Wiley is doing now seems very inappropriate also.

He either will ... or he won't.

We either get it ... or we don't.

No matter where we go, there we are. If things keep smelling bad at every turn, sometimes it's important to look at what's right under our own noses.

Love all y'all. That's all I've got. (Really.)

[Wiley50]

54. Well, Bernie, I feel much better today. And I'm doing fine

without your 12-step preaching (that you;'ve admitted your 12-step past and current yourself right here on this board) to preach to me to not take the medicine my doctor has lawfully prescribed to help me get well. 12-step doesn't work for everyone and the physical pain is not controlled by anything other that the morphine and fentanyl you keep preaching at me to stop taking and I take only the doseage prescribed as confirmed by my doctor.

What happend to me yesterday was that I woke up from bad dreams about the loss of my child and was haunted by them all day. That's all it was and I came here for support. You have sent me 4 pm's in the last few days telling me to get off of the morphine my doctor prescribes for terrible pain you don't understand. You see everything from a 12 step viewpoint and it is not appreciated. You only cause me trouble. I follow all of my doctor's rules as confirmed by his records.

So Please

Butt Out!

[Wiley50]

55. Wel, Cali, I feel fine today. I had bad dreams of a lost child night before last

and wrote out my feelings about it here for support.

I have a couselor and shrink but they can't be here all of the time.

I follow all of my doctor's rules and only take the doseages he prescribes.

I don't really understand what you mean by idiot compassion, but if it means what I think you mean Please kindly leave it be

[Wiley50]

56. Bernie, take your services as a 12step recruiter elsewhere and stay out of my life

You've sent me four pm's in the last 3 days urging me to get off the morphine and start worshiping a doorknob or something as my higher power.
You are simply a recruiter for a cult.

Severe Chronic Pain is the Most Under treated Illness in the US.

If your doctor doesn't run a "Pill Mill" and you take the dosage he prescribes and ONLY the dosage he prescribes. You will not become a junkie. Yes, you will be physically dependant, but there is a psychological element in becoming a junkie. That's why it is Mandatory for people on pain management to have a Psychiatrist and a counselor. I have both and they say I'm not an addict.And they are right.

12- step didn't take my pain away like my doctor has. 12-step only makes you feel worthless about yourself.

In the '90's, I tried to use alcohol for pain management. It didn't work.
Since I've started getting real medical treatment for my pain, I stopped drinking uncontrollably. My doctor and I did it medically, not with a cult which is what 12-step is. I feel better about myself than I ever have.

Go peddle your cult elsewhere and stay out of my life, PLEASE.

[Fly by night]

58. Actually, Wiley, I sent you the PMs more than a week ago at your request.

But given the shape you're in, I have no doubt that you've lost track of time.

Good luck getting your shit together. Until then, putting you on "ignore" seems like the best thing for my own serenity, if not yours. Please do me the same favor.

Say "hi" to Martin and Cindy, who were kind enough to let you move your boat to their land and who now regret that decision mightily. Tell me, did they turn out to be classist, racist Republicans like every member of your family too?

Get a clue.

[Stephanie]

5. I'd recommend you delete the names from this post

Not sure why you posted this or what it means, but there is a lot of personally identifiable information that probably shouldn't be posted on a public website.

[Wiley50]

10. Stepen and Ina May Gaskin are Hippie Celebrities. The Farm Commune in Summertown is well known

So that's public info. Ina May is the most famous Midwife in the world and publishes The Birth Gazette. Stephen appears at every hippie reunion.

I did change my doctor's name. He's Dr. Luck because I was Lucky to find him.

I didn't use Martin or Cindy's last name, but they are a married couple. Martin and I used to live on The Farm and now I live in my sailboat on their farm and for some reason she's hated me from the start. And I live 100 yards away and almost never go up to their house. Martin comes up here.

She reads Higher mind books and teaches yoga classes but is 20 years younger than martin and I and thinks she is higher minded than I. Now I'm just a sick old man who may be dying.


So I don't think it matters if I relate one chapter what happened in my life when I lived on The Farm Commune.

[Stephanie]

12. I see

[shanti]

24. i remember the farm...

when i was a young wife in the 70's, i had a copy of spiritual midwifery and the farm cookbook. i was fascinated by the stories of the commune, but my husband wasn't. you probably have loads of stories...was your photo in any of the books?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

30. Maybe you need to write a book about your life on the Farm Commune nt

[Wiley50]

57. I didn't live on The Farm when it was a commune

They left San Francisco in a caravan of converted school busses and traveled all around the US and Stephen preaching his Guru Thing and his wife, Ina May preaching Midwifery and recording Stephen's sermons on audio tape. That's how he wrote all of his books.

The Caravan eventually came through my Home Town, decided to stay and pooled their money and bought the land and built the commune. That was 1970 and I was 15. I used to go down there a lot as a teen as they had a band and held rock and roll grateful dead type barn dances and joints passed around everywhere.

But they were back to the landers determined to farm a farm of over a thousand acres with horses and mules and live like the Mennonite colony nearby. Needless to say, it didn't work and they couldn't feed everyone. I wasn't into working. I was a teen ready to party. Stephen made single men and women live separately and no unmarried sex.That didn't sound like fun to me.

In 1975, I left town for the left coast and hooked up with the Rainbow Family, a group much looser and more my style. In 1985, I came home, started dating Pam and we found ourselves pregnant. So we moved down to the farm to have the baby with their famous midwives who did deliveries for only $500.A couple of years before, The Farm had collapsed of it's own debt in trying to feed so many people and become a gated community for hippies with dues to pay to the collective to live there. We ended up not being able to stay current on our dues due to a construction slump and rented aa house just over the fence. That's where the baby died. The farm ambulance crashed on the way to the family and was totaled and a couple of people hurt.

I've told most of the rest of the story.

[TwilightGardener]

8. Sounds like you are having a hard time--but your post reads like

a novel with pages missing.

[Wiley50]

11. only if you are not versed in Hippie Celebrities and Famous Communes

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[earthboundmisfit]

16. All I can say is

:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug: x a million
Nobody as sweet as you should ever have to go through what you've gone/are going through, dear friend.

[Wiley50]

17. Thanks Mish. We've been friends since 1975

Tell you a secret: I wanted you instead of Delilah, But you wanted Pip (Alpha Male) and see what that got you.

Ever hear from him?

[earthboundmisfit]

19. He died in 1996 or 7

Liver cancer.
Check your PM, have a question for ya

[Wiley50]

23. Did I ever tell you how Delilah and I got together?

Now, this was 1975, wild and woolly years, as you remember.

She picked up Jimmer and I at The Acme, a place you knew well, you were the Beer Maid, 3.2 beer, the most popular cold beverage in not just Stillwater, but in all of Oklahoma

took us home and did us both. He got up and left. I didn't.

You know, We should all be tested for Hep C, It's literally killing me as we speak. I'm stage 3 with one more attempt to survive the interferon's ferocious side effects for 6 months. I've never made it farther than six weeks and 9 days. The 9 days were when the vomiting and dry heaves set in.

[dysfunctional press]

18. exactly why i would NEVER go to a 'pain clinic'...

i let my regular dr. handle my pain meds.

"If even one is missing and I don't have a good reason, I don't get them back and they would dismiss me as a patient."
how fucking noble and compassionate of them...:eyes:

[Wiley50]

25. It's not a pain clinic. He's my primary care physician

and he is "noble and compassionate"

It's illegal for doctors to prescribe pot for anything in this state

But that doesn't mean he can't look the other way, for good reason

And after a conversation about my Hep C treatment where I presented the good reason.

He agreed to look the other way.

[dysfunctional press]

36. i'm not in a medical mj state either...

and my dr. knows i smoke pot as well, and doesn't care.
i've been taking methadone for chronic pain for over 10 years now, and before that it was oxycontin.
i also take vicoprofen to manage migraine pain...
but i've NEVER had a nurse count out my pills, or have them threaten to take them away- the one time i did get that kind of treatment was at a 'pain clinic', when i had decided to see if they any kind of different treatment/methods for pain control. they didn't- they still prescribed the same narcotics- but they treated everyone like a junkie. i didn't go back.
i've never had my dr. turn down a script i've requested, nor threaten to, nor count my meds. i usually get my monthly script written every 25-26 days, so that i have a 'buffer' of pills, in case they're needed for an extra long string of 'bad' days, painwise. also- one time i had a bottle of pills in a backpack that was stolen out of my car at a highway rest-stop- i called my dr. and was able to get a new script written the next day, without any hesitation or suspicion...i can't even imagine the kind of hoops and horrors i would have encountered at the pain clinic for such a grievous act as being a crime victim.

[omega minimo]

44. if you

have these kind of pain and drug problems, would it occur to you to not be so damned nasty online?

[dysfunctional press]

47. drug problems?

i don't have any drug problems-
my dr. gives me a script for just about anything i ask for.

i say 'just about' because although i've never actually been turned down by him when requesting any meds- i doubt that he'd give me something like dilaudid or mscontin at this point...but then- i've never asked. :shrug:

[Kip Humphrey]

20. thanks Whiley

Thanks for sharing a bit of your saga. How's your health holding up? Remember, if you get in a bind and need any help, you can always email me here. Stay well. Enjoy that boat & whatever life offers up. Kip

[Wiley50]

26. You told me that before Kip, I never got the Pay Pal n/t

[Wiley50]

21. Just got an email from Bob Koehler, a syndicated writer at Tribune Media Services

Thanking me for the pics I sent him in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7099190

Read the OP but don't take the link, it's a Windows Live Trap

Start reading and looking at pics from reply #6

I uploaded them through photobucket, they're clean.

So, I sent him this thread. You know, I may show up in one of his columns someday. just like I did in Joe Bageant's "Deerhunting With Jesus" (Top of page # 271 ) if you have a copy

[EmeraldCityGrl]

27. Hi Wiley

I don't know you but just wanted to say your an interesting writer. You should really write a book.
They say everyone has a book in them and yours would be a fascinating read.

Also, I've also lost a child. It takes a lifetime to fully incorporate the pain and sorrow into something that
is close to healing. It gets softer over time, but we are forever haunted by our demons. Just be kind to
yourself and take good care.

[Wiley50]

28. Thanks, It's crazy things like this can hurt so bad so many years later

Part of it is his cause of death was never resolved.

I've been crying all day

I still suspect her. She said she put him down for a nap and took one herself too. She said when she woke up he wasn't breathing

She had a ferocious temper.

I suspect he was crying and she couldn't get to sleep

got mad and shut him up with a pillow.

Every doctor said babies don't die of crib death at 22 months

I wrote everything out, handed it to the head state district attorney, asked for an investigation and got one by the State Bureau pf Investigation

They couldn't find enough evidence to prove anything

All it did was make everyone at The Farm hate me

[Sarah Ibarruri]

31. It seems like that has affected your entire life :(

Is there any way you could write about that and your other experiences, say, in a blog, or book form, or are you in too much pain to start on that at this moment? Seems to me you have a lot to say which would be very interesting.

[Wiley50]

32. One of my best friends, Joe Bageant, author of "Deerhunting With Jesus::

Dispatches from America's Class War" (which many DUers have read and Skinner even wrote a thread on, His comment, " Many books are sent here that I never read, but ,for some reason, I started it and couldn't put it down") a Magazine Writer/Editor for 40 years was inspired by returning after 40 years to his hometown of Winchester ,VA. Believe me, the title doesn't remotely convey what the book is about. He has published many essays online which are collected at joebageant.com they are all short, one hour read at maximum, but pick out any of them from the list and you'll be going out to buy Deerhunting, Guaranteed. I and DU are even acknowledged at the top of page 271.

Anyway, Joe's advice to me was, " Make your escape from the US first, then start writing." I have to kill this Hep C before it kills me and before I can leave. Joe Built a cabana in Hopkins, Belize for $6000 and invited me to come live there, but my sights are slightly farther south: Rio Dulce, Guatemala, the best hurricane hole in the Caribbean where over 200 sailboats spend hurricane season. It's natural features are what makes it so. That's why I named my boat "Beyond Belize"

[Sarah Ibarruri]

33. Then I'm going to hope really hard that your Hep C goes away or at least lets you do

whatever you need to do.

[Wiley50]

37. Thank you , my dear new friend

They say I have the easiest type of Hep C to cure and Guarantee that if I can stay on interferon for 6 months I'll be cured for life.

But, I've tried twice already. The first 6 weeks aren't too bad, just body aches and a few chills, kinda like a mild flu. But then it hits and hits hard. The first day you vomit everything in your system, then, after that, it's dry heaves night and day. You can't even sleep because of being afraid you'll aspirate and drown in stomach acid, cause that's all that's down there . You can't keep anything down not even liquids. Nothing the doctors can prescribe has been able to stop it. I made it 9 days with no food, little fluids and no sleep before I hit the emergency room thinking I was having a manic episode. The ER doctor had even filled out the forms to have me involuntarily committed before a girl from the Mental Health Crisis Team came in and saved me. They had given me three injections in the ass that had brought me down. I told her about the interferon,. She decided I was no risk to myself or anyone else and they let me go home and get some sleep. The next day I could keep light foods down. But I was off of the interferon. I had stopped taking the injections and pills to have the strength to go to the ER.

This time the Nurse/Practitioner who is handling the interferon and my Primary Care/Pain Management doctor have conspired to both look the other way if I try Medical Grade pot, but finding it and paying for it on SSI is gonna be hard. It's still illegal in this state.

But, before they'll put me back on interferon they have to find out why my weight is fluctuating so much. I've lost over 60 pounds in the last 6 months and they can't find out why. When I was working I was a steady 180. Since I've been mostly bedridden, except for Doctor's appts and grocery store trips I gained up to 215. Last time they weighed me I was 154. Something bad is going on. I've had cameras up my but and down my throat in the last three months. I was having trouble peeing and wore a catheter from Oct 15, the first urologist did an exploratory through the catheter and found my bladder full of stones, but missed a severe urinary infection from using a mop bucket as a toilet ( my landlords are organic farmers and compost everything.But I've designed a way to reinstall the boat toilet and use it, just waiting for the 1st so I have the money to buy the parts.) He scheduled an operation to remove the stones, I showed up at the hospital at 5:30 am like they told me to and got checked into a room, but they did a drug screen and found pot (I had been "shopping" for something I consider Medical Grade.) I have COPD and need something that works with one or two hits. I can't smoke joint after joint) and they canceled the operation and put me on the street. that was a week ago on Thursday. Next day, Friday, saw my primary care. He didn't find pot (wasn't looking for it. He knows I'm "shopping") but took a urine sample and in 5 minutes came back and said I had a severe urinary infection. Put me on CIPRO. Next day, last Saturday, after 3 doses of CIPRO, I blew the catheter right out of me along with tons of sludge and stones. I instantly felt better, much better and am peeing normally now. I saw a new Urologist Tuesday. He said leave out the catheter and set a follow up appt after I finish the course of CIPRO, 15 days from last Friday. I see my primary care on the 4th. In the meantime, I'm trying to gain weight. Eat a 8"x8" fruit cobbler for breakfast every morning (cup of flour, cup of sugar, 4 Tablespoons real Butter, half cup of Half and Half and a large can 29 ounces of either peaches, pears, or fruit cocktail) eat a big dinner of either loaded up pizza (All I can eat), Hamburger helper, home made chicken and noodle casserole (also made with Half and Half) or whatever is on sale. I don't get Food Stamps. I want nothing to do with state welfare. I'd have to tell them I pay no rent but have a $170 cell phone/ Internet bill. Living on a sailboat I have to use Verizon Wireless Broadband ISP. No phone or cable lines coming in but it works anywhere, even on open water, if I ever get this girl splashed again.

So that's it for now. Hope they can find the cause of the weight loss soon and fix it. I've got to get built back up for Interferon cause it will drop my weight like a stone.

Thanks for caring.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

38. You wouldn't happen to be diabetic ot hypoglycemic, would you?

If they've checked so many areas in you, I can't imagine why you've lost weight. How's your appetite? Irregular?

[Wiley50]

39. Not really but I'm forcing myself now.

I stay constipated due to all of thee morphine I take. My bowels move only once or twice a week.

I'm on a 50mcg Duragesic Fentanyl pain patch changed every three days, 60 mg immediate release morphine 4 times a day and 10 mg valium 3 times a day. I sleep well.

Though I'm not really supposed to, I drink a beer every evening, open a second can and half of it is still in the can the next morning. I waste a lot of beer that way, but it also helps with gaining weight.

You should read my last post again. I was doing a lot of editing while you were reading.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

45. You do seem to eat a lot these days.

I wonder if the meds don't affect your weight in some way. I've seen meds affect people in some very odd ways.

I hope your physical condition improves markedly so you can get on with the business of writing about your experiences.

[Kali]

34. the Farm

my first midwife (a guy, oddly enough) had me read the birth book before I had my first kid

you are haunted, but you know the sad truth

I am sorry, no good at writing what I want to convey - I hope you find peace and better health.

[EFerrari]

35. . . .

:hug:

[Wiley50]

40. You Too, Beth n/t

[FedUpWithIt All]

41. I am sorry for your grief and pain.

I cannot imagine such a loss. I am heartbroken for you.

I don't know if it would help to know that SIDS, although more rare, can affect children into their second year.

[Wiley50]

42. Thanks, but It doesn't really help

I know what I saw. She treated him like she was treated as a baby. Talking rough, even screaming at him, hitting him now and then, punishing a child too young to understand punishment. And the pillow incident haunts me.

I fought with her constantly about it. Even that wasn't good for him. She couldn't change, too stubborn to change.To her, babies that age had to be treated sterbly caude they couldn't understand words.

Children can learn if treated gently, with love. They want to please you if only you patiently teach them.

They're telepathic too. to him he had a mean mommy abd a sweet daddy. He knew the difference. The last time I saw him alive I was leaving for work Kissing him through the bars of his crib. His jail cell.

[Stephanie]

43. Oh Wiley

It's not your fault. It's not your fault. You did the best you could. You did the best you knew how at the time.

[Name removed]

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[Greyhound]

46. Love Wiley. n/t

:hug:

[Morning Dew]

48. I'm so sorry for your loss and your pain.

:hug:

[Name removed]

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