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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:10 AM Original message |
Poll question: Why has the anti-war movement failed? |
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TwilightGardener (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:12 AM Response to Original message |
1. Other--seen as fringe. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:15 AM Response to Reply #1 |
4. I like how per Establishment POV pro-war types are perceived as rational & level-headed by contrast |
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rucky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:15 AM Response to Original message |
2. Media portrayal of protesters, no pictures from battleground & no draft |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:17 AM Response to Reply #2 |
5. "pictures from battleground" would reveal endless civilians being slaughtered, herded, suffering |
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fascisthunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:15 AM Response to Original message |
3. because power has been removed from the people |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:19 AM Response to Original message |
6. It didn't fail. |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:27 AM Response to Reply #6 |
8. The Axis of Evil was a mistake. When we put Irag and Iran in that axis, then |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:40 AM Response to Reply #8 |
14. And you think that was a mistake, how? |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:49 AM Response to Reply #14 |
16. Iranian moderates were gaining influence. |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:51 AM Response to Reply #16 |
17. I mean in relation to the Bush Administration's goals.... |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:40 PM Response to Reply #17 |
30. Their goals were unrealistic. They had little knowledge of the culture, and |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:53 PM Response to Reply #30 |
34. Out of curiosity, what's your take on the PNAC, since many of *'s 1st term people were members? |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:20 PM Response to Reply #34 |
52. Dogma unpolluted by reality. |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:29 PM Response to Reply #52 |
59. They realistically decided that they didn't CARE about consequences. |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 03:02 PM Response to Reply #59 |
61. The reality was death, destruction, and deficits. As long as the corporations |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 01:59 PM Response to Reply #30 |
46. Um...did you read any of the essays at my link? |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:24 PM Response to Reply #46 |
53. The military campaign was very good considering their numbers. Not securing |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:26 PM Response to Reply #53 |
56. Not having the public behind them...in evidence by protest and VOTING.... |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 03:05 PM Response to Reply #56 |
62. We were not in a place to really slow down anything until Jan 2007. |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 06:55 PM Response to Reply #62 |
65. Cumulative effect.... |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 11:37 AM Response to Reply #65 |
84. But we forgot Obama's vote to continue funding the war. That was his |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 10:19 PM Response to Reply #84 |
90. We understood that once our people were in there, we had to support them... |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 11:23 PM Response to Reply #90 |
93. No more circular firing squads. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:52 PM Response to Reply #17 |
33. PNAC, and the NEED to install Buscho at any cost was certainly no "mistake." |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:33 AM Response to Reply #6 |
11. Indeed |
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murdoch (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 10:25 PM Response to Reply #11 |
100. Yes, it was partially successful |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:20 AM Response to Original message |
7. Other: Most people are not pacifists. |
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timeforpeace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:29 AM Response to Original message |
9. As we see from support for Afghan war here, it was more anti-Bush.The level of hypocrisy is stunning |
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Smarmie Doofus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:32 AM Response to Original message |
10. I voted "no draft" but I would add "media" if allowed. |
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Wiley50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:38 AM Response to Original message |
12. No Draft |
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Cid_B (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 09:11 AM Response to Reply #12 |
78. Umpteenth time I've seen this... |
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havocmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:39 AM Response to Original message |
13. No draft, no real, steady news from the war zones, |
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Peace Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:41 AM Response to Original message |
15. The anti-war movement didn't fail. DEMOCRACY failed, and the cause was Diebold & brethren. nt |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:56 AM Response to Reply #15 |
18. Yes, although WAY too many smugly resisted the fact of * being installed & "re-elected" |
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SammyWinstonJack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:06 PM Response to Reply #18 |
21. +1 nt |
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Wiley50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:14 PM Response to Reply #15 |
23. Peace Patriot, You're right again, as usual. But it's the media too. |
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Peace Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 01:54 PM Response to Reply #23 |
44. Hey, Wiley50! Sorry if I missed your emails. I usually do reply if someone writes to me. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 11:57 AM Response to Original message |
19. Other - Once he took office, President Obama was informed of the real reasons we are at war |
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Wiley50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:29 PM Response to Reply #19 |
26. Afghanistan is for a pipeline across it, to steal oil that once went to Russia |
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noamnety (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:05 PM Response to Original message |
20. Government is in bed with corporations |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:12 PM Response to Original message |
22. Those promoting war here on DU |
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TwilightGardener (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:19 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. I haven't seen any real "promotion" of war on DU. At most, an acceptance |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:42 PM Response to Reply #24 |
31. I can tell the difference |
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TwilightGardener (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:48 PM Response to Reply #31 |
32. If you want real war promotion, go to Freeperville and hear the bullshit |
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spoony (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:07 PM Response to Reply #32 |
66. Oh yes it does. |
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tekisui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:17 PM Response to Reply #24 |
51. Well, dissent is met with opposition. |
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TwilightGardener (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:28 PM Response to Reply #51 |
58. Defense of Obama's decision is not promotion of war for the sake of war. |
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cowcommander (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:21 PM Response to Original message |
25. Because Saddam was no saint |
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devilgrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:34 PM Response to Reply #25 |
29. Yeah, an evil fucker that Ronald Reagan armed to the teeth throughout the 80's |
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cowcommander (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:57 PM Response to Reply #29 |
37. Have you ever seen the movie "Shooter"? |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 01:13 PM Response to Reply #29 |
38. The bulk of Saddam's arms & equipment was Soviet. |
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Thothmes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:17 PM Response to Reply #29 |
69. How many of the hundreds of thousands of AK 47s |
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devilgrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 02:33 AM Response to Reply #69 |
72. The Reagan Administration supported Saddam Hussein |
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Thothmes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 05:11 AM Response to Reply #72 |
73. No doubt of that |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:56 PM Response to Reply #25 |
35. Ever read the 'goals' outlined by PNAC's blueprint, "Rebuilding America's Defenses?" |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:30 PM Response to Original message |
27. Probably could have added another option: The internet. |
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aikoaiko (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:33 PM Response to Original message |
28. It was more anti-Bush then anti-war. |
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ismnotwasm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 12:57 PM Response to Original message |
36. Too many people don't care |
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Iggo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 01:16 PM Response to Original message |
39. Because it's fought online instead of in the streets? |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 01:26 PM Response to Reply #39 |
41. +1. Would have been a good option to have listed. |
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certainot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 07:38 PM Original message |
while those 1000 radio stations do all the heavy lifting |
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DailyGrind51 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 01:24 PM Response to Original message |
40. Back in the '60s, my main fear was getting drafted and sent to Vietnam. |
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pitohui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 01:30 PM Response to Original message |
42. no draft -- it doesn't affect "regular" people, or isn't seen to affect them |
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Obamanaut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 01:32 PM Response to Original message |
43. With a draft and no deferments for cysts or anything else, more of |
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Liberation Angel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 01:54 PM Response to Original message |
45. I disagree with the premise of question: Obama's election was a success! |
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Nikki Stone1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:01 PM Response to Original message |
47. The anti war movement isn't backed by corporate money and deadly weapons--but |
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anonymous171 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:01 PM Response to Original message |
48. Lack of Draft and focus. nt |
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proteus_lives (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:11 PM Response to Original message |
49. No draft. |
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Lagomorph (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:16 PM Response to Original message |
50. People resisted Bush... |
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tekisui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:24 PM Response to Original message |
54. The anti-war movement was used to get Dems elected. |
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notesdev (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:25 PM Response to Original message |
55. Incoherence |
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Lagomorph (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 03:09 PM Response to Reply #55 |
64. Well said... |
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varelse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:27 PM Response to Original message |
57. Other - war is a hugely profitable enterprise |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 02:30 PM Response to Original message |
60. There never was an anti-war movement. |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 10:13 PM Response to Reply #60 |
71. interesting! |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 03:08 PM Response to Original message |
63. When has an anti-war movement been successful in this country? |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 09:07 AM Response to Reply #63 |
77. A definition of insanity. |
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G_j (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 09:54 AM Response to Reply #77 |
81. I guess MLK Jr. was insane too |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:11 PM Response to Original message |
67. No draft |
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EmeraldCityGrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:17 PM Response to Original message |
68. Economic Draft. |
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Sen. Walter Sobchak (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-27-09 07:56 PM Response to Original message |
70. because the wars can't be ended without a perceived victory |
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yodoobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 05:34 AM Response to Original message |
74. The draft is why we didn't get mixed up in vietnam or Korea |
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Lilith Velkor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 10:40 PM Response to Reply #74 |
102. Butbutbut we HAVE to force kids to fight wars to teach 'em that forcing kids to fight wars is wrong! |
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freddie mertz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 07:58 AM Response to Original message |
75. Lack of Draft, co-opted by Obama and the Dems |
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spanone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 08:23 AM Response to Original message |
76. stupid humans have accepted war as a way of life. |
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Zynx (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 09:27 AM Response to Original message |
79. This is certainly not the largest factor, but the faces of the "movement" are not credible. |
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WonderGrunion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 09:51 AM Response to Original message |
80. Other, the peace movement assumed that Anti-Iraq = Anti-War |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 10:11 AM Response to Reply #80 |
83. Deleted sub-thread |
Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 06:40 PM Response to Reply #80 |
86. Exactly! |
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Sebastian Doyle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 10:00 AM Response to Original message |
82. The corporate whore media is deliberately ignoring it. |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 06:25 PM Response to Original message |
85. I agree with Cindy and believe it's because it was more anti-Bush then anti-war |
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certainot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 07:28 PM Response to Original message |
87. Other: protests need to be where the wars are sold |
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bridgit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 07:38 PM Response to Original message |
88. Movement hijacked by those promoting other issues |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 07:40 PM Response to Original message |
89. I was in the anti-Vietnam war movement both pre and post draft. Post draft we got many fewer people |
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isurvivedit (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 10:45 PM Response to Original message |
91. Because they were pro Obama... |
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tnlefty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-28-09 11:12 PM Response to Original message |
92. I didn't read the thread regarding Ms. Shehann, so I can |
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MSchreader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 12:31 AM Response to Original message |
94. It's some of the above, plus others |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 09:37 PM Response to Reply #94 |
98. A very good read! |
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cynatnite (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 12:36 AM Response to Original message |
95. Other: The general public doesn't rank it as that important. n/t |
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alcibiades_mystery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 12:37 AM Response to Original message |
96. It doesn't take responsibility for its own poor rhetorical strategies |
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Kaleva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 09:38 PM Response to Reply #96 |
99. +1 |
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Blue_Tires (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 12:49 AM Response to Original message |
97. i'm not sure i'd use the word 'fail', but... |
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conturnedpro09 (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 10:29 PM Response to Original message |
101. Other: 9/11 |
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DireStrike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-29-09 10:46 PM Response to Original message |
103. No draft is the big one, but there are others. |
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