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How Afghanistan looks from the invading army's POV

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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 04:09 AM
Original message
How Afghanistan looks from the invading army's POV
Edited on Fri Nov-27-09 04:34 AM by ConsAreLiars
This gallery is a lotta bytes to load, but worth it - if you are on a slow connection, start it up and do other things for a while until it is loaded up: http://www.stumbleupon.com/s/#2wKJHw/blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2009/10/30/photographer-collection-david-guttenfelder-in-afghanistan//

If you choose to look, remember that before the CIA, Saudis and ISI decided to import and arm religious crazies like you-know-who to destabilize the secular leftist government there, the words appropriately used to describe Afghanistan would actually include words like moderate, tolerant, intact, peaceful, friendly when compared to those the US was then allied with and supported.

(edit to add an alert about the large size of the gallery)
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. kick n/t
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. lol Soviet apologists. nt
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. lol CIA apologists, nt.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. So, let me get this straight: Soviet imperialism = Good but American Imperialism = Bad
:crazy: I tend to believe that all imperialism is bad. But maybe that's just me.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. How about both are bad
and part of US imperialism is CIA campaigns to destabilize any government that acts too friendly with our enemies of the time.

And part of Soviet imperialism is moving into those friendly countries to counteract CIA destabilization activities?

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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. By definition, a communist nation can not be an empire.
Even an expansionist one. Try cracking a book once in a while.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-28-09 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. By definition, a communist "state" cannot exist either
The Soviet government was a sham, like our own. It existed to enrich a certain elite sector of the population (much like our own government.)
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-28-09 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Meanwhile, back in reality...
If the Soviet Union had been truly textbook communistic, then you would have a point. However, as the Politburo quickly found out that it was living in the real world, they were unable to make communism into a workable system. It was a traditional totalitarian dictatorship with a few socialistic features--none of which kept them from creating puppet states, cracking down on the human rights of the people they were supposedly liberating, and behaving in every regard like an empire.

Meanwhile, as long as we're recommending books to crack, may I suggest you use a history book instead of a dictionary as the basis for your sweeping philosophical pronouncements?
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-28-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Red scare? Even in this day and age?
Thanks for proving my point, "behaving in every regard like an empire..." but not an empire. The spoils of the USSR's expansionist policy were not going back to Moscow to an elite citizen class.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-28-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Where were they going?
Citations, please.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-28-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Yeah, and America was fighting for freedom and democracy in Vietnam
:rofl:
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. how so?
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-28-09 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. LOL, sometimes a dumb insult (I guess that's what you intended) is all one can offer.
Edited on Sat Nov-28-09 02:53 AM by ConsAreLiars
It is a matter of fact that thwe CIA began supporting religious fundamentalists in order to destabilize the leftist government well before it called for help from the Soviet Army. The manipulation of fundie crazies in the US today to promote KKKorporate objectives is not a new invention.

It is also a fact that a Western woman could travel across the country wearing jeans and a bandanna as a scarf and be treated as a guest, never insulted or threatened even during the time when the country was nominally a kingdom. Thus the "moderate" and such descriptions in the original post.

(Edit to add a slight clarification plus: Please take a look at the photos if you have not yet done so. They tell many truths.)
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-28-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Soviets had been aiding them (the leftists) long before America started funding the extremists
Edited on Sat Nov-28-09 01:06 PM by anonymous171
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Here's a little bit of the hidden history of the use of Fundie Crazies of the Islamic
subset as allies in the war against independence movements and progressive (anti-imperialist/anti-capitalist) social movements. When I was there (1970-71) it was clear that Afghanistan was being contested. US built half of the one paved road in the country; USSR built the other half better. A few years later the progressive side (women's liberation and education and such) gradually became stronger. Eventually the leftists controlled the whole of the national government, and, as is often true, tried using the military to push their agenda and thus increased resistance.

A complex history (see the Wiki for more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan ), but to imagine that the US/CIA had suddenly lost all interest or involvement in Afghanistan once the progressives began gaining strength, well, you are informed and smart enough to know that is quite improbable. Instead, as agents of corporate imperial expansionism, they would use their long-established practice of supporting and strengthening the Crazies who were in opposition to progress and change. (See the parallel to the US today?)



The following history is all from: http://links.org.au/node/88

With few exceptions (most notably the Shiites in Iran), organising, arming, training and funding Islamist groups as a reactionary weapon against the rising tide of mass upsurge and social revolution became a cornerstone of us foreign policy. This was especially so after the defeat of the British and French imperialists in the Suez Canal dispute of 1956. The plethora of fundamentalist offshoots from the main Islamist organisations, in particular, were the perfect tool for the low-intensity combat the US's Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) uses.

The first and most consistently pro-imperialist Islamic state was established by the Wahhabi sect in Saudi Arabia, with the backing of the British, amid the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after World War I. Wahhabi cleric Abdel Aziz Ibn Saud unified warring tribes, crowned himself king in the 1920s and imposed the Wahhabi interpretation of Islamic law, which includes stoning women adulterers, amputating limbs of thieves and public beheadings for other crimes, laws which remain in place today.

In the late 1950s and early 1960s, with the support of the CIA, Saudi Arabia organised an "Islamic front" to build a more effective capitalist political alternative to pan-Arab nationalism and socialism. This network included the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Hamas in Syria, Sarekat-e-Islam in Indonesia, the Front for Islamic Salvation (FIS) in Algeria and Jama'at Islami in Pakistan.

Finding it difficult to build a mass base as wave after wave of left-wing currents swept across their countries, many of the Islamist groups, despite their anti-imperialist rhetoric, fell into the lap of imperialism for their survival. This brought them into alliance with most of the regimes in the region, which were heavily dependent on help from the US to crush the mass revolts they faced. The Islamic fundamentalists' vigilante groups became a major tool of reaction and counter-revolution for the right-wing states in connivance with imperialism.

In Indonesia, Sarekat-e-Islam provided many of the foot soldiers in the coup against the left nationalist President Sukarno, wiping out the Communist Party and murdering as many as two million leftists.

In Egypt and Syria, Islamist organisations like Akhwan-ul-Muslimeen were used to destabilise left-wing regimes. Egyptian President Anwar Sadat protected the radical Islamists in the 1970s to neutralise the left-leaning Nasserites and the Communists, and later to recruit to the anti-Soviet campaign in Afghanistan.

Jordan's King Hussein, backed by the US, often relied on Islamists' support in combating left opponents, and Yemen's President Abdallah Saleh was supported by Islamists in clashes with Marxists in South Yemen.

In Bangladesh (then East Bengal), during the 1971 independence war, the Jama'at-e-Islam, Al-Shams and Al-Badar groups played a similar role in league with the Pakistani army, murdering hundreds of thousands of leftists leading the mass upsurge there.

In Pakistan, during the dictatorship of General Zia-ul-Haq, Jama'at-e-Islami was the main tool of imperialism and the Pakistani state to curb anti-dictatorship leftists.

The process reached its peak during the 1980s, when thousands of Islamists were trained and sent to Afghanistan to try to overthrow the Soviet-backed People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) government, which took power after the 1978 revolution there. Afghanistan is estimated to be the largest covert CIA operation involving Islamic fundamentalists (in 1987, US military assistance to the mujaheddin reached $700 million—more than Pakistan received—much of it sent via Saudi Arabia to keep the extent of US support hidden).7
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. The scenery's different but it still looks like Vietnam. K&R
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. that was my first thought, too....
eom
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Yes it does. in many ways.
Except that we didn't go into Vietnam to chase a terrorist that we had empowered to fight the Soviet Union after refusing to have that terrorist turned over to us for trial.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. awesome images-- rec'd!
Nice!
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I thought they revealed a lot more than the usual pix and video clips.
Thanks.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. like calling extreme corporate fanatics pragmatic and moderate
Edited on Fri Nov-27-09 02:48 PM by fascisthunter
those images are amazing
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. Great pictures and thanks for posting. nt
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. big K&R!
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. kick for the night shift (nt)
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-27-09 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. CIA has been using fundy Islam since the 50s
When they started seeing the Mid-East going socialist, they also wanted to break up pan-Arabism, which they saw as a threat to US interests.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-29-09 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
27. kick nt
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