Posting on a message board is never, ever "brave"

[Prism]

This has been cropping up a lot lately. Someone says something typically uncontroversial but highly partisan, and is then applauded "Oh, you are so brave for saying this."

Posting anonymously on the internet is not an act of courage. What people on the internet think of you actually has little to no direct impact on your actual life. The other day, I actually saw someone post "I screen-shotted your post and passed it along in PMs, so we all know what you said!" As if that meant the OP was in really serious trouble. Oh no, people online will think things.

Sigh.

This all kind of goes without saying, but now I'm seeing these "brave" statements entering into posts about Afghanistan. Ok, guys, honestly, actually fighting a war in Afghanistan is brave. Our soldiers are brave. Their families are brave. The Afghani people who endure and survive the coming onslaught are brave.

Having a two-bit internet opinion, especially one agitating for an escalation you will not be personally fighting, is not brave under any permutation of the word. It is not courageous to cheer for more soldiers to enter a theater where countless more innocents will die.

It's actually quite the opposite. In English, words have meanings. Brave is not cheer-leading a war on a message board. Ever.

[tblue]

1. K&R!

[Duke Newcombe]

2. I think some Tweeters in Iran might disagree with your determination. n/t

[omega minimo]

3. You are noticing the pettiness and meanness in the community and extrapolating to war ....

[uppityperson]

4. Is it brave to argue against a war on a message board?

I VERY much agree with you "It is not courageous to cheer for more soldiers to enter a theater where countless more innocents will die."

[Prism]

5. Not particularly

I don't think much involving internet anonymity is brave, excepting instances like the one cited above about Iranian bloggers during the aftermath of their elections. In those cases, people are risking life and limb to share information.

However, the incongruity of applauding bravery for posts that agitate for increased warfare in an already decimated region struck me as particularly absurd. The only risk involved is anonymous praise or scorn. I don't think the pixels sent forth onto the electronic battlefield deserve that kind of praise when those same pixels are employed in the defense of spilling quite real blood.

Many things are brave. Justifying the deaths of others from the comfort of your own home surely isn't one of them.

[Fla_Democrat]

61. Depends on the board.

:smoke:

[noamnety]

6. Agreed

with exceptions as already noted in this thread for people who really are putting themselves at risk by posting online.

I was thinking the other day after reading some posts here how DU and the party at large has become a collection of chicken hawks, which I never thought I'd see here. Not everyone, we have a fair sized number of veterans and pacifists here. But we have added a huge number of chicken hawks as well.

I'm a veteran, and I get pissed off at people who think going to war, staying at war, escalating war is all good now that Obama's in office - but not good enough that they'd risk their own comfortable life to go fight that war. It's important for other people to die for.

I don't care if the person is a democrat or republican, my attitude remains: If you support the escalation, if you support anything except total withdrawal now, go fucking enlist.

[Prism]

7. It seems the meta fight has become more important than the physical war

I think what's really bothering me is that I haven't been reading very many real justifications for an escalation. While I oppose it rather strongly, there are some arguments rattling around the back of my mind like the stability of Pakistan given their nuclear arsenal. I'd be willing to consider well thought-out arguments about those aspects.

However, it seems the arguments are devolving into questions on whether you support the President or not, what your motives are for opposing him, that this is all a question of political loyalty and not whether the sacrifice in lives is balanced by the kinds of accomplishments that may be reasonably had in any troop surge.

I think political loyalty is about the dead last consideration that should be entering calculations of such a deadly serious military issue, and yet those aspects and arguments seem to be the highest priority in the back and forths. It strikes me as a little perverse.

"I will not throw the President under the bus!" is not a policy argument when you're advocating further deaths of soldiers and innocents. It's a purely political statement that cannot possibly hold the full weight of consequence that further war necessitates. But that's what we're getting here, with declarations of bravery for making these political statements.

It all seems a bit perverse given we're discussing war and all the horrors that attend it.

[Better Today]

8. Never say never. Some of the boards' member are quite straight

forward about who they are, including putting their real name as a handle. On this site Nance Greggs and a Senator (can't remember his name) and Max Keiser.

When they speak an opinion, it is pretty brave, particularly when it is against the grain.

Otherwise I guess you're mostly correct. Just the whole absolutism of "never" is rubbing me the wrong way. . . but you're brave to post it. /friendly snark

[noamnety]

9. To some degree that's true

I don't use my real name because I do see it has the potential to jeopardize my career.

However, that still doesn't rise to the level of bravery that I interpreted the OP's post to be about - immediate life and death issues of war, combat, and civilian deaths. I read the OP as being about the audacity of believing oneself (or someone else) to be brave when it comes to the war in Afghanistan because you (or they) made a post on a forum proclaiming support for sending other people to fight that war.

[rucky]

17. Well said, Mr. Today!

[QC]

10. K&R!

:kick:

[TwilightGardener]

11. Second strawman assertion of the day that there are "war agitators" on this forum.

They must all be invisible to me.

[Bluebear]

22. Yes, they must be, as I have seen plenty & I mean plenty of people encouraging escalation.

Primarily because they think that is what Obama is going to do, and if he does it it's hunky dory with them.

[TwilightGardener]

24. Sorry, supporting an increase in troops does not necessarily mean

that someone is a "war agitator". The reasons behind the support are what matter. I don't want Obama to send more troops, but I also don't want our forces being needlessly killed for lack of reinforcements, and I don't want civilians to die because there isn't adequate intelligence on the ground. If the troops being sent can help with security, and help complete the mission there sooner, then it's an understandable decision. If the increase in troops is to simply expand the war into an unfocused broader effort beyond destroying AQ, then I oppose it.

[Kaleva]

12. Protesting against the escalation on a message board isn't brave either.

[noamnety]

16. That's true.

I haven't seen people make the claim that it's especially courageous to make an antiwar post on DU. I think the OP posted this because of people patting each other on the back for their "courageous" posts supporting wars from the comfort of their armchairs.

[Kaleva]

18. Well,I wouldn't call it courage either way...

but if one is a minority in any political forum, they need to have thick skin. Maybe people ought to congragulate each other on the thickness of their skin and ability to shrug off insults.

[freddie mertz]

46. Not courageous, but correct on policy.nt.

[berni_mccoy]

13. What's bugging you?

Is there a particular post that brought on this rant?

[Prism]

47. It's against the rules to call out specifically

But in various threads about escalation, you can see scattered declarations of courage or bravery for typing an internet opinion.

[apnu]

14. The Greater Internet F-wad Theory explains it all to you.

This applies to the war cheerleaders and the PUMAs, here and pretty much everybody else on the Internet.

Bitching is the first thing to do on the Internet (after downloading p0rn, that is)

[MrMickeysMom]

19. Damn, that's a great theory!

In fact, I'm copying your Fuckwad Theory Board into my Photobucket account for future laughs!

I'll give you credit, naturally... :-P

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. K&R

:thumbsup:

[Nikki Stone1]

20. Agreed. But there's a lot that's cowardly about a message board.

That's all I'm sayin.

[WilliamPitt]

21. It's a little more brave when you use your real name.

Anonymity sucks.

[Robb]

27. Yeah, if that's your REAL name.

I'm talkin' to YOU, Eugene Dinkwatre!!11!1elevens

[WilliamPitt]

28. My name is Aloysus McDingbattery

Yar.

:P

[Major Hogwash]

54. The McDingbattery's have always been a contentious lot.

Sailing from the port of McCrappen, located on the western shore in the barren area in North Ireland, the family of McDingbattery first arrived here in America, as many other poor immigrants did at the time, at the turn of the last century.
They brought their many hopes and dreams of making a new life in the new world with them, along with their centuries of experience working as craftsman using their hands to fashion furniture out of wood using only tools of iron and their vivid imagination.
But, the McDingbattery's elder patriarch also brought with him a chip on his shoulder.

So, upon arriving in the new land while he was still yet loaded full of cheap whiskey, or so the story goes, it wasn't long before Rueben McDingbattery, the leader of the McDingbattery clan, wound up in an argument with the local constable about his odd accent and the tone of his voice.
However, not being the jovial sort when he had imbibed, Rueben kicked the constable's ass fairly handily in a short span of time.
The founding fathers of the township of Ayreso were quite impressed with Rueben's ass-kicking skills, so much so they immediately appointed Rueben to be their new constable.
The idea being that anyone who would argue over the correct pronunciation of Skaneateles for 4 hours just before dinnertime couldn't be all that bad.
Besides, ol' Rueben was one hell of a fighter.
Not being employed yet, as he had just gotten off the boat, Rueben took the job.

Yet, after a few years of keeping the peace in Ayreso, Rueben became restless and wondered if there weren't other areas in the new country that he would be happier living in.
He had begun to miss the problems of the arguing crowds and putting down the occasional riot.
So he moved north a few miles, just across the river, to the town of Ayrenot.
To his surprise, Rueben found the people that lived there to possess a rather argumentative nature.
They seemed to live in a constant state of agitation.
And soon, Rueben felt right at home.
Rueben fell in love with the argumentative people of the area immediately, and after a short time he settled in to enjoy the longwinded debates as a spectator, cheering from the sidelines.
And later he even joined in the most contentious argumentations, ones that went on for days, the kind that had become the town's crowning achievement.

Rueben lived a rather long life, arguing with anyone he could find until the day he died.
He passed away in 1876 at the ripe old age of 82.

The epitaph on ol' Rueben's tombstone reads:

Here lies one argumentative sonovabitch
Who never lost a single fight
Or so the townsmen say
He lived in both Ayreso and Ayrenot
Yet all is quiet during the night
Now that Rueben's passed away

[Warren DeMontague]

32. Hey!

Are you suggesting this isn't my real name?

[Prism]

48. This is a fair point

I would go further and say that it does take some courage to post an unpopular opinion when your livelihood is partially or wholly dependent on income earned from the popularity of your internet punditry.

[Forkboy]

64. You wouldn't say that if I was in the mood to post your address and phone number.

Last time someone on DU said we should use our real names I did just that. Suddenly that anonymity doesn't suck so much.

[WilliamPitt]

65. That's a risk you take when you do what I do

For someone who just posts on a forum, your point is well taken.

[Forkboy]

66. You should use a pen name just to be safe.

NotWillPitt should throw everyone off the trail. :)

[WilliamPitt]

67. PillWitt

Nyah nyah, you can't see me.

;)

[Forkboy]

68. Perfect!

:rofl:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

69. Agree and disagree, respectively.

Posting on an internet discussion forum using your real name is very slightly risky.
For precisely that reason, the ability to do so anonymously is a very good thing indeed.

I do not want the willingness to risk some idiot with too much time on their hands taking something to heart and persecuting one in real life to be a hurdle to posting on the internet.

[ismnotwasm]

23. lol

Well for some people, I believe it's probably quite brave. Maybe, all the bravery they are really capable of. I've noticed in real life, where I really live, folks are a lot more circumspect and far more easily intimidated by strong opinion. To express oneself effectively in general society, one has to have enough emotional intelligence to be heard when it matters. Takes practice, at least for me it does. There's a difference between being brave and being an uninformed asshole- sometimes a thin line many of us cross over now and again. The trick is to be aware which is which.

[AngryAmish]

25. It takes a lot of courage to post this here

[Odin2005]

26. The same can be said for the armchair wannabe revolutionaries.

[QC]

29. And for those who think that calling people "Trots" is the very pinnacle of wit and insight. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

31. It takes courage AND stamina to argue dialectical materialism on ramen & vegan sausage.

Plus, sometimes the roommate is having sex in the dorm room, so posts have to be typed with a flashlight while hiding under the Che comforter.

[Odin2005]

33. LOL!

[arcadian]

60. Revolutions are started by pamphleteers.

Just saying. Crack a book from time to time, it will help you.

[crazyjoe]

30. you are very brave to say this......

[treestar]

34. They are just referring to an unpopular opinion

"Brave" is a general term not limited to only the most extreme circumstances.

People advocate these positions offline, too. It would have been "brave" to oppose the Afghan war in Oct. 2001, especially in face to face encounters.

[ThatsMyBarack]

35. Well put, Prism!

:applause:

[Starry Messenger]

36. I guess some DUers are a new branch of the Chairborne Rangers.

[LooseWilly]

42. There is not, nor will there ever be, a force more brave & determined than the Chairborne Rangers...

:hurts:

[Firstzar]

37. I've discovered a terrific new word for chickenhawks

"Laptop bombardiers."

[onager]

41. I like "101st Chairborne Brigage"

n/t

[arcadian]

62. On the other hand...

Air Force Cyber Command is very real. So is the NSA.

[CJCRANE]

38. It may not be brave to post on a message board

but I remember a time when it took a certain amount of foolhardiness to post on DU. IIRC it was some time in 2005, a lot of DUers were genuinely spooked by the NSAgate revelations and Bushco's domestic enemies list.

[valerief]

39. That's how I feel about pols and speeches. Actions speak louder than words. nt

[defendandprotect]

40. k i c k

[onager]

43. Here's a very brave poster...

Abdul Kareem Nabeel Suleiman Amer is an Egyptian blogger and former law student.

He was arrested by Egyptian authorities for posts on his blog that were considered to be anti-religious and insulting to Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.

On February 22, 2007, in his native city Alexandria, Amer was sentenced to three years of imprisonment for insulting Islam and inciting sedition and one year for insulting the Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kareem_Amer

I spent the last few years working/living in Egypt. In Alexandria, Mr. Amer's hometown and the site of his trial. It was a huge story there, even considering that the Egyptian media is firmly under the thumb of the Egyptian government.

The Wikipedia article doesn't mention one thing that happened during the trial (at least I didn't see it) - Mr. Amer's own father asked that he be given the death penalty for his posts about Islam.

[Prism]

49. It makes us seem ridiculous

Many of us sit in our homes, jobs, or schools and punch out little cyber opinions almost without thinking, with no real consequences for anything we might say.

Then you see people like that, who live in places in the world where speaking out risks their very lives.

In that light, our mutual internet back-slapping seems so very small in comparison.

[BoneDaddy]

44. This is and will always be a coward's venue

I would have no problem speaking my mind to anyone in their face, but that again is only bravado and you will have to take me at my word.

That said, this venue allows people to be cowards, hiding behind their screen never to ever have the gumption to do something heroic. That is why I think message boards, aside from their information value, are a joke.

yet I still come back....damn.

[freddie mertz]

45. I suppose on one level this is obvious, but K & R

For reminding of us of this truth, and for pointing out the sniveling cowardice of the internet war-mongers.

They make me sick.

[JNelson6563]

50. I see it elsewhere too.

Your first sentence did not reveal your real subject of the post--taking issue with those who agree with pursuing the war in Afghanistan. I see it applied to all schools of thought here. Many think themselves courageous by posting on a wide variety of topics--on either side of it. If the view being shared is very unpopular here they are brave on an epic scale, at least according to some.

I guess it depends on how much the poster values their participation on the anonymous message board. It is very evident that to some posters it matters very much.

Julie

[Prism]

52. It is endemic to message board posting

But the absurdity of comparing opinions to a bloody war was great enough to prompt the OP. There's something especially egregious about it.

[kwassa]

51. You're so brave for saying this.

:rofl:

[Generic Brad]

63. Prism is very brave for saying this, if that is his real name

:rofl:

[tom_paine]

53. K & R

[RedCloud]

55. The all mighty Internet is not so all mighty?

Go to forums of newspapers where youngsters are ready to mix it up. You will not convince hardly any of them, but the lurkers, perhaps.

[ananda]

56. Its fucking FUN though!

;-))

[Kablooie]

57. I agree. I've said many embarrassingly stupid things here that I would never say in real life.

[QC]

58. KICK!

[arcadian]

59. /b/

this post


:rofl: