Never Be Good Enough: Obama

[BeFree]

Face it, Obama will never please everyone.
He'll not end poverty. He won't disassemble the military.

He may get some reform of health care, but he'll never please everyone.

In fact, there are many people in our country that hate Obama.
Well, these are our fellow countrymen. And he'll never please them.

He flat out pisses them off to no end.
And, it seems, he's also pissed off a lot of people who call themselves his base.

He is in trouble, if you believe that he must please everyone.
Bad news if you think he was gonna totally change the system in a few years.

So this is reality. And it is political reality:
Some people are always gonna be pissed off, no matter what Obama does.

Join the club.

Me? I'm pretty comfortable with having Obama as president, but, yeah, he's pissed me off, too.

The problem we have is this: the system we have.
Change the system. Changing people at the top is just rearranging chairs.

So what is it about the system that needs changing, and how do we go about making those changes?

[ZombieHorde]

1. "Changing people at the top is just rearranging chairs."

Do you really believe this?

[BeFree]

5. Of course I do believe that

The system is what allowed Obama to be where he is.

He played the system to get where he is, and the system is why he is where he is.

Basically, the system, for the most part, is comfortable with Obama.
So it allowed him the presidency.

The question is, or should be, what part(s) of the system need be changed?

[ZombieHorde]

17. I don't wish to misinterpret your viewpoint. Are you saying you believe

the person in the position of POTUS does not matter? Palin would be pretty much the same as Obama?

[BeFree]

18. Relatively

It doesn't matter whom the system allows to be president.
There is only so much one can do within the confines of the parameters of the system, or establishment.

Of course the show is much different with Obama, versus Palin.
Obama is continuing policies pretty much the same as Bush, eh? There are similarities, ie, Patriot act, the wars, spending, etc.

The system has not changed in any appreciable way, has it?

[Toots]

19. Hmmm Record deficit spending, war on terror, Patriot Act, Military Commission Act,

Didn't all those things happen under one pResident? None were in place before Bush* and just as easily as he placed them all there someone else could take them away..

[BeFree]

23. So

You think Obama could have cut the budget, and rescinded all those anti-terror acts all by himself?

Dream on.

[ZombieHorde]

35. Stem cell research, additional gender protectections in the workplace,

and lowering student loan interests (something which will affect me directly) are all things we now now have because because we elected Obama.

[BlueCaliDem]

9. Yes, if you believe in a government "of, by, and for" the people, i.e. Congress

Congress has the power, not the executive branch, to bring change into our country. The President can only lead and ONLY with a Congress willing to listen and isn't constantly hostile towards him; to give him the same cooperation they did a la Bush. President Obama isn't given that or haven't you noticed?

So yah, like the O.P., I really believe it because I still believe in a government of, by, and for the people. We've temporarily lost it, but we're slowly getting it back.

[anonymous171]

2. I don't want him to please everyone. That's why I am pissed off at his attempts to do so

I want him to appease the left and only the left. Is that too much to ask?

[Toucano]

4. +1

Pleasing the people that got you elected is so George W. Bush!

Now the fashion is to fruitlessly attempt to please the people who don't like you.

[BeFree]

7. Well

The Left has usually been right.

So, no, it isn't too much to ask, if we want it right.

The problem is the system. How do we make the system match the Left?
How do we make it bend, once and for all, to our will?

Obama ain't gonna do it.... Putting all your cards on Obama is gonna piss you off to no end. Is that what we want?

[anonymous171]

10. Here's what we do: We stop voting for politicians who don't represent our interests

If Obama wants to be a republican, that is fine, but he should not expect the left to vote for him in 2012. The same goes for congress. If they wanna play conservative they will have to fine some other way to hang on to their seats because we will not vote or campaign for them. Strategic voting is bullshit and anti-democratic. Politicians need to represent you. If they don't, toss their asses out.

Public Financing would be good too.

[BlueCaliDem]

11. Yeah, stand on your principles and don't vote, weakening

the Democratic party in the halls of Congress.

You can bet your progressive rights that the repubs will vote, en masse, and the only way they win is when progressives and liberals are too hung up on their "rights" that they're too busy pouting and too willing to either vote for a progressive that has ZERO chance of winning, or sit out another election to "make Obama and those straying Dems pay" - and effectively get MORE repugs elected to Congress.

Didn't 2000 teach us anything?

[anonymous171]

13. Democrat wins, enacts republican policy, policy inevitably fails, dems look bad and GOP gains

GOP wins, enacts republican policies, policy inevitably fails, makes GOP look bad and shows that their policies do not work, lib dems gain a generation of voters.

It's not that hard. Republican policies don't work and I refuse to vote for politicians who think that they do.

[BeFree]

15. Blue

I do appreciate your feelings in all this, I really do.
But what you are suggesting is just rearranging the chairs.

Maybe a better way to put it is to say that we are just putting in new and different puppets?

The system is what must be changed.
How do we make the system better represent the Left?

Is it more representation that is needed? Or less?

[BeFree]

12. Financing of elections

That is one systemic change that this country needs.

How do we make that change?

The system is dead set against public financing.
And idea I have is let anyone donate any amount to a race.

Then spread that money evenly between all the qualified candidates in that race

The person or corporation donating can freely say that they want candidate x to win, but the money donated is spread evenly to all candidates in that race.

[Cha]

3. Thanks for your thoughts, BeFree..

It's wonderful when we can appreciate what we have but always striving to be better.

[LARED]

6. What sort of changes did you have in mind?

I like what Winston Churchill said in 1947

Many forms of Government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

[BeFree]

8. In my mind

The more people involved in making decisions that effect the mass of citizens, the better the decision will be.

Basically this: More democracy.

[Mari333]

14. The 'system' will collapse, like all military empires do, in time

It would be nice to be around to see it, but I am 60. Probably wont see it in my lifetime. But it will collapse, as bankruptcy and the horror of what constant war produces.
Oh, it will collapse. It wont be pretty , either.
Maybe I should be glad I wont have to see it.

[BeFree]

16. Me too

In my deepest darkest of hearts, I feel that way too.

But we can still make changes, can't we?
My light-hearted heart requires me to believe we can.
Indeed, we must.

The system must change or it will collapse.

[shadowknows69]

21. Your braver than I for saying it Mari. See down thread.

[Echo In Light]

22. Oh, there'll be plenty more of the expected horrors throughout the social landscape

... more than we've already experienced, and are experiencing.

[shadowknows69]

20. Is this a rhetorical question?

[BeFree]

24. This one?

So what is it about the system that needs changing, and how do we go about making those changes?

I realize no one wants to really discuss the hard work needed.
Seems they just want to cuss?

[Echo In Light]

25. How does one, or, how does a society collectively 'fix' or end an oligarchy?

... especially when the primary system for control within that society is done via propaganda, and corp cultural indoctrination, resulting in millions of people who are not only incapable/unprepared to address dilemmas of such magnitude, but have been effectively brainwashed into either indifference/de-politicization, or worse, conditioned to perceive "reality" through a very specific lens which omits/obscures/obfuscates the objective and moral truth of their society's "value$" and subsequent system of governance?

[BeFree]

28. Ok

First let me say that was one long, bad-ass sentence.

Lots of plain old common folks that I talk to know the system is managed by those who do not have their best interests at heart.

The managers of the system, while replaceable, are all cut from the same cloth.
Obama included.

So my question is: what can we do to alter the system so that we get managers who care about the plain, common people?

[Echo In Light]

32. "Managers," whatever their capacity, may very well 'care' about people while serving corp paymasters

... first and foremost ... which is to say, you may find the genuinely altruistic movers, despite the fact that the corporate, consumer culture generally dissuades people from allowing themselves to feel their's and other's humanity 'too' deeply, seeking out an assortment of the society's managerial positions, but if they wish to "$ucceed" than they're forced to compromise on their ethics and ideals - and this is precisely what average, moderate types insist is 'okay' and 'reasonable' even though it's the exact rhetorical, corporate ass-kissery bullshit that's already led to where things are now.

So the biz as usual approach doesn't work. Nor does voting. Got a Magic 8 Ball?

[BeFree]

34. Magic 8 ball...

...that is what we need.

I think that spreading decision making among the people is the magic we need.
We need representation. We need more and better participation in the decisions that our made in our names.

As it is, the system concentrates power amongst a chosen few. And we see that the chosen few are selected by a few. That is the problem.

How do we alter that system which places power in the chosen few?

[madokie]

26. Vote the congress rats out that are keeping any chance of change away

get corporate money out of our elections and get rid of the hate talk bullshit our airways are so filled with.

[BeFree]

29. Changing the puppets won't work

And the chairs of free speech must be kept open.

What we've got to do is change the system that allows the PTB so much power.
We, the common folk, need to take back what is ours.

In this republic, we appoint managers to take care of our business.
Appointing different managers to the same system gets us nowhere.
The system needs to change.

One of the best things I have had the pleasure of changing - and due mainly to DU - was the system of voting that was foisted on us. We've nearly gotten rid of the paperless voting systems.

Through a concentrated and selfless effort, maybe just 5,000 activists around the US forced change on that system. So I know it can be done, this changing of the system, I just don't know what part we can agree needs to be changed next.

[Shagbark Hickory]

27. Take the profit & fundraising out of running for office and limit terms severely. (in a nutshell)

Corporations mustn't be able to contribute to politicians in any way, shape or form.
Similar to many of the banana republics you read about, our government is very corrupt.

We also have far too many politicians. We don't need hundreds of lawmakers in Washington.
We need about 50 lawmakers and 150 law enforcement detectives to make sure the politicians are not breaking rules or accepting any money for anything.

I'll go one step farther and say that serving in a political office should be a volunteer position. No pay whatsoever. There's plenty of qualified people that will do it for free. Politicians can live in a group dorm and get food and basic living expenses provided but that's it. It'd be like a monastary.

[BeFree]

30. Well

I think that with the internet, we could do away with the concentrated power that we give politicians.
That we could spread out decision making far and wide.

The system we now have thrives on private power. The idea that we have many detectives to watch over the officials is a good one.

Having public wiretapping of elected officials is an idea worth exploring.
Imagine being able to see and hear every action of every official at your fingertips via the internet. 'Twould keep the bastards honest, eh?

[crazyjoe]

31. what we need is someone like Hugo Cevez here.

start by shutting down fox news, limbaugh, savage, ect. these people are allowed to spew their hate about obama and the democrats, and brainwashing the masses.
next, take over industry, make it work for the people instead of enslaving them.
do away with term limits, so we can continue to elect a hero of the people for as long as we choose to.
this is a start anyway.

[BeFree]

33. Heh

You have the gist of the problem, but your solutions are a bit out there.

But the focus on one or another puppet plays right into the existing system.
However, Chavez is altering the established system in his country, how can we do that here?