Do you think it is helpful to repeat the now cliched "That's not change I can believe in"

[BzaDem]

Seriously. You (for the most part) voted for a candidate. That candidate is doing (for the most part) what he promised over and over on the campaign trail. Why do people think it is especially relevant whether this or that action is "change I can believe in?"

If you don't like the policy, fine. Criticize the policy. Such criticism is good for Obama, our country, and democracy. But by saying that this or that isn't "change I can believe in," you are acting as if Obama broke his promise to enact change you can believe in. He did no such thing. When Obama promised to win the war in Afghanistan during the campaign, it then should have been clear to you that Obama's vision of change was simply not consistent with yours.

And for those who voted for Obama last November but are now saying they won't support him in 2012 (for doing something he promised to do), please get over yourself. You will vote for Obama in 2012. You will run to the polls to do so. Honestly, not withstanding all your threats not to do so, you will probably donate to his campaign and man the phones. Your threats aren't credible, because you already voted for him after he already promised to do what he is now doing. If you were actually serious about voting third party in 2012, you would have voted third party in 2008.

[DontTreadOnMe]

1. LOL... get the popcorn ready for this one.

"You will run to the polls to do so. Honestly, not withstanding all your threats not to do so, you will probably donate to his campaign and man the phones."

that's my favorite part of the thread :)

[Cirque du So-What]

2. I think it's very helpful

to Republicans. They LOVE repeating empty catchphrases like that. Apparently, it's contagious to the feebleminded among us.

[debbierlus]

3. You WILL vote for Obama!

You are a drone.

The choice is terrible and horrendous.

Get over yourself, you WILL vote for terrible.

Fall in line.

I find these new posts defending Obama for enacting horrible policy because he said he would enact horrible policy utterly ridiculous.

Obama promised a bunch of things last November that he did not follow through on. And, now, when he follows through on the worst of it, he is defended as a man of his word.

Gross.

The lesson to be learned from this is NOT to bow down and vote for politicians who enact poor policy...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7083775&mesg_id=7083775

[BzaDem]

5. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it any less true.

So please stop insulting other posters' intelligence by pretending that you will vote otherwise.

If you took the time to read my post, I am not defending Obama for enacting this policy or that policy. I am defending Obama against baseless charges that he is somehow breaking a campaign promise to "enact change," when he spelled out what he envisioned that change to be.

[debbierlus]

27. I am not going to vote for him again.

I would never vote for Bush.

And, after what I have witnessed with Obama, I will never vote for him again. He is that bad.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

29. I won't either

I'll write in a candidate.

[BzaDem]

32. You are free to say that, and I am free to not believe you.

Obama is the most liberal president since 1965 at the very least. I really don't believe you won't vote for him in 2012 (even if you honestly believe you won't right now).

[branders seine]

4. helpful? I don't know.

Accurate? Yes.

[Iggo]

6. Yes. But only if you do it.

[donco6]

7. Are you, like, DARING people not to?

I'd rethink that strategy.

[BzaDem]

8. I'm not even daring you. I'm simply stating that it is highly likely you will vote for him

regardless of what you say or feel right now. (Unless of course you didn't vote for Obama in the first place.)

Though if you want to interpret that as a dare, then sure. Just like blue dogs dared John Conyers and Maxine Waters to vote down healthcare reform because it didn't have a robust public option. As much as blue dogs were wrong about opposing the public option, they knew the threat of the progressive caucus to kill healthcare reform wasn't any more credible than the threat of DU posters to vote against Obama.

[frazzled]

9. It worked for John McCain /nt

[parasim]

16. Actually, it didn't. nt

[frazzled]

36. I was being sarcastic, y'know.

[parasim]

43. Ha ha... sorry... obviously my SarcDetector isn't working too well...

[Johonny]

10. While I agree with you

People can if not happy with him in 2012 not vote for him in the Primary. Frankly if he's polling below 45 % come 2011 some other Democratic candidate will at least challenge him. So there is the possibility of other options come 2012. At least theoretically. So the you voted for him in 2008 you'll do it again doesn't have to be true. A lot of people that voted for LBJ wouldn't have again and certainly a lot of people that voted Carter didn't vote Carter again.

[gleaner]

11. I have never used that particular phrase ....

however, I have said, and will say again for the umpteenth time, that I am disappointed in Obama. He has not in any part doing what he promised to do during the campaign. So follow the bouncing ball, as they used to say when they showed films they wanted you to sing along to. We have no viable health care plan. Only a weak watered down Republican blackmailed morass that is not going to get any better no matter how long they do or do not debate it.

The economy is still a shambles. Inflation is high, jobs are scarce. There has been no movement from Obama to move in any direction there except for the initial stimulus bill which was simply not enough. In fact beneficiaries of Social Security, the Veteran's Administration, federal retirees and current federal workers are getting no cost of living raise at all. The Obama administration decided that Bush in his desperate burst of cynicism by giving a moderate raise to people in those areas had overspent, so now there will be no raise this year. Many of these people are people who voted for Obama, who believed in him and who are struggling to put food on the table. In the meantime the rich continue to benefit under the no taxation system that the Republicans put into place.

Also Obama has escalated the war in Afghanistan and gives every indication of enlarging it more. That was not a campaign promise. There are still troops in Iraq, and now Obama is refusing to sign an international treaty to ban land minds while many of our soldiers have been and are being injured and maimed by roadside bombs. Obama is sending drones into Pakistan and rising a nuclear conflict with them in so doing. He has not made any move to prosecute or hold the Bush administration accountable for their, and now his, torture policies, and they are still walking free after having committed horrific war crimes. But that seems to be OK by Obama. Torture is now officially an accepted means of interrogation. If you don't punish people who commit crimes, the crimes become a part of the fabric of society and you are saying they are fine by you. They are not fine by me. I expect they are also not fine by the people who are still being held in Gitmo whom he promised to free, but has not.

Obama recently gave his support for the Patriot Act. This is both unconstitutional and unnecessary. Did he promise to do that during his campaign? I never heard him.

I am very unhappy with Obama. I am very unhappy with his supporters who in a superior tone keep telling me that I don't hear what I am hearing or see what I am seeing. If people who supported Obama want to keep telling themselves that he is doing swell and nothing is amiss that is your business, but those beliefs have no moral or actual superiority over taking a hard look at reality and knowing you have been sold out. So once again. Do not tell me what to think. Do not tell me what to feel. Do not tell me I see one think when I know that I am seeing another. If you don't like what I say, don't read it. Block it and go about your business in perfect peace.

Did it ever occur to you that if you didn't have some small tendrils of doubt that it would not matter at all to you how the rest of us feel toward your candidate or how we intend to throw our support in th future? Maybe you should look around and take a good hard inventory of what you are getting from Obama. A lot of chit chat with Republicans which is accomplishing nothing, and dismissal of many Democrats who could actually help him keep his long lost promises.

[CBR]

12. I think of McCain's green screen speech whenever someone says

that because he repeated the mantra over and over again. Repeating that is just as useless as repeating the original IMO

[AllentownJake]

13. I swear the cheer leaders are getting nastier and crazier this past week

Was it the Senate Bill or the Afghan troop escalation that has you guys pissing your pants right now.

[Prism]

18. Oh, it's the escalation

Because it's so crazy indefensible from just about any standpoint, much less a liberal one. When you have no possible defense, employ the vitriol and smear the critics. It is quite literally all they have.

It's why you're starting to earn your own personal board stalkers. Can't explain the policy? Go after the critics.

[AllentownJake]

19. Funny I mostly bitch about Geithner and Summers and their idiotic policies

I think the war is a dumbass move, but I rarely post on it. I just assume most people on here think the war is a dumbass move.

I have developed a nice little fan club recently though.

[BzaDem]

21. If you read my post, you would know that I'm not defending any policy.

I'm simply defending Obama against the baseless notion that he somehow broke a campaign promise to offer "change you can believe in."

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Something has definitely gotten them all riled up. Maybe it's just a

desperate bid to keep their rose-colored glasses clamped firmly over their eyes?

They may be tired of "This is not change I can believe in," but I am sick and tired abused liberal syndrome.

[AllentownJake]

26. I don't know I think for some it is time to seek professional help

They are honestly starting to engage in some scary group think and crazy behavior.

[donco6]

35. It's close to payday.

Gotta earn their keep.

[QC]

37. Having the scales ripped from one's eyes is painful.

As it becomes harder and harder for them to deny that their idol has feet of clay, they will lash out more and more at those of us who were onto him from the beginning.

(Of course, most such people got hounded off this site during the primaries.)

[Flaneur]

14. Is this yet another invitation to shut up and vote third party?

Keep talking.

[BzaDem]

15. No. It is an invitation to criticize policy, instead of pretending that you will vote third party.

[tekisui]

40. That is all I do.

I criticize stupid policies. And, I get personal attacks, snide comments and condescending bullshit from the right-or-wrong defenders.

[NoPasaran]

17. Nickles made of strawberries

Not the sort of change I believe in.

[Prism]

20. I don't think the LGBT community will have a problem staying home

"You will vote for Obama in 2012."

You really have no idea how furious people are, do you?

It will take a miracle (or living up to any expectation whatsoever) to get me in the voting booth next year. I may not vote for anyone else, but I'm not going to expend any effort to help politicians who so plainly cannot be bothered to help me or the American people.

[Catshrink]

22. Or the teachers

Arne's a joke -- dragging Newt and Sharpton around as experts on education when none of them have ever taught K-12? Teachers are pissed.

[Prism]

28. It's a travesty

What's happening with education is another of the Big Indefensibles. In a little over a month, I'll be returning to college for a teaching degree. Right now, I'm wondering if I should bother at all.

[BzaDem]

31. I am furious too.

I think I would agree with you a lot more than you think on most issues. I wish Obama were doing much, much more on LGBT issues.

I just am not going to let my anger get me to hand the reins to Sarah Palin (or to avoid doing anything in my power to prevent that from happening). And I don't think you are either.

I'm not really talking about the 2010 elections (these are mostly low-turnout affairs).

[Prism]

33. It comes down to the quality of support a politician can expect

I supported the President in the primaries, donated, worked for him, argued for him even when that was a highly unpopular thing to do in the LGBT community. With health care, I've donated yet more, written everyone I can think of, showed up at gatherings.

To say the results of those efforts are currently a grave disappointment is understating things.

In 2012, if things remain on their present course, I very much doubt I will be doing any of those things. Will I show up at the booth? We'll see. He has done the bare minimum, and in return that course of action seems increasingly attractive. I must say, I was one of his most enthusiastic supporters during the election. On election night, I was there in Grant Park weeping with joy right along with everyone else.

Now, all of that's gone and there is only a hollow feeling of disappointment mixed with anger at some of the things the President has done thus far. Right now, I feel like we're watching one of the worst travesties of lost potential in modern politics. He had so much in the palm of his hand, and I see him throwing it away every single day.

At some point, you have to say "No, I will not give my approval to this. No."

[spoony]

23. Take your own advice.

Get over yourself. Starting yet another scold thread doesn't do anything but alienate people more, especially with such demeaning, controlling statements as "You will vote for Obama in 2012. You will run to the polls to do so." You're just daring progressives to bail, and you may not like the result.

[NMMNG]

25. He isn't change I can believe in

But then I didn't believe in it in the first place. Neither my wife nor I bought into the Obama craze, and we tried to warn people he wasn't what he/his supporters claimed he was--and boy did we get trashed for it.


BTW we did vote third-party in 2008, and we'll do it again in 2012 if all we're offered otherwise is a choice of bad and worse. We will no longer vote for any candidate just because s/he has a "D" after his/her name, or because s/he is the lesser of two evils. We will only vote for whomever we feel is the best candidate. Candidates now have to earn our votes, not just be the least sucky of two options.


We don't vote for candidates. We vote for values. If a candidate supports our values they get our votes. If not, they don't.

[rucky]

30. I see your cliche and raise you a pony. n/t

[notesdev]

34. We did criticize the policy

... when it was Bush's policy.

Then we voted for change.

And Obama took office. The war, lobbyists writing legislation, banker bailouts, the Patriot Act, displacement of US workers... um, hello??? Anybody home? Anyone want to stand up for the little guy? That was practically the definition of Democrat not long ago... (yes, Sen. Sanders and Rep. Kucinich, I see the two of you there, and thank you.) Anyone else?

What really changed other than the face on the TV?

We got punked, used.

You bet we're mad, and getting madder.

[LWolf]

38. Helpful to whom?

While I don't think I've over-used that expression, I think it's highly appropriate.

It points out that ambiguous, euphoric campaign slogans used to drum up emotional support don't really mean anything. It was obvious, to me anyway, all along that people were projecting the "change" they believed in onto a candidate whose idea of change was something quite different.

That's a terrible mistake, and I hope they are learning from it, and won't make it again.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I think I've been consistent on this point. My votes are earned. Obama hasn't earned them.

I can also say that he's deservedly lost support from a great many groups that helped elect him.

You might be better employed convincing him to win that support back, rather than deriding or bullying those he will need in 2012.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. I vote policies (issues). Not party or politician.

The party/politician is only a tool to advance or deter policies. Being an anti-war progressive it would be foolish for me to vote for a politician who escalates a war. In this case a lost war.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

[leeroysphitz]

41. I know it's been done and I know it irritates the brain dead rah rah cheer leading squads but

when it's the clearest, most accur4ate and succinct way to voice our disappointment then why not use it?

[Vidar]

42. You bet!