Why arguing if climate change is real is useless

[AngryAmish]

It has nothing to do with the data, stolen e-mails, financial interests of the various scientists, etc.


It has to do with our brains.


Everyone likes to think that they are logical and can interpret data and form their own conclusions. And they think their opponents are illogical and bad. This is wrong. We form a conclusion on a topic without knowing why. This conclusion is formed by the emotional part of the brain. Then after the fact we come up with reasons justifying our conclusion. Since the decision is at it's core emotional people are not able to change their minds.

So the climate change deniers say - look at these stolen emails, they prove a conspiracy and fraud.

Climate change supporters say - the emails are stolen and deniers are in the pocket of big oil.

It is akin to making a committed Democrat vote Republican and vice versa. It can happen but it is very unusual. Or convince someone to change religion.

[MadHound]

1. Frankly I think that it is useless,

By the time that you convince enough of the people in power, convince the enough of the public at large to support meaningful climate change legislation, it will already be too late and we will be doing too little, too late. This pattern was set with Kyoto, and is going to be followed by Copenhagen.

Industrial countries like America are approaching this incrementally, when the fact of the matter is that serious, radical change is needed now if we're going to have any hope of changing things. Meanwhile, countries like China and India are dragging their heels because they want the US lifestyle and see no reason, including the environment, that they should be denied that. Which is why they're building massive coal generators in order to power their country, they're cheap, fast and effective, screw the environment.

For these reasons I think that we're already too late, and we're pretty well screwed. All I'm doing at this point is preparing for my own future and that of my family, so that we can ride this out as best as possible. Yes, I'm doing my part, beyond my part to save the environment, but as far as trying to convince others, I feel that it is too little, too late at this point, a lost cause.

[endless october]

2. then build some nuke plants.

build some solar, wind, and renewable power plants. stop worldwide interventionism and spend that money on our infrastructure. start building them right now, and don't privatize them. once we have more than we need, start shutting down coal plants.

here's how not to do it : sign up for cap and trade nonsense and start raising the bills of people who are already pinched to the bone. because they will not support that. it will be dead on arrival, and good Democrats will get voted out because of it. cap and trade in the middle of a recession is suicide.

i would like to solve the problem as much as anyone. note that i said SOLVE the problem. cap and trade won't solve it. China and India might sign on, but they won't play ball. our few remaining manufacturing jobs will continue to travel to slave labor markets governed by pollution cheats.

so solve the problem. build the clean energy plants we need, and run the dirty ones out of business. prioritize. we don't need a war. we need infrastructure here at home. it's time to act.

[Winterblues]

5. Where is the money going to come from to build all those new plants?

Someone has to pay... At least with "cap and trade" the big polluters will be forced to recognize their offense and work toward making appropriate adjustments. They can not put all of the costs onto us. Yes there will be some raises of energy costs but do you think we should not have to shoulder some of the costs of cleaning up our pollution...The things you mentioned should and will be done as well, but this takes effect much sooner. Do you believe cleaning up our mess is going to be FREE?

[endless october]

6. end the wars. end the drug war. end interventionism.

that's enough for nationalized energy and single payer.

it's about prioritizing.

[optimator]

3. all of this could have been avoided

if the environmental movement had not been hijacked by global warming/climate change.
I know a lot of environmental organizations that have closed their doors because nobody cares about toxicity anymore, nobody cares about pollution in the air water and soil because all the money and focus is on climate/greenhouse. So while everyone debates the validity of climate chaneg, real environmentalism has been wiped out.

[The2ndWheel]

4. Plus we don't want to stop climate change

We want to change the climate. We want to change a particular way the climate is changing. Ultimately, we want to control the climate.

[Blue_Tires]

7. all the deniers want to do is keep the status quo and stall any meaningful action

each year that passes when they are able to stifle the discussion and block environmental reform is a victory for them...each passing year the agents of industrial giants manufacture another massive Michael Crichton-style 'conspiracy cover-up theory' to excite their base means another three years in delays...

[ensho]

8. climate change will trump everything and everyone

one tick of the clock left