Just FYI - "classy" is an inherently bigoted term.

[Naturyl]

If you don't know why that is the case, perhaps you should find out why you don't know.

If you don't think the use of this bigoted term is problematic, perhaps you should look into that as well.

Just food for thought.

[TwilightGardener]

1. Stay classy, Naturyl.

[Richardo]

3. !!

:rofl:

[underpants]

9. Stay golden Pony Boy!

Happy Thanksgiving Richardo

[Naturyl]

10. I agree, it's hilarious. Bigotry is fun.

What would happen if I mocked a post highlighting bigotry against gays, blacks or women by saying "stay n----rs," "stay queer," or "stay bitches?"

Yep, I'd be rightfully annihilated. But it's fine to reply to a post pointing out bigotry against the poor with mockery.

[Ghost in the Machine]

175. Bigotry against the poor??? WTF!?!?!

You think poor people don't have any class???

I've known dirt poor people that had more class in their pinkies than a whole slew of millionaires could ever dream of, and I've known a few millionaires that were nothing but low class fucking pond scum....

I think I just sprained my brain trying to make sense of this post...

[Jamastiene]

229. Exactly. n/t

[yurbud]

203. are you implying that poor people lack taste or judgment and therefore aren't classy?

[Jamastiene]

230. Remember the saying about throwing stones in glass houses?

You just shit and fell back in it. In your attempt to shame anyone using "classy" by saying they meant poor people, you have insinuated that poor people have no class. That, in and of itself, is a broad brushed bigoted mindset.

Did you have a Plan B? If you did, you might want to implement it now. If not, prepare to have your ass further handed to you.

[bikingaz]

242. Yup that was bigoted. Probably 2009 dumbest post so far - eom

[bobbolink]

226. Soooo, shall we LAUGH at a "foreign" name?

[FSogol]

2. How does this affect my 1965 Mustang convertible?

I have an idea. Why not make every word or term offensive to someone and evolve past the need for language? That way our mean words, like classy or pony, won't upset anyone.

:cry:

[Naturyl]

116. Mustangs are also offensive!

Camaro/Firebird all the way. :p

[mitchum]

4. Nice post, Noel Coward

[EFerrari]

27. lol

[Naturyl]

5. Now let's have the unrecs, please.

Because bigotry is peachy keen when it is directed against the lower economic classes.

For those interested in why the term "classy" is bigoted, there is an explanation here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=230x3612

[Richardo]

18. This is an example why liberals are not taken seriously by many people

...and are seen as humor-challenged and tiresome. I'm willing to bet that >90% of the time the term "classy" is used on this board, and in general, in an homage to the ironic tag line of the anchorman in Will Ferrell's alleged comedy "The Anchorman" ("Stay classy, San Diego!").

Please, tell us what obscure, perfectly benign term to be outraged by next. "Sinister"? It's anti-left-handed you know. As is 'gauche'. Imagine using such terms in polite society. I'm left-handed! :cry:

[Cirque du So-What]

53. I'd give your post a left-handed compliment

but I'd surely get flamed for it.

[Naturyl]

59. I love Anchorman.

And yes, the use in that context is funny. I am far from humor-impaired.

Many are empathy-impaired when it comes to the impact of everyday language and everyday assumptions can have on the economically disadvantaged, though.

P.S. - I love lamp.

[EOTE]

189. OK, but is "ass" still allowed?

Because that post reeks of it. I really hope you're not being serious. Maybe it would be quicker if you provided a list of words that ARE acceptable.

[Dreamer Tatum]

6. I wish we had 5, 10, and 15-yard unrecs

So I could throw the 15-yard kind for bullshit oblique sanctimony like yours.

[Naturyl]

14. And yet, the term "classy" is still bigoted.

Throw 50 megaton unrecs if you like. My OP is no less correct because of it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

19. It's only correct if people stroke your ego by looking it up and groveling to you

rather than you maybe explaining yourself first.

[Dreamer Tatum]

21. dupe

[FSogol]

23. Wrong: Check out the definition of classy

class⋅y

–adjective, class⋅i⋅er, class⋅i⋅est. Informal.
of high class, rank, or grade; stylish; admirably smart; elegant.


The definition seems to lack what you are reading into it. You can stretch anything into an offensive term, but, that doesn't mean you are correct.

[Naturyl]

33. "Of high class."

"Of high class." That means socioeconomic class.

Classy (of high socioeconomic class) = good. Not classy (of low socioeconomic class) = bad.

Still not seeing the inherent bigotry against poor people?

[FSogol]

40. Definition of high class

high-class

–adjective
of a type superior in quality or degree; first-rate: a high-class hotel.


Quality doesn't imply high social-economical class. Remember the Cinderella story?

Sorry, but you are off base and stretching definitions to meet your goals. There is nothing bigoted about the terms classy or high class.

[verges]

54. It's more a matter of style rather than money. nt

[Chan790]

163. Incorrect...

you have your etymology backwards here.

"Class" in this sense means and originally meant "quality", the later problematic use of "class" as also reflective of socioeconomic-standards came from an admittedly-questionable worldview that the wealthy were a better quality of people. The definition you find offensive is not as old as the term you're critiquing for it.

[lukasahero]

180. thank you

Used to be that facts mattered around here. Nice to see some folks still use them.

:hi:

[slackmaster]

251. Elegance is the closest to what I mean when I use the term classy

Elegance has no connection with socioeconomic class or wealth. An elegant solution to a problem is a simple and efficient one. An elegant dinner party means one that is expertly executed, well presented, irrespective of the cost of the ingredients or the opulence of the utensils or furnishings.

[ProgressiveFool]

212. This deep into the thread and no one agrees with you...

Is your OP still correct?

Of all the fights to pick... sheesh.

[HeresyLives]

7. Oh it is not. That's just silly.

:rofl:

[Naturyl]

22. It's not? Explain how it's not.

"Classy" means, quite literally, having the properties or attributes of a high socioeconomic class. How is that not intrinsically bigoted against lower socioeconomic classes? Have you ever heard a trailer park or a public housing project described as "classy?"

To label someone or something "classy" is to say that it is superior because it exhibits attributes of high socioeconomic status. It affirms the bigoted belief that such status is equivalent to overall worth or value.

[Chan790]

164. You've juxtaposed...

two definitions of "class":

1.) quality
2.) socioeconomic status

and you've chosen the wrong one. The terms "classy" refers to qualitative class not economic class. I absolutely respect your concern but you're so off-base here that to borrow an old New England truism "You just can't get there from here."

[pipi_k]

198. so because trailer parks and housing developments aren't called "classy",

that means the word "classy" is a slam against the lower classes?


Wow.

Here's what I think...I think that anyone who calls that much attention to what the "lower classes" are, is the one with the prejudice problems.

And I believe it shows how many people, so concerned that every single word that points out someone's differentness, are really the ones with the problem. I worked with a woman one time who felt awful years later after something she mistakenly said to another coworker who was handicapped and wanted her to pick something up for her, "What, are you crippled or something?"

The handicapped woman laughed. I would imagine she was GLAD to have someone actually see her as a HUMAN BEING, and not her handicap, or her color, or her socioeconomic status.


there are those of us who use the term "classy" in a different way than you do. We're not using the term to segregate someone according to his or her socioeconomic status.

[MyPinkPrius]

8. Most people have a lot of class

The shame of it is, its all low.

[Luminous Animal]

24. High class and low class are defined by the high class to let

their inferiors know their place. For example, lose a million dollars at Monte Carlo, high class. Lose $20 at the dog races, low class.

But, I do not agree that the word classy is bigoted. Classy means elegance and style and you don't need money for either one. Some people, like my daughter and her best friend can pull elegance and style off of the sidewalk which is where they get most of their clothing.

[annabanana]

29. +1. . It's the "Beauty is what Beauty does" thing. . . . n/t

[Richardo]

39. Are we being visited by a time machine from the 1920s?

I don't think I've heard the term 'classy' used in an unironic manner by anyone under 75 in forever.

Oh, and welcome to the future! It's the 21st century if you can believe it!

[Luminous Animal]

52. Irony is dead, dude.

[Richardo]

58. Note to self: Read the entire post I am responding to.

Mea culpa. :blush:

But I'm leaving the time machine remark because it is pretty funny. I'm just taking you out of it. :)

[Luminous Animal]

It was pretty funny!

Thanks for taking me out of it.

:toast:

[bbinacan]

11. UNREC

because this is a stupid ass comment.

[Naturyl]

82. I agree, that was a stupid ass comment. (n/t)

[SoCalDem]

12. Quick! Notify Merriam Webster

Main Entry: classy
Pronunciation: \ˈkla-sē\
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): class·i·er; class·i·est
Date: 1891

: having or showing class: as a : elegant, stylish <a classy clientele> b : having or reflecting high standards of personal behavior <a classy guy> <a classy gesture> c : admirably skillful and graceful <a classy outfielder>

— class·i·ness noun

[Mad_Dem_X]

197. "having or reflecting high standards of personal behavior"

That's what I always considered "classy" to mean. It has nothing to do with how much money you have.

[slackmaster]

249. Also the definition for "class act" seems appropriate here

Main Entry: class act
Function: noun
Date: 1976
: an example of outstanding quality or prestige

Again, nothing about wealth or social position.

[Ozymanithrax]

13. I would say it is biased.

Biased is:

favoring one person or side over another

Where as biggoted is:

blindly and obstinately attached to some creed or opinion and intolerant toward others

and Classy is:

having elegance or taste or refinement in manners or dress.

They are not synonomous. Taste is high subjective, and elegance, manners, and dress are culturally defined.

[SoCalDem]

20. Exactly.. No matter the station in life or the "class" one is in, it's VERY possible

to BE classy, or to be crass and annoying.. Some of the classiest people I ever met were quite poor:)and some of the most UN-classy people were wealthy :)

"Classy" is to bigotry as bicycle is to pumpkin :)

[FSogol]

31. +1 n/t

[tammywammy]

63. + 1 n/t

[Naturyl]

66. Very well, but as I replied to another poster:

You are still correlating your idea of "class" with socioeconomic class. "I've met lots of rich people that weren't classy" is much like saying "I've met lots of blacks that weren't n----rs." Same general idea, because the bigoted assumptions are still central to the statement.

[SoCalDem]

115. I guess a feeling of inferiority could make one think that others

are looking down on them.. Perhaps some introspection of the person feeling that way would be in order:)

[Naturyl]

117. Ah yes, blame the victim.

I guess it was a feeling of inferiority that made blacks upset at being called "n----rs," and a felling of inferiority that made gays upset at being called "f----ts." Yep, must have been. Some introspection would have taken care of it and given them the ability to shrug off those words.

[SoCalDem]

126. what year did you graduate from

RTU?










Republican Talking University..phd in twisted logic?

with a minor in poutrage, I see, as well:rofl:

[Naturyl]

127. I could ask you the same question.

"Poutrage" is not a particularly progressive concept. It is much more reminiscent of right-wingers who think that any concerned person's perspectives amounts to whining and tantrum-throwing. So in what RTU class did you learn the term "poutrage?"

Additionally, none of your personal attacks against me addressed my point. Irrelevant ad hominem is another "RTU" tactic.

[Xipe Totec]

15. What a snobbish thing to say n/t

[Jade Fox]

16. Right. And if you say "I see." you're being oppressive to the blind....

Obsessing over politically correct language to the point of silliness accomplishes nothing.

[Salmonslayer]

17. Clue me in

" If you don't know why that is the case, perhaps you should find out why you don't know."

I have no clue what is bigoted about using the term "classy". Dose this make me a bigot?? Can you give me a hint on why "classy" is bigoted?

I always thought is was that people that use the word "classy" do not have class. People with class do not talk about class in my opinion.

I feel like I am chasing my tail with this one.

Anyway thanks for giving me the opportunity to type my first post.

Interesting website

[Naturyl]

26. Welcome to DU.

Think about the term "class" for a second. To what does it refer? What is "class?" Just because people have disconnected "class" from its actual origin does not mean the term does not have bigoted implications. The origin of the term "class" is quite simply CLASS - as in socioeconomic class. If someone or something is "classy" it has the properties or attributes of high socioeconomic class, and is therefore superior or worthy. And that is where the bigotry lies.

[verges]

61. Is it also bigoted to call someone a jerk? nt

[varelse]

246. No - that's sexist

maybe we should all just stick to sign language. :crazy:

[marshall]

139. I think the word refers to the highest held qualities within one's class

But that's from a historical perspective, and my reading of the word's early uses--the earliest was in 1891 in "American Girl in London".

[treestar]

222. I see what you are saying

but the word just doesn't have that connotation when people use it.

When the person asked if smoking was classy, they probably weren't thinking at all of whether it approximated the behavior of the upper class. The upper class may smoke, too. At one time, smoking looked elegant (see movies from the 40s and 50s).

And like many have said on the thread, the lower class person can easily do something "classy." It's become a compliment.

The word has taken on that element of elegance and style too, which isn't limited to the upper class.

And it is possible not to be bigoted just referring to generalized behavior of the upper and lower classes. It doesn't mean you are prejudiced against either class by admitting they exist. Where would DU be if it couldn't bash the rich? And that includes their behavior and the way it is influenced by the way they have too much money. If we couldn't use the terms, then we couldn't differentiate.

There's a point where it isn't bigotry, just saying there is a difference. If I said the President was was "African-American" I wouldn't be bashing him or calling him inferior just saying that. I'd be just describing him.

[annabanana]

32. Welcome to DU!

Feel free to poke around & kick the tires, etc.

We have some fun here.

[SoCalDem]

218. Welcome to DU.. You will find, with time,

that at least *82.7% of the threads here are not nearly as obtuse as this one:):rofl:


*..most likely not true, since I made up this number:)

[Raine]

25. Whatever

:shrug: and what next. :eyes: Some look for an insult when none is intended, no wonder PC has become a joke that liberals are hammered with and not taken seriously. :yoiks:

[Naturyl]

30. I happen to hate PC.

"Classy" isn't something that is non-offensive, though. It is offensive to every person of low economic means, or at least it should be. If it isn't, it is because people have no clue what "classy" actually means or what it implies - which is superiority based on economic class. Just think about it for a minute. How can the term "classy" NOT be connected to bigoted ideas about economic class?

[Richardo]

34. Sorry, if you're telling people to be offended when they're not, that's worse than PC.

There's plenty of REAL outrage in this world without looking for things to be offended by.

[Naturyl]

45. I'm not asking anyone to be offended.

I'm asking them to stop habitually insulting people of low economic status by using this term.

[Richardo]

46. No, you're TELLING them to be offended:

It is offensive to every person of low economic means, or at least it should be. If it isn't, it is because people have no clue what "classy" actually means or what it implies...

And worse, you're saying if they're not, it's because they're too stupid to be offended.

[Naturyl]

57. Not too stupid, no...

Too uninformed regarding the origins of this particular term, perhaps. But that's hardly their fault, since we all live in this ridiculous American society where socioeconomic class is imagined to either not exist or to have no relevance, and where all sorts of abuse against poor people is tolerated or (worse yet) not even recognized or acknowledged, even by the left.

[enlightenment]

64. GOOD GRIEF.

I cannot believe you wrote that. All this crap about the bigotry implied in an innocuous word and then you have the absolute audacity to claim that if a 'person of low economic means' isn't offended by the word classy, it's because they are what, exactly?

Too stupid to understand? Not educated enough to understand?

Way to go with the superiority, Naturyl.

You just tarred yourself with your own damn brush. Quit while you're ahead.

[Naturyl]

70. Nope, I'll copy my response to the other person who made the same silly objection

Not "too stupid," no. Too uninformed regarding the origins of this particular term, perhaps. But that's hardly their fault, since we all live in this ridiculous American society where socioeconomic class is imagined to either not exist or to have no relevance, and where all sorts of abuse against poor people is tolerated or (worse yet) not even recognized or acknowledged, even by the left.

[enlightenment]

125. Uninformed is just a

nicer way of saying that someone is ignorant - or worse - stupid. The presumption is that these disadvantaged people are so bereft of any of the advantages of society that they can't be expected to grasp the subtle nuances of this presumed insult. That they need to be educated so that they can recognize when they're being insulted.

I prefer to think that people - even poor people - are smarter than you need them to be for your excess of moral outrage.

[Naturyl]

128. Yes, EVEN poor people. Wow, even THEM?

Whoopsie, you made a boo boo. Let's paraphrase slightly:

I prefer to think that people - even black people - are smarter than you need them to be for your excess of moral outrage.

I prefer to think that people - even gay people - are smarter than you need them to be for your excess of moral outrage.

I prefer to think that people - even blonde people - are smarter than you need them to be for your excess of moral outrage.

The reply would have been fairly effective had you not inadvertently outed the very bigotry so many here are denying exists. Of course, I'm sure you'll insist that's not at all what you meant, and many will believe you, so no worries.

[enlightenment]

214. I honestly don't get your point

but then that is unsurprising, since you haven't made a lick of sense since you started this thread. Perhaps the weight of your halo is crushing your skull?

[Luminous Animal]

72. Because my poverty stricken farmer's-wife great aunt was classy.

She had style and grace. My daughter, who finds most of her clothes on the sidewalk, has style and grace. Both are recognized for their style and grace which has nothing to do with the economic class to which the belong.

[annarbor]

119. While eulogizing my beautiful grandmother....

I spoke of what a "Class Act" she had been her entire life. She too had such style and grace. I can only hope to be as classy as she was.

Ann Arbor

[Raine]

169. I see your point

but I think that very few see it as an insult when someone compliments them on looking "classy" or behaving "classy" and the one who tells them that means it in a positive way because of "common usage".

[dalaigh lllama]

225. You are disregarding the evolution of the English language.

Whether or not the term was first exclusively used as related to socioeconomic class, today that is no longer always true. If I speak of Queen Elizabeth and say, "What a classy dame," I'm using it in the sense you imply. But neither I nor anyone I know would say that.

If I say to someone on DU, "Stay classy," I am commenting on their behavior, not their economic level. That usage is becoming the more prevalent.

Complaining about using "classy" because of its original meaning would be like complaining about "Good Bye" being said in schools because it's religious.

[Odin2005]

28. Gee, classy, NOT!

:P

[glitch]

35. The term "Classy" hasn't correlated to wealth since the Bushes became wealthy.

Actually long before, but I try not to miss any opportunities to slam Bushes.

The assumption that class does correlate to wealth at this point in human development is archaic (and could be argued as bigoted, IMO), much like assuming "whore" can only apply to women.

[Naturyl]

38. Have you ever heard a trailer park or a public housing project described as "classy?"

If not, why?

[glitch]

43. No but I've heard very poor people described as classy.

It hasn't correlated to monetary wealth for as long as I've been alive, which is pretty long.

[MrModerate]

36. If you think "classy" means "of the upper class" as opposed to proletarian . . .

Then you're simply trying to take one possible meaning and apply it to all cases. In other words, to distort.

While dictionaries are all over the map on the word, in common parlance it means "poised," "dignified," and "admirable" -- attributes that anyone can posses.

Bigoted? Piffle.

[Touchdown]

37. What are you, The Bible? Tell us "No!" but don't bother to explain?

No wonder your Avatar is the Lucent Technologies Asshole logo.

[Naturyl]

41. Feast your eyes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=230x3612

The avatar is actually an Oriental symbol, but I guess you saw what suits you.

[Touchdown]

44. "Oriental" is a bigotted term. If you don't know that, then you should look it up.

;)

[Richardo]

49. For the win

:thumbsup:

[Stevenmarc]

42. Total fucking nonsense

You see that wasn't so classy, Being classy is a behavior it doesn't indicate ones socioeconomic position, you can have people that don't have two nickles to rub together yet carry themselves in a manner that can be easily described as classy or you can tune into TMZ and watch a whole lot of rich and famous that wouldn't know classy if it came in a gift box.

[Naturyl]

48. You proved my point without realizing it.

You are still correlating your idea of "class" with socioeconomic class. "I've met lots of rich people that weren't classy" is much like saying "I've met lots of blacks that weren't n----rs." Same general idea, because the bigoted assumptions are still central to the statement.

[Stevenmarc]

68. No not really

I know exactly what I wrote and I worded it that way because I saw where you were going with this in post#22. The fact remains that word Classy relates to behavior and if you want to perceive it in the same strata as the N word, well that's on you.

[verges]

69. No. They're responding in your terms.

Don't move the posts.

[verges]

47. Why is it a bigoted term?

Really. I don't follow you at all.

[Naturyl]

50. Thanks for asking

Instead of just immediately berating me as others here have seen fit to do.

I made a post about it a while back explaining why I feel this way:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=230x3612

[verges]

74. Okay. I read it. You're wrong. nt

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[verges]

83. "Class" in the sense you are using it, has nothing

to do with socioeconomic status. It's a matter of style and is very subjective. You're point may have ben valid at some point in the languages hisstory. But usage can change meaning. And has in this case.

Words can only do damage when their meanings are destructive. The mraning of "classsy" has changed to the point it is toothless. The original meaning which you are bemoaning is no longer relevant.

[Naturyl]

87. It has changed meaning to some extent, among some groups.

Among ordinary people, I agree that it has acquired a more innocuous meaning and is generally not meant offensively (although the roots of the term are still bigoted).

Among the rich, however, the term "class" is still very much used in its socioeconomic sense and actively carries the connotations of bigotry against those of lower socioeconomic status.

[verges]

89. Then stop taking offense where none is intended. nt

[bobbolink]

234. And those using the "N" word don't intend any offense.

At least, that's what they've always claimed.

Why is it so hard to understand that there is a word that you need to change?

Why does that stick in your craw so badly?

[eilen]

178. Exactly, thus the term:

"You can't buy class."

[glitch]

91. Verges is correct & this could be a learning moment for you, rather than using the forum to insult

and feel insulted. :thumbsdown:

[pipi_k]

184. Your opinion

Quoting you...

"Why I feel this way"

so you feel this way, and because it's your opinion, that must make it so?



OK, make it so. In your opinion. That doesn't make it a fact.

[slackmaster]

221. Some of the classiest people I have ever met happen to be poor

My stepfather joined the Navy at age 15 (lied about his age) to get out of dire poverty in the 1930s.

A divorce with child support and alimony payments left him nearly penniless for most of the 1960s. He never rose above a modest middle-class income.

He was the classiest person I have ever known.

[TlalocW]

51. Using classy is declasse?

Fortunately I have sassy and brassy left as adjectives!!!

TlalocW

[glitch]

55. How desasse!

Or do I mean debrasse?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

56. "I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody instead of a bum

which I am."

I don't think the character portrayed by Brando was talking about having failed to become an aristocrat. He was lamenting the fact that he sold out to the mobsters instead of becoming a virtuous person leading a meaningful life.

[Naturyl]

65. Nonetheless, class still implies *class*

As in socioeconomic class. If the idea is to indicate meaningful, virtuous, elegant, worthy, or whatever else, why not just use those terms? Why use a term which implies a socioeconomic element and implicitly degrades those of low socioeconomic status?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

73. I don't know anyone who would interpret the use of the word in that great film

as implying a desire to ascend to a higher socioeconomic station. In fact, I think the opposite is implied. Brando took easy money from gangsters, betrayed his friends, and failed to live up to his potential in pursuing an honest, self-made living as a boxer.

[flvegan]

60. Freddie Blassie is NOT a bigot!!!!!

:rofl:

[Naturyl]

71. LOL, +1 for that one.

I must concede, Freddie Blassie is indeed not a bigot.

[LostInAnomie]

62. Posts like this are one of the reasons I love unrec.

A year ago, it would have been impossible to keep a sanctimonious grammar police post like this off the greatest page. There would have been at least 5 other DUers with a ridiculously poor grasp of language and context that would have reflexively recced it out of fear they might offend some PC God if they didn't.

Thankfully, Duers with the ability to use a dictionary now have a voice and can keep crap like this OP from making the Greatest Page and being seen as a representation of DU as a whole.

[Naturyl]

75. Yes, you are an hero.

Thanks so much for that valuable service.

As for your assumptions about me, each and every one is 180 degrees off the mark, but knock yourself out.

Glad you're so worried that someone's opinion about what they perceive as anti-poor bigotry be kept from "representing DU." I'm sure it would be much more damaging than the rabid profanity-ridden irrational screeds that appear here daily.

[LostInAnomie]

135. Your perception is a world apart from reality in this case.

Every couple of months someone on here decides to become an amateur etymologist and declare some innocuous word as "bigoted" (Look up the douchebag thread for a prime example). What they, and you, miss is that the context of a word is much more important than the origin. That's why words have multiple meanings in the dictionary. It never matters to them though. They have locked on to some perceived injustice and, facts be damned, they are determined to show they are correct with righteous indignation.

If we are going to accept your idea that context cannot change the meaning of a word over time, then we also have to accept that the words "nigger" and "fag" are not offensive. Afterall, "nigger" comes from the Latin word niger meaning black. And, "fag" originally meant a bundle of sticks.

So, have it your way. If you believe "classy" is offensive because the origin implied something classist, then you also need to post a thread explaining how African Americans and homosexuals shouldn't be offended when someone says "nigger" and "fag".

[Naturyl]

138. So there is no one who uses the term "classy" in a classist manner?

I beg to differ, because I've heard it used precisely that way on various TV shows (usually ones featuring wealthy snobs).

Few here may use the term in a classist way, but that doesn't mean no one does. Some do, and it makes the word potentially bothersome.

As you point out, words do have multiple meanings in the dictionary. One meaning for "classy" is "of high class" (referring to socioeconomic class). It is that definition which makes the term potentially bigoted.

[LostInAnomie]

142. But, you aren't claiming it is "potentially bigoted" in your OP.

You are claiming it is "inherently bigoted". Meaning that no matter how the word is used it is inseparable from bigotry. That is demonstrably not the case. Then you go on to imply that if we don't find the use of this "inherently bigoted" term problematic there is something wrong with us. That is sanctimonious bullshit as most people in this thread have pointed out.

[Naturyl]

148. I do think it is inseparable from bigotry.

It may not always be used with bigoted intentions, but the history of the term *and* its current use by some are bigoted in nature.

Remember the politician who used the word "niggardly?" Even though "niggardly" actually has nothing to do with racism and was not used with bigoted intentions, he was confronted about it - and rightfully so. The word is perceived to be associated with another word that is inseparable from bigotry, and that fact should (and did) raise legitimate concerns.

[LostInAnomie]

155. Don't backtrack now.

You can't claim something is "inherently bigoted" (inherently meaning: existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute) and then try to say that you don't think it is inseparable from bigotry. You also can't claim that it's bigoted when some people say it and not when others say it. Either the word "classy" is inherently bigoted, or it isn't.

And no, the politician should not have had to apologize for using the word "niggardly". It is not his fault that ignorant people reflexively took offense to a word that sounded offensive without knowing the meaning. It's like when Tony Snow used the phrase "hug the tar-baby" and a bunch of reflexively ignorant people on here erupted in outrage. People shouldn't have to apologize because other people are ignorant.

[Naturyl]

158. The term itself inherently bigoted due to its origins and etymology

But it is not always used with bigoted intentions.

This distinction is legitimate and not difficult to understand, unless one is more concerned with appearing to win the argument in front of a receptive audience.

[LostInAnomie]

159. So, your argument is that no matter what context or alternative meaning a word has...

... the origin is all that matters. That is patently ridiculous.

As pointed out up thread, if this were true and context cannot change the meaning of a word, then the words "nigger" and "fag" would remain as inoffensive as they were when they originated. You can't have it both ways. Either context can change the meaning of a word, or it can't.

So are "nigger" and "fag" bigoted words or not?

[Naturyl]

161. No, the origin is not all that matters.

The classist (bigoted) use of "classy" is still quite viable and is still used by some. The term is not strictly limited to the "new" (non-classist) meaning.

[LostInAnomie]

166. So, you admit your OP is wrong.

You admit that "classy" has a non-classist meaning, and is therefore not "inherently bigoted" as you claimed in your OP. It can be separated from it's classist origin if used in the most common context.

That would also mean that it really isn't that problematic when people use the term, wouldn't it? Especially, since you've admitted that it's only bigoted when some people use it up thread.

[Ignis]

121. Don't lump the Grammar Police in with this trainwreck.

We actually provide a valuable service. :D

[slackmaster]

250. I agree, and I consider myself to be a member of the jack-booted elite of the Grammar Police

[Ignis]

254. "My grammer is gooder"

:spray: :thumbsup:

[Gidney N Cloyd]

67. The world's a stage and each must play a part.

Are you lonesome tonight,
Do you miss me tonight?
Are you sorry we drifted apart?
Does your memory stray to a brighter sunny day
When I kissed you and called you sweetheart?
Do the chairs in your parlor seem empty and bare?
Do you gaze at your doorstep and picture me there?
Is your heart filled with pain, shall I come back again?
Tell me dear, are you lonesome tonight?

I wonder if you're lonesome tonight
You know someone said that the worlds a stage
And each must play a part.
Fate had me playing in love you as my sweet heart.
Act one was when we met, I loved you at first glance
You read your line so cleverly and never missed a cue
Then came act two, you seemed to change and you acted strange
And why I'll never know.
Honey, you lied when you said you loved me
And I had no cause to doubt you.
But I'd rather go on hearing your lies
Than go on living without you.
Now the stage is bare and Im standing there
With emptiness all around
And if you wont come back to me
Then make them bring the curtain down.

Is your heart filled with pain, shall I come back again?
Tell me dear, are you lonesome tonight?

[Shell Beau]

76. Maybe you're the one who needs to reevaluate because you think it

is a bigoted term. And even worse, you compared it to grossly bigoted terms. The word classy as a bigoted term does not even belong in the same category as n****r.

[Naturyl]

80. Try being poor and tell me that again.

I agree it isn't as offensive as the N word, but it definitely can be offensive to poor people. I know this because that is precisely why it is offensive to me.

[Shell Beau]

86. "Try being poor"... How do you know that I am not poor?

[ZombieHorde]

78. So is gyp, as in "what a gyp." Classy people don't use "gyp." nt

[imdjh]

79. So would "Stay classless." be an insult or a compliment?

[Cirque du So-What]

81. I read your 'classy' thread from last year

Looks like you didn't bring anyone around to your point of view in that one either. Maybe third time will be a charm. Maybe not. In any event, it provides an opportunity to browbeat others & call them names. Not classy at all.

[Naturyl]

90. I'm the one being brownbeaten and called names

By the entire lot of you, in case you didn't notice. No biggie, though. Your post is factually inaccurate - one poster did agree with me and thanked me for the perspective - and that poster happened to be one whose opinions I value far more than most others. I am satisfied with that.

Love how you're all taking every opportunity to use the term over and over, just to rub salt in the wounds of someone trying to suggest that the term is offensive. Very empathetic. Reminds me of what might have happened to a gay person objecting to the term "queer" 50 years ago.

Sensitivity toward the feelings of the poor is not yet on the American radar on either the right or the left. Had I posted this on Free republic or another conservative site, the response would have been no different.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

93. I disagree with you but I'm not trying to browbeat you in my post further above

In fact, I thank you for a thought-provoking thread.

[Naturyl]

105. Thanks to you also.

The general reaction was much more negative than I expected, but no biggie. I don't regret posting it and stand by my statements.

[Shell Beau]

94. But I imagine being "queer" was a little different than being

"unclassy". How you compare the two bewilders me. Someone being "unclassy" doesn't determine their rights. Being gay does. Don't compare the two.

[Naturyl]

99. Ah, so you think low socioeconomic status has no consequences?

I don't have the right to drive despite never having had a DUI or any moving violation. Why? Because I couldn't afford auto insurance at one point. There are a zillion other examples of how socioeconomic status impacts a person's life.

I'm all for equal rights for all, but if you think gay people somehow have it harder than poor people, I would have to disagree. Poor and homeless people may technically have the right to marry, but try actually doing it. In practice, there's little difference, and marriage is just one of a million things people of very low economic status often find off-limits to them.

[Shell Beau]

104. You are the one equating class to being poor.

That is why you need to re-evaluate.

[Naturyl]

107. I'm doing so because that is the orginal meaning of the term.

And it is the meaning still implied by many people, especially the wealthy and right-wingers.

[Cirque du So-What]

110. Your post is factually inaccurate as well

Seeing that I didn't call you any names, yet you claim that the entire lot of us (is that bigoted? are you CLASSifying us into a 'lot?') called you names , yet you DID call others names in this thread. Project much?

[WhollyHeretic]

84. .

[NMMNG]

85. Then explain Paris Hilton

Classy has nothing to do with wealth, and using it is not bigoted. Get a clue.

[Naturyl]

95. I have a clue.

Namely, I understand the origins of the terms "class" and "classy." You either do not, or do not care.

[Shell Beau]

120. The definition has changed. And no Paris Hilton, who has

a lovely amount of money, has NO class!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Naturyl]

129. She has no quality as a person, I agree.

And yes, that may be what you and many others mean by "class." But it's not the original meaning of the term and it's not the way everyone uses it. Many who use the term "class" are very much referring to socioeconomic implications and to that extent, the term is bigoted.

[Obamanaut]

179. I think saying a person has no quality in not only judgmental, but

low class.

[bluestateguy]

88. Eh, PC isn't really my thing

So thanks, but I'm going to just keep on using the term "classy".

Oh, and I also don't do gender neutral pronouns, hyphenated-American labels and I still have a nasty habit of calling Winter Break Christmas Break.

10.2% unemployment and two wars. Let's try to keep our eye on the ball.

[Naturyl]

92. Very white of you.

Is that offensive? Hell yes, of course it is, and everyone here knows it.

What no one seems willing to comprehend is that saying "how white of you" is absolutely no different than saying "how classy of you" except in the groups targeted. In the former case, the targeted group is non-whites, and in the latter case, it is the non-wealthy.

Pointing to the fact that most people don't use "classy" to refer to wealth doesn't change the fact that is where the term originated.

[Shell Beau]

96. Having class has nothing to do with wealth. It has to do with behavior.

[bluestateguy]

97. I've met some wealthy people before who are some of the least classy people I've ever met

Enough with the post-modernism and deconstruction.

Please. The real world is not a graduate seminar on the works of Derrida and Foucault.

[Naturyl]

100. Hate to keep copying this response

But people keep making exactly the same objection, so here it is again:

You are still correlating your idea of "class" with socioeconomic class. "I've met lots of rich people that weren't classy" is much like saying "I've met lots of blacks that weren't n----rs." Same general idea, because the bigoted assumptions are still central to the statement.

[bluestateguy]

101. You want to win the argument, fine

but I'm going to just keep on saying the things that I say whether or not the PC police are offended.

[Naturyl]

103. I'm hardly the PC police.

Political correctness and enforced control of language are not equivalent to sensitivity.

[bluestateguy]

111. Well, fortunately I'm neither politically correct nor sensitive

So that works out great.

I speak my mind and you know where I stand. You may not always agree with me, but you know where I stand.

[nini]

98. sometimes the root meaning of a word is lost over time and becomes something else

that's what I think is at issue here.

When I hear someone is classy - regardless of income - I think the person is gracious, polite and tactful. You do not have to be rich to carry those traits.

[Naturyl]

102. Indeed you don't, and many people do use the term that way nowdays.

But many others still use it in the original sense. I don't watch much TV, but I watch enough to see shows featuring rich people, where the term "class" is used with its original bigoted connotations very much intact.

[nini]

123. they are prime examples of those with no class

People like that can't buy any decent qualities - they're rotten to their cores. I know what you mean - I guess one must consider the source of the comment and its context.

[Occulus]

106. Oh, piss off n/t

[Naturyl]

112. Thanks for the invitation, but I'll pass.

Next time a member of a minority or other marginalized group (such as the lower socioeconomic classes) posts something about a term they personally find bigoted, be sure to tell them to "piss off," too. My suggestion is to start in the LGBT forum and see how it flies.

[Occulus]

170. It was a command, not an invitation

I'm gay, and we deal with this sort of judgmental bullshit ALL the time in that forum.

Try again. You amused me the first time.

[davidpdx]

108. I don't know, it depends on the context in which it's used

I guess unless I know why you are arguing this, it makes it hard for me to agree. To say a word is just totally bigoted no matter how you use it, then maybe we should deleted it from the dictionary?

What other words should we not be using??

[Naturyl]

113. Here's the details on why I feel this way

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=230x3612#3685

Hope that helps clarify, and thanks for your non-knee-jerk response. :)

[davidpdx]

132. I think the way something is said has a tendency to make people defensive

People don't always mean something in the worst possible way. I also think it's hard to force people to use or not use a word. You are talking about people from different backgrounds and upbrinings where they may have been taught to use words like that (or may take offense in your case).

I read what you said in the other post, but I would have to know exactly what was offensive that was said. The context makes quite a bit of difference.

[mia]

109. "Class has a sense of humor. It knows that a good laugh is the

best lubricant for oiling the machinery of human relations. Class never makes excuses. It takes its lumps and learns from past mistakes. Class bespeaks an aristocracy unrelated to ancestors or money. Some extremely wealthy people have no class at all, while others who are struggling to make ends meet are loaded with it. Class is real. You can't fake it. Class never tries to build itself up by tearing others down. Class is already up and need not attempt to look better by making others look worse. Everyone is comfortable with the person who has class because he is comfortable with himself. If you have class, you've got it made. If you don't have class, no matter what else you have, it won't make up for it."


-- Ann Landers

[eShirl]

122. we called that "character"

[TroglodyteScholar]

114. I read this entire thread

What a fucking waste. What a stupid "idea."

I agree with one of the earlier posters in this thread--this kind of nonsensical, sanctimonious bullshit is exactly why it's easy to see liberals as soft-headed.

Congratulations, Naturyl, you're a stereotype!

[Naturyl]

124. Super, thanks.

Congratulations on using someone's legitimate concerns about what they perceive as insensitive language to suggest that right-wing characterizations of the left are justified. As I suggested to someone else, it's amazing how DU is so profoundly embarrassed and discredited by my concerns about poor people's feelings, but is not in the least damaged by the 1000 foaming-at-the-mouth irrational screeds about anything and everything else that appear here daily to thunderous applause.

Also, extra points for the huge font. It really adds punch. I'm going to go cry into a pillow now because of the big letters.

[MrModerate]

137. No, I think the poster was saying if you appear such a wanker to us . . .

how do you appear to the wingnuts?

We're not embarrassed or discredited by your concerns (and in point of fact, it's a logical impossibility for your concerns to discredit me . . . but no matter), it's just that we think your concerns are silly -- illegitimate, in other words -- and posted in such an obnoxious and smarmy manner that your only real goal must have been to trigger responses. Which makes you a hypocrite as well.

I think they call that a hat trick: wanker, bastard, and hypocrite in a single post.

[Naturyl]

141. Yeah, I think they also call it irrelevant personal abuse.

Grats on your bullying skills.

How I appear to the wingnuts or to you is of zero concern to me. I'm sure that thanks to the flood of mockery and abuse "progressive" and empathetic souls such as yourself have bestowed on me here, this thread is already long since featured at various conservative mockery sites which cannot be mentioned. How I appear to people who are genuinely sensitive to the concerns of economically disadvantaged people is much more important - and I seriously doubt they will share your abusive views.

[MrModerate]

176. My "abuse" is far from irrelevant.

You are a utter phony, unable to post so much as five words in a string without dissembling in one way or another. People such as yourself earn the opprobrium of the communities in which they commit their sins.

You're jerking off to the response you've generated. Congrats. I've been willing to keep responding -- supporting you in your program of self abuse -- because the feeling of moral and intellectual superiority it gives me is almost worth it.

However, your entertainment value is waning. Better come up with a few new tricks. Sit up, Rover! Beg!! That's a boy!

[Lex]

118. People who use the word "classy" un-ironically should look into that. nt

[Lucian]

130. Stay classy.

:eyes:

[Naturyl]

131. Was funnier in reply #1.

Stay original. :eyes:

[Crunchy Frog]

133. It's very classy of you to post this. I appreciate it.

:)

[Naturyl]

134. Thanks.

Kudos to you and the others who have posted variations of this on attempting to rub salt in a fellow DUer's wounds with mockery. Very empathetic and progressive. Imagine if a LGBT DUer posted about finding the the phrase "queer as a 3-dollar bill" offensive and was met by a chorus of people saying "haha, this thread is queer as a 3 dollar bill!" How do you suppose that would that go over?

Amazing, lol. I expected a negative response to this thread, but I never dreamed it would devolve into the kind of mockery, personal abuse, and bullying that actually took place. Some people here apparently imagine I have embarrassed DU with this thread. In my view, DU has embarrassed itself in the eyes of anyone who genuinely values the concerns of poor people.

I feel better and better about having created this thread, as I think it very effectively exposes an ugly side of DU several other poverty advocates have been pointing to for a long time.

[Crunchy Frog]

152. You're very welcome. Have a lovely Thanksgiving.

:hi:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

244. Side note: Your froglets are super super cute!

:D

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

136. I guess according to you that "noble" would be an offensive adjective as well. Along with "majestic"

"imperial" and "aristocratic".

I'm really sorry, but your OP is sad, illogical, dogmatic and just plain dumb (in my opinion). It's the linguisitc equivalent of Victorians putting stockings on piano legs for fear of offending.

[Rabrrrrrr]

140. Saing asshole things like "If you don't know why" is a classist rubric of high assholery

as well.

Whether one establishes oneself into the "higher" class a matter of income, or as a matter of social justice purity, it's still classism.]


A person with class explains him or herself, and doesn't pull out bullshit like "You're too dumb to know the answer, so I won't give it" or "Only those who are in my secret society of The Pure will understand what the answer is, so I won't explain it."

Classist bullshit assholery is what that is.

[Naturyl]

143. More personal abuse.

Had you simply asked what the heck I meant by my OP, I would have gladly explained that the details are here:

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=230x3612

But since a lynching is apparently in progress, I guess you couldn't resist joining the bandwagon to belittle and ridicule me for my sincere concerns about bigotry against poor people. Mob-mentality bullying FTW.

[REP]

145. That last nail is always a bitch, isn't it?

Have fun, though, trying to nail yourself to that cross of Classy.

[Rabrrrrrr]

146. You set up the condition in which if I had to ask, then I was a classist bigoted prick.

So don't bitch at me for pointing out the fact that you put people in a no-win position with your bigoted, classist philosophy.

[PVnRT]

182. Are you done being up on the cross? We need the wood.

[pipi_k]

202. Not quite how I would have put it myself, but...

the sentiment is the same.

I absolutely despise it when someone does something like that..."Well, if you don't know WHY, then I'm not going to tell you!!!"


My problem with that strategy has its roots many years ago in my childhood when my mother would say nearly the same thing to us kids when she would tell us to do something or not do something...

it wasn't until many years later I figured out that she had no rhyme or reason for saying what she did, and no answers either.

So the best way out of the situation...when talking to a kid...was the old "Because I said so!!! bullshit.

yeah, good reason, ma... nice teaching moment, there.... :eyes:

[REP]

144. Put down the pipe

A lot of people have had really "deep" ideas while smoking pot that turned out to be shallow and silly. The OP is an example.

[Naturyl]

151. I don't smoke pot.

Please keep your projections to yourself.

[REP]

154. This came after sober reflection??

You must be fun at parties.

[HuckleB]

147. Language is funny that way.

And life is too short.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

149. I think you should look into better hobbies.

[TCJ70]

150. Having read your responses, you're wrong.

I'll give you an example from recent news. Kanye west interrupting Taylor Swift at the VMA's. A lot of people probably looked at that and rolled their eyes while saying, "That was classy." The term is used in that context is referring to a specific behavior. It has nothing to do with anyones economic status, and everything to do with their knowledge of social graces...unless you're implying that all poor people are rude and ignorant...

[Naturyl]

153. I acknowledged multiple times that the term is often used in that way

It doesn't change the fact that the origin of the term involves bigotry and that its current use in some cases also involves bigotry. Not in the example you gave, but in other cases - such as wealthy people who refer to the economically disadvantaged as "low-class."

This is getting ridiculous. Not one person seems capable of acknowledging these simple points. Oh well.

[TCJ70]

156. Your OP states that the word is laced with bigotry...

...not that it is SOMETIMES used with bigotry. Maybe that's where your problem is stemming from. The origin of a word doesn't determine where it ends up, languages change.

I'd also say there's a difference between "low-class" and "classy". No one would ever say, "low-classy".

[Freddie Stubbs]

157. Being obsessed with class is a low-class trait

[proteus_lives]

160. I'll keep using it.

I often say it to people as I'm leaving, "Stay classy folks!"

Making classy mountains out of classy molehills.

[Naturyl]

162. The Anchorman reference is funny and harmless.

I'm just asking people to think about other aspects of the term, which do exist.

[annarbor]

165. Respectfully...

It appeared that you weren't "asking" us to think about other aspects of the term. You appeared to "demand" that we accept your view, and only your view of the term. I don't see where you've achieved much in that regard...

Ann Arbor

[JackDragna]

167. It may have been bigoted..

but I'm still going to use it because of its wide variety of non-bigoted applications. To me, "classy" has evolved into something beyond making a class distinction.

[Confusious]

168. Any other words we can't say

Because they are bigoted? Oh brother. :eyes:

Do you have anything else to do with your life? maybe a hobby would be good. :crazy:

[Iggo]

177. Whaddaya mean "oh brother"?

Sounds inherently sexist to me!

If you don't know, you better ax someone.

:eyes:

[Oeditpus Rex]

171. Class? Class?

SHUT UUUUUUUUUUUUUP!!









Thank you.









(For the pop-culturally deprived: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhG__-Ql8_I )

[Occulus]

172. "Go into the GLBT forum and say that"

:P

[Obamanaut]

173. I think it is low class to suggest people aren't able to recognize

bigoted terms.

edited to add 'unrec'

[DainBramaged]

174. Every word on DU is bigoted, every law is anti-gun

oh the inhumanity of soda dispensers...............


Life, and how better to spend ones time.............


:eyes:

[DailyGrind51]

181. Too much time on your hands?

It looks like 35,000 more troops will be sent into the meat grinder. Jobs are being lost by the thousand, "health care reform" is becoming a welfare program for insurance companies, and you concern yourself with the the term "classy"?

[PVnRT]

183. I'm glad we've solved all other societal issues first

Now we can worry about obscure references that may or may not be offensive to a small group of people in some undisclosed place.

[pipi_k]

185. Oh good grief

I've known people of high socioeconomic status who were VERY "unclassy". They were rude, arrogant, snarky boors with no respect for themselves or other people.


And then I've known people of relatively low socioeconomic status who had LOTS of "class". What made them classy...manners. Respect for themselves and others.


The term "classy" has nothing...absolutely nothing...to do with socioeconomic status.

If you want to believe it does, then go right ahead. Don't use it.

Just be classy respectful enough not to accuse those who do use it of being "bigoted".

[snooper2]

186. This thread is classy...

or is that classic :rofl:

[AngryAmish]

187. We are laughing at you.

[montanto]

188. The fact that you are peevish

doesn't make "class" or "classy" inherently bigoted. Nope. But hey, I respect your right to not like a word. I personally hate the term "man up." I think its disrespectful to women, but I know that's just my kinky opinion. Carry on.

[Nye Bevan]

190. Wow- 188 replies and not one of them agreeing with the OP!

Is this a record?

[Renew Deal]

193. Not even close

Did you see this? It's from a couple days ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7068135&mesg_id=7068135

[Iggo]

200. I thought that one was satire or something.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

243. Wow. I guess my Thanksgiving menu would make everyone angry.

I'm having Tofurkey. Hubby and family's having Turducken.

[Shell Beau]

195. It may be, and instead of the OP reflecting on her post, she/he

seems to dig a deeper hole. It first started with people must have a problem if they don't see it as a bigoted term to it can have other meanings but is still as bad as saying the n word or f****t. :eyes:

[CreekDog]

191. The OP is right

"Classy" is clearly biased against hobos and people without irons and/or fashion sense. :thumbsdown:

[Renew Deal]

192. How about you tell us?

Is "classless also racist?" Ask yourself.

[GoneOffShore]

194. Not a classy thread

Get over yourself.

[BoneDaddy]

196. REally?

Gods I am so sick of the freaking word police. I really don't think it is a problem. Time to get a life.

[jdp349]

199. Everything has been said already

so I'll just insult you.

you're dumb.

[TZ]

201. FYI-Bigot is an inheritedly bigoted word.

:rofl: What a classy and soon to be CLASSIC thread this is! :rofl:

[Dr. Strange]

204. Actually, bigot is an inherently classy term.

I can just feel the time-space continuum starting to fold in on itself.

[yurbud]

205. You make this forum look stupid with a post like this.

[yurbud]

206. Have you EVER met a poor person who was offended by this or took it in the sense you mean?

[yurbud]

207. Have you EVER met a poor person who was offended by this or took it in the sense you mean?

[ieoeja]

208. Your original post is inherently bigoted.

You don't say it in the original post, but you do in later posts equate classy with wealth. I know you mean that you believe other people equate classy with wealth, but so far you are the ONLY person in this thread who seems to be making that assumption.

To 99 44/100th % of Americans, Zsa Zsa Gabor has no class. Lots of wealth, but no class. While some dirt-poor fellow who helps out a wealthy neighbor in a time of need is the epitome of class.

Yes, Virginia, there are bores in America. In particular, among the Washington punditry (see: Clintons, Hillbillies, White House Silver). But they are such a teensy-weeny fraction of the American populace, that to use THEIR definition of classy is silly.

[pipi_k]

217. Thank you!!!!

It's also disgustingly arrogant to claim, as the OP has, that nobody else here seems to understand how "inherently bigoted" the term is.

Like the rest of us are all a bunch of mentally deficient assholes who don't give a shit about "sensitivity", but this one person is going to be our self appointed Savior.

Good god, I've never been able to figure that out...why one person thinks it's his or her "job" to educate the filthy masses. Like a couple of others upthread have pointed out...this didn't start out as a "let's discuss this and come to some kind of conclusion"...

This whole thread started out as "I'm RIGHT and you are all WRONG"

IMO, that's not a sign of someone wanting to discuss...to me, that means a person is looking to either be a martyr: "Wah...you're all picking on me!!!!!" or, the person actually thinks he or she is the Guru on the Mountaintop.

either option stinks.

[Confusious]

253. We should all be thankful she lowers herself enough

to educate us filthy masses! :sarcasm:

[LanternWaste]

209. Less food for thought, and more like... Cheetos.

I imagine you would then warrant "gentleman" a bigoted term also, as its etymology too implies genteel, land-owning males... or "lady" whose woman whose etymology implies the manners and sensibilities befit for a female of high rank in society.

Less food for thought, and more like... Cheetos.

[pipi_k]

210. OK so having read through this entire thread

After posting a couple of times first, I've come to some conclusions...


We're all just too stupid/ignorant/obtuse for the likes of you because we just "don't get it". Because you said so.


It is inherently impossible for words to evolve from their beginnings and take on a relatively benign meaning. Because you said so.


Anyone who persists in using the word "classy" in reference to someone else's general manners is insensitive. Because you said so.


You are right and we're all wrong. Because you said so.

Trailer parks and housing developments (where poor people might live?) are festering boils on the ass of Society. Because you've never heard them described as being "classy".



suggestion:

Hobbies. They're your friends.

[JohnnyBoots]

211. So is the term, 'Salt of the Earth' bigoted against wealthy people?

Seems using your logic it is. How dare people extoll the virtues of blue collar toughness, loyalty and work ethic!

[WI_DEM]

213. Silly

If you don't know why that is the case, perhaps you should find out why you don't know.

[truebrit71]

215. Stay Classy!

:eyes:

[fascisthunter]

216. I'm poor and I have "class"

am I a self-hating bigot too?! Of just an ignorant poor person? Unbelieveable...

[Throd]

219. Superlatives are inherently bigoted terms that should never be used by any fair minded person.

I for one wholeheartedly embrace your great grey world.

[slackmaster]

220. Another vote for "Stay classy, Naturyl"

:nuke:

[whistler162]

223. So should we say "is it trailertrashless" instead?

by the way if YOU claim something is bigoted YOU have to back it up with facts not just a flippant wave of your hand and a "do your own research comment".

Some interesting links on "being classy" -

http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Classy
http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/classy

[spiritual_gunfighter]

224. Thank you for the laugh

I needed it.

[bobbolink]

227. You gotta love it when people are willfully obtuse, eh?

You see, this just points up what I have been saying all along..... now that it's incorrect to be bigoted in other ways, poor folk are fair game.

Here's what I'm doing with this.... last year, it took me two and one-half hours to register to vote. It took a long time for me to vote... lots of hoops to jump through. Since "progressives" don't give a shit about me or my life, I just won't make the effort from now on.

And you know this is going to get the same hatred reponses that your gallant effort got.

I'm bookmarking this, and next November, when DUers are crying for votes, I will point to this as one of the reasons they are falling behind.

[slackmaster]

231. My dad grew up dirt poor. He was the classiest person I have ever known.

Lots of poor people are classy. Classiness has nothing to do with socioeconomic class. Classiness is all about how you treat other people, and nothing else.

[bobbolink]

233. And gay is all about being cheerful and sunny.

Dump the defensiveness.

[slackmaster]

235. You really don't get it, do you?

Some of the most classless people I have met happen to be wealthy. Classiness has nothing to do with income or personal net worth. It's not about having polished manners or how one dresses either.

Classiness is about being kind and generous and helpful and forgiving and patient. It's about being a gracious loser and a humble winner.

[bobbolink]

236. HAHAHAHHAHAHAA!

*I* don't get it.

You got that RW method down really well..... project your own qualities onto your chosen opponents.

We feminists took all this shite years ago, about how we shouldn't be so "sensitive" about being called "chicks", etc.

All you "sensitive" "progressives" object to being asked not to use terms like "retard" and "off your meds".

Keep projecting all that helpful and kind attitude! We get the picture... loud and clear!

[slackmaster]

241. Your response has no class

:hi:

[tammywammy]

252. + 1

"Classiness has nothing to do with socioeconomic class."

[GoneOffShore]

239. And your post is one of the more obtuse I've seen on this thread.

[bobbolink]

240. Thank you. Given the hatefulness displayed here, that is a high compliment.

[GoneOffShore]

245. You forgot the sarcasm smiley.

I wasn't being nice.

[bridgit]

228. The same thing was said about 'articulate', which trends into the face of those whose endeavor it is

to be-so-thus in their dealings. There is a likelihood as well that by deploying the term "bigoted" and instead, as the great over-arching splitting maul that it is; one preemptively relegates terms such as 'classy' 'intelligent' 'articulate' to only a segment of society able to shoulder and absorb their message

Though I'll give you this: with words having a specific gravity not unlike a rock you can bounce off someone's head...what should the word have been?

[rucky]

232. I wish I could take back my unrec.

This thread belongs on the Greatest Page

[GoneOffShore]

237. Only because it's a great example of "teh stupid" at it's worst.

The OP and the some of the responses are DUZY material.

[Political Heretic]

238. Nice. "Classy" means not "low(er) class"

Don't want to be associated with that filth, now do we! :sarcasm:

At the same time, hardly anyone means it that way.

So... where does that leave us?

One group of people remind us of the origin of this term. Another group of people say get over it, because the term has lost all or most of that meaning and isn't a big deal.

Well what about FireMAN, policeMAN, CongressMAN, and so forth? I note that these words have become socially antiquated in favor of ones that are gender neutral. Is that a bad thing?

People say "its no big deal" - well depending on what you compare it to, of course its no big deal. Could we be more precise? Certainly.

[boppers]

247. Etymology FAIL

What does the division term defining roman tax brackets have to do with modern usage?

[R. P. McMurphy]

248. Nonsense. n/t

[DefenseLawyer]

255. N.C.A.A.

No Class At All

[Quantess]

256. Your thread needs a big scoop of this: