Bull

[TheBigotBasher]

A Kentucky census worker found naked, bound with duct tape and hanging from a tree with "fed" scrawled on his chest killed himself but staged his death to make it look like a homicide, authorities said Tuesday.

Bill Sparkman, 51, was found Sept. 12 near a cemetery in a heavily wooded area of southeastern Kentucky. A man who found the body in the Daniel Boone National Forest has said Sparkman also was gagged and had an identification badge taped to his neck.

Authorities said Sparkman alone manipulated the scene to conceal a suicide. Police said he had talked with others about ending his life, though authorities did not say specifically who in a news release.

So right, nothing to see here. Someone can tie themselves up, scrawl fed on their chest and hang themselves. All perfectly simple insurance scam. Yeah right.

[babylonsister]

1. Unreal. If it was so cut and dried, what took them so long? And

unidentifed sources? :eyes:

[cali]

2. I don't think it's necessarily bull. In order to believe that it's a conspiracy

to cover up homicide, you have to believe that not only are local and state law enforcement agents burying the truth but that the feds and those who conducted the post-mortum, are too. And what's the motive for all these people to do so?

[TheBigotBasher]

4. There is a national census that needs doing...

there is no support in the community to out any killer, the Feds are not especially welcome there, so it is either an unsolved crime, which will not exactly enthuse census workers there, or it is a suicide.

[Ishka Kibble]

5. Why do people jump to conclusions?

They seem to do it without any information. They just take that leap, without any contradictory evidence, direct or not, and accuse the authorities of lying and covering up.

Strikes me as kind of kneejerk stupid.

This case was closely and carefully investigated by a variety of organizations - http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/2009/pr11_24_09.htm - who had absolutely no vested interest that can be discerned in lying about how a sad man died.

Now, he has left behind an adopted son who didn't live with him, who's still in his teens, and who, when I read about the boy a couple of months ago, had exactly $16 to his name. The insurance business makes sense, in light of the incontestability clauses, and his discussions of suicide with others all point to this poor man trying to get around the rules and take care, financially, of the boy he'd adopted.

This happens more than you might suspect. The shame and stigma attached to the auto-erotic asphyxiation exercises are still huge, and families do not want that information made public. It's just how David Carradine died. Only, in this Sparkman case, I think he was determined to end his life - Carradine just wanted to get off.

I'd like to know the results of Mr. Sparkman's toxicology tests.

They took a long time, all the agencies investigating this death, and that speaks well to the matter, I think.

[Barack_America]

14. If you honestly think the State Police have no vested interest in such a case....

...well, then I don't know what to say.

If they didn't have a vested interest in it, they wouldn't have investigated it, nor would have the FBI.

[Ishka Kibble]

16. I honestly do not know what "vested interest" you speak of.

Are you in possession of some kind of information about the case that's not been made public? Do you know something that others don't? Were you a friend of Mr. Sparkman's, or did you know people who knew him?

Otherwise, you're just pulling this out of thin air, correct? A kneejerk reaction against the police, State and local, the FBI, and all who investigated this case for over two months.

Exactly what "vested interest" would they all have to concoct and then go ahead with such a conspiracy? I should think that would be a rather risky thing to do, but something very great must have been at stake for them to have done it. What was that, do you think, that would cause these professional investigators and law enforcement officials to risk their livelihoods, their freedom, and their reputations on making this case out to be something that it was not.

So, please, help me to understand what I don't understand. Thank you.

[TheBigotBasher]

19. The police had no vested interest

in pushing a certain story DU called BULL on.



Many Police Authorities seem to forget - news coverage is no longer just 2 minutes on cable.

[Ishka Kibble]

20. So you extrapolate from a crazy girl's actions here?

If this girl did that stupid thing, and was taken seriously for a few hours -an abundance of caution, I'd say - that means what in terms of the Sparkman case?

I honestly don't understand what "vested interest" means here.

[Barack_America]

21. Well, let's look at a few things.

1. What if the Census were canceled in that area? What would that mean for local law enforcement funding, for one?

2. These agencies all cooperate in a massive operation to root out drug production in the area. What if, for some reason, an investigation into this case as murder would interfere with a drug sting or prosecution?

3. And then there's just the image of an already embattled region. It's not hard to imagine why law enforcement officials familiar with the area might feel protective of it.

It doesn't have to be a huge conspiracy, there are a number of scenarios one could imagine where law enforcement officials would find making this case just go away to be in the best interests of the citizens they serve. Bias exists in every investigative field and it can always be tempting. Bias doesn't have to be deliberate in order to affect the way you see and interpret the evidence in front of you.

[Ishka Kibble]

22. I don't know what to do with theories that begin with "What if?"

That's so open-ended, anything is possible, and we both know that the world isn't quite that wide open.

If you are familiar with how drug producers work, the last thing they want is any kind of publicity. An interloper, whether by design or by accident, would have been warned away, not murdered and left in a public place. The last thing dope folks want is publicity.

I don't know what you mean by "an already embattled region." If you're suggesting that that part of Kentucky is more prone to murdering Federal workers, I'd like to see your statistics on that one. It smacks of the worst kind of stereotyping and bigotry. To impugn the integrity of any group, be it law enforcement, a teachers' union, a group of firefighters, or a convent full of nuns is the kind of groupthink that suggests no hard knowledge, no factual information - just that vague "feeling" that is pretty much how most people fall prey to the kind of witless characterization about people who are absolutely unknown to the individual making the baseless allegations.

So you believe that Mr. Sparkman was murdered, and all the agencies and individuals involved in this case have banded together to label it a suicide - with very compelling and obvious evidence that it was, in fact, a suicide - so as to "make the case go away ... in the best interests of the citizens they serve"?

How does conspiring to let a known murderer go free possibly be "in the best interests of the citizens they serve"?

You're going to have to dig deep in your Fiction bag to find out how you came up with this one, I think.

[Barack_America]

23. Um, I think that's common for most theories.

To begin with "what if?" Being unsupported by hard evidence is what makes them theories, or possibilities.

What's your impression of rural KY and the people who live there? What sorts of stereotypes come to mind? That's what I mean by "embattled".

I believe that Sparkman may have been murdered or he may have committed suicide. I believe that it word have been easier for many of the law enforcement agencies involved for this to be a suicide. And I believe that bias, even when subconscious, can affect the way people interpret data.

Bottom line, I am not convinced by the findings they released today. I would like to see more evidence, particularly recreation of the crime scene to demonstrate that a person is capable of doing what Sparkman was determined to be capable of.

[Ishka Kibble]

24. There's a book you would find enlightening.

It's a classic in the field, suitable for the layperson, and a compelling read.

http://www.amazon.com/Autoerotic-Asphyxiation-Forensic-Medical-Aspects/dp/1587366045/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259100742&sr=1-1

I daresay you might view this Sparkman matter quite differently after you read it, but that's pure and complete speculation on my part. I have a copy on my bookshelf, but I really don't want to read it again. It is, though, a book that would answer a lot of your questions.

[Barack_America]

25. According to authorities, he committed suicide because of debt.

Not to get off.

Do you disagree with their findings?

[Ishka Kibble]

28. I didn't read anything about debt.

I did, though, read that he'd recently taken out a couple of life insurance policies, face value totaling something like $600,000, but both with an incontestability clause, presumably of two years' duration. Since Mr. Sparkman had not been successful financially, it may be that he saw this as a way to leave a legacy of some heft for his son.

How he, in cancer treatment, was able to qualify for life insurance is an interesting part of the puzzle. He must have paid through the nose for those premiums. But, if he thought he could fool the investigators by making his suicide look like a murder, he might have believed - it's been done thousands of times before - that he could get away with it, and his son would have a good inheritance.

I never claimed that he strung himself up to "get off" - quite the contrary, if you'd read my postings carefully. I'm sure the last thing on Mr. Sparkman's mind was sexual gratification.

So, since I know nothing of his debt, I neither agree nor disagree.

What did you think of that book I suggested?

[Barack_America]

30. The book on Autoerotic Asphyxiation?

I found it likely not relevant to this case.

I agree with the investigators on that.

[Ishka Kibble]

31. You read it?

So you found it "not relevant to this case"?

Why did you conclude that, having read the book?

[me b zola]

3. The authorities have been wanting to make this a suicide from the beginning

Perhaps if they weren't so eager to label his death a suicide from the beginning, I wouldn't be joining you in calling bs.

[cherokeeprogressive]

6. Some facts in the story...

No DNA found at the scene other than Sparkman's. His knees were only six inches off of the ground (he could have stood up). The letters on his chest were written from the bottom up, not from the top down like nearly anyone else would have written them (he was looking down when he wrote them). His hands were bound, but loosely, allowing him to move them shoulder-width apart.

I don't see a conspiracy to cover up any type of homicide.

[no limit]

8. We dont take too kindly to them facts round' here...ok?

[Barack_America]

12. Thanks for reciting the conclusions. Care to actually think about them?

How long could you stand tied to a tree before slumping?

How would you write on your chest? Top down or bottom up?

Was the duct tape around his wrist bearing weight? Was it stretched or placed with intentional slack?

[MattBaggins]

26. The part of his feet being near the ground does not support suicide claim

It is an argument against it. Have they released info on the state of his neck? Did he just asphyxiate or did he perhaps jump from the tree limb?

I just don't buy that a person could over come the bodies fight for self preservation and lift their knees. You couldn't drown yourself in a bowl so I fail to see how the panic of losing air wouldn't prompt a person to drop their feet and stand up.

[Ishka Kibble]

29. I disagree.

A woman I know hanged herself by tying one end of a plastic grocery bag around her neck and the other end around the doorknob of a kitchen door. She succeeded.

Prisoners in jail or penitentiaries do it that way all the time - the will to die is very often stronger than the will to live. It's hard for someone not lost in the depths of despair to understand that.

[Echo In Light]

7. As usual, don't believe your lying eyes

[no limit]

9. My eyes tell me the earth is flat. Clearly anyone that claims otherwise is in on a conspiracy

[Echo In Light]

10. Not exactly what I was driving at ... but feel free to roll with it!

[cali]

11. What did your eyes witness? Nothing, that's what.

[kctim]

13. Great

a "death panels" topic.

[Barack_America]

15. Let's hear about the debt. How much was it?

Let's get the name of the "friend" Sparkman supposedly confessed to.

Most importantly, let's have someone recreate the scene.

[Dreamer Tatum]

17. I'm sorry, what's at stake here? I'm not seeing the foreboding sense of doom nt

[TicketyBoo]

18. This much I'll say…

I would not care to be the next census taker in that neck of the woods.

Nope.

[TheBigotBasher]

27. However

the suicide story will lessen any fears.