Just for discussion about letting undocumented workers have health

[Cleita]

insurance, let me ask you a question.

If you saw an undocumented worker being murdered by, let's say his boss who is hiring him illegally, does that mean that this undocumented worker should not have the police investigate his murder and prosecute his murderer because he's not working here legally? So how can we say that we can deny these people health care when they need it and pay for it themselves? I don't understand the thinking going on here.

The same goes for denying women reproductive health care that includes safe therapeutic abortions if that is what is called for. It's separating out people by class and gender and IMHO is unconstitutional.

[paulsby]

1. no, it's not

being an "undocumented worker" is not a condition of class or gender. it is evidence that they entered the country illegally and.or stayed beyond their visa requirements

if i did the same in a foreign country, i most certainly would not expect govt. benefits from them.

i have a friend who got rejected at the canada border because he had a dui. if he snuck across the border, and then got sick, should the canadian govt. pay for his health care?

[Cleita]

2. Actually I believe the Canadians would give him health care.

They probably would charge him, but that's what I'm talking about. How can you deny health care to someone who is willing to pay for it regardless of their legal status?

[paulsby]

4. if they charged him

then that's similar to the US situation. any person can get emergency care in the US, but they will be billed.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

6. and then they don't pay because they cannot afford to.

So that leaves you and me the tax payer on the hook.

Single payer- elimination of for profit health insurance is truly the only way.

[paulsby]

8. i agree

but that's tangential to the point made. but fwiw, i am against any single payer plan that ELIMINATES for profit insurance. many countries have single payer, but people still have the option of buying stuff on a private market. iirc, france has that option.

[Cleita]

11. If you don't eliminate the private insurers then it's not single payer.

Also, France does eliminate the insurers covering the same basic health care that is covered by the government. Anything else can be covered by private insurance depending on your ability to pay.

[paulsby]

13. ok

i just think that people should ALSO be able to buy supplemental health insurance as an option.

i am for single payer, though. i don't think those are inconsisten. everybody is automatically covered by a govt. run plan(well every citizen). that's single payer. but people who want to buy supplementary insurance shoudl ahve that option. fwiw, my employer pays for us to have a very good cadillac plan.

[Cleita]

15. That now is the French system. n/t

[paulsby]

18. tres bein nt

[LibDemAlways]

It's in the pubic interest to make sure that everyone who is

here - regardless of immigration status- has access to treatment, and I'm not talking about showing up in an emergency room or waiting in line for hours at the occasional free clinic. It's dangerous and stupid to deny healthcare to anybody.

I would bet closed minds would be changed if a person with no insurance who couldn't afford treatment infected them or their loved ones with tb or some other disease. Refusing some people access to health care ultimately endangers everybody. Germs don't care whether or not a person is insured.

[Cleita]

7. This has always been my argument about access to universal health care

and homelessness. Even if you don't have enough compassion to feel that everyone should have health care and adequate housing, do you really want yourself and your family infected with diseases that can be contained with proper health care, nutrition and sanitary housing? Back in Dicken's day tuberculosis, typhoid and any number of diseases were spread because of mal-nutrition, crowded living conditions, and other results of the industrial revolution. Those diseases didn't care how much money you had or how much privilege. Do we want to return to those conditions?

[LibDemAlways]

22. It's really a common sense argument. I'm surprised

the politicians don't hammer on it.

If anything is going to make a person stop and reassess, it's the knowledge that that their own well being or that of their family could be threatened. Who wants to catch a contagious disease because someone else couldn't get health care?

[ItNerd4life]

3. What is an undocumented worker?

They are called illegal immigrants for a reason. They are illegal. That is what the rest of the world calls them also.

Yes, they would receive healthcare, just like any criminal would. Criminals after receiving healthcare are tried for their crimes.

[Cleita]

5. An undocumented worker is one who doesn't have a work permit.

There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. They cross the border illegally and probably work without a work permit. But there is no law that says while they are here that they are illegal. It's just a racist term invented to dehumanize a segment of humanity.

[LWolf]

9. I don't have a problem with undocumented workers,

except that I would like them to be documented, and I'd like them to receive the same wage a documented worker does.

Document them all.

As a supporter of universal health care, I define "universal" as "universal:" EVERYONE, regardless of documentation.

[Cleita]

10. We need to loosen handing out the work permits.

Regardless of the propaganda you hear, they are needed to bring in harvests and they should have legal standing to stand up to employers for better wages and working conditions. I don't think it would be that hard to figure out a way.

[LWolf]

17. I agree. nt

[EFerrari]

12. It's a public health issue, not a fake Republican outrage issue.

Most undocumented workers avoid contact with officialdom. Getting them in for immunizations and to get antibiotics is the problem, not the other way around, imho.

[Cleita]

14. So is homelessness.

Both are public health issue. Since the eighties when we first started seeing homelessness, we have been seeing a rise in tuberculosis and other diseases that were almost wiped out by the sixties. If we keep undocumented immigrants from getting health care pandemics could get worse than they already are.

[EFerrari]

19. Agreed. n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

16. +1

I don't understand drawing the line in the sand over access to health care especially since those who are working are willing to pay for it just like they pay for rent and food.

[EFerrari]

20. It's a matter of education. As in, would you want your cleaner or your gardener

or your mechanic or the man who loads your purchases from the warehouse or the lady who works in the hospital laundry to be too afraid to get immunized or to get an antibiotic?

What about the dishwashers in your favorite restaurant? Or the janitor at your kids' school or the kid who gathers eggs for your farm fresh outlet? Do you like raw vegetables?

The list goes on and on.

[Cleita]

21. ...

:kick: