What is "loitering and prowling"?

[imdjh]

I keep seeing these guys in the mugshots charged with "loitering and prowling". Now, of course I know what loitering and prowling are, and we all know it when we see it, but I am wondering how it's quantified for government application. Lately judges have been demanding an "articulable description" of a suspicious behavior. So while you and I and any fool including the judge know what shifty looks like, what criminal awaiting victim looks like, what a problem which will happen soon looks like, if we can't articulate it in court without getting the No-No Buzzer, then the judges say we didn't have a reason to suspect the POS of being a POS.

So, can anyone tell me what a cop would say when asked to "articulate" what constitutes loitering and prowling?

[Warpy]

1. If it looks like some punk is casing your house

or business for a future robbery, that's loitering and prowling. Loitering would be hanging around on the street and noting what time everybody leaves for work and gets home at night. Prowling would be checking out the actual property for ways to get in.

That's one definition.

[MineralMan]

2. Loitering laws have long been used to jail

"undesirables." I suppose the prowling thing could also be used in the same way. When used that way, they are, and should be, unjust laws.

As for what the cop would say, I'm sure they have a little book full of effective things to say when they don't really have a case.

[imdjh]

6. That's the thing. "Well, you honor, I saw this guy who looked like Eminem, hanging out...

..... with no apparent purpose or destination, so I stopped and interrogated him. That's when I found out that he had a gram of marijuana in his pocket."


I wasn't actually working towards the drug angle, but another fascinating part of this mugshot hobby are the people charged with possession of marijuana, but there is no charge which would explain why a cop would know they had pot on them.

[slackmaster]

3. A prowler is a potential thief who moves around

A loiterer is a well-disciplined potential thief.

(spelling corrected)

[havocmom]

9. or a cop doing surveillance

;)

[Cirque du So-What]

11. Sounds like the criteria

by which US troops identified potential Viet Cong in Full Metal Jacket: 'If they run, they're VC. If they stand still, they're well-disciplined VC.'

[slackmaster]

13. You get a biscuit!

[backscatter712]

22. Didn't the same guy say...

when asked "How can you shoot women and children?"

"Easy... You just don't lead them as much!"

[SteppingRazor]

4. Slightly off topic question: Why are you paging through mugshots all the time?

;)


Seriously, though, I think loitering and prowling is absolutely ridiculous. It's a thought crime. Trespassing, on the other hand, is a perfectly legitimate reason to arrest someone.

[imdjh]

8. I am fascinated by them. It's like playing a bus game on a new level.

My sister and I used to ride the bus and make up stories about someone else on the bus or streetcar. Often it would be a sordid tale of his crimes and path through life. Now, with the mugshots online, you get more information to work with, and the game is more complex.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. It means you're not allowed to congregate out there without permission

It's a way to keep people from protesting the powers that be.

However, now that we all live in suburbia, it means that the homeless cannot just roam. They must disappear from the planet altogether.

[monmouth]

7. Many of these people are homeless also....No where to go...n/t

[dalaigh lllama]

10. Well, I don't know that we all know it when we see it

10:10 P.M. Suspicious people were reportedly doing something with flashlights by the side of North 5th Street in Custer. A deputy checked and found the people were not suspicious, but merely Canadian. The out-of-towners were enjoying an evening stroll.

http://failblog.org/2009/11/20/suspicious-fail/

[SOS]

12. "Standing" and "walking"

Depending on who (and where) you are.

Re: "You and I know what shifty looks like":

About a year ago I was walking my dog at 11pm down a dark Manhattan side street.
Coming towards me were 5 teenagers, all drinking beer. Baggy pants, hoodies.
It was too dark to really see them. I just caught glimpses under a street light.
They stopped. Three were blocking my way, two were leaning against the wall of a building.
As I got within a few feet, one reached into his pocket. I said to myself "Here we go".

The polite young fellow pulled out a camera and asked me to take a picture of them.

They lined up against a graffiti-covered wall and I took a flash photo. I told them it would make a great album cover.
They laughed, offered me a beer and I was on my way.

Sometimes "criminal awaiting victim" isn't what it appears.

[imdjh]

15. Most of us have that particular PSA in our experience, but we also know that it's better safe than..

... sorry, and that our experiences equip us to evaluate potentially dangerous situations. We didn't make it to the top of the food chain by talking ourselves out of our better judgement.

[paulsby]

14. depends on the state statutes

we have a "loitering for the purposes of prostitution" charge in our penal code. essentially you need a pattern of behavior, like repeatedly flagging down cars, in a known area of prostitution, etc. etc.

here is yakima's city statute, as an example:

A. It is unlawful for anyone to loiter in or near any thoroughfare or place open to the public in a manner and under circumstances manifesting the purpose of inducing, enticing, soliciting or procuring another to commit an act of prostitution. Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such purpose is manifested are: that such person is a known prostitute or panderer, repeatedly beckons to, stops or attempts to stop, or engages male passerby in conversation, or repeatedly stops or attempts to stop motor vehicle operators by hailing, waving of arms or by any other bodily gesture. No arrest shall be made for a violation of this section unless the arresting officer first affords such person an opportunity to explain such conduct, and no one shall be convicted of violating this section if it appears at trial that the explanation given was true and disclosed a lawful purpose.

B. For the purpose of this section, "known prostitute or panderer" includes, but is not limited to, a person who, within one year previous to the date of arrest for violation of this section, has within the knowledge of the arresting officer been convicted of or forfeited bail for violating any ordinance of the city of Yakima or any law of any other jurisdiction defining or punishing acts of engaging in, or offering or agreeing to engage in, sexual conduct with another person in return for a fee.

C. Loitering for the purpose of prostitution is a misdemeanor. (Ord. 98-3 § 42, 1998: Ord. 94-22 § 21, 1994: Ord. 1980 § 1, 1976).

[imdjh]

17. We have an interesting law I was unaware of until recently: illegal to panhandle after dark.

I was going to the Shell station the other evening, and the panhandler who works that corner suddenly packed up his stuff in his backpack, and started walking (towards a fairly decent residential area). It was clear, that it was quitting time. I thought this was funny actually. I wondered if he kept regular hours. So about a week later I was in the same area, where my Oriental grocery store is, at about the same time and there he is packing up and walking home. Come to find out there is a law against panhandling after dark, which is a good thing because after dark the line between panhandling and threatening can get a little fuzzier with those people for whom it's already fuzzy.

[paulsby]

18. that's interesting

iirc, our state supreme court has ruled that panhandling is a protected form of free expression, so i am not sure if such a law would pass (state) constitutional muster here

[Cleita]

16. Loitering...hanging around a store without buying anything or outside

a store, or a street corner, not heading anywhere. Prowling...walking through a neighborhood not openly but in alleys through yards and generally behaving suspiciously. I'm not in law enforcement but this would be my guesses.

[backscatter712]

19. Being black in a white neighborhood...

Yeah, call me a cynical bastard, but that's how a lot of cops think.

[imdjh]

21. That goes both ways though. Being white in a black neighborhood can get you pulled over...

Right now I could go get in my car and there are black areas of this county where if I drive around the block three or four times, or if I were to stop and sit there with my window down it would cause a police officer to suspect that I am in the market for drugs or sex. Obviously, this would not be true of the better black neighborhoods.

[Flaneur]

20. It's how I spend my weekend evenings.