A Challenge to Obama Critics

[CTLawGuy]

Find me a piece of major social change legislation that was (1) passed over lockstep partisan opposition (1 or 2 defectors at most) and (2) there was enough votes to overcome an attempted filibuster via cloture, ALL of said votes coming from the party proposing the legislation.

With each example, give me the president's name and I will forward it to Obama so he can use the experience as the template for what he SHOULD be doing in this situation.

Thanks.

[mmonk]

1. A challenge to you.

What does he stand for and what changes does he want?

[HamdenRice]

2. From another thread -- just the tip of the iceberg

"Ending the war in Iraq, ending warrantless wiretapping, enacting Keynesian economic policies <including a return to progressive taxation with higher rates on the wealthy>, replacing warmongering with diplomacy, restoring due process in criminal trials, ending extraordinary rendition, ending torture, closing Guantanamo, <comprehensive health care reform> -- all these things are the change in policy I voted for."

<bracketed stuff added to this post.>

[lildreamer316]

4. "..ending warrantless wiretapping"? "Obama Quietly Backs Patriot Act Provisions"!!!

Obama Quietly Backs Patriot Act Provisions

<snip>

"But with the apparent approval of the Obama White House and a number of Republicans – and over the objections of liberal Senate Democrats including Russ Feingold of Wisconsin and Dick Durbin of Illinois – the Senate Judiciary Committee has voted to extend the three provisions with only minor changes.

Those provisions would leave unaltered the power of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to seize records and to eavesdrop on phone calls and e-mail in the course of counterterrorism investigations.

<snip>

"FISA Amendments Act of 2008

This past summer, Congress passed a law that permits the government to conduct warrantless and suspicion-less dragnet collection of U.S. residents' international telephone calls and e-mails. "

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/11/23-6

HELLO.

[HamdenRice]

7. It's impossible to get facts across to the delusional: Obama SHUT DOWN warrantless wiretapping

of US citizens. The Obama administration ended warrantless wiretapping of US citizens. US law has always allowed warrantless wiretaps of foreign calls, and has always allowed wiretapping of US citizens with a warrant, including since the 70s, a warrant from the FISA court.

You are conflating 2008 (BUSH era -- why is it so many people are calendar challenged?) changes in law, with traditional foreign intelligence, with renewal of unspecified sections of the Patriot Act.

The Patriot Act was a monster sized bill full of stuff that had been drafted by successive Justice Departments going back to the Clinton administration. Your citations show nothing about restoring warrantless wiretapping.

I find it remarkable that a news story early in the Obama administration about ENDING warrantless wiretapping has now been spun into an irrefutable urban myth that warrantless wiretapping of citizens in continuing. What actually happened was that the Holder DOJ discovered that Bush holdovers in the NSA were continuing to wiretap US citizens without warrants and IMMEDIATELY SHUT THEM DOWN. Holder apparently said something like, this was really bad, maybe worse than stuff they did during the Bush administration.

Democracy Now then reported this story falsely as something like "Obama administration continuing warrantless wiretapping worse than Bush." So Holder's swift action and investigation to SHUT DOWN warrantless wiretapping was spun into "Obama continues warrantless wiretapping."

That thought is now lodged irretrievably in the concrete skulls of Obama haters, defeatists, PUMAs, Trots and assorted whiners.

Go back to the original news stories. Obama shut down warrantless wiretapping.

I realize it's pointless to demonstrate this even with extensive links -- I've done it several times -- because basically it is now an article of religious faith among the permanently disappointed.

[madokie]

15. I'm with you

We Have Met The Enemy and He Is Us

I'm about wore out with all the naysayers here on a supposedly democratic board. hell I wonder if fr might look better

[conscious evolution]

17. You do know

that the phone companies were/are routing domestic phone calls overseas and back to get around the fourth amendment?
Same with internet traffic-which was also being routed thru satellites,which are also considered international for the purpose of skirting search and seizure laws.
Someone here posted an article about it a while back-Gotta admit,though,I'm to lazy to search it out.

[excess_3]

3. you have to play the cards you are dealt

Obama has 60 senators

not surprisingly,
some of those 60 are dingbats

[Go2Peace]

5. Which is why he needs to change direction and bring his grassroots to the table to help

He is going this alone and pissing off the base and making himself less popular and less effective. It is all really pretty easy to understand.

[excess_3]

9. time to go nuclear

throw the senate's rules away

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

16. Ding! Ding! Ding! And I'll add...

Throw the Senate away with its rules.

[Obamanaut]

11. And some of the dingbats are on their second or subsequent term.

The people who continue to vote for 'the name you know' helped to create this mess.

[VMI Dem]

6. Since the President listens to you, can you tell him not to escalate in Afghanistan?

Also, could you mention that his views on gay marriage are wrong and bigoted?

Thanks.

[CTLawGuy]

12. I didn't say he did

but thanks for displaying your lack of reading comprehension skills.

[AllentownJake]

8. Are we still talking about this disaster of a miscalculation that Health Care reform was?

So let me concede to what you are saying is true, why would you go for a giant social change legislation over something like, banking regulatory reform, when you could only get 3 republicans to cross the aisle for the stimulus and one of those republicans had to become a democrat over the vote?

Maybe he could have tackled regulatory reform on the banking industry when everyone was ready with their pitchforks instead?

So I'll buy into your argument for a second and saying, if what you are saying is true, than the President was an idiot to launch such an effort in the current political climate.

[CTLawGuy]

13. Something has to be done about health care

and soon. No he was not an idiot to bring it up. This is the best opportunity we have. And unless we win big AGAIN in 2010 it isn't going to change.

Let me tell you something, the Republicans who are refusing to do anything to help this country in desperate need, are the ones who are going to benefit from the constant attacks of people like you on our president. It is because of THEM that Obama has to kiss the asses of the stupid blue dogs who can sink anything nearly singlehandedly.

The Rs haven't historically acted the way they do. That was my point in this OP. Almost 90 R Reps/Sens voted for Medicare in 1965. Almost 150 voted for the civil rights act. Can you even conceive of such a thing today?

When in history has a president been so utterly dependent on his own party as Obama is on his? (1994?) Where LBJ could ignore the Joe Liebermans of the world in passing Medicare and the CRA, Obama cannot afford to for health care or anything else. (At least Joe Lieberman MIGHT consider being cooperative.)

If the Rs benefit from their obstruct everything strategy, they will keep on doing it, and nothing will get done, or, if we're lucky, the bills will just get passed as watered down versions.

And guess what, the only way to make it better is to make the Republicans pay for gumming up the works of government when we desperately need its help. And thanks to people like you, who frankly don't understand how government works, they will hardly pay, they will in fact benefit from the mess they caused. It worked for them in 1994.

I'm gonna fight like hell to make sure it doesn't work for them in 2010. What are you going to do? What's more important to you, making Obama pay for not doing the nearly impossible, or making the Rs pay for utterly abdicating their duties to govern this country and putting Obama into the impossible situation?

[Stinky The Clown]

10. And your post is going to change hearts and minds?

Either you don't know the art of persuasion, or your intent is to piss people off.

Or like many of us powerless peons, you're figuratively howling at the moon on a computer message board while the people you voted for do whatever the fuck they want to do and only come back to give you a figurative blow job when they need your vote again.

And to nswer your question, there was no time in history just like this one. So your question is bullshit and proves nothing.

Now, if you want to talk about the clear, clarion call of leadership ......

[CTLawGuy]

14. listen stinky

why don't you look in a history book and ask yourself if LBJ would have passed Medicare over lockstep R opposition? or the Civil Rights Act?

So it's not a bullshit question. Never in history has a president been so dependent on his own party, which gives the fringes of that party so much power.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

18. What?

You're suggesting that everyone just lined up for LBJ and FDR? Neither had to resort to the bully club on their bully pulpit? We're not seeing anything like that from Obama. Obama's got a few Dems and a couple of Rs already on the fence, and he needs to get his buddy Leiberman in line. Instead, he's taking a hands-off approach and letting them work it out amongst themselves.