Cindy Sheehan explains why anti-war movement failed

[Kaleva]

http://www.newbritainherald.com/articles/2009/11/17/news/doc4b02156b1b8eb453196853.txt

"...the American anti-war movement has gone off the rails since what was supposed to be a non-partisan “anti-war” movement became instead a very partisan “anti-George W. Bush” movement. That was the central point made by noted peace activist Cindy Sheehan..."

If memory serves me right, I thought Cindy herself became fixated on Bush.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Memory serves very right

[GMA]

4. Of course she did, but don't you think hatred of George Bush

spread like wildfire, and might have regardless of Ms. Sheehan?

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. That is not the point,

she was part of the problem... as to hatred of Mr. Bush... well lets just say the more radical actions were never taken.

[shadowknows69]

9. She was part of the problem???

While most of us were sitting on our asses raging on here Cindy was getting arrested. I'm surprised at you Nadin.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. I was and still am in the Streets

but when she fixated on one person (for good reasons mind you) instead of the whole system.

That is when it came off the rails.

Hell I was part of the problem too, if you wish to think those of us who took to the streets only spoke of Bush's war... guilty as charged.

[shadowknows69]

14. I never saw her as fixating on anything but stopping the war

And holding those responsible accountable. I think she's being too hard on herself if she agrees with you.

[shadowknows69]

18. If I was able I'd take to the streets just as quickly today.

And I applaud you for doing so. We can't in any way put the blame on the people that tried to stop it in the grass roots. When the powers that be won't listen no matter how many people are in the streets then you have two choices: Sit back and take it or storm the bastile.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. We even tried national strikes, a step bellow a storm the barricades

in my view.

So at this point I am tired... though had fun playing billionaire for a day... and getting in the face of tea baggers. But I fear efforts are not going to go anywhere until we do storm the Bastille.

[Selatius]

59. National strikes don't work if it isn't backed up by popular will.

Hundreds of thousands of people participated, but a national strike of that magnitude has no teeth in a nation of 300,000,000+ people. Plus, most people, too pre-occupied with working two jobs or working a load of overtime just to remain afloat, fall back to relying on network television for the news, and those outlets are controlled by corporate interests that have no desire to publicize anti-establishment activity except where it benefits immediate goals of theirs like FOX advertising and promoting Teabagger rallies. People who rely on the big networks as a primary source of news never even got a word of the strikes. Maybe if the US was geographically the size of France or Germany, several hundred thousand people could get the job done, but that's not the case.

At least the people of Iran were already ahead of the curve in distrusting official sources of news. They, as well as citizens of the former Soviet Union, learned how to "read between the lines" because they had accepted the idea that the news lies to them, especially after Iranians realized how blatant the vote rigging really had become. Americans are still imprisoned by the belief in a free press, and it is a prison far more efficient than one built of steel bars and reinforced concrete walls.

The cruel joke a Chinese student once said to me was that having two choices at the ballot box was more insulting than one. At least with the latter, the oligarchs are more honest about why they exercise power in the manner that they do and don't entertain the idea of the extra step of maintaining a cruel illusion of democracy.

[shadowknows69]

8. Well I wonder why? The shameless fucker wouldn't even agree to meet with her

She used to be a hero around here for her relentless pursuit of peace, not just for being a Bush hater.

[Fumesucker]

2. Perhaps she is engaging in a bit of self reflection?

It's really interesting how DU has become on the whole far less anti-war since Obama was inaugurated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. SOme of us still are,

but it would take a draft to erase the partisan lines and make all committed enough to remain on the streets.

[bobbolink]

22. Self-reflection... whadda concept.

Not something you find a lot of on DU, or among "progressives" in general.

To our own peril.

:(

[Fumesucker]

26. Not exactly a common American trait, on any quarter of the political compass.

If I knew myself I'd probably run away screaming.

[phasma ex machina]

85. +1 Kids marching off to war got all but forgotten. nt

[JI7]

3. the "free mumia" stuff didn't help either

[tblue]

7. It would have failed anyway. The pro-war sentiment in the wake of 911 was too strong.

Cindy targeted Bush, and I don't really blame her after how he treated her. Maybe she didn't help, but she's not the reason we stayed at war.

[shadowknows69]

11. The laziness and fear of your average american is too strong.

We should have been storming the Capitol during the Bush years instead we patiently waited for Hope and Change which is still nowhere in sight.

[tblue]

17. They executed people in Iran who protested the stolen election.

They are much braver than we are even without that kind of threat (though I did fear that B/C were gonna throw some of us in Gitmo).

I guess it's because most of us think we have so much to protect: livelihood, police record, reputation, material possessions. But Iranians risked their very lives.

[shadowknows69]

19. We've forgotten that our liberty and justice used to be worth dying for.

Now we just applaud the troops in whatever random war we're in and pretend we're "Fighting for our freedom" through them.

[tblue]

30. Grrrrrrr. That's just so ridiculous.

"Freedom." Right.

I hate it when I'm at a ballgame and the announcers say we're gonna stand for the national anthem to acknowledge our troops who are "fighting for our freedom." I always cry out, "No, they're not!" (Does not make me popular.)

[Codeine]

10. It failed because it was hijacked

by people pushing unrelated issues. ANSWER's anti-Semitism, "Free Mumia!", immigration, Palestine, Israel, and identity politics get all jumbled into the mix.

[Jackpine Radical]

20. It was ever thus.

Every anti-war movement in this country has been a motley collection of fellow-travellers who put most of their energy into trying to grab the microphone, and who turn on each other at any & every opportunity.

[Codeine]

21. That's a very good analysis. nt

[coalition_unwilling]

41. 'ANSWER's anti-semitism'? Care to explain? I attended many

anti-war demos sponsored by ANSWER in Los Angeles and never once encountered anything remotely resembling anti-semitism from ANSWER. Is this some sort of 'inside baseball' allusion?

[shadowknows69]

64. Yeah, I didn't get that from ANSWER either.

But I suppose to some if you support the Palestinian people at all you're an anti-semite. I've seen it on here.

[Codeine]

84. From the ADL (not that you'll accept their position)

"In New York one speaker led the crowd in chants in Arabic: “Nasrallah dear: bomb Tel Aviv … bomb Kiryat Shmona” (the event was held at a day when Israeli towns were under attack by Hezbollah missiles). Another speaker from Al-Awda-NY said: “This will not come to an end until Israel is finished, until there is no Israel… We need to shot down the media and their corporations shot down Israel.” The crowd at the New York event chanted “Long live Hezbollah! Long live Hamas!” and, in Arabic, “Palestine is Arab from the river to the sea!” In Los Angeles many of the signs accused Israel and the U.S. of genocide and equated Zionism with Nazi Germany. "

In San Francisco, the anti-Israel sentiment was extensive and several placards promoted anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and support for Palestinian violence. “We attacked Iraq for Israel… Free my country,” and “Smash the Jewish State,” were among them. Activists also chanted, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,” and “Long live Palestine, long live the intifada.”

[coalition_unwilling]

92. Your language is quite telling (albeit poorly sourced). The day that

Israeli towns were "under attack" by Hezbollah missiles was the same day that South Lebanon was "under attack" by Israeli warplanes (funds for same supplied by U.S. taxpayers to the tune of, oh, $5 billion/year at a minimum) and white phosphorous, aka napalm.

Exactly how are the examples you cite evidence of anti-semitism? Opposed to Likudnik craziness yes, anti-semitism no. "Several placards" in a demonstration of 10s of thousands? Come on, give me a friggin break.

Your final sentence ("Activists also chanted, 'From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,' and 'Long live Palestine, long live the intifada.'") has absolutely NOTHING to do with anti-semitism whatsoever, except in your twisted mind.

Opposing Israel's illegal military aggression(s) in Lebanon and its illegal occupation of Palestine is not the same thing as being anti-semitic or espousing anti-semitism. Not that you would ever admit that.

Before you accuse me of anti-semitism, please know that I wrote my senior History thesis on Nazi Germany's implementation of the Final Solution. And I received a University Scholar award . . . in History.

[Behind the Aegis]

51. I agree. But, I also think it was willingly hijacked.

It was a result of mistaking "common enemy" with "common cause."

[MSchreader]

53. That's a red herring

Most of the antiwar demonstrations were organized by United for Peace and Justice, not ANSWER, and they kept them focused strictly on antiwar issues. The whole ANSWER-Mumia-Immigration-Palestine canard is a cheap excuse used by those who objected to the movement being anything more than a lobbying group.

[Codeine]

55. The UPJ organized, ANSWER took over.

Thus "hijacked." Their presence, ubiquity, and volume made the movement easy to lampoon and marginalize.

>The whole ANSWER-Mumia-Immigration-Palestine canard is a cheap excuse used by those who objected to the movement being anything more than a lobbying group.

Speaking of canards; the anti-Iraq-war movement was supposed to be about opposition to the war, not dudes who shoot cops or people fighting over some scrap of shithole desert.

[shadowknows69]

66. They didn't need ANSWER to marginalize us.

They just didn't cover us. The anti-war movement during Bush was huge, but you wouldn't know it by watching mainstream TV.

[MSchreader]

90. ANSWER is too small to 'hijack' the movement

In reality, ANSWER is probably no more than 1,000 people nationally. If they succeeded in taking a measure of leadership away from UFPJ, it's because the latter allowed them to do so through their own unwillingness to be more active and in-your-face, which is what a lot of people wanted.

I'm not a supporter of ANSWER, so I think it's pretty ridiculous when people ascribe to them a greater role than they actually had. People showed up to ANSWER events in spite of them, not because of them. People wanted to protest the war, and ANSWER gave them an outlet. The fault for that lies not with ANSWER, but with UFPJ.

And, yes, the right wing is going to jump on ANSWER's views, which they would do regardless of how much of a presence they actually have. The righties like a red herring, too.

[JackRiddler]

13. Of course she focused on Bush, long as he was still in office.

What's your point? The Bush regime started the "war on terror" and invaded Iraq.

She spoke out against the war then, and continues to speak out against the war now.

Her point is that the antiwar movement focused on Bush as though a new president was the goal. Ending the war remains her goal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. DING, DING. DING. DING we got a winnnah

[shadowknows69]

16. +1

[G_j]

32. exactly

it is depressing for me to see all the cars in my town with anti war stickers, and a newer Obama sticker.
I bet those people are a bit depressed too. In truth, we knew the election was a desperate act, after being traumatized by Bush's violence.
Frankly our hearts are broken, but for a peace activist, presidents come and go. Look at Vietnam.
The struggle goes on, take for instance, the recent annual demonstration at Fort Benning against the SOA.
People go to federal prison, for crossing the line into the base. Is this ever reported?

Millions around the world demonstrated to PREVENT the Iraq war, something not really seen before in history.
But the scraggily tea-bagger rallies probably got more media coverage.

[Chulanowa]

23. The anti-war movement failed because it had no teeth

What were they going to do, march some more? Make some oh-so-scathing placards? Sing Pete Seeger songs really badly?

The anti-war movement failed because it amounted mostly to people tagging along to look hip, with a core of do-nothings from the 60's who did nothing then, either.

[Cid_B]

42. BAM! Spot on...

[Odin2005]

47. Oh, SNAP! +1000

[G_j]

65. I see your hateful post got a couple of folks tagging along

:thumbsdown:

[shadowknows69]

67. I'll second that thumbs down.

:thumbsdown: Those that marched in the 60's and 70's were taking their lives in their hands. Kent State. Hello? As did we. We didn't know if Bush's goon squad would drag some of us off the street and disappear us. He certainly gave himself the power to do so.

[SIMPLYB1980]

69. +100

:thumbsup:

[RufusTFirefly]

25. No, it failed because our voices -- millions strong -- were irrelevant

If your name didn't end with an Inc. or a Corp. you were ignored.

Dianne Feinstein reportedly received anti-war calls at a ratio of 40 to 1. And yet she voted in favor of giving a nutjob war powers.
The delegates at the 2004 Democratic National Convention were overwhelmingly against the war; and yet they nominated a candidate who voted for it.

Contrast that with the Tea Baggers who get network coverage whenever two or more of them get together.



Long may it wave

[Johonny]

37. I agree

When a small teaparty get's more air time on MSM than all the anti-war protesting since the two war began, that tells you why they failed. Even MSNBC spends more time on the totally powerless Sarah Palin than the two wars currently being fought.

[Kaleva]

38. There's more Palin threads here then Iraq & Afghanistan threads

[rucky]

27. Lessons learned, I guess. n/t

[blues90]

28. I think it failed for a number of reasons , all by design

Cindy did not go out there to become a figure head for the anti war crowd . She started out on a personal mission and was chosen in a way.

But many others railed against the war and the media did not show it . Protestors were blocked and restricted from areas anywhere near GW caalled free speach zones.

It was all blocked due to efforts of the corporations and their interests which includes the war machine and the corporate owned media.

[cornfedyank]

29. we need a draft

i think that the lack of a draft leaves too many with the excuse "this isn't my war.

[Vinnie From Indy]

70. Yep!

The lack of a draft in America in combination with a completely corrupt mainstream media has made the war easy for millions of Americans to put out of their minds. They have no direct skin in the game.

I respect Cindy's passion and her simple goal, but I have had many problems with her tactics and her past comments.

[Peregrine Took]

31. Election of Obama deflated it.

Hopes were so high that he would pull us out of the Middle East or begin to do so, then....the "Bush II" era set in and here we are.

[Kaleva]

34. I think many were more anti-Bush then anti-war.

When Obama won the election, the anti-war rhetoric just fizzled away.

[RufusTFirefly]

35. Yes! Pres. Obama is the presidential equivalent of the public option

It occurs to me that President Obama is like the public option, a cynical attempt to replace the change that is truly needed with a heavily marketed ersatz change that never really amounted to much in the first place and then gets steadily whittled down even further to the point of utter meaninglessness while successfully blunting the actions of actual progressives.

Donning flak jacket...

:hide:

[struggle4progress]

33. War is a big industry: the profiteers have every interest in war continuing. And the families

and friends, of the poor saps that get themselves killed, never ever want to hear that the war was just a lie and a waste and a mistake. So, once set in motion, a war rolls, like an enormous boulder down a long hill, spinning off a cloud of justifications: Patriot! Self defense! Honor! Remember! Due to the tremendous momentum of the war machine, a war really cannot end until there is a super-majority of opposition

[Echo In Light]

76. Melvins - Sacrifice

Can you hear the war cry?
It's time to enlist
The people speak as one
The cattle, the crowd
Those too afraid to live
Demand a sacrifice
Of your life

Can you smell their stinking breath?
Listen to them
Wheezing and gasping and
Chanting their slogans
It's a grave digger's song
Praising God & State
So the Nation will live
So we all can remain as cattle

Can you smell the fresh blood
Steaming into the soil?
As our patriots,
Fathers, mothers and lovers
Admire the military style
Praising God and the State
Crying tears of pride
For all the fools slaughtered
For the maimed, the dying
And the dead
So the Nation will live
So we all can remain as cattle

They demand a sacrifice
They demand a sacrifice
They demand a s sacrifice of your life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjhEo0MWDJU

[krabigirl]

36. She's right.

[madrchsod]

39. she did`t take into account there is no draft

cindy it was the DRAFT that fueled the 60`s anti war movement.that is why there is`t a draft to supply cannon fodder and there`s no news coverage of these two wars.if the draft were in effect at the start of the iraq war it would have been over years ago

we have a mercenary army. the military pays tens of thousands up front and hundreds of thousands in lifetime benefits for enlistments. in an economy with no jobs for young men and women the military has become an employer of last resort.

i do agree that the anti war movement has personalized who was responsible for the war but now it is obama`s wars.

we will see what happens if obama decides to escalate the war in afganistan.....

[Kaleva]

40. There's a rec/unrec fight going on in this thread.

[RufusTFirefly]

44. Sad. I've recommended it. I hope every else who wants to has. n/t

[unkachuck]

43. "It's...

...not the president, it’s the system we have to be fighting. The system is pro-war."

....and with their trillions, the corporate system does everything in its power to minimized anti-war anything....our corporate fascists and their endless war-machine has bankrupted our country....every man, woman and child has been indentured to their illicit cause....

....keep speaking the truth, Cindy....

[omega minimo]

45. If "failed" because there was no ANTI that could stand up to Bushco INSANITY.

:evilfrown:



Just like Gore "lost" because of Nader :crazy:

[Odin2005]

46. The naive pacifists obviosuly still don't get that it was anti-IRAQ war.

And Cindy became dead to me when she got chummy with Chavez.

[omega minimo]

48. Some of your certitudes, OD2

are drive bys like this one. So strong and so -- brief. What are you saying?

Do you really remember the buildup and mindfuck to Gulf War II?

Please expound.

[Odin2005]

68. I am saying that people deluded themselves into thinkin that...

...opposition to the Iraq War was also opposition to all US military actions. The "Anti-War people fooled themselves into thinking they had more support than they actually had.

[earth mom]

49. Yep as long as Obama does it, it's ALL good now. Well, it's Obama's War now.

He's been in office almost a year and nothing has changed.

[anonymous171]

50. The problem with the "anti-war" movement is that it isn't isolationist.

[Codeine]

52. Isolationism is impossible.

That ship sailed with the advent of international media and telecommunications.

[anonymous171]

54. Cultural Isolationism, yes.

Political and Military isolationism are still quite doable. America, in its current state, cannot be anything but a hegemonic power on the world stage. We must withdraw and allow some other power to take our place. Hopefully they will be less evil than we were.

[cowcommander]

56. That's sounds awfully Ron Paul-ish

No republican or democrat would ever support such a measure.

[anonymous171]

91. You are right, unfortunately.

:(

[Quantess]

57. The anti-war movement failed because the government wouldn't hear it, and

the mainstream media ignored it.

Our masters refused to change their plans just because some protesting peons knew the truth and spoke up about it.

[LostInAnomie]

58. It didn't help that Cindy Sheehan and her "Cindy speaks for me!" crowd...

... did a bunch of idiotic things and made a bunch of idiotic statements that only served to marginalize the anti-war movement.

[EFerrari]

60. Iirc, the war became less popular AFTER Cindy started working

not more popular.

[LostInAnomie]

61. If you give her credit for that you are dreaming.

The war got less and less popular because the it was a complete disaster in every way imaginable. It didn't take Cindy Sheehan to show us that, it took watching the news or reading a newspaper for about 10 minutes.

[EFerrari]

78. No, I'm not dreaming. If you looked at a paper or watched the news

you'd have seen Cindy Sheehan sitting in a ditch.

[LostInAnomie]

87. Or, you would have seen her going on a hunger strike for about a day...

... making anti-semitic statements, praising Hugo Chavez, calling Hurricane Katrina "a little wind", blaming democrats for all the wars in the 20th century and slavery, etc. She is a clown and her activities only gave the media easy sound bites and a face to use to marginalize a movement that was millions strong before she even thought about joining it.

The anti-war movement didn't need her.

[EFerrari]

89. The only reason you even know her name is because she was successful.

That she is also consistent is another matter. :)

[Kaleva]

62. The anti-war movement probably was always small...

it's numbers were temporarily inflated by the "I hate Bush" people.

[sendero]

63. The anti-war movement failed..

... because most Americans are not anti-war.

[Naturyl]

86. +100 for truth.

Simple answers are sometimes correct.

[PassingFair]

71. If we hadn't protested, we'd be KILLING IRANIANS by now.

Make no mistake, our protests WORKED.

[Kaleva]

72. That's conjecture.

[PassingFair]

74. So is saying that it "failed".

I truly believe that if we had not protested,
many would have believed themselves to be isolated
in their views against imperialism, and the criminals
would have continued their PNAC agenda unabated.

Everything we did helped.

It helped to slow down the warmongers.
It helped to elect Barack Obama.

[struggle4progress]

83. Conjecture with a considerable basis in fact, though: hardly a day passed in the Bush era, without

the Bushistas floating a trial balloon for the invasion of Iran

[PVnRT]

73. If my memory serves...

...Cindy seemed to think that she was the defacto leader of all anti-war efforts, and got upset when there were groups independent of her, and *gasp!* even criticizing her for all the grandstanding she did.

[LostInAnomie]

88. Exactly.

Cindy and the "Cindy speaks for me!" crowd thinks it was impossible to be against the war before she came around.

[SteppingRazor]

75. It failed? News to me.

Right after Bush, the American people elected a man who swore to get us out of Iraq. Wasn't that the whole point?

[WI_DEM]

77. the real truth is that anti-war movements don't work anymore because there is no draft

I don't want the draft back either, but that is my opinion. If it was your butt on the line or your kids I think many more people would be anti-war and join in demonstrations.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elehhhhna]

80. ding ding you win!

and WELCOMETO DU!

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Taverner]

82. She did, and from what I can tell she feels like she is partly responsible

Say what you will about her, she's willing to admit when she screwed up. That's more than I can say for folks here at DU