"Kill The Bill!!!" "This Bill Must Die!!!!"

[Beetwasher]

When you're spouting tea bagger slogans and you're on the same unctious side as sleaze bags like the GOP and Lieberman, maybe you should reconsider your position. The company you keep yadda yadda.

How does it feel to be on the wrong side of history? The mere thought of ever being aligned w/ those vile elements is enough to make me queasy.

Kill the bill!! The bill must die!!! Uggh. How disgusting. How vile adopting this loony rightwing sloganeering.

I suspect the loudmouth few on this site vomiting up those slogans are less than genuine in their supposed progressive bonafides. Just one man's opinion.

[Arkana]

1. It disturbs me even more that people

are repeating the RW talking point that people who are unable to purchase insurance will be jailed.

[Beetwasher]

9. Lies

Are all they have.

[TCJ70]

10. Did you even read his post? n/t

[Beetwasher]

11. I Misread It (Apologies to Arkana)

n/t

[Arkana]

26. I never even saw your original post, so no harm done, I guess.

I assume you misread it as me PUSHING the lie that people who can't afford insurance will be jailed?

[Avalux]

2. Here here!

Agree completely. The onslaught my post suffered was ridiculous. :hi:

[TCJ70]

3. There are reasons to be opposed to the HCR bill...

...that I think are acceptable. Personally, I think that if we get a HCR bill passed it won't be revisited. I don't care how many people tell me that this is just the starting point, I don't have faith in our congressmen to actually make the necessary changes in the future...so this bill is NOT acceptable to me. It's not that I don't think HCR is necessary, it is for a lot of people, it's that I don't think this bill is worth my effort to help pass.

What I see in this bill is a handout to the insurance companies that we all seem to have the same attitude toward. Why would I support that?

[Beetwasher]

8. Nice Group Of Corp Crusaders You've Aligned Yourself With

The GOP! Way to go!

[SPedigrees]

12. Well Medicare was revisited and strengthened, along with many other

democratic bills that made it through Congress the first time in a less than optimal format. Now they are American conventions that benefit us all. You need to learn more about how the democratic process works in this country. And perhaps a little gratitude (for our democratic presidents and congressmen) at this time of year would be in order... for the social security system, unemployment insurance, the civil rights act, and so on.

Throwing out the baby with the bath water, biting off one's nose to spite one's face... these are expressions made to fit your childish, short sighted vision.

[TCJ70]

22. I understand how Medicare and...

...the other social safety nets we have today came to be. It wasn't overnight, I get that. There are good things in this bill when it comes to getting recognition of pre-existing conditions, etc...but if we allow what they're calling a "Public Option" to pass, I just see the future as full of "Yeah we already tried that and look what happened!?"

And it's not like every democrat is for this bill either (and I don't mean the obvious ones like Joe Lieberman). The votes from the Louisiana senator (if I'm remembering right) were bought because she was promised money for her state. If we're going to do this bill, I'd rather not have anything called a public option in it unless it's going to be a true public option open to the people. At least then we have another option to establish a true public option separate from the rest of the good things in this bill.

[Prism]

4. When you're on the side of corporations over the people . . .

. . . maybe you should reconsider yours.

[Beetwasher]

Yes, You And Those Anti Corp. Crusaders Like The GOP and Lieberman!!

Nice friends you have there!

[mdmc]

7. now now

we are all democrats here

[mdmc]

5. If this is as good as Obama can do, then I will support it

It sucks, will cost me more for health insurance, and won't give me a public option.

I want universal health care. But I will take a victory for Obama.

If Obama could do any better, then he would. He can't. The corporations won't let him.

[tekisui]

15. I agree with this sentiment.

The insurance industry is too powerful for us to get anything more at this time. That is just how it is. Whether Obama was unwilling or unable makes no difference. Each would just be evidence of the same symptom--corporations are at least as powerful as our government. Our representatives, whether indebted to the corps or afraid to take them on head-on, are forced to write bills with the execs sitting at the table.

The corps are essentially another branch of government, as far as I can tell. At best I would consider them a political party with a large membership in DC.

This bill is as good as we can get, and there are some very important measures in it.

[kenny blankenship]

19. Are they too powerful at this time, or are "we" too corrupt and out of touch?

These are not the Democrats we were looking for. The New Deal didn't come about out of a sudden outpouring of good will and the restrained tolerance of capital, it came about because capitalism choked on its own filth and the people were forced to take the Masters of the Universe on directly, to secure their own survival. Health care reform will come about when our leaders creep out of the financial-insurance lobby's pocket and take them on directly in our name. Sadly it looks like the money is just too good for that to happen until, as occurred in the Crash and Depression of the Hoover era, raw necessity overwhelms the venal instincts of our current Democrats - or they are replaced in a wholesale electoral rout.

[derby378]

20. That sounds rather defeatist

Are we to simply roll on our backs and pee ourselves because we consider the insurance companies "too big to fail," or are we going to insist that they have to answer to the same laws as everyone else?

I am convinced that our legislators will not try to strengthen any provisions of this bill after it is signed by Obama, so now is the time to press for the reforms that the American people deserve before the bill becomes law, the insurance companies "loophole" their way out of most of the new regulations, and we have to wait at least 30 years for real insurance reform to take place.

[tekisui]

23. Oh, don't stop. I do think this is our best chance.

Once it is voted on and signed it won't change significantly, you are right.

[Beetwasher]

17. I Don't See It Is Merely A Victory For Obama

I see it as a victory for the millions w/out coverage who WILL be covered. I see it as PROGRESS. I see it as the first step, the foundation to build upon.

[mdmc]

24. yesyes

but for the working poor, this will cost me more and little will change with my medical costs (employer based health insurance).
I see progress too. Just not for me personally.
But it is progress..

[SPedigrees]

18. Very well said. I agree. Start with baby steps.

Never forget too that the repubs' goal here is to "ruin Obama" by defeating health insur. reform, and remember the worst damage another repub pres can do is to appoint conservative Supreme Crt Justices. We should thank Pres. Obama for Justice Sotomayor and we should all cringe at the thought of who McCain would have appointed to the bench. (shudder)

[derby378]

21. When your ass is on fire...

...baby steps won't put the fire out. You stop, drop, and roll until you smother the fire. At least the Wyden amendment is taking us in the direction of "stop, drop, and roll."

[lame54]

6. I've not seen them

[Barack_America]

13. But, if it's killed, Dems will get the chance to pass something better next year...

...and everyone will realize Kucinich has been right all along.

:sarcasm:

[demodonkey]

14. I have no healthcare now.

Under this bill I would get some.

[HughMoran]

16. Red Rum! Red Rum!!

:rofl:

[liberalmuse]

25. Amen.

Sometimes I think DU has its own teabaggers.

[sendero]

27. God forbid anyone..

.. think for themselves. We should all be good republicans and just eat whatever shit our leaders are feeding that day, huh?

As for me, if there is no public option NOW, then the bill is 100% bullshit and not worth bothering with. And I'm starting to doubt that the PO will be there.

If it's not, I don't care if the bill passes or not, it's another Medicare Part D as far as I can tell.

[Beetwasher]

28. Good Repubs Want To Kill This Bill

That's the company you keep.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[HamdenRice]

35. Utter nonsense

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8747753&mesg_id=8747753

Right here is your evidence. But if you don't give a shit about humans -- just like the repugs -- then the thread linked to above means nothing to you.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HamdenRice]

30. Because some people who think they are the "left" aren't -- they're basically teabaggers themselves

and want the same things as teabaggers -- they want progressives and Democrats to fail in order to confirm their bleak, dreary view of the world.

[blindpig]

32. Glad that's working for ya...

However, I might suggest that a bleak view of our economic system and that which derives from it is quite different from our view of the world. Indeed, it is our view of the differences between the two which motivates our opinion. Clarity, try it sometimes.

[HamdenRice]

36. You again! The DUer with the most perfectly descriptive screen name ever!

How's the collective reading of Das Kapital going "over there"? The celebrations of "victory" over DU are amusing.

As for the overall implosion over there, my favorite line ever was when someone over there wrote to one of the new mods, something like "you mean your crazy ass is now a mod???"

:rofl:

[blindpig]

40. No such thing

Rather, the simple observation that the reactionaries of this place are losing ground daily, as witnessed by the increasing level of savagery and dishonesty being deployed in the vain attempt to deny ever more obvious reality. 'We' take no credit for this, it is events, as always, which dictate reality. It's just a matter of providing play by play and color commentary.

Ya ought to drop in, you're so obsessed with us.

[HamdenRice]

41. That's a hilarious invitation coming after wave upon wave of bannings for political deviations

from the most narrow and frankly inexplicable rigidly doctrinaire mono-position, until you're left with what? five active members -- reading Das Kapital together!

Drop in? To join in the victory celebrations over DU and internal deviations? Really?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Beetwasher]

44. That Explains Some Of Them

There are others that are just trolls too.

[VMI Dem]

34. Epic fail.

Heh.

[QC]

37. Good morning, Senator McCarthy. n/t

[AllentownJake]

39. +1

[Beetwasher]

43. Why Stop Their Einstein, Just Call Me A Nazi Too And Get It Out Of The Way

Hyperbole much? Am I censoring you somehow, Chester?

Whine all you want. Start a dozen threads how you hate the bill and it must die. Just realize who your teammates are. Sucks for you, but it's the truth. You don't like the company you keep? That's your problem, Chester.

[treestar]

45. And then being against progress

Progressives against progress. If it's not everything, kill it. Most of history shows progress. Would they have been against Medicare because it did not cover everyone? It only covered those over 65. Shouldn't that have been enough to kill it?