Howard Dean - House bill allows insurance companies to charge double for pre-existing conditions...

[slipslidingaway]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UafcFJLTumE

[Shagbark Hickory]

1. So then can people just sign up for th PO?

[MNDemNY]

2. It will be even more expensive.

You do realize that the "PO" must pay for itself through premiums, don't you? The CBO say's it will have higher rates than private plans. So much for "cost containment". This bill must die.

[Shagbark Hickory]

6. Maybe, maybe not. Look...

If I want to send a 30lb box from here to Tenn, it would be more expensive to use the public option (USPS) than to use fedex ground.
However if I want to send a small 8oz package to the same place it would be far cheaper to use the public option.

Maybe cadillac plans will be cheaper with the private companies but for the basics, to keep folks from going broke, I think the PO will be cheaper.

Why are you so certain that the rates will be higher when the profit motive and executive salaries are removed from the equation?

[MNDemNY]

7. The CBO disagrees with you.

They clearly say that the "PO" will be substantially more expensive.

[Shagbark Hickory]

8. The CBO can kiss my ass.

But if its true there will still be tens of millions of ininsured and it will be seriously failed policy the American people will never forget.

[MNDemNY]

9. The bill should be killed.

[Shagbark Hickory]

16. Then what?

[MNDemNY]

18. Have candidates run on Real Reform.

it is a winning issue.

[Shagbark Hickory]

22. Candidates like Blanche Lincoln & Mary Landreau?

[MNDemNY]

23. No, their primary opponents.

[Shagbark Hickory]

25. Their primary opponents will never be elected if the bill fails. nt

[Better Believe It]

15. They can. However, I don't see how that action will lower the cost!

[Ruby the Liberal]

17. The PO isn't going to be open to everyone to share the risk

It will be the dumping ground for the people who need the most care.

No question it will be more expensive than the plans who have better risk pooling ratios.

[MNDemNY]

19. It is , by design, set up to fail.

[Ruby the Liberal]

20. Exactly. nt

[slipslidingaway]

3. The PO is not open to everyone. n/t

[MNDemNY]

4. That is an understatement.

[slipslidingaway]

5. Yes and you are correct to remind people that the PO must be self-sustaining and

also pay back any start up money to the government.

I cannot believe so many Democrats are cheering this give away to the for profit companies.

[Dragonfli]

10. They cheer because they are no longer the party of the people

The so called centrists (GOP in drag) have been changing the party from within for a couple of decades now.
The party has devolved so far to the right that they resemble the GOP of 20 years ago much more than the Democrats I grew up with.

They are not the party of our memories or hopes, only a very few of them represent us anymore, the rest are simply Republicans working under a false flag for the betterment of the corporate persons they actually represent.

The Republicans have devolved into unapologetic fascists, leaving no party to represent the people - only individuals (and far too few of them) care about governing for the benefit of the PEOPLE.

This is why "the people" keep loosing every time the "sausage making" commences. We are the meat in the sausage being prepared for consumption by the very wealthy - we are their food and both parties sacrifice us like cattle without conscious.

I have yet to discover the solution to this dilemma - I worry that no one has.

[bvar22]

12. +1 Well Said.

I have no realistic solution.

In 2006, my wife and I moved to The Woods, began growing our own food, and are learning to Live Well on a very low taxable income.

[slipslidingaway]

13. So very true and it is best to look at everything that is said and done from this point of...

view so people are not fooled again.

:hi:

[Ruby the Liberal]

21. We need to go to the root of this.

Remove corporate personhood, make lobby activities illegal and reform campaign financing so that corporations can't buy elections.

[eomer]

11. Does anyone know what provision Dr. Dean is referring to?

The restriction on premium rating is pretty simple and doesn't appear to allow any variation due to pre-existing condition. The only variations allowed are due to age, geographic area, and family composition.

Is Dr. Dean's assertion due to a misreading of paragraph (1) below? Or is there a provision buried somewhere else in the bill that undoes what section 213 says?

SEC. 213. INSURANCE RATING RULES.

(a) In General- The premium rate charged for a qualified health benefits plan that is health insurance coverage may not vary except as follows:

(1) LIMITED AGE VARIATION PERMITTED- By age (within such age categories as the Commissioner shall specify) so long as the ratio of the highest such premium to the lowest such premium does not exceed the ratio of 2 to 1.

(2) BY AREA- By premium rating area (as permitted by State insurance regulators or, in the case of Exchange-participating health benefits plans, as specified by the Commissioner in consultation with such regulators).

(3) BY FAMILY ENROLLMENT- By family enrollment (such as variations within categories and compositions of families) so long as the ratio of the premium for family enrollment (or enrollments) to the premium for individual enrollment is uniform, as specified under State law and consistent with rules of the Commissioner.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:35:./temp/~c111PlzmYh:e131553:

[slipslidingaway]

14. Sorry I do not, my first thought was that maybe he had this confused with....

the age rating, but that would be hard to believe.

[indepat]

24. Seems the more corrupt, venal, and self-serving the Congress become, the more

ludicrouser their every action. :P

[slipslidingaway]

26. Yes :) not sure if Dean is correct about this or not...

at least he finally admitted that the bills have been significantly watered down, which is what some people have been saying since the proposed legislation this past summer.