New College Obesity Policy is Legal -It May Encourage Other Universities to Adopt Similar Ones

[The Straight Story]

Fatties Flunk - New College Obesity Policy is Legal // It May Encourage Other Universities to Adopt Similar Ones

2009-11-22 20:12:27 - A new policy which prevents college students who are obese from graduating unless they lose weight or complete a special course is legal, and may encourage healthier weight in several ways, says public interest law professor John Banzhaf, an obesity-litigation expert, who predicts that other universities may soon adopt it.

A report about the requirement in the Chronicle of Higher Education entitled "Lincoln U. Requires Its Students to Step on the Scale" described him as: "A professor of public-interest law at George Washington University, he has been dubbed 'The Man Who Is Taking Fat to Court' for his use of legal action to fight obesity"
chronicle.com/article/Lincoln-U-Requires-Its/49223/?utm_source=f ..(The+Chronicle%3A+Top+Stories)

Lincoln University's policy which requires students
who are obese -- as indicated by a Body Mass Index of 30 or more, or by another measure of body fat -- to either lose weight or to take an exercise course is being criticized by several so-called experts, but Prof. Banzhaf suggests the criticisms lack validity.

Physical fitness requirements, which were once common on many campuses, still remain at our nation's military academies, as well as universities such as VMI and The Citadel, so they obviously are neither illegal nor unprecedented, notes Banzhaf.

http://www.pr-inside.com/fatties-flunk-new-college-obesity-r1596437.htm

[JonQ]

1. This should get some interesting responses

Especially in light of recent bans on some college campuses of chewing tobacco. I see an interesting parallel here but I doubt this will get as much support (parallel being colleges banning behavior that only affects those engaging in it, not the general public).

[wickerwoman]

32. Is any university suggesting withholding your diploma

for chewing tobacco off campus?

There's a huge difference between banning behavior on campus (such as gum chewing, which was banned at my university because of the cost of cleaning it up) and denying the right to graduate because of behavior that takes place (in part) off campus.

[JonQ]

39. So it's wrong for individuals to be penalized

for making bad health choices that don't affect others?

[wickerwoman]

51. You can't ignore the scale of the penalty.

Asking someone to smoke, or chew gum or tobacco off-campus is not the same thing as denying a diploma that the student spent tens of thousands of dollars and four years working towards. Sorry, but that's not even close to the same league.

I don't really have a problem with fining people for not wearing seatbelts or speeding on an empty highway at 3am, but I think it's absurd to throw them in jail for it or call their employers and try to get them fired. It's all about proportion.

And I think it's wrong to fire smokers (and to do drug tests in positions where it doesn't directly affect safety such as cashiers) but I don't have a problem with limiting what people do when they are on/in the facilities of their job/school.

If schools want to ban Twinkies and Coke on campus, I say great. But they have no right to dictate what students do when they are not on campus and they certainly don't have the right to hold the student's financial future hostage until some arbitrary height-weight ratio is met, particularly when the causes of obesity are so poorly understood and can be so complex.

[JonQ]

80. Then don't bar them from graduating

just don't allow them to be fat on campus.

[Arctic Dave]

2. Fatty, fatty two by four, couldn't fit through the graduation door?

Gives a new look at the Greek way of teaching. Mind, body, spirit. Hmmmmm.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

3. There goes the football program.

[Lance_Boyle]

5. I would think participation in a sport

would satisfy the "or take a fitness class" option nicely. And I doubt that many member of the football team are obese - maybe a decent percentage of the linemen, but that's still a small number.

[fasttense]

4. I guess SUMO wrestling is out of the question. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

6. Body Mass Index of 30 or more: so if you're a 6' man over 220#,

or a 5'6" woman over 185, you'd be required to take the class.

[RedCappedBandit]

45. BMI is such a joke

I can't believe anybody who professes to be a professional on this subject would even recommend its usage.

[paulsby]

70. at my heaviest i was 225

at just under 5'10"

and i was not close to obese. i had my bf measured by an underwater test, and a caliper.

the problem with BMI is that it makes no distinction between muscle and fat.

muscle, fwiw, is heavier than fat per cubic centimeter.

[reggie the dog]

7. this is bullshit

it is akin to making us take a drug test to graduate college. You know what, I work out 4 or 5 days a week. I weigh the same 154 pounds for my 6 foot tall height that I did 12 years ago when I finished high school. If other people want to be fat, are happy eating a lot and not working out that I say that is fine. Of my American friends I am the skinniest, what does that change? does it make me somehow morally better? NO! People should be let to live their own lives. I would have failed a drug test in college for cannabis, MDMA, LSD, shrooms, and even opium and cocaine if they did hair testing. Would they have made me take a class in which I would have learned the virtues of alcohol and tobacco?????

[krabigirl]

8. agree with you

[Zodiak]

9. This is fucking stupid

Singling out people for their weight, forcing them to take an extra course for it, and denying them the degree they have earned......fucking insulting nanny state bullshit.

I cannot stand that we insist on judging others....this is a primary example of why we suck as a society. Can't get our nose out of everyone else's business....gotta judge judge judge or we might actually examine ourselves and find ourselves wanting. Can't have that, can we?

So let's go pick on fatty! It's all of the rage these days since gays, blacks, etc. have been taken off of the "legal to abuse" category.

Fat class? Yeah, there will be no social consequences to being in fat class, right?

And fat can only come from irresponsible eating behaviors right? No depression, hormone imbalances, etc?

The first person picked on for being in "fat class" I'm sure will thank these administrators for their gracious and caring attitude. I wonder when the first person kills themselves for being denied graduation and put into "fat class".....we should have a party! One less fat person for us perfect people to be forced to look at! Yay!!

Fucking assholes who know nothing of human behavior besides their own fucking smug judgment. I should put them in "asshole class" and have the shit kicked out of them daily. It's all for the "good of society", ya know!

[Lucian]

10. +1

[reggie the dog]

11. +2

[The Straight Story]

13. Overweight people. smokers, those who live in areas with a lot of pollution, etc cost us money

And money is the new god - submit to how we tell you how you should live, or be punished.

I get called a libertarian for believing in freedom - even though I am support the need for -sensible- govt regulations.

The ones that don't enforce the lifestyles/choices of one upon another (like abortion, the ability to choose where to drink, not being punished for what you eat, etc) and on a progressive website I am seen often as the bad guy.

Freedom for individuals and their choices, more regs on big companies.

[Zodiak]

16. I can agree with your analysis

It's the judgment thing that gets me. No one seems to even think about what consequences their judgment has on the judged.

Judgment of others is not christian (not that anyone on DU really cares about that), not American, and not liberal...it is nothing but projecting one's control onto others. It's an authoritarian construct and I fucking hate it.

[Odin2005]

31. +1,000,000. I consider myself a Left-Libertarian.

Fuck the Nanny Statists.

[paulsby]

72. it's a private school. duh. there is no STATE action

involved. is it nanny'ish? of course. but has NOTHING to do with statism

[whistler162]

36. People.who live cost us money - FIXED!

[Hannah Bell]

48. smokers are a net gain to the economy.

[EOTE]

20. Your post pretty much says it all. NT

[Kalyke]

27. Welcome to a smoker's world.

Smokers have been warning about this slippery slope forever.

I understand protected non-smoking areas, but areas (indoors) for smokers also should exist. Businesses should be able to make that choice (and their employees can move from smoking to non-smoking venues, if they choose, too).

Many smokers find the excessive nanny naggers as smug.

[reggie the dog]

54. so have us reefers

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

65. Get back to me when being in the same room with a fat person becomes detrimental to your health.

:eyes:

[JonQ]

81. They've also begun banning chewing tobacco on campuses

which harms no one but the person doing it. So I don't think public health is really the issue (as in other people, not engaged in that activity).

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

82. Yeah, that's stupid. It's the smoke that's harmful.

Not the sight of people doing things you don't like.

Should be challenged IMHO.

[NikolaC]

61. +1000 n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. PE used to be mandatory

and though it is not that crazy of an idea... colleges and universities have slashed their PE departments, as well as other departments... so you need to take a class? Ok... but there are no sections.

Now we should have PE in school, but this is to a point stoooopid, unless you happen to be an ROTC cadet... then PRT comes to mind.

[Skidmore]

14. I wonder how much this has to do with students' physical health really.

I'll bet a dollar to your donut that this move will help shore up phys. ed departments and pay coaches fat salaries when universities and colleges will experience backlash to cutting academics in the current economy. All those phys. ed courses equals a lot of revenue.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Of course I suspect that is part of it

reality is that Phys Ed programs have ahem... issues...

[Lance_Boyle]

23. Do you really think the Mike Krzysewskis and Butch Davises will be teaching

the fitness classes? The phys ed classes would have zero at all to do with revenue sports, likely being led by underpaid TAs reporting to underpaid associate professors.

[gkhouston]

38. It was when I was in college... and for zero credit hours. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

49. not in college.

[Better Today]

17. I'm slender with high metabolism, even so this is BS. I can understand if they want to

say that any non-disabled person has to be able to complete certain physical tests, like lifting, so much distance in so much time, etc. that would likely mean that the more obese would not be able to "pass." But to say that obese folks have to partake in something not required for slender or average students is complete bullshit. Everything at a university/college/school should be based on being able to complete a task or a test, not pre-determined based on your physicalities. I know some pretty hefty folks that are still quite physically adept, strong, hearty, and healthy.
Edited to add: and I know quite a few scrawny folks that are not at all healthy spending all their time in front of a tube of some sort, smoking a lot, eating very little.

[ohheckyeah]

18. I do believe smokers

warned everybody that the over weight people would be the next.

[Better Today]

19. Yes, we did. Even so, this is so wrong.

[Zodiak]

21. The only good thing about this is...

...eventually they'll get to the "assholes".

But not before every other "undesirable" is singled out and ridden like an old mule.

[ohheckyeah]

25. I doubt they will ever get to the assholes because

"they" are the assholes.

[reggie the dog]

55. that we did

[GreenArrow]

22. How is this "legal"?

This nation is seriously ill.

[pleah]

26. That's what I want to know. n/t

[KamaAina]

28. Apparently, because some obscure professor says it is

:eyes:

[paulsby]

73. because it's a PRIVATE SCHOOL

as long as they outline the criteria to graduate to APPLICANTS, it's legal.

you can vote with your dollar to choose another school.

that's complete tangential to whether this is a bad idea or a good idea.

just that it's a legal practice

[juno jones]

24. Brings to mind an old friend from college days

'Debbie' was fat. About 5' 3-4" and probably 250 lbs.

But she was also fit. I met her in aerobics class and struggled to keep up with her. I remember her telling me that she couldn't do anything about the fat, but she could still work on fitness.

By any standard, she was obese, but she was far healthier than some of the skinny little girls (many of them smokers) in my PE classes.

This is a terrible precedent.

The smokers were right, and fat's not something you can sneak out back when no-one's around.

[treestar]

34. Good point

A lot of smokers would fit under the weight category. But are they in any better health?

Anti-depressants can cause people to put on weight, too. Would they rather the students be depressed?

Stupid, stupid school.

[Avalux]

29. So....a student pays thousands for his education, yet is flunked for being obese.

How the heck is that legal??

[Odin2005]

30. I'm fat and think this is fucking BS!

A person's weight has nothing to do with their academic performance. This is pure bigotry.

[Quantess]

52. I'm slim and I agree that this is fucking BS!

It's really none of the University's business.

[treestar]

33. If it's only taking the course

And they still get the diploma after taking the course, no matter how much they weigh after the course, and everyone had to take it, then it might be OK.

I see some very anorexic women at my gym and wonder if they are in such great shape. Maybe require the skinnies to take it too, to build up some real muscles. I don't think they are any healthier really.

[Johonny]

37. I agree

The stupid part is that only a certain section of the student body has to take the class. I don't understand why all students would not benefit from the health class. Particularly because this stuff use to be covered in high school but sadly isn't in many cases. A good health class with sex education, diet, exercise, alcohol consumption, smoking... would probably be good for anyone wanting a rounded liberal arts education.

[KamaAina]

35. Discriminatory against certain ethnic groups, and some people with disabilities.

Samoans and Tongans, for instance, tend to be fat. And some medical treatments, like steroids for rheumatoid arthritis, cause weight gain.

Body nazi FAIL.

[lightningandsnow]

67. My girlfriend is overweight due to a medication she takes for Schizophrenia.

Seriously, this pisses me off to no end.

[ElboRuum]

40. It may very well be...

...and if it is, it should be made ILLEGAL at the first opportunity.

[ddeclue]

41. That's nothing.. Georgia Tech used to require you take a "drownproofing" course basically

downed naval aviator water survival...

[Sultana]

42. Sounds good to me

[petronius]

43. In a general sense, I like the idea of our educational system teaching a broad array

of life skills - physical fitness, nutrition, swimming, how to drive, sexual health, etc etc - but I've always thought it belonged in high school. Even so, I would support a general PE requirement in the college curriculum (we have lots of PE electives, after all) but I don't like this BMI-based coercion...

[RedCappedBandit]

44. LOL - They use the BMI? What a joke.

Aside from that, I don't see a problem with mandatory physical fitness courses. However, they should be mandatory for all. To discriminate against overweight people is complete, utter, bullshit.
Some of the thinnest people I know are also some of the unhealthiest, most 'out of shape ones' as well.

[bergie321]

46. I bet

This school still takes money from fast food giants to sell their crap food in the student union...

[gmoney]

47. "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son." - Dean Wormer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK-Dqj4fHmM

I guess two out of three is OK now.

[winyanstaz]

50. Slender, healthy people who live forever cost us money!

They use up more of the assets of the world.
They cost more when they live so long as well as they leave a bigger carbon footprint from being around so much.
They go to the doctors more due to the fact they are hanging around the planet for so long.
Because they work so hard at looking right they use up more material for new clothes as well as they fill up the land fills with all those shoes that are so last years.
More animals and plants have to die to feed them longer.
They are breathing up more of the oxygen and God knows they are farting more when they live so much longer. This puts more carbon dioxide in the air and so the healthy are definitely the ones that are causing global warming!
Because slim healthy people are more "beautiful" they are having more sex...and we all know where that leads us...to more unwanted babies and more social diseases!
They use up more toilet paper and force us to cut down more trees just because they will be around to wipe their butts so much longer then the unhealthy.
I say fine the crap out of the healthy people, deny them a diploma and force them to have a banana split at least once a day! :)

[truedelphi]

53. You forgot the part about the great food they eat and then

Barf up but your other points are funny ones.

[winyanstaz]

76. hah..good point..yes ..they waste food .

;)

[Festivito]

56. Will they make SKINNY people fatten themselves???

Low BMIs are at more risk than extremely obese. Overweight people actually fare better than the so-called normal, prettier BMI people.

So, will they really do what is best, or are they just more stupid people at a Peter Principle Palace.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7069598

EDIT spel'n

[whistler162]

57. I was expecting a skinny law professor

http://banzhaf.net/

Wonder what his indexes are?

[Gwendolyn]

58. Wow! What an extraordinary man. His CV is amazing!

Fighting against fast food corps and for the rights of women is A-okay in my book.

Edited to add: people think he's championing this policy at a university he's not affiliated with. That isn't so. He's only commenting on the legality of the policy. It's unfair to plop fault onto his lap.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

59. It Will Go Absolutely Nowhere & The Pres. of Lincoln U is an Idiot

Universities and colleges across the nation are suffering record low enrollment and retention rates and these bozos want to penalize potential graduates for their weight? Brilliant!

My guess is that the effect upon their bottom line will be apparent by the end of the academic year and the moron who instigated this policy is going to have to justify its failure to the school. I also guess that the idiot administrator who thought it up in the first place will get to stick around while the faculty takes the fall: that seems to be the way these initiatives. Banzhaf better hope he has tenure; he's an easier target that the real fools, who always make sure their ass is covered.

[Love Bug]

60. I hope any college that adopts this policy loses every overweight student

to another, less restrictive college. Considering how half the country is fat, that should send a message. If the concern is for student health, are they planning to do the same to smokers and binge-drinkers? Yeah, I thought so. Can't lose all that tuition revenue, don't cha know.

I'm outraged by this.

[hayu_lol]

62. Once they get rid of the fatties...

they can then concentrate on the skinnies. Ummm...and after that, they can ban brown-eyed people or whatever else takes their fancy.

Getting awful close to the edge of that famous 'cliff.'

[alp227]

75. Yeah, shouldn't EVERY student who lives an "unhealthy" lifestyle get the SAME intervention?

On my way home I heard about this on NPR's "All Things Considered".

Other groups of students who should be targeted, if the college REALLY cares about student health:
- Hardcore partiers, ravers
- Underage drinkers
- Student pimps (y'know, those who sleep with too many sorority girls, hee hee)
- All-nighters

Those are just a few of the unhealthy things people do in college.

Also, if the college imposes the obesity standard yet ignores these types, as well as people with REAL mental issues that might put people in harm's way, the college has got its priorities crooked. And besides, shouldn't some people NEED to be big-bodied (trying to find a more PC term than "fat") for their jobs...if they wanna be cops, linebackers, wrestlers, or corrections officers?

[meow2u3]

63. GPA, not BMI, should be the only standard used in order to graduate from school.

There ought to be a law which bans discrimination on the basis of weight, be it excess or lack. No one should have to pass a weight test to graduate from college, despite their academic qualifications. This is discrimination, plain and simple. IOW, some people are being flunked solely because of their weight, sometimes due to no fault of their own, such as being on medications with side effects of weight gain or medical or genetic conditions which cause them to be fat despite eating no more than their skinnier peers.


It's appalling that people go out of their way to find new people to hate and to create a new underclass of outcasts just because they have the power to do so. It's a pure pretext if you ask me.

[ElboRuum]

74. +1googolplex.

:thumbsup:

[LisaL]

64. Hard to believe this is for real.

What business is it of college to do this?

[Lex]

66. Having solved all the alcohol and date rape problems at college,

they turn their attention to the fat kids.

Nice.

[ensho]

68. I'd like to see univ/colleges flunk students that get drunk regularly

or drunk and disorderly

drunkenness on campus has gone over the line

[paulsby]

69. as long as applicants are advised of the policy and

it's a private school, it certainly is legal

of course the BMI is not a good way to measure obesity. i've ranked as obese several times, and never was i over 17% bodyfat. it uses weight as a proxy for fat. that works with sedentary people, but many athletes who are NOT obese will register as same because muscle weight is not distinguished from fat weight.

[Kievan Rus]

77. It's discrimination. No different than a private school discriminating against Afro-Americans....

which is illegal under the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

[Love Bug]

78. Unfortunately, the obese are not a protected class like Afro-Americans

Unless someone actually challenges this in court, colleges can probably get away with this. I recall several years ago the fundamentalist college Oral Roberts University had the same policy, except I think they didn't enroll someone fat, which is different than taking your money for four years then denying you a diploma.

[Gwendolyn]

79. Lincoln U is predominately populated by African Americans.

That's ostensibly why the admin started this policy. Black people have higher rates of obesity -- 20% higher rate of diabetes, 40% higher rate of high blood pressure, more deaths related to heart disease, etc. They were hoping to educate students and start decreasing the numbers.

Hearts are probably in the right place.

[Barack_America]

71. Wow. Way too far. I'm shocked to hear this might be legal.

Absolutely appalling.