Americans of all political bents would just like to see some value for their tax dollars

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

I think this is the common thread that unites the left and the right, the two groups just go about it differently.

I don't mind paying taxes, but for the amount of the US budget, very little of value filters down to the average W2 wage earner like me. I see the vast majority of my tax dollar going to WAR everlasting. The schools stink for the most part, we have no national or regional mass transit to speak of, public education is variable and inconsistent, the food in the marketplace poisons me, my utilities and insurance go through the roof regularly,etc. Anyone with a brain would have to wonder at some point, "where is my money going?" And lately, the incredible and insulting answer to that question is that my money is going to pay and retain people who brought our financial system to its knees through their greed and recklessness and now I have to pay them for continuing to do the same with bonus money on top. Who can avoid cynicism about the entire system being simply a Ponzi scheme with the American citizen as the mark?

The only things which jump out immediately as having returned real value for the tax dollar to the US citizen are our 2 great social accomplishments - Social Security and Medicare, 2 programs that despite our usual incompetence and greed somehow made it through a US legislature.

I understand the teabaggers, a bit. They see the same thing I see - no one in government is doing squat for them. Who can blame them for feeling that way? My left leaning thought process tells me to improve and even grow a crappy government so that I get SOMETHING from it, their right leaning thought process tells them to shut it down altogether as a failed proposition.


The issue in the healthcare debate is that all sides actually know that what is being proposed is a bandaid on a severed limb. The left is willing to accept it as an entryway to more and better improvement. The right sees it as more government dollars down a rathole that won't ultimately do what it is supposed to do. We can blame them for that situation as they are the ones who are largely responsible for our current state, but YET ----

who made the largest and most irreversible mistake of not allowing the country to have an HONEST debate about healthcare reform? It was President Obama when he removed single payer advocates from the discussion.

We on the left are currently in the terrible position of being forced into promoting and accepting a flawed program which enshrines even further a failed system and even uses it as the jumping off point for pricing (!) because it's the best we can expect from our current leaders and politicians.

[natrat]

1. yea, and i'd like to see the easter bunny

[Shagbark Hickory]

2. +1 for your efforts but I disagree. I don't think the right or libertardians want value for their..

tax dollars.

When I've had this discussion with them in the past I've asked them, wouldn't you like to see the government at least do something useful with all that money you claim they steal from you each year or each quarter?

The answer is always a resounding no. For these folks, they view the government as totally incompetent. They think any regulation, no matter how serious the problem that caused it, is putting us on the road to a communist nanny state and that they should butt out.

The right wing and libertardians, especially the latter are like bratty teenagers asking for keys to the car so they can go out with their friends but don't want to play by mom and dads rules. These folks depend on the govt to provide the services and policies and opportunities that will benefit them, for everything else, it's BUTT OUT, mom & dad!

They were born without a brain.
A for your efforts tho.

[izquierdista]

3. THEIR government is totally incompetent

They keep selecting people like Hoover, Nixon, and a couple of Bushes to represent them and we all know how that turned out. I would only add to you analogy, that these bratty teenagers really don't know how to drive yet -- can't judge the speed of oncoming traffic, can't parallel park, take undue risks, think the CD player is the most important item on the dashboard. They really aren't mature enough to vote yet, but the requirements say nothing about maturity, just that you have to be over 18.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

4. But don't you think that if some dollars had been more effectively used

in the past for things like mass transit, that they would have a better and clearer idea of the uses and role of government? I think they are cynical and pessimists, and I understand why they are. They are fed up with government in general because government has failed them in the past.

Democrats and liberals are the eternal optimists. We/They think and believe that change for the better is always a possibility.

I think the healthcare debate failed with the right/conservative/ teabaggers by not stately clearly the value proposition of healthcare reform : What's In It For You. President Obama tried but failed to make that presentation. The value proposition should be framed as HEALTHCARE SECURITY, just like National Security, Social Security, etc. A health saftey net that will not allow anyone to fall through the cracks anymore, lose their home, go bankrupt, etc.

The problem in presentation now is simply that we have not delivered real healthcare reform.Ooops!

[Shagbark Hickory]

8. The way they see spending is similar to how I used to feel about public school funding.

Seeing as how I haven't spawned and don't plan to, I was always irritated at the amount of my property tax that goes to public schools. I felt like if I am not directly benefiting from this resource then I shouldn't have to pay for it. This of course goes against my strong socialist ideologies on everything else. As it turns out, it's not that a percentage of my tax $ going towards education that bothers me (I'm advocate for free med school tuition for example which I wouldn't use either) but instead the concept of property tax which is a substantial amount that is assessed whether I have income coming in or not.

So to answer your question, if they aren't benefiting from the public transport then they don't want it and they don't want to pay for it no matter how efficient it is.

[Fumesucker]

5. Nah, they just want the government to do what they want it to do..

Try taking away their Medicare..

Try ending the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Try ending the drug war and releasing a bunch of non-violent convicts.

See how loudly they squeal.

There are some few exceptions to this but for the great majority that's how they think.

[kctim]

6. Excellent post Phoebe

Such commonsense is very much needed by all of us in dealing with the problems of today.

The MAIN hurdle is in how the two sides look at and define "value for their tax dollars."

[rucky]

7. K&R

The partisan wars are perfect cover for the class war that's really going on.