What the fuck is 60 minutes doing

[Sebastian Doyle]

This is the second time they have run a Medicare bashing story in the last month. Are they in on this DLC scam to corporatize Medicare, or is it some other douchebaggery to fuel teabagger hysteria?

[stray cat]

1. Pointing out ways Medicare is abused or could be improved doesn't strike me as bad

Running un-needed procedures on people so hospitals can make money is not in the best interest of the patient either.

[Sebastian Doyle]

3. Steve "corporate shill" Kroft is definitely coming at this with an anti-government spin.

And it's not a coincidence that they ran the first story right around the time of the House bill, and are running this one now.

This is not Mike Wallace's 60 minutes anymore. Just another corporate fellation hour posing as "news" :evilfrown:

[Enthusiast]

49. It is CBS, after all.

It is only going to get worse.

[Captain Hilts]

4. Notice the OP blames Dems, not Republicans for this. nt

[Sebastian Doyle]

5. Note that you need glasses

When did I blame Democrats for anything?

Is Steve Kroft a Democrat? I doubt it.

[BzaDem]

7. "DLC scam to corporatize Medicare"

Hmm. Rather than attack Republicans who actually have a proposed piece of legislation to replace Medicare with private insurance vouchers, you attack the DLC, which has never done so (or even come close).

[dflprincess]

10. Check out this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7030049#7030099

Of all the various blocs and gangs that have been formed in Congress this year, Senators Bayh, Conrad, Feinstein, Lieberman and Warner have managed to form the most regressive one yet. Currently, these five Democrats are demanding that Speaker Pelosi hand over all relevant Congressional power to an independent commission that will be allowed to slash and partially privatize Social Security and Medicare, or else they will allow the United States to default on its debt.

DLC/Blue Dogs - whatever you want to call them, they want to at least partially privatize Social Security and/or Medicare. After all, 401Ks worked out so well for us. :sarcasm:

[slipslidingaway]

22. Thank you! nt

[Hannah Bell]

46. Bayh has been beating the SS privatization drum a long time. too.

[clear eye]

53. This has come straight from the WH

see my post on this from way back in July when Peter Orzag, head of the OMB, was the one twisting arms.

[Captain Hilts]

9. You mused that it's part of a DLC plot. 'D' stands for Democrat.

[Sebastian Doyle]

15. East Germany and North Korea referred to themselves as "Democratic" republics too

And the name fit them about as well as it does the DLC. Who are neither Democrats, nor leaders.

[Captain Hilts]

25. Why do you think the DLC runs CBS? I think it's republicans. nt

[Ken Burch]

16. Not when it's followed by "LC", it doesn't.

The DLC are Republican in their votes. Their actual party affiliation is irrelevant. Why defend them? Unless you're a millionaire, they don't defend you.

[Captain Hilts]

24. Why blame only DLC for this report. The DLC didn't fire Dan Rather. R's at CBS did. nt

[Ken Burch]

26. The R's deserve blame too. But you've got to let go of the idea that attacking the DLC

is an attack on Democrats. It isn't. The DLC isn't on our side any more than the GOP is.

[inna]

18. DINOs. That's what D stands for in this case.

And please stop being an apologist for abhorrent policies, it's really disgusting.

[Captain Hilts]

23. Who said I believe in this??? I think CBS is Republican. Look what they did to Rather.

WHERE do you get that I support those who trash Medicare?

[BzaDem]

6. It is pathological. n/t

[Ken Burch]

14. The DLC are NOT Democrats

Nice try, though.

[dflprincess]

29. +10000

[bvar22]

52. The OP did NOT blame "Democrats".

He blamed the DLC....and rightly so.
The Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party supports REAL Health Care Reform.

[NYC_SKP]

2. With two 80+y.o. parents, one in hospitals for most of this year, I appreciate the segment. And...

...much of it is true.

[mattvermont]

8. recently there, as well

educate families so that they are making these decisions prior to the immediate need.

[Cleita]

13. Remember the death panels? That was what that was all about.n/t

[Cleita]

12. So are you going to pull the plug?

It seems that both your parents and you have spent a lifetime paying into Medicare. Now isn't it time to get the benefits you have paid for all your life?

[NYC_SKP]

17. You clearly don't have the experience to know what I'm talking about.

The mismanagement and miscommunication in healthcare is unbelievable.

Medicare plus TriCare means carte blance on anything.

It's unsustainable without overhaul.

Pull the plug?

I'll won't say what I'm thinking about that comment.

[Cleita]

19. Oh really? I only buried two parents and a husband all on Medicare. I never saw

the excesses you seem to think occur. I agree with the prolonging life support when it's no longer reasonable. That happened with my father. My mother and I begged the doctors not to prolong his life but to let him die in peace. But back then they were legally obligated to revive and put on life support any patient until they died a "natural" death. Fortunately, my dad died after the resuscitations, broken ribs and other atrocities while he was being transported back to the ICU. My mother and husband were more fortunate. My mother died in hospice care from terminal cancer and my husband had a heart attack that finished him off. My husband had a terminal illness that we were preparing to put him into hospice care for and he died before it was necessary. Whatever end of life health care they had was expensive but for god's sake, they had worked hard all their lives paying their taxes. I still ended up paying a whole lot out of pocket in spite of it. So don't say, I don't have any experience with it.

[NYC_SKP]

20. So, what parts of the 60 Minutes segment were incorrect or misleading?

:shrug:

[Cleita]

27. The part where they don't explain why the extra tests weren't

necessary. They only seem to come up with the pap smear thing for an eighty year old woman. I still get a pap smears and I'm almost seventy. Cervical cancer can happen at any age and it could have been lying there unnoticed because the elderly patient had other more visible diseases going on. They also don't explain that Medicare doesn't pay for all of it. So if those families were paying the co-pays, it seems that Medicare wasn't solely at fault here, if there was a fault. Also, the fact that the fellow who wanted a liver and lung transplant would have been denied, not because of his age, but because most transplant surgeons don't want to risk a surgery like that on an elderly patient because of the risk. Yes, that old malparactice liability thing. I think that doctor was an insurance company shill myself, but I guess I will have to research it first before I make accusations. Sixty eight isn't that old, but he was allowed to die, not because Medicare wouldn't have paid for the transplant, but the surgeons were afraid that their insurance wouldn't pay for malpractice if they were sued. There was so much not explained in that story after the sensationalist portions of it were thrown out for the gullible to swallow.

[Cleita]

11. It sure seems like it.

What are they advocating, that people get end of life counseling that was bashed as death panels? Or just that we should have our Smith and Wesson's ready with the bullet when we can no longer get end of life care? It seems to me that at the age those people were, who were profiled, that they had spent a lifetime paying into Medicare and various other insurance schemes, shouldn't they be able to have the tests and caring they need at the end of their lives? Incidentally I am older than any of the patients on that show and I only go to the doctor for yearly exams and if I need some extra care, just like young people. That actually scares me that when I will need actual end of life care that I won't get it because of efforts by these people to stop it.

[slipslidingaway]

21. kick to watch later - I remember the other 60 minutes segment. n/t

[grantcart]

28. Boy did you miss the whole point

They are laying out the point that a religiously obsessed population has made it impossible to have a rational discussion about allocating resources and the avoidance of Americans to face end of life realities and the best use of resources to effect actual quality of life.

They made it quite clear that all other industrialized countries have a much more effective and humane care at a much lower cost with their single payer systems that are not influenced by irrational fear of death.

[Johonny]

30. flipped by it and heard this highlight

85 % of these bills are paid by the Government and the insurance companies not the patients! You were suppose to be like jaw dropping OMG that's unfair out ragged. Unless you know where the Guv'ment and those insurance companies get their money. OMG insurance companies and the Government our using our money we give them to pay for peoples health care. What a truly unjust world we live in.

[TreasonousBastard]

31. I get it! No one can criticize Medicare, even if...

the criticisms are true.

Medicare is perfect, so anyone daring to criticize it, however mildly, must be a rightwing pantload.

(Thus sayeth the True Progressive Truth Brigade)

[Cleita]

32. Since my Medicare isn't perfect, although

right now it makes me feel secure about my future health care needs, I guess I should agree that it's a bunch of crap and go out and die in a field like a feral cat. That's the message that I got from this report because it's the right thing to do. I'm looking for my ice floe here.

[LeFleur1]

33. End of Life

I don't know what is so bad about end of life counseling. I don't want to lie in a hospital shoved full of tubes, half conscious, if at all, for months while someone is getting rich running tests and machines. Here's a clue. We Are Going To Die. I'd like some information and some say in the matter.

[Algorem]

34. last week 60 minutes proved sadaam had weapons of mass destruction(water)

noone seemed to mind that

[avaistheone1]

35. Oh jeez...what has become of 60 Minutes?

Since Don Hewitt left running the show (and recently passed away) 60 Minutes has sucked. imo

[TheWebHead]

36. did you watch the same report as me?

this end of life issue is a gigantic problem with the fiscal future of the country. It's pretty obvious that the govt is petrified of saying no to anyone for anything for fear of being told they're "pulling the plug on grandma" so we continue to engage in an orgy of end of life spending.. And if we can't make the difficult choices in limiting care for those nearing the end of their life, you have to wonder if a public option for people of all pre-retirement ages would be able to say no either.

If you have your own money to pay for healthcare, spend spend spend, but if you're draining reserves from the government, then we need fiscally responsible guideposts.

[Cleita]

37. Oh dear!

The whole point of spending a lifetime into paying into FICA is so you have a pension and medical care at the end of your life. Now you think the people who did this their whole lives like me are draining reserves from the government? I think we are draining the reserves that we paid for you RW jerk! Besides that, it's money you can't steal. FDR made sure of that and so did LBJ.

[Electric Monk]

38. "so you have a pension and medical care at the end of your life."

Feel free to elaborate. Is that two weeks, two months, or two decades, or what? If you're already dying of liver cancer kidney cancer and brain cancer, is it worthwhile to implant a defibrillator to make sure your heart keeps on ticking whatever else is going wrong, regardless? How about a new hip?

[Cleita]

41. Actually, after working all my life and paying into the system,

I'm ready to shoot myself because you hate that I might get a benefit from it. I hope you are ready to do it yourself when your time comes because you didn't pay into the system, just like you like.

[Electric Monk]

42. Way to totally miss the point and not answer the question. nt

[Cleita]

43. Please explain your accusations of missing the point and not answering the

question.

What was your point?

What was your question?

Nothing you posted was clear.

[Electric Monk]

44. We're both making different assumptions and talking past each other

instead of talking to each other. Please, let me try again tomorrow when I've had a chance to sleep on it.

[TheWebHead]

39. again, did you watch the report

they're talking about dozens of tests, multiple organ transpants, $400k procedures... the system without any attention paid to the money going out eventually collapses as medical costs and innovations add layers to the system. The end of life spending balloons well beyond any money a person would pay into the system. There's no pot of gold at the end of a rainbow to continue financing the system as described in Kroft's report.

[Cleita]

40. Oh brother! You don't get it. All health care again reduced to money.

Yet nobody gives a damn about all the money spent on warfare.

[leftstreet]

45. +1

[cornermouse]

50. The reality is that medicare is not carte blanche

in spite of what they did or did not say last night. Just because a procedure was performed doesn't mean that Medicare paid for it. Rules are strict and sometimes difficult to follow. Kroft's report, as stated here, is not entirely accurate or truthful.

[Cleita]

51. Yes, I watched the report and I noticed that they are trying to say

that dying is too expensive. The potential transplant patient wasn't old enough to be on Medicare so I don't know who would have paid for it. I'm sorry but dying in a hospital bed with care and medication is expensive. My point is that if you pay into Medicare all your life and everyone does, then you deserve what care you get at the end of your life. As far as that guy being kept on life support, it's because he probably hadn't made an durable power of attorney and his family wouldn't pull the plug until months later. This was the big deal about "death panels", a procedure that would bring families and terminal patient together to educate them on their options. Of course the pro-lifers objected so I don't know where that stands right now. There is so much that wasn't explained in that report but the sensational aspect of it was cherry picked to make people think what you just said. I know people who have had multiple transplants starting when they were young. The transplant organ wears out sooner than a normal organ, so that in a life time some people may have two or three. Should they die when they don't have to because they shouldn't get multiple transplants? Really, this report could have been done by the insurance companies because it gives them more reason to deny coverage.

[Hannah Bell]

47. bullshit. it's a "problem" only for the financial class, who'd prefer to get the bucks themselves.

fuck em all.

[Lagomorph]

48. Dude, try to understand!

First his son wants a Bugatti, and then sis wants one, they want the jet on the same weekends, personal bodyguards in Aruba, Paris, Istanbul or wherever...next thing you know you have to downgrade the Rolex's for Christmas.

Dude, it's HARD!