USA Today: Ex-FBI agent who witnessed JFK's autopsy: "I don't buy the single-bullet theory"

[mcablue]

Predictably, the newspaper buried the statement deep into the article, instead of using it as the headline, but here it is:

USA TODAY: 11-22-09:

"I don't buy the single-bullet theory," Sibert said. "I won't go as far as to say there was no conspiracy."

Sibert and O'Neill's report, titled "Autopsy of Body of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy," stated that Commander James J. Humes, who conducted the autopsy, noted another wound.

"During the latter stages of this autopsy, Dr. Humes located an opening which appeared to be a bullet hole which was below the shoulders and two inches to the right of the middle line of the spinal column," Sibert and O'Neill reported.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-11-22-jfk-assassination-anniversary_N.htm?csp=34&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+usatoday-NewsTopStories+(News+-+Top+Stories)&utm_content=Google+Reader


A bullet below the shoulders, of course, cannot possibly come out of the spot just above the adams' apple.

Humes was part of the cover-up, by the way.

[Bolo Boffin]

1. The position of JFK when being shot

shows that the back wound was the entrance wound and the neck wound the exit wound. Please be careful when saying something isn't possible.

As a matter of fact, a line drawn from JFK's neck wound through the back wound goes right up to the sixth floor window where Oswald was.

[mcablue]

2. Sibert wasn't talking about the position. He was talking about the would he saw with his eyes

Kennedy was shot in the throat. That's why Parkland doctors described this wound as an entrance wound at first. Then they backtracked.

[CatWoman]

3. I take it you're a believer of the single bullet theory?

[Bolo Boffin]

54. One bullet hit JFK and then hit Connolly, yes.

Despite much misinformation put out about this, the actual positions of JFK and Connolly at the time of the second shot are in perfect alignment for those wounds. You can even see Connolly's lapel flip up when he's struck.

[LLStarks]

69. That lapel flip is something I hadn't noticed before. Thanks. nt

[CatWoman]

78. Amazing

someone still believes that in this day and age.

Unbelievable...........

[jberryhill]

79. Can you answer a simple question?

Where did the bullet that hit Connaly in the back come from?

Thanks in advance

[CatWoman]

86. I'm sorry, I can't answer these questions

and you know full well I can't.

However, I have many, many questions myself: like how can a bullet strike one person, get a blowjob, smoke a cigarette, take a nap, then change direction and plow into someone's arm and leg. :shrug:

[CatWoman]

87. oops

oh yeah, then after doing all that (and grabbing a bite to eat at IHOP) wind up in near perfect condition on the floor of the limo

again :shrug:

[jberryhill]

93. It's a simple question

Where did the bullet that hit Connaly come from?

Have you ever seen this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBXW1-VGmM
 

[Bolo Boffin]

96. I think you're confused about what that bullet actually did.

Namely, hit two people seated front-to-back of each other.

[Octafish]

117. No. You're confused about what happened. Bullets can't do magic.

Here ya go, buddy:

HSCA Testimony of Cyril Wecht



CE-399, the "magic bullet," is the first on the left.
The next two over were fired into cotton wadding.
The second from the right was fired into water.
The distorted bullet on the right passed through the rib of a goat cadaver.

The thing is, there are many pieces of bullet embedded in Gov. Connally's body than were missing from CE-399.



Connally Wounding

Like followers of the Amazing Randi would say, "Now THAT's a magic bullet!"

For more:

The Magic Bullet: Even More Magical Than We Knew?

[CoffeeCat]

109. OMG...I'm torn...

Your post was so damn clever and funny--but it is in the context of an assassination.

So I'm laughing hysterically--on the inside.

You're good!

[Bolo Boffin]

95. Yes, I've got this thing about the facts and the evidence.

I try my best not to let my emotions and my beliefs cloud them. But that's just me.

:eyes:

[CatWoman]

100. nother question: are you two Ying and Yang?

[Bolo Boffin]

101. Could you dial back the contempt a bit, CatWoman?

Your shit. Getting old.

[H2O Man]

6. Gosh.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[johnnie]

15. Ha

[dbt]

16. Nice try!

Please be careful when saying something IS possible, eh?

:evilgrin:

[smoogatz]

26. Wasn't JFK's back below his neck, like most people's?

Or did he for just the moment that the shot was fired stand on his head in the limo's back seat? Otherwise I'm pretty sure there's no way a shot could have come from above and behind, entered the back and then exited several inches above it just below the Adam's apple.

What the FBI agent is talking about is a third wound. Whether there's any truth to it or not is another story.

[FatDave]

41. Try this.

Take your left hand, reach behind your head and touch your upper back. Now take your left finger and touch your neck below the Adam's apple. Which hand is higher? In my case, I've got a whole lot of back higher than my Adam's apple. Especially if I'm leaning forward slightly and ducking a bit, the way somebody might after having just heard a gun shot.

[JackRiddler]

55. Sometimes people come up with any remote possibility to deny what parsimony suggests.

What's the big deal? The coup d'etat of 1963 fit right into business as usual, not at all "extraordinary."

[FatDave]

59. And other times....

...people come up with ridiculously convoluted stories because they can't believe a single person can wreak so much mayhem.

[JackRiddler]

66. I have no trouble believing one person alone can wreak mayhem...

But that's not even remotely what the events of November 22nd, 1963 suggest. Nor is it the "simpler" explanation for the sum total of facts associated with the assassination.

The nation of empire, the one that sponsors coup d'etats as a routine matter of state, is liable to experience a few itself. It's nothing extraordinary in historical context. The surprise would be if it hadn't happened.

The other surprise is how many smart people will go through contortions to convince themselves otherwise.

[FatDave]

70. In what world...

...is a coup d'etat followed by a cover-up involving high-ranking members of the House, Senate, CIA and FBI a simpler explanation than a single kook who was good with a rifle? I swear, it's like trying to explain evolution to creationists. It's not as good a story, but all the facts point to it.

[JackRiddler]

103. In this one:

[CoffeeCat]

110. Given what we SEE currently...

...in our government--assassination of a President who would not play along--is pretty much
standard fare.

Look at what this crime syndicate has done to our country, our constitution and look how many
Iraqis and American soldiers have died--so they can make some dough. These people are the
Hannibal Lecters of politics. Their blood pressure doesn't get above 85 when they're murdering,
lying, destroying democracy, torturing or assassinating.

Frankly, I'm shocked that anyone would believe that assassination would be out of the question.

Yeah, people who torture, orphan Iraqi children and pillage countries--in order to dominate the
world--are just so-not-capable of getting rid of a President who could thwart their efforts. :eyes:

Hell, most Congress members act as if they're scared of being assassinated, set up or retaliated against...

..and like Obama doesn't realize what these jackals are capable of?

[ellenfl]

39. so he was standing on his head when shot?

"the back wound was the entrance wound and the neck wound the exit wound"

in order for your scenario to apply, his back would have had to be higher than his neck for a shot from above or he would have had to be shot from below. a shot fired from six floors up would have gone through his neck and out his back.

what am i missing here?

ellen fl

[Bolo Boffin]

58. What you're missing.

JFK was leaning forward in a limo driving down an incline. At that point in time the area of the back wound was higher than the throat wound, and a line drawn from the throat wound out the back wound at that point in time would have hit the sixth floor window.

http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/intro.htm

[ellenfl]

120. i didn't get that from the zapruder film. perhaps the book

depository window was far enough away for that but i don't see an incline or kennedy leaning forward enough to have a bullet go from mid-back to front neck and then down again to hit connolly. i guess i'm on the conspiracy side of this issue.

ellen fl

[fascisthunter]

116. right on cue

[merh]

4. IBTM.

:)

[Octafish]

13. Don't you think Democrats would be interested in hearing what an FBI eyewitness had to say?

Something else Democrats in general and DUers in particular and any American who believes in the rule of law would want to know is what was on the note from Lee Harvey Oswald to the FBI a few days before the assassination. The same day Oswald was dead, FBI agent James Hosty destroyed the note.

[merh]

22. Oh, I think it is interesting.

But, you know as well as I do, the thread will be moved as all such threads are moved to the dungeon.

[jberryhill]

80. Why? Nobody Gives A Shit What His Own Brother Ted Said...

And I believe Ted Kennedy was a Democrat.

But apparently most of his life was a lie lived under a threat.

[Ignis]

114. Democrats? Yes. DUers? Naaaah. (nt)

[noise]

27. There has been a successful effort to intimidate the public

Officials who failed to conduct an honest investigation are above criticism while the people who question the failure are considered out of line, possibly mentally ill and at the very least distracting from more important issues.

[merh]

29. You don't need to tell me this.

I'm just noting how the thread will be moved. That doesn't mean I agree with it.

You might want to go make noise to someone else, I mean you may want to go lecture another.

[noise]

32. No lecture

Just a comment on the successful effort to make citizens feel out of line for daring to question the JFK assassination.

[merh]

33. It was a lecture.

Nothing in my "IBTM" comes close to indicating that I approve of the move.

It merely recognizes the inevitable.

Perhaps you could send Skinner a pmail. Much unlike your post to me, that would be a reasonable course of action that might actually serve a purpose.

[noise]

35. And why do you think the thread may be moved? n/t

[merh]

37. All threads discussing the controversy surrounding the death of

JFK get moved.

[Octafish]

52. No, they don't. For example:

A fact curiously missing from American history and any mention of the Warren Commission

Know your BFEE: Poppy Bush was in Dallas the day JFK was assassinated.

Poppy Bush brought up JFK Assassination and "Conspiracy Theorists" at Ford Funeral

JFK Would NEVER Have Fallen for Phony INTEL!

A Short History of Conspiracy Theory

Eye rolling, etc. aside on the part of a few DUers, I agree with you in that there is a bit of an overreaction upon reading anything about the Kennedy assassinations. If news on the assassinations -- in the case of JFK, 46 years and it's still making news -- can't be in General Discussion, then there is a problem.

[merh]

56. Dude, it was a joke

I don't agree with the practice, I just commented on the practice.

Get over it.

If you want to discuss the article, discuss it and back off trying to prove something you cannot prove relative to the practice at DU.

[Bolo Boffin]

63. It is not news on the assassinations that can't be in DU.

It's conspiracy theories about the assassinations, Octafish. You know this.

[Sebastian Doyle]

122. And your definition of "conspiracy theory" is....

...any theory that you don't agree with.

[noise]

5. The evidence was fixed to mesh with a desired outcome

Sounds familiar huh? Anyone who rightly found such findings dishonest and absurd was labeled an unAmerican conspiracy nut.

Textbook authoritarianism. Textbook media propaganda.

The key point is that more than one shooter was not up for discussion. The magic bullet theory was nothing but a cynical scam on the public.

[tonysam]

7. Another silly thread to hide and unrec

We have always known the truth about the assassination; there was only one killer, Lee Harvey Oswald.

I can't stand this conspiracy cottage industry which has made piles of money off the Kennedys' grief.

[mcablue]

9. Is this veteran FBI agent out to make money?

Interesting. I'd love to know how much money he's made out of it, since he has never written a pro-conspiracy book or made money out of this. He is consistent in his recollections since day 1.

[Horse with no Name]

10. Why unrec if you are going to hide it?

And why bother even responding if you don't agree--the title was pretty explanatory of what would be here when you opened it--so why torture yourself?

[JackRiddler]

17. Why torture himself?

He's doing it out of his deep abiding love for the Kennedy family, of course.

[CatWoman]

12. "We have always known the truth about the assassination"

um, no we don't.....

[JackRiddler]

14. Yeah, the truth was pretty obvious from the moment a mobster killed the patsy live on TV.

In the police station!

Or maybe from the moment when the "independent commission" included Allen Dulles, the head of CIA fired by Kennedy, as its most active manager.

Quite a few details about the national security state's coup d'etat of November 1963 have since been filled in, of course.

The "conspiracy cottage industry" of course would include at least two of the Warren Commission's members who didn't believe in the magic bullet, Russell and Boggs, not to mention Nixon, Haldeman, Haig, and, after his deathbed confessions, Howard Hunt himself. Just as a beginning of the list.

But what the fuck would they know?

What the fuck would an FBI guy who was at the autopsy saying there was a wound below the shoulder blades know?

You know what I can't stand? Smug, know-nothing, authority-affirming sleepy heads who rhetorically refer to the victims' grief only as a magic totem to protect the lies, so that they, the sleepy heads, can claim they're feeling for the victims when all they're doing is keeping themsleves within their own comfort zone.

R.I.P. JFK and the former semblance of American democracy.

[CatWoman]

18. lol, Jack

:hi:

[jberryhill]

36. Ted Kennedy - liar, fool, or coward?

I guess Ted never cared about the truth, and even went so far as to actively promote the cover up in a book he knew would be published after his death.

Caroline, Patrick, RFK Jr. - incurious fools all, right?

[JackRiddler]

45. Hiding behind the Kennedys again?

Hm, citing a third party for what you say they didn't say as evidence against claims you don't address directly. Help me out, there's a name for this fallacy, but I've forgotten.

[jberryhill]

76. Did You Read True Compass?

He directly affirms the Warren Commission. How is his own book a "third party for what say he didn't"?

I'm talking about what Ted Kennedy himself said.

[DemBones DemBones]

51. Why would Ted Kennedy want to write anything that could

endanger his family after his death?

If I had two brothers who'd been murdered and didn't buy the official story about one or both murders, I sure as hell wouldn't put my family in danger by talking about it. Would you?

[laughingliberal]

60. Yes, I've always believed Jackie and Teddy had one goal...

to protect the family members still living.

[jberryhill]

74. So Caroline Is Living Under Blackmail?

[laughingliberal]

81. Caroline was 6

I doubt she knows much more than she was told. Save your condescension.

[jberryhill]

84. And How Old Were You?

Somehow a lot of people under the age of 50 today have this figured out.

Is she too stupid to know or care?

Or was Uncle Teddy just lying in his last wriiten words published this year?

[laughingliberal]

89. I am not under 50

And my family did not share with me the fact that we were on Nixon's enemies list until well after he left office. Kind of hard to hide from me that our car was bombed in our driveway but I am certain that, even today, I was never told everything. I stand by my statement that I believe Jackie and Teddy had, as their first priority, the protection of the living members of the family.

[Octafish]

91. Ted was there when John F. Kennedy, Jr. and his wife and her sister were pulled from the sea.

Those were heartbreaking days for him and those who love what this country is really about.

[jberryhill]

97. What this country is about - keeping silent in fear /nt

[Bolo Boffin]

98. So maybe that's why they pulled Chappaquidick out on him?

He was about to get mouthy? :shrug:

[jberryhill]

73. So he was a compromised coward who should not be trusted

The whole family is being controlled then, yes?

[laughingliberal]

83. Save your condescension

Have you lived under the threat of death? Have you ever been in a position for your entire family to be in danger? As for the whole family? I have no idea what the ones left might know. I know Jackie married a man many years older who had an island and practically his own army that could protect her and her children. Don't judge til you walk a mile...

[jberryhill]

88. Ted's Book Was Published After His Death

So why did he lie?

Obviously, since the family remains under a death threat that controls them, then none of them can be trusted. Who knows what else they are manipulated to do or to say.

[laughingliberal]

90. I don't believe everyone in the family knows and I think it is safer that way

and you are being contentious. You may disagree with my assessment all you want but I see no need for your tone.

[jberryhill]

94. Yes - thank God the Kennedys are dumber than you

It would be dangerous if they cared enough to read a bunch of books and educate themselves.

[laughingliberal]

99. Your tone is a little snarky and you are being, I believe, deliberately obtuse

about this. They probably have read books. If I were them and I wanted to live I might keep my opinions to myself. I have been in a family in political danger. I know I was never told everything. I have spent years being curious about the real story behind our situation but I do not open that can of worms. You don't agree? Fine. See how this could work? I can have my opinion and you can have yours. Mine isn't going to change and I doubt yours will either. I see nothing you can gain from being obnoxious unless you just enjoy that sort of thing.

[UpInArms]

42. great post - thank you!

:kick:

[CrawlingChaos]

44. Bravo JackRiddler - well said! (n/t)

[Junkdrawer]

47. Best post in the thead.

:applause:

[JackRiddler]

53. thanks and *blush*

[Bolo Boffin]

62. Clap, clap, clap.

Way to massage the CT comfort zone. Righteous indignation always brings a tear to my eye.

[JoeyT]

107. Mine too.

Can we do the moon landings next? Those are always fun.
Then we can go talk about how globes are a hoax because everyone knows the Earth is really flat.

Edited to add: I should've read the rest of the thread. Didn't notice the Truthers were already about.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

118. I knew someone who was a close friend of the Kennedy family

This is purely anecdotal and take it as you wish. I was attending the American College in Paris in 1968 and one of my friends was the son of French filmmaker Armand Jammot, also attending the same school. He was an aspiring documentary filmmaker and I considered him to be a very level-headed and honest person. We used to get together for a cup of coffee after class almost every day. His father Armand Jammot was an award-winning feature film producer and journalist. At the time, he had the most popular show on French television, Les Dossiers de L'ecran, where he interviewed such people as Elie Wiezel on his two-hour weekly show which covered a variety of news and societal stories. He was kind of considered the Mike Wallace of French TV. Jammot was a long-time friend of the Kennedys, especially Jacqueline.

In the latter part of 1968, there was a party thrown by the Kennedys in Paris to which they invited several close friends. Jacqueline Kennedy and her brother-in-law Sargent Shriver (U.S. ambassador to France) were in attendance. The son told me that he was there when his father took Jacky Kennedy aside and asked her point blank whether she thought Oswald was the lone gunman. She asked him not to go on the record about her thoughts and he agreed. She said that the family believed that Lyndon Johnson was involved in a cover up and had prior knowledge, although she didn't accuse him of being one of the conspirators. She said they were convinced that there was more to it than the lone gunman theory, that Johnson had a lot on his conscience, although she wouldn't go into details.

[dbt]

19. I can't stand this knee-jerk cottage industry which always says

Nothing to see here...move along. You know, the one that's made piles of money off keeping people from asking legitimate questions.

:hi:

[Bolo Boffin]

61. How much money have I made off what I've said and keep saying here?

Just curious, because this might put me in a higher tax bracket.

[FatDave]

68. Dude...

You think the skeptics are the ones making the money? They're the cottage industry? That's funny.

[spanone]

21. that's a very funny post. 'we have always known the truth...' really funny

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[dbt]

23. + 3.145789

:evilgrin:

[mcablue]

8. Arlen Specter, who would say anything to advance his career, devised the single bullet theory

Specter has turned into a clone of Dennis Kucinich, which is good; but it shows yo he will do things according to what could best advance his political career and profession.

[mcablue]

20. Oh stop. Ruby said he did it because he felt sad about Jackie Kennedy

Granted, Ruby and Jackie were never friends, but why would we doubt Ruby? We've seen numerous cases of gun-runners who make their way into police precincts' basements to kill people who killed women they felt sad about.

[ellie]

64. Hahahaha

That made me laugh. Such normal behavior for a gangster!

[Peace Patriot]

24. I recommend James Douglass' book, "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died And Why It Matters"

Published by the Maryknoll Fathers, last year. Really great book on who did it, how they did it, why they did, what it meant then, and what it means now.

:patriot:

[Octafish]

25. Here's where JFK's clothing marks the back wound bullet hole...

Jefferies' Film and the Bunching of JFK's Suit Coat

Thank you for a very important thread, mcablue.

PS: A most hearty welcome to DU!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. Why exactly is it impossible for the bullet to come out of a spot above the adams apple.

[cognoscere]

104. It's not impossible-bullets do all kinds of unusual

things after they hit something. But in this case it's highly improbable because...

JFK's death certificate states the back wound was in the area of the third thoracic vertebra. If you look at a skeleton, you'll notice that if he had been shot by someone standing directly behind him, so that the bullet was traveling horizontally, it would have exited in the upper sternum. However, the angle from the TSB to JFK at the assumed time of the second shot, was twenty degrees higher, giving the bullet a twenty degree downward track. Since the street was a three degree downslope, we subtract that and have a bullet track of seventeen degrees, which should exit, if my trigonometry is correct, roughly two inches lower than where it entered. Basically, the argument is: how could a bullet entering at a downward angle, exit higher than it hit?

I've been shooting for decades and have seen some weird stuff, but none of it violates the laws of physics. To deflect a bullet, you need to overcome some serious energy. Shoot at a feather, and very little deflection occurs. Shoot at a steel I-beam and you probably should duck. Generally, shooting at meat doesn't do much, unless the bullet is moving slowly and is kind of unstable. Did JFK's muscles make the bullet follow an upward path? Your guess is as good as mine.

JFK's wound was just below the Adam's apple, and for a while was thought to be an entrance wound because it was small, wasn't ragged, and it looked like an entrance wound. That is an important distinction because if you take a pencil and push it through a piece of paper, you'll find the paper gets punched outward as the pencil passes through it. It does that because of physics, specifically from energy being transferred from the pencil to the paper in various directions in the general direction of the thrust. (interestingly enough, the paper shreds do not go in the opposite direction of the pencil's travel.)Multiply that effect to account for the greater force of a round-nosed bullet passing through, and you have to wonder why a small, neat hole that looked like an entrance hole was later changed to an exit wound.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

112. I agree with you. It may be improbable, it's not impossible.

[peacetalksforall]

30. If this assassination had taken place today I don't think they would have gotten away

with their conspiratorial act with it's priority list of reasons.

[Politicalboi]

102. 9/11

We accept the fact our government failed that day, and that fire takes down steel and concrete buildings 10 stories a second. It could happen again today, and those again who question the governments story are the "nuts".

[DU GrovelBot]

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[FatDave]

34. I strongly urge anyone interested in this topic to watch this video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7184933155238761777#

"The Kennedy Assassination, Beyond Conspiracy"

Produced by the BBC. Uses CG modeling based on the Zapruder film to make a very compelling case for a single shooter from the 6th floor of the book depository.

The most important part comes at around 7:30.

You can play all the games you want with "was it Oswald?" or "who was Oswald working for?" but three shots (miss, Kennedy & Connally, Kennedy head-shot) from the book depository is pretty much cut & dried. Watch the video if you don't believe.

Then again, the BBC producers are probably in on the conspiracy, aren't they?

[noise]

38. What was the goal of the BBC producers?

Did they reexamine the evidence and come up with their own analysis or did they seek to demonstrate with CG modeling the truth of the Warren Commission findings?

[FatDave]

40. According to them, the former.

But of course that's exactly what they'd say, isn't it? Watch the video. It's worth your time.

[Holly_Hobby]

43. Supposed pics of shirt and jacket

[Taitertots]

46. What is not to be believed?

That a Marine could hit someone unprotected, slowly driving, with a scoped rifle, from a short distance. The depository is the perfect spot, the knoll would be a terrible spot. A bullet from the knoll wouldn't even explain the alleged inconsistency

That someone maybe associated with the government would murder him to prevent a show trial where the communist who insisted that he was a patsy would work the nation into a frenzy.

Oswald knew he would be there, knew when he would be there, had access to the spot, access to a rifle, marine marksmanship training, and outspoken motive.

[FatDave]

57. Wow, you say it like that and it sounds completely reasonable.

[cognoscere]

105. Of course it does...half the facts are missing.

Yes, Oswald was a Marine who was trained to shoot a rifle. But he wasn't very good at it and just barely got a good enough score to pass. Nobody has provided any evidence he practiced shooting or even fired his Italian rifle. Why is that important? I know a cop who is a sniper for his SWAT team. He has a $7000 custom made rifle/scope combo and shoots upwards of a hundred rounds a week. He could probably shoot the nuts off a fly at 100 yards. He didn't think he could do what Oswald was supposed to have done and he emphatically didn't think Oswald could have either. By the way, if Oswald was so good, why did he miss the first shot which was the easiest?

Yes, the limo was moving slowly, but even at eleven miles per hour, it was a moving target. In the roughly seventeen hundredths of a second it took for the bullet to get from the TSB to the limo, the car would have moved about four feet...doesn't sound like much, and for a horizontal shot it wouldn't be. But if you look at the Warren Commission reenactments, a four feet movement would put a shot from the TSB into the limo's trunk.

Yes, it was a scoped rifle. One the FBI couldn't even sight in until they put shims under it. IIRC it was hitting five inches high and two right. I know from personal experience that if either windage or elevation is off, and you know by how much, it's rather easy to compensate by aiming high or low, left or right. But when they both are off, and by that much and the target is moving, and you reasonably expect that the Secret Service will start throwing rounds at you...but I digress. Some have speculated that Oswald bumped the scope after the shooting. Yeah, the scope could take a couple of hundred pounds of recoil force okay, but then got knocked way out of alignment by bumping a cardboard box.

[FatDave]

119. Bullshit.

Oswald was an excellent shot. He was a Marine Corp sharpshooter. I've seen his score cards. He consistently scored 48 or 49 out of 50 possible points on 200 yard rapid-fire tests. The shot from the book depository to the limo was something around 80 yards. What you call "facts" are actually bullshit you saw in an Oliver Stone movie.

They found a fucking rifle, that he had been photographed with, with his fingerprints on it, in the building where he worked, on a stack of boxes right next to a window that the trajectory of the "magic bullet" and the head shot both point to. Oswald was the shooter. Period.

Now, was he working for Castro? It's not impossible. Some would even say likely. LBJ believed he was. But there is clear evidence that he was the only shooter. I don't know why you waste so much time fighting reality on a point that's barely even consequential in the scheme of the whole conspiracy. Why does there need to be a second shooter?

[lib2DaBone]

48. Just like burning jet fuel (kerosene) melted steel in the WTC..

And the collapse of WTC #7 was announced on british TV 20 minutes before it happened?

How is this possible?

.. facts are not important.

[lib2DaBone]

49. Just like burning jet fuel (kerosene) melted steel in the WTC..

And the collapse of WTC #7 was announced on british TV 20 minutes before it happened?

How is this possible?

.. facts are not important.

[Vidar]

50. K&R

[paparush]

65. 400+ people in Dealey Plaza. 289 interviewed by the Warren Commsion.

90 asked where they thought the shots came from? 58 say the grassy knoll. All 58 are dismissed on the grounds that their recollections are mistaken.

What's that smell?

[JackRiddler]

67. The smell comes from some of the very same people asking the questions.

[Octafish]

92. That pair brought in the stench of the Third Reich, Big Time.

A fact curiously missing from American history and any mention of the Warren Commission

[dflprincess]

75. See my post (#83 above)

According to Tip O'Neil the FBI even convinced Ken O'Donnell and Dave Powers what they thought they saw and heard with their own lying eyes and ears wasn't real and they should just repeat what the FBI told them.

[Hawkeye-X]

71. I caught Michael Baden's testimony on what killed JFK, and I agree with his assessment

He found 3 entry wounds (I think).

Secret Service took lousy autopsy pictures after kicking the autopsy photographer out.

[dflprincess]

82. Years ago when they finally let some forensic pathologists see all the autopsy records

one of the MEs allowed in was Joe (John?) Coe who was the ME for Hennepin County. If I recall correctly, he pretty much believed the Warren Commission but he was also quoted as being "shocked" by the president's autopsy and said a homeless person who froze to death in an alley in Minneapolis would get a more thorough one.

[Octafish]

85. The USN officer who filmed the autopsy was a homicide victim inside Bethesda Naval Hospital...

The Untimely Death of Lieutenant Commander William B. Pitzer

Navy said "suicide." Many who've looked into the case don't agree.

[FatDave]

72. A couple more videos

Clip part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13wfsdACktk
Clip part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZRUNYZY71g
Full length: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8673666872571189886#

Here's the one I posted earlier upthread, relinked here for convenience: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7184933155238761777#

Seriously, watch them if you don't believe in the single bullet. Let me hear you debunk these experiments.

[cognoscere]

106. I think you mean we should debunk those videos.

I once saw a video of Penn and Teller where they drove a semi over the little guy. Seriously, I have no way of knowing how they set up their experiment. I do know that the Warren Commission's own reenactment of frame 225 showed that, based on where the cross hairs were, the bullet would have hit Connally in the left arm, if at all. Looks like that bullet made the Z turn in mid-air after all.

[FatDave]

115. By all means, feel free to debunk them.

I want you to watch them, so watch them for the sake of the debunking.

Of course your mention of Penn and Teller implies trickery and deceitfulness on the part of the people who produced the videos, which could only mean (DUM DUM DUM!) they're part of the conspiracy!!!!!!!! Which of course is exactly how conspiracy theories work. Anybody who provides evidence to the contrary must be in on it.

Even though Oswald worked in the book depository, and coworkers said he brought a long package to work with him the morning of the 22nd (he said it was curtain rods) and they found the rifle he'd been photographed with in the sniper's nest, with his fingerprints on it, and that the entrance wound in Kennedy's head could not have been made from the grassy knoll but lined up perfectly with the depository window, and the "magic bullet" shot has been replicated and tested and shown to not only be possible but entirely likely, and the bullet found on the stretcher had markings that matched other bullets fired from the rifle found in the sniper's nest....

[NutmegYankee]

77. Ahhh Jeez, not this shit again!

[mcablue]

108. Want to know what's "shit"? The Warren Commission

That's what's "shit."

[NutmegYankee]

111. Need a napkin?

The foam on your mouth is dripping.

[Octafish]

113. A NAZI Napkin would do the trick for the steaming heap o' crapola the Warren Commission served up.

A fact curiously missing from American history and any mention of the Warren Commission

To most Americans, that's not more of the same old, same old, eh?

[harkadog]

121. I always find it funny that the same people who think the government

lies about most things -- real unemployment rates, objectives in the wars, the bailouts, etc. believe the government's cover up story on JFK.