Celebrities lead charge against Scientology; Hollywood figures quit 'rip-off' church

[Newsjock]

Source: The Observer (UK)

... Scientology, founded in 1953 by the late science fiction pulp novelist, serial fantasist and inveterate self-publicist L Ron Hubbard, is under fire again across the globe, following years of struggle to be recognised – with some success – as a legitimate church.

The church has just been denounced in the strongest possible terms in the Australian parliament. Prime minister Kevin Rudd has expressed his concern over allegations of "a worldwide pattern of abuse and criminality" and is contemplating a parliamentary inquiry. The organisation is under police investigation and yesterday angry ex-Scientologists, spurred on by the claims, converged on its Australian headquarters calling for its tax-exempt status to be revoked.

And it is not only in Australia that Scientology is facing problems. A new book in America – Blown for Good: Behind the Iron Curtain of the Church of Scientology – by Marc Headley, an employee of the church's Los Angeles headquarters for 15 years, details – as others have – allegations of systematic abuse and bizarre episodes, such as the three weeks Headley claims he spent under instruction from Cruise in how to move bottles and other objects by concentrating on them.

... At least some of the recent allegations will be familiar to Jason Beghe, the American actor. Last year he became the first of its celebrity followers – for whom the church maintains a "Celebrity Centre" – to break with it, after giving Scientology more than $1m in donations over 12 years.

... After a bad year for Cruise's church, things could be about to become a whole lot worse.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/22/scientology-cruise-haggis-us-australia

[cali]

1. It's a criminal racket. period. and yes, it's worse than mainstream churches.

[malaise]

7. They're all criminal rackets n/t

[cali]

8. no, actually, they're not all criminal rackets.

[BoneDaddy]

62. No they are not

and I do not consider myself a member of a church. But your comment is simply untrue.

[Taverner]

66. [phone]

Religion is always a racket - they are selling invisible products and getting a tax break in the process

[Odin2005]

9. All organized religions are criminal rackets.

Scientology, the RCC, what's the difference?

[MUAD_DIB]

24. Q: What is the difference between Scientology and Mormonism?

A: About a hundred years.

[Ignis]

73. ...

:spray:

[malaise]

46. Ditto n/t

[sudopod]

55. It's like the difference between a bank robber and Bernie Madoff.

They're both criminals, but yeah, there's a difference. :p

http://www.xenu.net

[SteelPenguin]

70. How are they criminal rackets?

I'm curious how you'd define something as a criminal racket, and how that definition would apply to all organized religions, including non-creedal ones?

[ZombieHorde]

10. How is the church of Scientology worse than the Roman Catholic Church? nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. How much has the Church of Scientology done...

in bringing food and providing medical treatment to people in severely deprived and impoverished areas of the world? In operating homeless shelters and soup kitchens in American inner cities? I think the Catholic Church wins this argument.

[ZombieHorde]

13. The Church of Scientology helps a lot people in "disaster areas" around the world.

They also run many free drug addiction clinics.

[Spider Jerusalem]

14. They run many free bullshit clinics.

The Scientology 'detox rundown' they prescribe as treatment doesn't work and can actually be harmful, considering they give vitamins in quantities that may cause liver damage.

As to 'helping people in disaster areas', they're doing it for the publicity, not because they care about helping anyone.

[ZombieHorde]

17. "they're doing it for the publicity, not because they care about helping anyone"

Could this not be said of the Catholic Church? Are they not trying to expand their numbers?

[Spider Jerusalem]

19. No, because Scientologists are looking fist and foremost to get good press and PR.

'Publicity' means 'media coverage'. And winning a few converts for auditing sessions, or getting them to sign billion-year Sea Org contracts, are a bonus, the Scientologists are always looking for fresh suckers to wring dry.

[ZombieHorde]

22. The RCC is just as nefarious. They one of the largest hate groups in the world.

RCC and LDS have molested more people, spread more hate, and have done more to lessen our civil rights than any other religion in the U.S.

Taking money from people is not nearly as bad as the hate the RCC has spread.

[Spider Jerusalem]

25. You ARE aware that Scientology supported Prop 8 in California?

And that it's Scientology doctrine that homosexuality is a 'disordered state'?

[ZombieHorde]

28. I have been claiming the churches are equally bad.

Obviously we can not measure units of badness, but they are both hate groups. Because of the RCC's size, the RCC does more good and more harm than the COS.

Even if the KKK donated the most to food banks, the KKK would still be a hate group and a bane to our society.

[roguevalley]

41. they get your deepest secrets in their stupid auditing sessions and

keep you on by the threat of blackmail. they are bastards.

[Bluenorthwest]

48. Other religions call that 'confession' but the reasons for it

are the same.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. Only real clergy are not allowed to repeat what they hear in confession

I know, because I grew up as a Lutheran preacher's kid.

My dad absolutely would not tell or use people's secrets. It would have been a severe violation of ethics.

[Odin2005]

32. The same can be said for the RCC.

They are out for converts, medicine comes second.

[juno jones]

36. Xenu.net

You might want to check into 'touch assist' or the narconon 'purification treatments'.

I hate the RCC's dogma, but I must admit that feeding and housing the poor is at least a concrete benefit that can be supported by statistics. Narconon has lousy follow-up statistics, pretty much the same as going cold turkey. It is against scientology's philosophy to give anything away for free. I won't get into the abuse of workers and immigration scams pulled by that 'church'. The only reason they give anything away is to try to get their hooks into the next rube.

www.xenu.net.

[sudopod]

56. They help by offering "counseling"

both in the disaster areas and to drug addicts. By counseling, I mean a sales pitch to buy "religious services."

It isn't charity by any stretch.

[snake in the grass]

44. By the same token,

how many people has Scientology burned at the stake or tortured to death? Although it wouldn't surprise me to hear of a few cases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_McPherson">Lisa McPherson) comes to mind, they still have a long way to go to catch up to the one true church. And yes, helping people in impoverished areas is a noble thing, but it's a shame they continue to place condoms higher in the evil hierarchy, than say disease or starvation. The good deeds do not outweigh the bad.

The RCC is just as much a racket as any other organized religion and all of them are inventions of the human mind. Zeus, Set, Xenu, Jesus, Cthulhu, Elvis? Who's to choose?

"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool."

- Voltaire

[sudopod]

59. No stakes, but they've boiled a few.

http://www.whyaretheydead.info/

Also, we can get these guys, they're doable. Good practice. :D

By we, I mean the internet, of course.

[Naturyl]

47. Don't expect much in those areas.

They consider most poor people to be "low on the tone scale" and Hubbard recommended quietly disposing of such people in a businesslike manner as the solution.

[marshall]

52. For that matter, the Mormon church is usually on the front lines of disaster assistance

I remember seeing a report after Katrina--a man was asked what groups had been delivering help to people in need. He said "The Mormons and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints"--not knowing that those terms apply to the same thing!

[LuvNewcastle]

2. So that's how Tom Cruise

did all those tricks in "Cocktail."

[hlthe2b]

3. The premise of Scientology is somthing I can not imagine

developing into a mainstream religion (and no, that is not a cue for religious antagonists to bring up the miraculous underpinnings of each of the major religions, nor to attach religion per se).... I think Cruise is a bit nutty anyway, but I've always sort of thought John Travolta and Kelly Preston to be far less so. It surprises me that they are such staunch followers of scientology, based on the beliefs of a science fiction writer....


People are free to believe what they want, but I do think governments should step in when there is systematic fraud and abuse. It certainly seems like that is the case--from what I've read and come to understand-- with scientology...

[paulsby]

42. i'm amazed that beck of all people

beck, the musician not glenn beck, is a scientologist.

regardless, he is imo one of the most inspired musicians alive today, and odelay is simply a fantastic album

he's a super creative guy.

[vadawg]

43. sorry dude, im afraid you need to go back on light duties if you think that of beck :)

never could get into his stuff myself......

[Kievan Rus]

4. I was just standing here...Tom Cruise locked himself in the closet!

The best South Park episode ever!

[Initech]

5. Scientology isn't a church - it's a dangerous brainwashing cult.

[lame54]

68. I thought you said it wasn't a church

[snagglepuss]

6. It took Paul Haggis 30 YEARS to figure out Scientology is criminal?

How can someone like him be deluded for so long? It puts him on level of wacko Palin supporters.

[ZombieHorde]

11. The church of Scientology is no worse than

the Roman Catholic Church or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons).

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. No, it's much worse than either.

Neither of the others is looking to fuck their believers out of as much money as they can get. (Finding out the nonsense story about Xenu and the H-bombs costs $300K worth of auditing.)

[ZombieHorde]

20. How much harm has been caused by the RCC's stance on abortion,

contraceptives, and gays? The RCC would be better if it were only trying to take everyone's money.

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. And yet the Catholic Church is still responsible for more charitable work than any other.

While Scientology...isn't. At all. There's no comparison. Are YOU a Scientologist, by the way?

[ZombieHorde]

23. This debate is not about me. nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

27. It would explain why you're defending $cientology.

Which is why I'm curious.

[ZombieHorde]

29. I am not defending Scientology. nt

[ldf]

26. are you a catholic?

in my opinion being called either is an absolute insult.

the catholic church, and its holdings, are worth HOW MUCH? they could do a lot of good for a lot of people...

so don't accuse the scientologists of being all about money, and give the RC a pass.

and i am an atheist.

they are ALL an "abomination".

[Spider Jerusalem]

30. Not a Catholic. I'm agnostic.

But rational enough to see that arguing that the Catholic Church does less good than Scientology is laughable. I disagree with the Catholic Church's positions on many issues, but that doesn't mean I can't recognise that they ARE responsible for positive things when it comes to feeding the poor, treating the sick, etc.

[ZombieHorde]

31. I am not arguing "the Catholic Church does less good than Scientology." nt

[dflprincess]

35. Except the Catholic chuch has said if D.C. makes same sex marriage legal

in the spirit of Christian charity it will withdraw all its support from charities in the D.C. diocese.

As Stephen Colbert said on his show regarding this:

"Jesus said, "If you wish to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor ... unless a couple of dudes register at the Pottery Barn, in which case fuck the poor"

(p.s. I'm a lapsed Catholic, if that matters.)

[Skittles]

38. you don't need church to do charitable work

[denem]

16. I hate religion - that's all you needed to say

Fuck Scientology = Religion

That the scam they trade on.

[ZombieHorde]

18. I don't hate religion. nt

[sudopod]

60. So?

Should we do nothing if we can't do everything?

We can't easily quash the Mormons or the RCC, but the scilons, well, that's a different story.

[ZombieHorde]

61. "Should we do nothing if we can't do everything?"

I don't think we are going to do anything other than post messages.

"We can't easily quash the Mormons or the RCC,"

Especially when members of our own group join and advocate for these hate groups.

"but the scilons, well, that's a different story.

Do you think celebrities advocating against Scientology is enough to quash them? If so, I hope your right.

[sudopod]

63. In 2099 AD, war was beginning

whyweprotest.net

The internet is the reason they're having such a problem. They've already induced a schism and may soon get them kicked out of Australia.

I lol'd.

[ZombieHorde]

64. From the link, whyweprotest.net,

Why is the church dangerous?

The Church of Scientology, while claiming to be a religion and functioning as such, behaves strikingly like a business and cult.

Businesses are neither good nor bad, so let's focus on the "cult" claim, which I am sure is true. The RCC is openly bigoted against gay people and a fierce advocate against abortion, yet many of its liberal members will still defend the RCC and attack those who point out the RCC is a hate group. This defiance of logic is a red flag for cult like behavior.


The “fair game” policy, for example, is responsible for the harassment of numerous scientology critics over the years. As L. Ron Hubbard said, concerning suppressive peoples (those who are not in support of scientology):

“The homes, property, places and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to: suppress Scientology or Scientologists are all beyond any protection of Scientology Ethics, unless absolved by later Ethics or an amnesty ... this Policy Letter extends to suppressive non-Scientology wives and husbands and parents, or other family members or hostile groups or even close friends.”

The RCC has an informal "fair game" policy on children's genitals. Priests who are caught raping little children are simply reassigned, the parents are bought off to keep them quite. The RCC is more concerned about their image than they are about kids getting raped.

While this is bad enough in itself, Scientology has also been implicated in numerous fatalities among its members, including the famous case of Lisa McPherson, whose tragic death is remembered at her website (http://www.lisamcpherson.org/).

We all know the RCC's violent history, which is much more horrific than any accusation against the Scientologists.

There have been numerous recorded cases of litigation against people who had attempted to paint the church in a manner that they did not specifically endorse, including Scientology’s attempts at silencing a Time magazine article that referred to them as a greedy and dangerous cult.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-353269.html">Roman Catholic Church Shifts Legal Strategy; Aggressive Litigation Replaces Quiet Settlements

"Eighteen months ago, she sued the Roman Catholic Church of Hawaii after a parish sacristan who trained her son as an altar boy pleaded guilty to molesting him. Assuming the church would settle before the case went to trial, the 41-year-old single mother was shocked last month when the diocese charged in a countersuit that it was she who was negligent for allowing her boys, then 7 and 10, to sleep over at the sacristan's apartment."

This lawsuit by the RCC is much worse than the lawsuits attributed to the Scientologists.

There is little doubt in my mind the Church of Scientology is messed up and causes harm, but the RCC is just as messed up and also causes harm.

[sudopod]

69. Uh, ok.

The RCC sucks. So what's your point? I'm pretty sure you're trying to argue about something, but I have no idea what it is.

[ZombieHorde]

71. I mentioned the RCC was just as bad as Scientology, people commented, such as your link,

I commented back. I call this back and forth "a discussion." Some people enjoy discussions, some don't.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[bridgit]

34. Hubbard's lackluster SciFi efforts were being rolled by the Bradbury', Lem', Azimov'...

Clarke', etc, even the Herbert' and Dick' of the world; by the space program itself! - and that is daunting for writers, even so-called writers. So he took a look around. Searching for the key that unlocks that box and he found: http://psycho-cybernetics.com/blog">Psycho-Cybernetics, where, apparently, quite nearly everyone is either sitting, standing, or floating in space

Psycho-Cybernetics wasn't always thus. It wasn't always seminars filled with 'success advocates' stratifying the emotions in the room into the "deserving" and "less deserving" hocking books to all: CD's and DVD's convincing already genius people that they'd be greater-like higher IQ alien geniuses if they'd only submit to the will of the tribe of Scientology...and tithe richly from within, acquiesce, abide, obey

While simple; Psycho-Cybernetics was a little self help regimen where one could stiff-upper-lip their way into their heads and up to the painful parts of their lives where with some work one could tag, bag, pigeon hole and set those disruptive negativities off to the side where they're less able to obstruct the occurrence of success and *thus* enhance one's fulfillment and happiness oh I'm sorry did I say "self help" - cause we can't have that

We can't be seen helping ourselves, sorting our own problems out certainly not in front of some guy that can't get his SciFi onto a 'C' movie lot dad gummit!!

We need L. Ron Hubbard's SciFi Cult Snake Oil, Scientology & BBQ Sauce!

[juno jones]

37. www.xenu.net

www.xenu.net

Tells it all really.

if you really want to know why scientology is a shitty deal.

[spoony]

39. Annnnnnnnnd another thread becomes a strained tangential indictment

of Christianity. Lol.

[woo me with science]

49. +100

I hope you have that saved in your browser so you only need to cut and paste next time. :rofl:

[ZombieHorde]

51. Not Christianity, the RCC and the Mormon church.

Hate groups deserve criticism.

[Posteritatis]

54. This place really fails the Turing test on some issues, doesn't it? (nt)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

58. That's a good way to put it!

:rofl:

[ZombieHorde]

65. Ad Hominem attacks are logical fallacies and logical fallacies are opposed

to critical thinking. If you feel an argument is false, then demonstrate why you believe the argument is false.

[K8-EEE]

40. GOD IT'S ABOUT TIME!!

My daughter when to school by that "Celebrity Centre" in Hollywood holy cow they have these people all dressed up in military gear "Sea Org" or something they are total zombies and they send them off on missions and stuff, you hear all about the ones who never come back and the Scientologists just claim they must have decided to live abroad or whatever -- you can get away with whatever in this country as long as you say you're a "church!"

[conscious evolution]

45. 'Religions founded because of a bet

are not religions.
How people can fall for scientology when the founder admits to having formed it because of a freindly wager with a friend is beyond me.
More proof of P T Barnums adage "there's a sucker born..."

[woo me with science]

50. Beghe and Haggis?

These are celebrities?

Geez, I was hoping Travolta and Cruise finally came to their senses.

[Kaleva]

53. How about the star of "My name is Earl"?

[TwilightGardener]

72. Some of my favorite TV characters are scientologists--Jason Lee, Leah Remini, the guy

who played Francis on "Malcolm in the Middle"--kind of ruins the shows for me, when I know they're all nutty in real life.

[L0oniX]

67. Scientology advertises on SYFY channel ...ironic isn't it.